Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Matt, An addition to ESO that could be fun, include exploration and world PvP without affecting the

24

Comments

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    Hi, I dont like your game, can you redo a lot of it because I'd like it more that way? ;-)

     

    I swear, I'm worried about this community. People are more concerned with what they personally want out of it, than what would be good for the game overall.

    This is one of the major reasons why modern MMOs fail.  Developers want to please everyone, but trying to do that makes noone happy.  If you go through past games and read the before and after threads (like TSW and GW2), it's funny how they're totally opposite of each other.

    Before release:

    "We want an open world that has no quests, let us players do whatever we want without restrictions"

    After release:

    "This game is empty, there's no NPCs to tell me what to do, and people keep killing me over and over! I quit!!!"

    Except what I'm asking for doesn't require them to sacrifice anything to try and please.  They still have the official game, NOTHING has changed.

    You mean outside of the additional cost of maintaining support for a new ruleset right? And no, just because prior games have done it does not mean it does not cost.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Except what I'm asking for doesn't require them to sacrifice anything to try and please.  They still have the official game, NOTHING has changed.

    You mean outside of the additional cost of maintaining support for a new ruleset right? And no, just because prior games have done it does not mean it does not cost.

    It's a mega-server, there would be no support to it ~ take out NPCs, allow players to flag for FFA, Faction PvP or Non-combat.   With the amount of people asking for exploration freedom and world PvP, I think it would be worth it, imo.

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Just let player flag as neutral so they wont ever have to join any pvp fight or realm battles and freely can explore all the world and do all the quests they wish,very simple.
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Just let player flag as neutral so they wont ever have to join any pvp fight or realm battles and freely can explore all the world and do all the quests they wish,very simple.

    I like this idea and wouldn't be opposed to it but many FvFvF fans do not want people just running around like that.  I figured if we could make a seperate instance then people can freely explore without bothering the more dedicated FvFvF players.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,004Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Originally posted by Tuktz

     

    Except what I'm asking for doesn't require them to sacrifice anything to try and please.  They still have the official game, NOTHING has changed.

    Actually, it does, and here's why.

    First, I'm going to guess that the "simple" changes you propose will involve much more development than you think, especially since there are likely to be interdependent game mechanics that have to be modified that aren't readily apparent.

    Second, maintaining multiple code bases is a challenge, and the more options you offer, the more difficult it is to keep everything in sync and working well.  Each new feature or code that goes in to the game now has to be weighed against the separate designs to ensure there are no unintended consequences, and if necessary, make separate versions of each feature to check in independently.  (Would love for Mark to weigh in on how difficult or easy it was for the DAOC team to keep the RVR, FFA PVP, and Open World variants all running at the same time.)

    Third, and this is the most important.  I've been developing software systems for over 25 years, and one thing is universal, the end state system contains many more features than can be delivered in a reasonable period of time.  So what teams do is pick a target (or core) set of features and set out to build a first release. 

    There normally is a lot more content the Dev's (or users) want in the software, and a plan gets in place to deliver it, frequently over a period of 2 or 3 years to completion. 

    Remember, development resources are finite, there's only so many to go around they normally are far too few to deliver the entire content in anything under a multi-year schedule.  (it's not even practical to try to deliver too much content all at once and too rapidly, many a project has crashed and burned with that approach)

    So every time the developers are asked to deliver a variant such as you propose, you are diverting resources from core game design to accomodate the alternate plan.  Now, this can be a good idea if the alternate is likely to bring in additional revenue or benefit to justify the cost/diversion. 

    And that's the rub, it will be very hard to show that changes such as you have put forth will bring in significant income to justify deviating from the master plan, which in theory should be the one that will provide the most profitable.

    I suspect that the number of TES fans that won't play this title because of some missing design feature is pretty small, odds are those folks were rabid fans of single player games and not really MMORPG fans who are more likely to keep playing and paying TESO, which is the real core audiance of the developers.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Just let player flag as neutral so they wont ever have to join any pvp fight or realm battles and freely can explore all the world and do all the quests they wish,very simple.

    I like this idea and wouldn't be opposed to it but many FvFvF fans do not want people just running around like that.  I figured if we could make a seperate instance then people can freely explore without bothering the more dedicated FvFvF players.

     Well I will not even considder installing this game on my computer without a possibilitiy to do this.

  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 874Member Uncommon
    Or instead of having some weird ass server with no npcs that devs would never do anyways, you could just make a character of each faction and explore all areas then... sounds easier to me image

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Just let player flag as neutral so they wont ever have to join any pvp fight or realm battles and freely can explore all the world and do all the quests they wish,very simple.

    I like this idea and wouldn't be opposed to it but many FvFvF fans do not want people just running around like that.  I figured if we could make a seperate instance then people can freely explore without bothering the more dedicated FvFvF players.

     Well I will not even considder installing this game on my computer without a possibilitiy to do this.

    Then do not play it? I can understand fanboys jizzing themselves over a new release, but seriously not every incarnation has to be aimed at you. Final Fantasy tactics was a great game for example, yet is very different from the rest of the cannon. Eso actually interested me enough to buy Skyrim, and near 400 mods later its playable, does that make the vanilla game poor?

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    Hi, I dont like your game, can you redo a lot of it because I'd like it more that way? ;-)

    I'd like it loads better if you made it just exactly like a game I played 10 or more years ago. But man I hate Clones.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Actually, it does, and here's why.

    First, I'm going to guess that the "simple" changes you propose will involve much more development than you think, especially since there are likely to be interdependent game mechanics that have to be modified that aren't readily apparent.

    I am willing to accept that.  I do not fully understand the time and development it would take to do this but it's a fairly simple solution, sounds do-able and it can increase fan appeal.  It does not effect the official game but only adds an additional way to play their game.

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Second, maintaining multiple code bases is a challenge, and the more options you offer, the more difficult it is to keep everything in sync and working well.  Each new feature or code that goes in to the game now has to be weighed against the separate designs to ensure there are no unintended consequences, and if necessary, make separate versions of each feature to check in independently.  (Would love for Mark to weigh in on how difficult or easy it was for the DAOC team to keep the RVR, FFA PVP, and Open World variants all running at the same time.)

    I'm not sure but I think this falls in the first catagory.  Not sure why you need two paragraphs saying the same thing; the 'simple changes' as stated in the first paragraph would include the code, sync and maintaining the versions.

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Third, and this is the most important.  I've been developing software systems for over 25 years, and one thing is universal, the end state system contains many more features than can be delivered in a reasonable period of time.  So what teams do is pick a target (or core) set of features and set out to build a first release. 

    I've been designing systems for for about 15 years and the one thing is universal, you start with an idea and then multiple people improve upon the crazy notion.  I'm not saying you have to rapport with me but the concept is simple if you read it ~ you either like it or you don't.  There's no need to start slinging credentials over something that may be a little different than you're used to.

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    There normally is a lot more content the Dev's (or users) want in the software, and a plan gets in place to deliver it, frequently over a period of 2 or 3 years to completion.

    I agree, I don't want to intrude on Matt's planned direction for this game.

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Remember, development resources are finite, there's only so many to go around they normally are far too few to deliver the entire content in anything under a multi-year schedule.  (it's not even practical to try to deliver too much content all at once and too rapidly, many a project has crashed and burned with that approach)

    So every time the developers are asked to deliver a variant such as you propose, you are diverting resources from core game design to accomodate the alternate plan.  Now, this can be a good idea if the alternate is likely to bring in additional revenue or benefit to justify the cost/diversion. 

    And that's the rub, it will be very hard to show that changes such as you have put forth will bring in significant income to justify deviating from the master plan, which in theory should be the one that will provide the most profitable.

    I suspect that the number of TES fans that won't play this title because of some missing design feature is pretty small, odds are those folks were rabid fans of single player games and not really MMORPG fans who are more likely to keep playing and paying TESO, which is the real core audiance of the developers.

    These last few paragraphs are basically saying the same thing but reworded.  I already agreed that I don't want to disrupt their current progress.  I am not suggesting that they put a lot of time into this starting out, but if many people are playing this mode then it would be a good idea to reconsider the future?

    You can't please everyone but you want to maximize the ways people can experience your game.  IF there is enough people who want to explore in your game, wouldn't it be wise to make a way for them to explore? ~ without taking away too much for the core design (ESO's current direction).

  • GrunchGrunch yuma, AZPosts: 493Member

    Worst idea ever. I don't think the "stare at walls" crowd is large enough for them to focus development changes on. Lol

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    If you truly want too help then actually help with things that make sence with a game already 5 years in development.

    You don't really think they will rebuild the whole game now do you?

    Oh and your idea....GREAT on paper/text, but I don't think even though it's quite some text that you really have thought about your idea in a developed game environment and what your idea means to the overall quality and quantity of the game.

  • jayheld90jayheld90 Canal Winchester, OHPosts: 1,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    A trademark of TES games is that the PC gamers get to change the content and experience it their way.  Why not provide players with different ways to experience your game?

     

    Give Players Options

    If there are enough people who want to walk around in someone else's territory, then put them together in that territory. Heck make a server with no NPCs whatsoever, populated totally by players.  You could throw some NPC mini-world-bosses around; bears, wolves, town guards (*), and various other non-faction enemies.  Then allow players to flag for Free For All, Faction PvP, or Non-Combat and group with anyone (a group flagged for FFA wouldn't be able to attack each other).

     

    NPCless World

    The war, the setting, nothing matters ~ we create our own world.  Players can walk around in different cities or even in Cyrodiil and explore in/out of combat.  (*) Town Guards would be a small group of guards any player, with any faction, can attack.  More guards will not come and they will not attack unless attacked.  At any time players could switch back to the official game with a persistant character.

     

    Starting Point

    The good news is that you really don't have to do much work.  Just take out all the NPCs and put players in!  If a lot of people are playing this way, then add more content - like the mini-world-bosses or attackable town guards

     

    Enough Room For Everyone

    I don't want to dilute your game nor do I want to split up the population BUT there is going to be a lot of people playing.   Some people just want to pick a race and run around in an Elder Scrolls World ~ and what better way to make it online than to put them together with other players who want the same thing.  I respect that some players want to adhere to the war setting but the NPCless world will be more of a playground.  This way no one is FORCED to play one particular way.

     

    To Ends

    I respect that there are many who are excited for this game and I don't want to hate anymore.  It would be easy to play off the general TES theme of "play how you want to play" and please multiple players.  DAoC players are custom to the idea of having servers with different rulesets (such as co-op, wpvp, etc).   Do the same thing but with two options; official and explorer, and allow players to switch between them with a persistant character.

    this is the worst thing i have ever heard for a game.

    image

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Vidir
    Just let player flag as neutral so they wont ever have to join any pvp fight or realm battles and freely can explore all the world and do all the quests they wish,very simple.

    I like this idea and wouldn't be opposed to it but many FvFvF fans do not want people just running around like that.  I figured if we could make a seperate instance then people can freely explore without bothering the more dedicated FvFvF players.

     Well I will not even considder installing this game on my computer without a possibilitiy to do this.

    Then do not play it? I can understand fanboys jizzing themselves over a new release, but seriously not every incarnation has to be aimed at you. Final Fantasy tactics was a great game for example, yet is very different from the rest of the cannon. Eso actually interested me enough to buy Skyrim, and near 400 mods later its playable, does that make the vanilla game poor?

     Mate I dont care att all how they make this game work, only thing I did comment is that I wont considder playing it whit the current forced pvp. Guess it will be just another pvp game with very few people playing it.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common

    You guys must not understand how a critique works, saying "worst idea ever" means nothing to me.  I challenge the above responders to answer these questions;

    • Why do you think it's the worst idea ever?
    • What  would you change to make it better?
    • Do you feel that ESO is currently appeasing the TES fans, MMO players and FvFvF fans?

    So far I can't tell if it's people piggybacking each other or if there are serious flaws with my suggestion.  Like my idea or not the blade cuts both ways, they are not making this game only for FvFvF fans but for TES and MMO players as well.

    This isn't personal to me, I wouldn't design this game the way Matt did to begin with, I'm just trying to come up with a suggestion to appease multiple people without effect the core game.  If you don't like the idea, you don't have to play it.  I suggest that it takes very little developer time and be more of a 'playground' type thing in which players could interact with each outside the games projected regulations.

    I would prefer to alter this suggestion so everyone loves it ~ the idea is up to debate.  If there is something you don't like tell me and we'll see if we can find a solution.  The fool thing would be to think there are no solutions without at least keeping an open mind.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Grunch

    Worst idea ever. I don't think the "stare at walls" crowd is large enough for them to focus development changes on. Lol

    Yes but it doesn't focus on the "stare at walls" crowd but the TES explorers (although some content to explore would be nice - such as the mini-world-bosses players could group for), world PvPers (I know they want everyone to be flagged for PvP but  I think it's important that there is a choice), and Cyrodiil groups who want to practice and learn the landscape for the official campaigns.

     

    Originally posted by Reklaw

    If you truly want too help then actually help with things that make sence with a game already 5 years in development.

    You don't really think they will rebuild the whole game now do you?

    Oh and your idea....GREAT on paper/text, but I don't think even though it's quite some text that you really have thought about your idea in a developed game environment and what your idea means to the overall quality and quantity of the game.

    It makes sense to me, if it doesn't to you let me know.  I spout out ideas too quickly and I'm not working with a team of developers here ~ this is a major handicap for any designer.

    If you read what I posted then you would know that I'm not asking them to 'rebuild the whole game'.

    I would totally agree, things that look good on paper doesn't mean they would work out in real life.  I've been playing around with varities of this idea for about a month now but it still is rather underdeveloped.  I could see a professional designer saying that in it's current form, my suggestion does not take into account the overall quality of the game.  Players may feel the designers lost confidence in their product if they did something like this incorrectly.

  • Tindale111Tindale111 croydonPosts: 197Member
    why dont we wait to see what the game is actually like to play before we tell them how to improve or ruin it ? you start of by saying i dont like your game and i want to help if thats the case before its even released dont play it and dont try to fix something thats not broke yet
  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Would much rather see a normal FFA PVP server than.. whatever the hell your idea is.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,004Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen

    You guys must not understand how a critique works, saying "worst idea ever" means nothing to me.  I challenge the above responders to answer these questions;

    • Why do you think it's the worst idea ever?  It's not, but its not the best either, and for purely finanical reasons developers focus their development efforts on what will likely bring in the most money with the least effort.
    • What  would you change to make it better? I'd add FFA PVP to the open world idea you and others have proposed, I don't care if you come in my realm, but I'd better be able to attack you at my pleasure, not yours.
    • Do you feel that ESO is currently appeasing the TES fans, MMO players and FvFvF fans? No game can appease all fan groups, they need to focus on their core and try to do it well, and in this case it appears they are making a FvFvF focused MMORPG with some ties to the TES IP and gameplay mechanics. (less emphasis on this last one)

    So far I can't tell if it's tools piggybacking each other or if there are serious flaws with my suggestion.  Like my idea or not the blade cuts both ways, they are not making this game only for FvFvF fans but for TES and MMO players as well.  Your flaws are finanical , the Devs must not feel it is finanically sensible to implement your suggestions or they'd do it.

    This isn't personal to me, I wouldn't design this game the way Matt did to begin with, I'm just trying to come up with a suggestion to appease multiple people without effect the core game.  If you don't like the idea, you don't have to play it and other than a little bit of resources they could add this option and give it to people who may like something like this.  You still are blowing smoke when you say "a little bit of resources", how do you know this, do you design/deliver games (or any software) for a living? 

    I would prefer to alter this suggestion so everyone loves it ~ the idea is up to debate.  If there is something you don't like tell me and we'll see if we can find a solution.  The fool thing would be to think there are no solutions without at least trying with an open mind. - You will never create an idea that everyone loves, there will always be some who agree with you, and many who don't.  The fool thing in this case is to believe otherwise.

    But of course, your ideas are always open for debate, this is MMORPG.com that all. image

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • rnor6084rnor6084 brunswick, GAPosts: 109Member

    So you've actually played the game or are you just basing your opinion on what has been written about the game? Makes absolutely no sense to me when someone who has not played a game can form such a strong opinion.  

     

    Why should the devs try to cater to your ilk? If you "hate" the game now without ever have played it you will never like it.

  • KhurgKhurg Philadelphia, PAPosts: 47Member
    OP there is a reason you don't design games. The singularly most stupid ideas in the history of MMO
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by sapphen

    You guys must not understand how a critique works, saying "worst idea ever" means nothing to me.  I challenge the above responders to answer these questions;

    • Why do you think it's the worst idea ever?  It's not, but its not the best either, and for purely finanical reasons developers focus their development efforts on what will likely bring in the most money with the least effort.
    • What  would you change to make it better? I'd add FFA PVP to the open world idea you and others have proposed, I don't care if you come in my realm, but I'd better be able to attack you at my pleasure, not yours.
    • Do you feel that ESO is currently appeasing the TES fans, MMO players and FvFvF fans? No game can appease all fan groups, they need to focus on their core and try to do it well, and in this case it appears they are making a FvFvF focused MMORPG with some ties to the TES IP and gameplay mechanics. (less emphasis on this last one)

    So far I can't tell if it's tools piggybacking each other or if there are serious flaws with my suggestion.  Like my idea or not the blade cuts both ways, they are not making this game only for FvFvF fans but for TES and MMO players as well.  Your flaws are finanical , the Devs must not feel it is finanically sensible to implement your suggestions or they'd do it.

    This isn't personal to me, I wouldn't design this game the way Matt did to begin with, I'm just trying to come up with a suggestion to appease multiple people without effect the core game.  If you don't like the idea, you don't have to play it and other than a little bit of resources they could add this option and give it to people who may like something like this.  You still are blowing smoke when you say "a little bit of resources", how do you know this, do you design/deliver games (or any software) for a living? 

    I would prefer to alter this suggestion so everyone loves it ~ the idea is up to debate.  If there is something you don't like tell me and we'll see if we can find a solution.  The fool thing would be to think there are no solutions without at least trying with an open mind. - You will never create an idea that everyone loves, there will always be some who agree with you, and many who don't.  The fool thing in this case is to believe otherwise.

    But of course, your ideas are always open for debate, this is MMORPG.com that all. image

    I would agree that in order for this idea to work it would have to be rather simple to add in.

    Right now I think their core fans are FvFvF.  Unfortantly I think times has changed since DAoC and I also believe that it's legend may be larger than life.  It may be near impossible to recreate what everyone loved from DAoC in this age.  Back then ALL MMOs was a niche market ~ I feel players had a closer bond to their friends and enemies back then that we just don't have today.

    I would understand if it is not finanically sensible to apply my idea.  I'm not sure if people are reading it or if it's the forum tone but people are not taking to it well.  I understand after all the heated debates on here we tend to clump everyone into two catagories, ESO fans and ESO haters.  We all have to look at this from a larger picture.

    I don't want to say I'm blowing smoke, I don't know for sure how much resources it would take but at least it does sound feasible.  I'm trying to think of the simplist way to do this (I believe it would be to remove all NPCs, bump players to the same level - like they are doing in Cyrodiil - and let them roam around together).  Random world PvP should be encouraged but not forced.

    I do not think this could be an idea everyone loves, I didn't mean to give that impression. I would just 'prefer' everyone loves it.  By stating this I'm telling you that this idea isn't for me.  I am trying to design for the community who wants to explore, wPvP or TES fans who doesn't like the original theme.

    If more people are playing this mode than the official verison then it's still a win/win for both sides.  They could add features (and NPCs) to the NPCless world AND STILL give players of the official game new content.  As developers we design where the money is despite our personal preferences (and I'm not talking about selling out either).

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by rnor6084

    So you've actually played the game or are you just basing your opinion on what has been written about the game? Makes absolutely no sense to me when someone who has not played a game can form such a strong opinion.  

    Why should the devs try to cater to your ilk? If you "hate" the game now without ever have played it you will never like it.

    What are you even talking about?  I don't have an opinion, this is a suggestion, have you read it or just going along with everyone else?

     

    Originally posted by Khurg
    OP there is a reason you don't design games. The singularly most stupid ideas in the history of MMO

    What makes it stupid?  As it stands now, even the developers current direction could end up being one of the most stupid ideas in MMO history.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Tindale111
    why dont we wait to see what the game is actually like to play before we tell them how to improve or ruin it ? you start of by saying i dont like your game and i want to help if thats the case before its even released dont play it and dont try to fix something thats not broke yet

    So I can't comment on the game without playing it but you can comment on my post without reading it....

    Originally posted by redcapp
    Would much rather see a normal FFA PVP server than.. whatever the hell your idea is.

    I would also like to see a normal wPvP server.  My idea is in english if you want to read it.  I tried to keep it simple enough to understand but feel free to ask any questions.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common

    One of the reasons why I made this thread is because I feel bad about some of my judgements on this game.  While I can't help how I feel, I think it's pretty cowardly to critique someone's idea without posting suggestions to fix what I didn't like.  I probably deserve some of the comments here but it doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of the community is not liking ESO's current direction.

    This game is not being made for only FvFvF fans but for TES and MMO players.

Sign In or Register to comment.