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Collision Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No?

KuldebarKuldebar Tacoma, WAPosts: 66Member

Collison Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No

 

There's quite a heated debate going on over at the CU subreddit over whether CD should be in the game.

 

 

I personally feel that it's all but required, if not mandatory to have in a game that involves defending positions and protecting your support classes and seige. I feel that choke points are an essential strategic part of the game and not having CD would make such a thing meaningless.

The arguments against CD are complaints about getting "trapped" or having a handful of warriors hold off a horde of players. Additional concern was being blocked from joining in on a fight becuase there were too many players. Another concern was about possible game performance issues CD might cause.

So, what do the nice folks of mmorpg.com think about collision detection in the Camelot Unchained Project?

 

MMORPG.com Poll on the subject.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

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Comments

  • grimjakkgrimjakk Tumwater, WAPosts: 192Member
    Gotta be, IMO.   /sticking to the MainAssist and chasing down targets as a writhing, windmilling shoggoth of bladed limbs...  is just SO last decade.  ;)
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuldebar

    Collison Detection in Camelot Unchained: Yes or No

     

    There's quite a heated debate going on over at the CU subreddit over whether CD should be in the game.

     

     

    I personally feel that it's all but required, if not mandatory to have in a game that involves defending positions and protecting your support classes and seige. I feel that choke points are an essential strategic part of the game and not having CD would make such a thing meaningless.

    The arguments against CD are complaints about getting "trapped" or having a handful of warriors hold off a horde of players. Additional concern was being blocked from joining in on a fight becuase there were too many players. Another concern was about possible game performance issues CD might cause.

    So, what do the nice folks of mmorpg.com think about collision detection in the Camelot Unchained Project?

    Its definitely needed, especially in a game which has its entire focus on PvP. Lack of collision detection removes exactly those things which you brought up in the examples you gave for the arguments against it. No collision detection means a smaller force cant make use of strategic choke points and good tactical teamwork to hold off a much larger force. A game like this should not be completely about who has more people, and should allow for people to take advantage of the ability to do things like form walls of bodies to prevent the enemy from pushing into an area unhindered and focusing their firepower on them at chokepoints.

  • KuldebarKuldebar Tacoma, WAPosts: 66Member

    I think I understand why CD get's such a bad rap with some people, I think it's largely due to what happened in Warhammer Online and the awful server performance issues and lag that occured during the Fortress battles. In those times players weren't even being rendered but you'd be unable to move becuase there was an invisible player's collision detection blocking you.

    So, I don't view that as a CD problem, that was up and up a server performance issue.

    In DAoC the run through issue caysed a lot arguments and drama. Casters would have melee LOS by walking through the caster, it was hard enough to be a successful caster in DAoC without that challenge.

     

    Yeah, I'd be curious to hear Mark Jacobs' take on the whole thing, being that he was there for DAoC, WAR and now CU.

     

     

     

     

     

    Those who tread with ill intent
    Beneath our sacred firmament,
    Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
    Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon
  • SyrixIISyrixII Loris, SCPosts: 43Member

    I'm not saying yes or no... but what i will say is that if it is in, it needs to be on both sides. Meaning... friendly collision detection as well as enemy collision detection. I've played games where it was only on enemies and that was horrible as you could run through your own friends but the enemy couldn't follow. Don't get me wrong, I see that as a strategic idea and all, but it really breaks the feel of the game to me.

     

  • KuldebarKuldebar Tacoma, WAPosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by SyrixII

    I'm not saying yes or no... but what i will say is that if it is in, it needs to be on both sides. Meaning... friendly collision detection as well as enemy collision detection. I've played games where it was only on enemies and that was horrible as you could run through your own friends but the enemy couldn't follow. Don't get me wrong, I see that as a strategic idea and all, but it really breaks the feel of the game to me.

     

    I agree, I think CD should apply to friendly and enemy. 

    If I recall WAR had CD off when out of combat but I don't remember if CD applied to friends or not, that could be another reason people might not have liked it. Having enemies disappear into a crowd of their allies, etc.

    Those who tread with ill intent
    Beneath our sacred firmament,
    Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
    Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Yes to CD. It solves SO many problems that tanks face (and in turn makes positioning so much more strategic), and allows for rvr dynamics that formerly had to be contrived via approximative methods.....

    .... just yes. In a game inspired by the original vision of what made DAoC magical, yesyesyes.

    However, this is not DAoC2, so... I am not sure whether what I am saying matters more or less... And I like that.

    I would like to say "just give me daoc with cd" but that is more than a bit pedestrian.
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    I vote yes.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • wormedwormed Calgary, ABPosts: 374Member
    Required, or this game is already a joke before it even begins.
  • tokeshtokesh Vancouver, BCPosts: 35Member
    Need to see what engine they choose.  Shitty CD is no good.
  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
  • KuldebarKuldebar Tacoma, WAPosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by tokesh
    Need to see what engine they choose.  Shitty CD is no good.

    Yup, goes without saying, but a shitty engine would ruin a lot more than just CD implementation.

    Those who tread with ill intent
    Beneath our sacred firmament,
    Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
    Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  • Dane_WildingDane_Wilding Chico, CAPosts: 16Member

    CD seems to be much more accepted here than on reddit >_>

    I already gave my rant there but I have to say yes again. Just adds another layer of depth and strategy that is absolutly necessary for tanks and their casters. 

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    I don't have a strong opinion on it. DAOC didn't have it and other less successful RvR games like WAR did, so that makes me lean against it just because. If the engine can support it with little to no performance hit, I'd like to see how the game plays with CD in alpha/beta. It can always be turned off if testers don't like it.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • HagnarHagnar AlessandriaPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by tokesh
    Need to see what engine they choose.  Shitty CD is no good.

    I agree. I would prefer no CD if the engine couldn't support it

    Born as a berserker, I was also a hero, a bounty hunter, a paladin ,a troubador and a paladin once again during my Mmo''s experiences .. Now travelling in a galaxy looking for a new adventure

  • AdeptusArbitratorAdeptusArbitrator CastlefordPosts: 35Member
    I would be genuinely shocked and surprised if it wasn't included. A lack of collision detection in PvP means I can't take it seriously, regardless of the game. Shield walls inside of keeps and choke points? Yes please. It just makes the battle feel that much more immersive and give tanks a critical role.

    camelot-rp.enjin.com - A hub for roleplayers in Camelot Unchained!

  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member

    NO.

    Didn't work for WAR

    Didn't work for TERA

    Won't work for CU

    It's a terrible idea.

    NO.

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    No, if CD is in this game I won't be playing
    I'm not playing a 200v200 battle where every time you move you hit a wall
    Not to mention all the bugs and problems with this system being implemented with the low budget they have

    This isn't the "solution" to tanks
    Go play daoc people ugh

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    No, if CD is in this game I won't be playing
    I'm not playing a 200v200 battle where every time you move you hit a wall
    Not to mention all the bugs and problems with this system being implemented with the low budget they have

    This isn't the "solution" to tanks
    Go play daoc people ugh

    Seriously... if someone played both WAR and DAoC and thinks CD is a good idea he must be clinically insane. 

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,523Member Uncommon

    The only CD system that worked on a massive scale was PS1 - but it was done client side so it was easily hackable.

    Doing CD the right way requires server side code, which introduces delay due to server side processing in large battles which sucks.

     

    So based on the above I vote NO as there is no good way of implementing this for an rvr game.

    If CU has CD, I will be staying away.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Yes please

    It's one of the few things war did right. Having cd makes your wow style bunny hopping, fig 8ing and step inside and spam aoe "skills" pointless.
  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member

    No. Btw maybe it should just be a poll at this point =p

    CD in war was trash and easy to get around most of the time. Not to mention with CD you need things to move people like kb and pull which I really don't want to see either.

  • paulocafallipaulocafalli Sampa, CAPosts: 256Member
    CD amkes the game so much more realistic, I say yes to CD.
  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Yes please

    It's one of the few things war did right. Having cd makes your wow style bunny hopping, fig 8ing and step inside and spam aoe "skills" pointless.

    Actually CD makes you bunny hop more. In war it was a major counter to CD so goodluck with the bunny hopping hate if they put it in lol

  • KuldebarKuldebar Tacoma, WAPosts: 66Member
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    No, if CD is in this game I won't be playing
    I'm not playing a 200v200 battle where every time you move you hit a wall
    Not to mention all the bugs and problems with this system being implemented with the low budget they have

    This isn't the "solution" to tanks
    Go play daoc people ugh

    Seriously... if someone played both WAR and DAoC and thinks CD is a good idea he must be clinically insane. 

    I guess I am insane.

     

    DAoC's situation was extremely frustrating to casters, the "run through" problem to go LOS so casters lost target was a big stinking pile. Casters already had quite the handicap on the battlefield with the interupt code in the first few years of the game, the cheap move of walking through you enemy just as his cast completed did not sit well with me and others.

     

    People are conflating WAR, Age of Conan and other games that had performance issues or other flaws with having collision detection system. The problems CD have are of the exception type, where certain game objects have the wrong values on the filter.

     

    Yes, you can have problems, but the larger issues are games that don't render enemy players so you can't see them.

     

    A comment: by bmacisaac states it rather well:

    It's even to the point where nobody who plays GW2 WvW even tries to defend anything. There's no point in defending your keep when it's much much easier and quicker just to attack one and trade keeps instead. There's no point in dividing your force to take multiple objectives, small groups are totally ineffective against larger groups. Basically zerging is the only valid and effective tactic, and that's not the game I want to play. Everything CU can do to limit the zerg is a GOOD thing, and collision is most certainly one of those things.

    Those who tread with ill intent
    Beneath our sacred firmament,
    Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
    Albion's might shall strike at thee!

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