Players are so used to using cookie-cutter builds off the web that it's quite an adjustment to go to figuring interesting and different builds. In TSW's case, I think the PvPers are ahead of the curve over the raiders, simply because the "mobs" (other players) can switch it up at any time.
You mean the game that took its combat system from Magic has a similar metagame?! Really?! Even then its a less involved meta than even the likes of LoL offers thanks to how it subs in champs on a much quicker basis. Really the only major changes to the meta have come from the devs flatly nerfing abilities instead of fixing them.
Also, I started to breakdown your block of bullshit above and honestly its not worth the effort. I will retort your statement that there is nothing stopping them from doing what you propose as being amazing uses of the existing system, and that is their current design philosophy. Their 10 man lair quests are easily 4 manned without being close to optimized and they are plenty fine with that. They are plenty fine with completely broken gear (the elite proc helms for example) and easily overgearing/exploiting (when the bosses themselves are not bugged, I mean hell they completely disabled one of the raid bosses abilities because it was bugged and they could not get it fixed before they said it would be launched) the "nightmare" difficulty content. Also, as opposed to your "they go out of their way to be different" then why was if repeatedly stated by the devs that part of the reason the game did so poorly is because it was "too different". I mean joel himself parroted that everywhere for near 2 months!
I liked the game for what it was, I played the hell out of it and in my mind "beat" it, and I will likely go back and hit up the dlc when it finally hits, but the game is mediocre at best due mostly to its design intent. Even going past all of the bugs the designers really have no grasp on how to meet the needs of the different demographics they are attempting to appeal to. The appalling changes to the pvp system in an attempt to actually get it into shape as another shining example. Look at what Joel did with that on Aoc, and you really think its going to get better here? Seriously?
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
Players are so used to using cookie-cutter builds off the web that it's quite an adjustment to go to figuring interesting and different builds. In TSW's case, I think the PvPers are ahead of the curve over the raiders, simply because the "mobs" (other players) can switch it up at any time.
You mean the game that took its combat system from Magic has a similar metagame?! Really?! Even then its a less involved meta than even the likes of LoL offers thanks to how it subs in champs on a much quicker basis. Really the only major changes to the meta have come from the devs flatly nerfing abilities instead of fixing them.
Also, I started to breakdown your block of bullshit above and honestly its not worth the effort. I will retort your statement that there is nothing stopping them from doing what you propose as being amazing uses of the existing system, and that is their current design philosophy. Their 10 man lair quests are easily 4 manned without being close to optimized and they are plenty fine with that. They are plenty fine with completely broken gear (the elite proc helms for example) and easily overgearing/exploiting (when the bosses themselves are not bugged, I mean hell they completely disabled one of the raid bosses abilities because it was bugged and they could not get it fixed before they said it would be launched) the "nightmare" difficulty content. Also, as opposed to your "they go out of their way to be different" then why was if repeatedly stated by the devs that part of the reason the game did so poorly is because it was "too different". I mean joel himself parroted that everywhere for near 2 months!
I liked the game for what it was, I played the hell out of it and in my mind "beat" it, and I will likely go back and hit up the dlc when it finally hits, but the game is mediocre at best due mostly to its design intent. Even going past all of the bugs the designers really have no grasp on how to meet the needs of the different demographics they are attempting to appeal to. The appalling changes to the pvp system in an attempt to actually get it into shape as another shining example. Look at what Joel did with that on Aoc, and you really think its going to get better here? Seriously?
I'm not familiar with AoC PvP, but if you look at the world as static with people never learning and growing and changing, you have a very different view of the world than I do. My understanding is that AoC is much improved today. Although I have just dabbled in that game, I like it. But all MMOs are contantly evolving things, and from my perspective, improving. The games are possibly more niche due to some design decisions made, but I'm fine with that, whatever Joel said or didn't say. The ability wheel is still a great thing, and can still be used to its potential even if imperfect/human developers have not yet fully realized everything about it.
Look, you obviously have delved deep into the endgame build stuff and are perhaps a little upset that all your design advice has not been heeded. I've also played since beta and have a very different outlook and see all kinds of potential in the system as it stands and what it could be -- I enjoy playing it; I have fun and love the build variatons.
So we're obviously looking at it from two very different angles. Let's just agree to disagree, eh?
You mean the game that took its combat system from Magic has a similar metagame?! Really?! Even then its a less involved meta than even the likes of LoL offers thanks to how it subs in champs on a much quicker basis. Really the only major changes to the meta have come from the devs flatly nerfing abilities instead of fixing them.
Also, I started to breakdown your block of bullshit above and honestly its not worth the effort. I will retort your statement that there is nothing stopping them from doing what you propose as being amazing uses of the existing system, and that is their current design philosophy. Their 10 man lair quests are easily 4 manned without being close to optimized and they are plenty fine with that. They are plenty fine with completely broken gear (the elite proc helms for example) and easily overgearing/exploiting (when the bosses themselves are not bugged, I mean hell they completely disabled one of the raid bosses abilities because it was bugged and they could not get it fixed before they said it would be launched) the "nightmare" difficulty content. Also, as opposed to your "they go out of their way to be different" then why was if repeatedly stated by the devs that part of the reason the game did so poorly is because it was "too different". I mean joel himself parroted that everywhere for near 2 months!
I liked the game for what it was, I played the hell out of it and in my mind "beat" it, and I will likely go back and hit up the dlc when it finally hits, but the game is mediocre at best due mostly to its design intent. Even going past all of the bugs the designers really have no grasp on how to meet the needs of the different demographics they are attempting to appeal to. The appalling changes to the pvp system in an attempt to actually get it into shape as another shining example. Look at what Joel did with that on Aoc, and you really think its going to get better here? Seriously?
Ok, I don't normally post in these forums, but this is factually incorrect. The lair missions are designed for groups of 5 people. Not 10. There is a lair raid in the future, but right now only one of three missions can actually be completed by raid members. The other two have objectives that must be completed by someone in each group. Only the group with the person who completed the objective gets credit, so I don't see why you would think this was designed for 10 people. That you still get credit while in the raid group is a nice change for me from other games, but it does not mean that it was meant for 10s. It was meant for 5s. For that matter, it wasn't meant for 5 people in epics. Those mobs drop blues. It was meant for green-geared 5-mans.
Also false in your statement is that Joel was responsible for the PvP changes. He wasn't, so any other title he worked on is irrelevant. They're on their third (I think) PvP dev and he's leaving later this month. If the game were a PvP title - well it was never billed as one. Also, the "appalling" changes? To what? Fusang? Sure, one board out of three is broken. Guess what - Tim Donks (the current PvP developer) fixed the issue preventing the other games from happening at all and changed the third game so that it happens as much or more than the other. That's right, after 8 months I finally get to play El Dorado because I don't have to sit in the queue for hours. It pops after 20 minutes (usually sooner), a comparable wait time to Stonehenge.
Honestly, if you're going to bash the game, go for it. It's definitely not for everyone. But don't do it with untruths. That's just silly.
Comments
You mean the game that took its combat system from Magic has a similar metagame?! Really?! Even then its a less involved meta than even the likes of LoL offers thanks to how it subs in champs on a much quicker basis. Really the only major changes to the meta have come from the devs flatly nerfing abilities instead of fixing them.
Also, I started to breakdown your block of bullshit above and honestly its not worth the effort. I will retort your statement that there is nothing stopping them from doing what you propose as being amazing uses of the existing system, and that is their current design philosophy. Their 10 man lair quests are easily 4 manned without being close to optimized and they are plenty fine with that. They are plenty fine with completely broken gear (the elite proc helms for example) and easily overgearing/exploiting (when the bosses themselves are not bugged, I mean hell they completely disabled one of the raid bosses abilities because it was bugged and they could not get it fixed before they said it would be launched) the "nightmare" difficulty content. Also, as opposed to your "they go out of their way to be different" then why was if repeatedly stated by the devs that part of the reason the game did so poorly is because it was "too different". I mean joel himself parroted that everywhere for near 2 months!
I liked the game for what it was, I played the hell out of it and in my mind "beat" it, and I will likely go back and hit up the dlc when it finally hits, but the game is mediocre at best due mostly to its design intent. Even going past all of the bugs the designers really have no grasp on how to meet the needs of the different demographics they are attempting to appeal to. The appalling changes to the pvp system in an attempt to actually get it into shape as another shining example. Look at what Joel did with that on Aoc, and you really think its going to get better here? Seriously?
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
I'm not familiar with AoC PvP, but if you look at the world as static with people never learning and growing and changing, you have a very different view of the world than I do. My understanding is that AoC is much improved today. Although I have just dabbled in that game, I like it. But all MMOs are contantly evolving things, and from my perspective, improving. The games are possibly more niche due to some design decisions made, but I'm fine with that, whatever Joel said or didn't say. The ability wheel is still a great thing, and can still be used to its potential even if imperfect/human developers have not yet fully realized everything about it.
Look, you obviously have delved deep into the endgame build stuff and are perhaps a little upset that all your design advice has not been heeded. I've also played since beta and have a very different outlook and see all kinds of potential in the system as it stands and what it could be -- I enjoy playing it; I have fun and love the build variatons.
So we're obviously looking at it from two very different angles. Let's just agree to disagree, eh?
Ok, I don't normally post in these forums, but this is factually incorrect. The lair missions are designed for groups of 5 people. Not 10. There is a lair raid in the future, but right now only one of three missions can actually be completed by raid members. The other two have objectives that must be completed by someone in each group. Only the group with the person who completed the objective gets credit, so I don't see why you would think this was designed for 10 people. That you still get credit while in the raid group is a nice change for me from other games, but it does not mean that it was meant for 10s. It was meant for 5s. For that matter, it wasn't meant for 5 people in epics. Those mobs drop blues. It was meant for green-geared 5-mans.
Also false in your statement is that Joel was responsible for the PvP changes. He wasn't, so any other title he worked on is irrelevant. They're on their third (I think) PvP dev and he's leaving later this month. If the game were a PvP title - well it was never billed as one. Also, the "appalling" changes? To what? Fusang? Sure, one board out of three is broken. Guess what - Tim Donks (the current PvP developer) fixed the issue preventing the other games from happening at all and changed the third game so that it happens as much or more than the other. That's right, after 8 months I finally get to play El Dorado because I don't have to sit in the queue for hours. It pops after 20 minutes (usually sooner), a comparable wait time to Stonehenge.
Honestly, if you're going to bash the game, go for it. It's definitely not for everyone. But don't do it with untruths. That's just silly.
Interesting read:
http://www.thesecretworld.com/news/experience_the_depth_of_the_secret_world