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Samsung blames Windows 8 for declining PC sales.

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Originally posted by Deznts

    I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

    Sent from my iPad.

    Because people using the Windows version of Steam is going to kill Windows?  Right.

    In order to kill the Windows gaming market, you'd have to get developers to use other development tools rather than those provided by Microsoft.  In particular, you'd need to get people to use OpenGL rather than Direct3D--and you'd need to make OpenGL ubiquitous to the degree that DirectX is basically dead.  If half of the games that you want are Windows-only while the other half will run just as well on Linux as Windows, then you still need Windows.

    A shift toward OpenGL being more widely used is likely, but I'd bet against DirectX dying out entirely.  OpenGL is roughly even with Direct3D today, after trailing badly behind for several years.  OpenGL ES is already ubiquitous in tablets and phones, and moving from OpenGL ES to the full OpenGL is fairly trivial once the hardware to support it is ready.  But major new graphics API capabilities are likely to come to DirectX first and OpenGL later, as squabbling among graphics vendors can stall progress on OpenGL, while Microsoft has the ability to say, this is the standard and you can support it or not.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    Originally posted by Deznts

    I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

    Sent from my iPad.

    Just don't set anything apple on your cushiony couch...doing so may break it lol.  Samsung makes more durable items.  One of the ways Apple makes money is from making things that break so easy, you're guaranteed to have to by another within a year or two.  I've dropped my S3 on the sidewalk, all it did was chip the corner that it hit.  My friend had a iPhone 5, he dropped it out of his holster, off the couch and onto his carpet...the screen broke...Last time I check concrete from over 6' hits alot harder than a foot to a cushioned couch, another 2 feet to a carpeted floor hehe.

     

    Anyways, If there's anything to blame for the PC sales, it couldn't possibly be the economy could it?  Without going into it too deep, people just don't have the money to go spend $600+ on a windows 8 computer like they used to.  I used to blow $1000 every two years or so on a new computer, and I haven't bought a computer in 3 years now. Well one that was for me anyways.

    Eh, Apple makes pretty high quality products actually, regardless of your personal anecdotes.  They make their money because they have very high margins.  Some of it's because they aren't licensing out someone else's OS, but most of it is because they just choose to charge a premium (and they know people will pay for it).  Most other OEM's all try and compete soley on price, which cuts out of their margins.

    You make me like charity

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Nilenya
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Nilenya

    Tbh I doubt it.

    Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

    I think you misunderstand.

    I doubt it, was my answer in reference to the OP's question, not Samsungs numbers. People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with. They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer. - but a lot of people who play mmo's might also be people who keep updating pc components and keeping the OS they prefer for years, regardless of whatever samsung, or microsoft have on their latest market push.

    Also. - PC sales might be declining but how do they factor in all the people who dont buy ready made pc's?

    Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc, instead of an overpriced pc at samsung, where you wouldnt necessarily have it be a gaming specialised pc anyway.

    I never in my life bought a pc, yet I have played pc games for nearly 15 years. - I dont factor in at all in stats on pc purchases, yet I get a new pc every 3 years. I know Im not in a small minority on this.

    Your view is entirely from the perspective of a computer savvy PC user.

    • "People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with."
    • "They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer."
    • "Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc"

    This is definitely not the average MMO gamer that you describe there.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Nilenya
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Nilenya

    Tbh I doubt it.

    Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

    I think you misunderstand.

    I doubt it, was my answer in reference to the OP's question, not Samsungs numbers. People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with. They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer. - but a lot of people who play mmo's might also be people who keep updating pc components and keeping the OS they prefer for years, regardless of whatever samsung, or microsoft have on their latest market push.

    Also. - PC sales might be declining but how do they factor in all the people who dont buy ready made pc's?

    Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc, instead of an overpriced pc at samsung, where you wouldnt necessarily have it be a gaming specialised pc anyway.

    I never in my life bought a pc, yet I have played pc games for nearly 15 years. - I dont factor in at all in stats on pc purchases, yet I get a new pc every 3 years. I know Im not in a small minority on this.

    Your view is entirely from the perspective of a computer savvy PC user.

    • "People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with."
    • "They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer."
    • "Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc"

    This is definitely not the average MMO gamer that you describe there.

    I've been playing MMO's since 2000, and built my first PC last month :)

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • PhelcherPhelcher Member CommonPosts: 1,053
    Pointless... because u can still choose win8, or win7 on any build.

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759

    Win8 is a disaster. After so many years of improvement, they want to throw away so much of the the good stuff and force the limited possibilities of the touch world on a pc operating system. Micro$oft should do what they do best and make the best OS for pc's (sorry Linux), that takes advantages of all the things a touch device doesn't offer.

    Pc will keep existing, because it is still the best and only real choice to run applications of all sorts on. Sure the future is touch, but touch is just not an effective way to do specialized stuff with - Keyboard and mouse is still superior for most applications and situations, combined with the versability of a pc.

    We all hate Micro$oft because they have owned us for so long, but if you think about it (and is not Apple religious), Windows doesn't really have a serious contender on the pc.

     

    Pc buyers might wonder if pc's have a future with Micro$oft turning away from their backbone with win8, and that might affect pc sales, but still to draw a direct line would probably be exxagerating.

  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862

    I wasn't even aware Samsung built PCs.  The closest thing I knew of that they had to a PC was a tablet.

    Anyway, the consumer PC market will go away at some point.  Dell trying to buy back their shares and go private and focus on different technology is a big speaker of that.  

    However, there will always be a market for gaming hardware because any kind of serious gaming on a tablet isn't that fun, even if the hardware could support it.  People want their 20"+ screens and screaming fast video cards.  Tablets aren't built for that.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by Myria

    PC sales were in decline long before Windows8 launched, frankly blaming that on Win8 is moronic in the extreme.

    I could see saying Win8 didn't pick sales up the way previous versions have, but that's a different thing, and, frankly probably not really relevenant. Between mobile computing having taken off and the pace of computing having vastly slowed, a sales slowdown is and was inevitable, regardless of what MS did.

    Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade?

    The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.

     I have heard that a number of factors come into play.  Remember when single core speeds were going up then they went to multicore.  Now we are behind the number of core processors that was projected (we should be 8 as common and more as bleeding edge) but software isn't using the cores as well as it should be.  So we are still using 4 core processors (intel) without speed increases and why does anyone need to upgrade from that?  Only when you are forced to.  

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  • LeetheLeethe Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Generally, I've found it best to skip every other MS OS upgrade. I sat out vista too and I am so happy that I did. MS never learn. They are not apple. PC users are always looking at the bottom line and if it won't make your apps sing and dance then there is no point. Take the money you would spend on Win8 and put it towards a better GPU. That WILL have a marked impact on your gaming.

    There is NO miracle patch.

    95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

    Hope is not a stategy.
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  • bishbosh2bishbosh2 Member Posts: 66

    i bought that $15 upgrade to win 8 pro and it was worth it.

    boots and shuts down faster

    bettery battery life on my laptop

    C++ winRT framework replacing c# .net

    overall runs smoother with less crashes

     

    only downside i can think of is that it is kind of annoying having to deal with both the metro UI and the desktop UI. I think the metro UI is great but there is barely any support for it yet. i am pretty sure microsoft is trying to slowly phase out the desktop environment in favor of the Metro UI

     

    i think samsung claims are stupid because they can simply sell their computers with win7. PC sales are declining simply because most peoples PC usage involves check email, look at photos and facebook and watch youtube videos which can be accomplished with a tablet pc. dw PC isnt going to die because there are a lots of people who use their PC for doing useful things like science, business, photo editing, software development, engineering etc etc and also playing computer games. 

     

  • Konner920Konner920 Member UncommonPosts: 295
    I'm going to be honest. I really hope PC gaming starts going more on linux, cause if there was linux versions for newer games, I'd stop using windows completely. But to actually be on topic, it's not doing good because no one likes change. I've been using Windows 8 since the developer preview and leaked builds before that, and I've gotten to the point that I can just fly through the metro UI to do things. And the other reason I use Windows 8, is because UEFI and an SSD is pretty much the best thing ever. I don't care if the UI is different, I just want it to perform amazingly. And it does. My windows 7 install on MBR with my SSD, was slow as hell, and that's because Windows 7 doesn't take advantage of SSDs like Windows 8 does.
  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    I actually can see this, particularly with Windows 8 being 'required'. Its a huge thing that happened where Vista ended up being given the option to 'downgrade' to XP. Windows 8's 'start menu' is quite horrible and its shown a lot that its actually MORE difficult to do things with.

     

    So there is some truth, but I just can't really contribute it completely to the OS. There is ways to work around it and even get rid of it, which actually makes Windows 8 slightly better in performance then Windows 7 though it does still have its flaws. Then again, it does require you knowing what to do.

     

    SO in that regard, I do think its in some parts true.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Konner920
    I'm going to be honest. I really hope PC gaming starts going more on linux, cause if there was linux versions for newer games, I'd stop using windows completely. But to actually be on topic, it's not doing good because no one likes change. I've been using Windows 8 since the developer preview and leaked builds before that, and I've gotten to the point that I can just fly through the metro UI to do things. And the other reason I use Windows 8, is because UEFI and an SSD is pretty much the best thing ever. I don't care if the UI is different, I just want it to perform amazingly. And it does. My windows 7 install on MBR with my SSD, was slow as hell, and that's because Windows 7 doesn't take advantage of SSDs like Windows 8 does.

    Speaking from experience: While the power consumption isn't that stellar on my laptop using Windows 7 my boot time is around 5-10 second because I only ever shut down my laptop when I need to install updates for windows, otherwise it goes into hibernation so yeah, 5-10 seconds and I get to pick up where I left off before I had to put the laptop in hibernation, maybe Windows 8 can pull off less than 5-10 seconds but... why would anyone care? except maybe those on a healthy does of Slo-Mo (yes, that's a Dredd 3D reference).

    image
  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,022

    Let us face the truth Windows 8 was built for cell phones, not for desktop PC"s.   Nothing anybody does is going to help desktop pc's. 

    Also Microsoft blue it.  The price of surface, and other tablets and Laptops capable of having the touchscreens are so over priced nobody wants them. 

    Like it or not the hard core pc gamer does not need windows 8,   heck I got 2 acer screens 25 inch lcd displays niether of them are touchscreens,  there is no need for me to upgrade to windows 8.

    All I did was buy me a new mother board and upgraded.  I will continue to run windows 7 64 bit, until Microsoft can figure out what they done wrong. 

     

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,814

    The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people.

    PC sales are not expected to ever recover.

    ------------
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  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by olepi

    The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people.

    PC sales are not expected to ever recover.

    Maybe but Intel are bringing out a chip which by what I heard it is good for both mobile platforms (tablets, smartphones,etc) and more traditional ones (desktops, laptops, etc)

    And this will be in this summer, remains to be seen if the price to quality to the soon to be old Ivy Bridge is good and the price/quality vs arm's price/quality in the mobile area is net superior (which unlike the the comparison between Haswell and Ivy Bridge has a critical emphasis on power consumption).

    image
  • BrenelaelBrenelael Member UncommonPosts: 3,821

    I work part time at a nation wide retailer that sells PCs as a second job. I can tell you as a matter of personal experience that PC returns quadrupled after Windows 8 launched. We may have had 4 PCs returned a month prior to Windows 8 and now it's 4 PCs a week or more. Before the majority of returns were due to hardware issues and were simply exchanged. Now the vast majority are because people hate Windows 8 and they just want a refund. It's so bad that the entire retail chain I work for is debating changing the return policy that the company has had in place since they first opened their first store to combat this huge surge of PC returns. Windows 8 is having a huge negitive impact with the average PC user.

     

    Bren

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  • VyethVyeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,461
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Vyeth

    Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..

     

    While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense.  It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.

    Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely.  Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.

    The day that dishwashers can efficiently cook and warm our food like microwaves then naturally less microwaves would be sold in favor of the multi-use dishwasher..

    It's not about replacing things that each do something different. With this situation its about taking an electronic device and making it fit into a smaller package that was once used exclusively for something else. If one day we can make a wrist watch as powerful as an IPhone and cost a third less to consumers, we will then also have this discussion about them too and why they are declining in sales..

  • jocieBjocieB Member Posts: 72

    Hardware suppliers have been whining about being held at gunpoint by Microsoft for decades - claiming they can't supply a different version of Windows because MS stopped supporting it.  They only have themselves to blame by refusing to force Microsoft out of their market monopolisation and give consumers choices.  And not just choices of a Windows OS either. 

    They've treated consumers like mugs (and consumers have long been happy to get mugged) for far too long and it's pleasing to see these losses - though highly unlikely anything groundbreakingly progressive will come from it.  It didn't when the same thing happened with ME and Vista.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Originally posted by erictlewis

    Let us face the truth Windows 8 was built for cell phones, not for desktop PC"s.   Nothing anybody does is going to help desktop pc's. 

    That's incorrect.  If you want an OS for a cell phone and ask Microsoft what to get, they'll suggest Windows Phone 8, which is totally different from Windows 8, in spite of the similar name.

    Windows 8 is intended for tablets, in addition to desktops and laptops, but not cell phones.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by olepi

    The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people.

    PC sales are not expected to ever recover.

    Maybe but Intel are bringing out a chip which by what I heard it is good for both mobile platforms (tablets, smartphones,etc) and more traditional ones (desktops, laptops, etc)

    And this will be in this summer, remains to be seen if the price to quality to the soon to be old Ivy Bridge is good and the price/quality vs arm's price/quality in the mobile area is net superior (which unlike the the comparison between Haswell and Ivy Bridge has a critical emphasis on power consumption).

    Haswell will not go in cell phones.  Intel has their Atom processors for cell phones.

    Intel will try to get Haswell into relatively higher end tablets.  For some weird niche products that try to cram a lot more power into a tablet than they should, Haswell will make sense.  As far as I'm aware, that means any successor to the Razer Edge, and that's about it.  For more normal Windows tablets, the upcoming chip you want is AMD Temash.

    Haswell is more targeted at laptops, as it will bring idle power consumption down greatly, which boosts battery life.  Haswell will probably be nifty for desktops, too, but not much better than Ivy Bridge, so not worth waiting for unless launch is imminent.

    -----

    Part of the problem is that Microsoft built Windows 8 with the intention that it would be good for tablets, and then there wasn't any decent x86 tablet hardware ready when Windows 8 launched.  AMD Hondo should have been a good chip for it, but Global Foundries' 28 nm process node wasn't ready, so the original Hondo was canceled and AMD reappropriated the code name for a slightly modified Desna chip.

    The other alternatives available today are Intel Ivy Bridge, which uses unreasonably large amounts of power for a tablet, and Intel Clover Trail Atom, which sports dismal performance and will not run Windows 8 well.

    Intel Silvermont Atom might be all right for Windows 8 tablets, but that's not coming until around the end of the year.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by olepi

    The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people.

    PC sales are not expected to ever recover.

    Maybe but Intel are bringing out a chip which by what I heard it is good for both mobile platforms (tablets, smartphones,etc) and more traditional ones (desktops, laptops, etc)

    And this will be in this summer, remains to be seen if the price to quality to the soon to be old Ivy Bridge is good and the price/quality vs arm's price/quality in the mobile area is net superior (which unlike the the comparison between Haswell and Ivy Bridge has a critical emphasis on power consumption).

    Haswell will not go in cell phones.  Intel has their Atom processors for cell phones.

    Intel will try to get Haswell into relatively higher end tablets.  For some weird niche products that try to cram a lot more power into a tablet than they should, Haswell will make sense.  As far as I'm aware, that means any successor to the Razer Edge, and that's about it.  For more normal Windows tablets, the upcoming chip you want is AMD Temash.

    Haswell is more targeted at laptops, as it will bring idle power consumption down greatly, which boosts battery life.  Haswell will probably be nifty for desktops, too, but not much better than Ivy Bridge, so not worth waiting for unless launch is imminent.

    -----

    Part of the problem is that Microsoft built Windows 8 with the intention that it would be good for tablets, and then there wasn't any decent x86 tablet hardware ready when Windows 8 launched.  AMD Hondo should have been a good chip for it, but Global Foundries' 28 nm process node wasn't ready, so the original Hondo was canceled and AMD reappropriated the code name for a slightly modified Desna chip.

    The other alternatives available today are Intel Ivy Bridge, which uses unreasonably large amounts of power for a tablet, and Intel Clover Trail Atom, which sports dismal performance and will not run Windows 8 well.

    Intel Silvermont Atom might be all right for Windows 8 tablets, but that's not coming until around the end of the year.

    Right, sorry, was late last night and my brain shorted on the Haswell = Silvermont thing (though to be fair they're based on the same architecture).

    Still... if ARM doesn't get something out in time and this

    is correct word for word (take special not of the dimensions, that would mean silvermont could be fitted in larger smartphones such as the galaxy series as well)  then they'll have a hell of a time catching up.

    image
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