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Originally posted by Deznts On top of all that the windows marketplace will NOT save PC gaming as I for one will NEVER use it. And with so many huge successes on other (typically mobile) platforms now, developers are eager to release on something other than or in addition to PC
False, while major retailers do indeed stop stocking older components fairly early ( once Haswell hit I doubt you'll find Sandybridge cpus easily in major retailer stores) there are still many, many places where you can acquire older components either slightly used or even factory sealed. I know this because before upgrading to an Ivy bridge my brother tempted me to look up and see what I could find for an upgrade to the current config with the cpu unchanged and I found quite a few bits to be honest, some not so great, some for workstations but I did still run across gaming components factory sealed and this was for a Intel Core Duo Quad Core processor.
Originally posted by Deznts I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye! Sent from my iPad.
How so? How is Steam going to kill the Windows gaming market?
Who and how would anyone target the office PC? It would first have to start with someone making a competitive office suite. No one in the world is doing that now. The closest thing you have is Apache Open Office, and frankly they are so far behind the curve it's not funny. Please don't even mention Google Apps because then I know you're not serious about the discussion.
People love to hipster trash on Microsoft, but unfortunately none of them put their money where their mouth is. Will someone please come up with an alternative OS that is open and works with all the features of Win 8. Will someone please come up with a competitive office suite. The only alternative to .NET is Java and that is a totally non-secure joke.
Competition provides Microsoft, or any company, incentive to do better. Where is the competition?
Just don't set anything apple on your cushiony couch...doing so may break it lol. Samsung makes more durable items. One of the ways Apple makes money is from making things that break so easy, you're guaranteed to have to by another within a year or two. I've dropped my S3 on the sidewalk, all it did was chip the corner that it hit. My friend had a iPhone 5, he dropped it out of his holster, off the couch and onto his carpet...the screen broke...Last time I check concrete from over 6' hits alot harder than a foot to a cushioned couch, another 2 feet to a carpeted floor hehe.
Anyways, If there's anything to blame for the PC sales, it couldn't possibly be the economy could it? Without going into it too deep, people just don't have the money to go spend $600+ on a windows 8 computer like they used to. I used to blow $1000 every two years or so on a new computer, and I haven't bought a computer in 3 years now. Well one that was for me anyways.
Originally posted by dave6660 Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by Arclan I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share. /sarcasm off
At least in phones and tablets, Samsung taking market share from Apple has been the big story of the last couple of years, not the other way around. Apple has been reduced to a niche player in phones, just like they have been in desktops and laptops for decades and for about the same reasons. I fully expect to see the same happen in tablets over the course of this year, as Apple is besieged from below by ever better Android tablets and from above by Windows 8 tablets that finally get worthwhile hardware starting in about three months. Now, it's a lucrative high-priced, high profit margin niche, so if you're going to be a niche player in a market, Apple has the niche they'd want. But the days of "getting a tablet" being nearly synonymous with "getting an iPad" are over.
Many companies in the cell phone market are barely breaking even and some are losing money. Apple has 8.7% of the market share yet they take home a large share of the profit. I wouldn't count them out so soon.
That link has been more than a year old, and much has changed since then. It's like linking a year-old article proclaiming Kentucky the favorite to win the NCAA basketball tournament and thinking that it still applies this year.
Yes, Apple is still making money on iPhones and iPads and probably will for quite some time to come. They probably make a lot of money selling laptops, too, even with such a small market share. But that's far from being the dominant player in the market.
You make me like charity
Because people using the Windows version of Steam is going to kill Windows? Right.
In order to kill the Windows gaming market, you'd have to get developers to use other development tools rather than those provided by Microsoft. In particular, you'd need to get people to use OpenGL rather than Direct3D--and you'd need to make OpenGL ubiquitous to the degree that DirectX is basically dead. If half of the games that you want are Windows-only while the other half will run just as well on Linux as Windows, then you still need Windows.
A shift toward OpenGL being more widely used is likely, but I'd bet against DirectX dying out entirely. OpenGL is roughly even with Direct3D today, after trailing badly behind for several years. OpenGL ES is already ubiquitous in tablets and phones, and moving from OpenGL ES to the full OpenGL is fairly trivial once the hardware to support it is ready. But major new graphics API capabilities are likely to come to DirectX first and OpenGL later, as squabbling among graphics vendors can stall progress on OpenGL, while Microsoft has the ability to say, this is the standard and you can support it or not.
Originally posted by Gravarg Originally posted by Deznts I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye! Sent from my iPad.
Eh, Apple makes pretty high quality products actually, regardless of your personal anecdotes. They make their money because they have very high margins. Some of it's because they aren't licensing out someone else's OS, but most of it is because they just choose to charge a premium (and they know people will pay for it). Most other OEM's all try and compete soley on price, which cuts out of their margins.
Originally posted by Nilenya Originally posted by CalmOceans Originally posted by Nilenya Tbh I doubt it.
Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.
I think you misunderstand.
I doubt it, was my answer in reference to the OP's question, not Samsungs numbers. People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with. They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer. - but a lot of people who play mmo's might also be people who keep updating pc components and keeping the OS they prefer for years, regardless of whatever samsung, or microsoft have on their latest market push.
Also. - PC sales might be declining but how do they factor in all the people who dont buy ready made pc's?
Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc, instead of an overpriced pc at samsung, where you wouldnt necessarily have it be a gaming specialised pc anyway.
I never in my life bought a pc, yet I have played pc games for nearly 15 years. - I dont factor in at all in stats on pc purchases, yet I get a new pc every 3 years. I know Im not in a small minority on this.
Your view is entirely from the perspective of a computer savvy PC user.
This is definitely not the average MMO gamer that you describe there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Nilenya Originally posted by CalmOceans Originally posted by Nilenya Tbh I doubt it.
I've been playing MMO's since 2000, and built my first PC last month
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Win8 is a disaster. After so many years of improvement, they want to throw away so much of the the good stuff and force the limited possibilities of the touch world on a pc operating system. Micro$oft should do what they do best and make the best OS for pc's (sorry Linux), that takes advantages of all the things a touch device doesn't offer.
Pc will keep existing, because it is still the best and only real choice to run applications of all sorts on. Sure the future is touch, but touch is just not an effective way to do specialized stuff with - Keyboard and mouse is still superior for most applications and situations, combined with the versability of a pc.
We all hate Micro$oft because they have owned us for so long, but if you think about it (and is not Apple religious), Windows doesn't really have a serious contender on the pc.
Pc buyers might wonder if pc's have a future with Micro$oft turning away from their backbone with win8, and that might affect pc sales, but still to draw a direct line would probably be exxagerating.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I wasn't even aware Samsung built PCs. The closest thing I knew of that they had to a PC was a tablet.
Anyway, the consumer PC market will go away at some point. Dell trying to buy back their shares and go private and focus on different technology is a big speaker of that.
However, there will always be a market for gaming hardware because any kind of serious gaming on a tablet isn't that fun, even if the hardware could support it. People want their 20"+ screens and screaming fast video cards. Tablets aren't built for that.
Originally posted by Myria PC sales were in decline long before Windows8 launched, frankly blaming that on Win8 is moronic in the extreme. I could see saying Win8 didn't pick sales up the way previous versions have, but that's a different thing, and, frankly probably not really relevenant. Between mobile computing having taken off and the pace of computing having vastly slowed, a sales slowdown is and was inevitable, regardless of what MS did. Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade? The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.
I have heard that a number of factors come into play. Remember when single core speeds were going up then they went to multicore. Now we are behind the number of core processors that was projected (we should be 8 as common and more as bleeding edge) but software isn't using the cores as well as it should be. So we are still using 4 core processors (intel) without speed increases and why does anyone need to upgrade from that? Only when you are forced to.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.______________________________"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
i bought that $15 upgrade to win 8 pro and it was worth it.
boots and shuts down faster
bettery battery life on my laptop
C++ winRT framework replacing c# .net
overall runs smoother with less crashes
only downside i can think of is that it is kind of annoying having to deal with both the metro UI and the desktop UI. I think the metro UI is great but there is barely any support for it yet. i am pretty sure microsoft is trying to slowly phase out the desktop environment in favor of the Metro UI
i think samsung claims are stupid because they can simply sell their computers with win7. PC sales are declining simply because most peoples PC usage involves check email, look at photos and facebook and watch youtube videos which can be accomplished with a tablet pc. dw PC isnt going to die because there are a lots of people who use their PC for doing useful things like science, business, photo editing, software development, engineering etc etc and also playing computer games.
I actually can see this, particularly with Windows 8 being 'required'. Its a huge thing that happened where Vista ended up being given the option to 'downgrade' to XP. Windows 8's 'start menu' is quite horrible and its shown a lot that its actually MORE difficult to do things with.
So there is some truth, but I just can't really contribute it completely to the OS. There is ways to work around it and even get rid of it, which actually makes Windows 8 slightly better in performance then Windows 7 though it does still have its flaws. Then again, it does require you knowing what to do.
SO in that regard, I do think its in some parts true.
Originally posted by Konner920 I'm going to be honest. I really hope PC gaming starts going more on linux, cause if there was linux versions for newer games, I'd stop using windows completely. But to actually be on topic, it's not doing good because no one likes change. I've been using Windows 8 since the developer preview and leaked builds before that, and I've gotten to the point that I can just fly through the metro UI to do things. And the other reason I use Windows 8, is because UEFI and an SSD is pretty much the best thing ever. I don't care if the UI is different, I just want it to perform amazingly. And it does. My windows 7 install on MBR with my SSD, was slow as hell, and that's because Windows 7 doesn't take advantage of SSDs like Windows 8 does.
Speaking from experience: While the power consumption isn't that stellar on my laptop using Windows 7 my boot time is around 5-10 second because I only ever shut down my laptop when I need to install updates for windows, otherwise it goes into hibernation so yeah, 5-10 seconds and I get to pick up where I left off before I had to put the laptop in hibernation, maybe Windows 8 can pull off less than 5-10 seconds but... why would anyone care? except maybe those on a healthy does of Slo-Mo (yes, that's a Dredd 3D reference).
Let us face the truth Windows 8 was built for cell phones, not for desktop PC"s. Nothing anybody does is going to help desktop pc's.
Also Microsoft blue it. The price of surface, and other tablets and Laptops capable of having the touchscreens are so over priced nobody wants them.
Like it or not the hard core pc gamer does not need windows 8, heck I got 2 acer screens 25 inch lcd displays niether of them are touchscreens, there is no need for me to upgrade to windows 8.
All I did was buy me a new mother board and upgraded. I will continue to run windows 7 64 bit, until Microsoft can figure out what they done wrong.
The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people.
PC sales are not expected to ever recover.
------------RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.
Originally posted by olepi The chip industry has seen a steady decline in high-end processors, those that go into PC's. PC sales in general have dropped, mainly due to tablets. Many tablets and smart-phones have ARM processors, which are too "weak" to go into regular PC's, but are still good enough for most people. PC sales are not expected to ever recover.
Maybe but Intel are bringing out a chip which by what I heard it is good for both mobile platforms (tablets, smartphones,etc) and more traditional ones (desktops, laptops, etc)
And this will be in this summer, remains to be seen if the price to quality to the soon to be old Ivy Bridge is good and the price/quality vs arm's price/quality in the mobile area is net superior (which unlike the the comparison between Haswell and Ivy Bridge has a critical emphasis on power consumption).
I work part time at a nation wide retailer that sells PCs as a second job. I can tell you as a matter of personal experience that PC returns quadrupled after Windows 8 launched. We may have had 4 PCs returned a month prior to Windows 8 and now it's 4 PCs a week or more. Before the majority of returns were due to hardware issues and were simply exchanged. Now the vast majority are because people hate Windows 8 and they just want a refund. It's so bad that the entire retail chain I work for is debating changing the return policy that the company has had in place since they first opened their first store to combat this huge surge of PC returns. Windows 8 is having a huge negitive impact with the average PC user.
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by Vyeth Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..
While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense. It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.
Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely. Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.
The day that dishwashers can efficiently cook and warm our food like microwaves then naturally less microwaves would be sold in favor of the multi-use dishwasher..
It's not about replacing things that each do something different. With this situation its about taking an electronic device and making it fit into a smaller package that was once used exclusively for something else. If one day we can make a wrist watch as powerful as an IPhone and cost a third less to consumers, we will then also have this discussion about them too and why they are declining in sales..
Hardware suppliers have been whining about being held at gunpoint by Microsoft for decades - claiming they can't supply a different version of Windows because MS stopped supporting it. They only have themselves to blame by refusing to force Microsoft out of their market monopolisation and give consumers choices. And not just choices of a Windows OS either.
They've treated consumers like mugs (and consumers have long been happy to get mugged) for far too long and it's pleasing to see these losses - though highly unlikely anything groundbreakingly progressive will come from it. It didn't when the same thing happened with ME and Vista.