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Originally posted by Burntvet Yeah, over-saturation with various devices is the problem. Things that only a desktop or laptop could do before can be done on tablets, netbooks, Smartphones, PS3s, and even the high end E-readers. So, it is no surprise that PC sales are down. That said, while Windows 8 is "nothing special" (and continues the "Every Other Windows OS Release is Meh" curse) I do not think it is the primary problem.
Well said...There is just too much other stuff out now (and all of it is cheaper than a PC).....Its also an issue for game makers now as they have to decide what format they are going to tailor their game to......It used to be a no-brainer but now there are other things to think about.
Originally posted by Myria Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade? The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.
This would be my guess as well. Even as a hobbyst I find myself upgrading much less than I used to 15-20 years ago. I can't justify the price of upgrades vs the performance increase that I'd see.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by ShakyMo I don't think desktop sales have gone down, its just more people are building their own or going to small independent retailers rather than pay inflated prices for pcs with non standard components from the big manufacturers. Laptops are another matter though, they are getting hit hard by ios / Android devices.
AMD and Intel are reporting that CPU sales are down, too. Whether you buy from an OEM or build your own, you probably need a CPU from either AMD or Intel.
The real "problem" is that once computers are good enough, there's no need to replace it every 3 years anymore. I built a nice computer in 2009. Today, it's still nice, so I see no urgent need to replace it. Every other computer that I've ever had felt rather dated 3 years after I got it.
If people used to replace a computer every 3 years, and now replace it every 5 years instead, then that's a 40% drop in annual sales right there. The 3 and 5 are made up numbers, of course, but the longer replacement cycle is not.
It's partially because gains in what hardware can do have slowed down. It used to be that if you bought a computer, four years later, you could expect to buy something new that was about four times as fast. Compared to the computer I built in 2009, however, you're not getting something four times as fast. A Radeon HD 7950 is maybe twice as fast as my Radeon HD 5850. (I cite the 7950 in particular because it's the natural successor card for a clean comparison--and the 7950 is actually more expensive than the $260 that I paid for my 5850.) A Core i7-3770K is maybe 50% faster than my Core i7-860. My aging video card still supports the latest graphics APIs, apart from the irrelevant DirectX 11.1. I've got an SSD, and newer SSDs are much faster in synthetic benchmarks, but even my old OCZ Agility is so fast in real-world use that there isn't much gains to be had from a faster SSD. I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.
Yeah, I am going to be getting my wife, and probably me a computer soon, and was thinking how old my wife's computer was, and it still plays games decently. We would get new computers every 3 years or so, like clockwork, and when we did, the old ones were garbage.
A buddy of mine bought a computer about a year and a half ago, got a GTX 570 card in it, that is still pretty comparible to a GTX 660/660 TI, which is plenty to play anything coming out, unless you have multiple monitors or feel the need to play at high resolutions and maybe on ultra or something. Was telling him how his card he bought is still nice now.
Windows 8 does not scare me, never used it, but it won't stop me from getting it. I am looking at building my own computer and I will be ordering Win 8 as the OS. I have 7 now, and I have no problem with it, but I cannot see 8 being that big a deal. I have a windows phone I like, and 8 works better with the phones atm also, so that will be a plus for me.
Tablet sales also are killing them, between that and computers lasting longer, I think this is the new cycle for computers, not saying their isn't people that refuse to use windows 8, but if you want a computer with windows 7, I have zero problems finding computers with 7, and copies of 7...Most of the build sites also offer both 7 and 8 atm.
Ive never owned a gaming computer, always used a factory bought with a gaming gfx card and power supply. That was untill 2 years ago, I bought a $1200 gaming rig with all the bells and whistles from Ibuypower.com and I can run every game I've played at max settings. Do not think I'll need to upgrade this machine for a very long time (5+ years).
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by Arclan I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share. /sarcasm off
Well, you would have a good argument if Samsung's other premium products were becoming an issue, but Samsung's TV sales are doing good for example.
The economy in developing nations isn't bad at all, many of them are able to afford electronics like televisions, and PC too.
I worked for Microsoft (in engineering and development) for many years. The product has declined since Windows XP. Though I will say I was impressed with Windows 7 (made after I left). Vista was a disaster.
I dont like the direction of Windows 8 but also have not installed it yet. But have heard that there are security issues with games running on Windows 8 that made me hesistant. Unfortunately I cant remember the details but I do remember I didnt like it.
Originally posted by Myria PC sales were in decline long before Windows8 launched, frankly blaming that on Win8 is moronic in the extreme. I could see saying Win8 didn't pick sales up the way previous versions have, but that's a different thing, and, frankly probably not really relevenant. Between mobile computing having taken off and the pace of computing having vastly slowed, a sales slowdown is and was inevitable, regardless of what MS did. Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade? The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.
That is false. PC sales increased from 2010 to 2011 (http://www.statisticbrain.com/computer-sales-statistics/) and has been steadily increasing since 2000. So something has caused it to drop from 2011 to 2012 which coincidently was the year Win 8 was released.
And didnt "pick up sales" and decline IS the same thing, because every new windows version is shipped with new PCs so the decline could very well be because customers were reluctant to get a PC with windows 8 on it.
The fact is that windows 8 brought very little to the desktop PCs and actually degraded the UI for those who do not have a touch screen so it makes perfect sense that people would not get a PC with an operative system which apparently adds nothing to it. Where as Windows 7 added a lot over Windows Vista, which added some over Windows XP (but not much).
Originally posted by dave6660 Originally posted by Myria Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade? The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.
Same here. I was considering buying a new gaming computer for Christmas but after some thought concluded that my 3year old non-gaming computer was still fine for my gaming needs. Instead I bought a SSD and a new sound card and decided to revist the issue in 6 months to see if anything changed.
Originally posted by CalmOceans I get increasingly worried about what Microsoft is doing since it's really not going to help PC gaming if they keep making these kind of blunders. Samsung just said they're not selling PC anymore because no one wants Windows 8, it;s all over the news: http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/03/133_131743.html You could argue that it's samsung's fault. But Acer, HP and Fujitsu have suffered huge losses too and they all said it happened after the launch of Windows 8. Isn't this going to have a very negative impact on MMO too if no one even cares to update or buy a PC because of Windows 8.
No this is a huge plus!!!
now developers can finally make MMOs based on gameplay rather then keep trying to improve graphics.
that money that went into improving graphics every year in the genre and can be used for better gameplay.
Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..
It's to bad people don't read the information so freely available on the internet. I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8 PRO for 39.99. I DON"T us the app layout. I have a start button AND start menu. It looks like Windows 7 but runs better. In fact the background coding for Windows 8 improves my CPU AMD 8350 capabilities IN GAME. That is why I bought it. I learned I could customize my desktop to run like Windows 7 yet have the performance capabilities that exceeded my previous operating system. Although the increase between operating systems is small, it is still an increase.
Don't be fooled thinking you need to use the touch screen interface if you decide to move to Windows 8.
Gamers pay up to 100 bucks on closed loop water cooling systems to decrease their CPU temps so they can over clock. It was an easy choice for me once I learned the information I needed to make a decision.
Protip: Download Pokki App. It will give you an EXCELLENT windows menu and start button.
I could see this. Many people I know don't want W8. It's not because they don't want to adapt. It's just there is no benefit for buying the new OS at all right now.
Some games take a hit in performance, Others play at the same FPS or 1 or 2 FPS higher (from what I've read). Now if there were signifigant reasons to buy a $100+ dollar piece of software. I'd do it. That's why I bought W7, coming from vista. But why switch to an OS that doesn't have any real benefit besides flashy interfaces that somewhat alienate it's own audience?
As a PC gamer right now. It's better to stick to 7 and save that extra money on games or hardware upgrades.
Monster Hunter since '04!Currently playing: MH4U, Blade and Soul, and FFXIV
At least in phones and tablets, Samsung taking market share from Apple has been the big story of the last couple of years, not the other way around. Apple has been reduced to a niche player in phones, just like they have been in desktops and laptops for decades and for about the same reasons. I fully expect to see the same happen in tablets over the course of this year, as Apple is besieged from below by ever better Android tablets and from above by Windows 8 tablets that finally get worthwhile hardware starting in about three months. Now, it's a lucrative high-priced, high profit margin niche, so if you're going to be a niche player in a market, Apple has the niche they'd want. But the days of "getting a tablet" being nearly synonymous with "getting an iPad" are over.
Originally posted by Vyeth Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..
While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense. It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.
Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely. Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by Vyeth Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..
It is nonsense because the global sales of computers increased from 2010 to 2011 which was well after tablets and smartphones were introduced,
Originally posted by laokoko ya I purposebly bought a pc with windows 7 because many things isn't compatible with windows 8. which don't make sense. why isn't thing run on windows 7 run on windows 8
Been running Windows 8 for months and NEVER had anything fail to run. I use my PC all day long, every day. Would really like to know what people are talking about when they say this.
In fact, I saw a noticeable performance increase in most of my games of roughly 20% (just a guess).
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by Arclan I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share. /sarcasm off
Many companies in the cell phone market are barely breaking even and some are losing money. Apple has 8.7% of the market share yet they take home a large share of the profit. I wouldn't count them out so soon.
Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Quizzical
I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.
This right here. I have Win8, but it's not that big of a difference over Win7 apart from the attempt to market their start screen to touch-screeners. I think Samsung and the rest are up shit creek for a different reason.
That's more true for home users, but for me, and what I do at work having Win8 would be a huge improvement over Win7. My Win8 desktop at home has the same apps and developer programs my Win7 desktop at work does, but the entire experience is more efficient for me.
The Start Menu is awesome in Win8 as I can customize the apps I use often and arrange them how I need them. The file explorer with the ribbon is a huge improvement if you do a lot of file work. The vpn, network, and taks manager tools are pretty slick too. In all the entire system is just better, but it's not so much better that many people would find a reason to upgrade. However, it's not a reason that one wouldn't want it on a new system.
One problem is that it's cool to be overly critical of anything Microsoft does. It's very hipster to bash and hate them. Look at all the stupid gamer blogs that talked a bunch of stupid trash about lock-outs and Win 8 being the end of open gaming. It was all about looking cool and authorative and to generate "me too" clicks and not about the platform strengths and weaknesses.
^This +1 for certain...
I now have a PC that I won't get rid of due to gaming. I have a MacBook Pro for everyday computing. Won't get rid of it due to versatility, mobility, full keyboard, etc. I have an iPad that combined with a slingbox pro, I won't get rid of because I watch more TV on it than on my TV. I have an iPhone and of course you need a phone, so that stays. And we can't forget the Playstaion 3 either... Low power consumption, low heat production gaming compared to my PC, and it plays Blue-ray. Don't forget the Apple TV for doing all of the above on the TV easily.
I believe that of all the above I listed, the PC will be the first to die. Exclusive titles and superior hardware are the only thing keeping it in my house. But superior hardware that you'll get in a PC just won't be needed in the near future as hardware tech further develops.
I've been a huge proponent of building your own PC. But hardware is quite advanced now. The PC I built a few years ago now with an i7 and ati 5870 is still really strong today. And if I wanted to upgrade it now, I couldn't.... Pcie 3.0 is out now, new socket architecture, etc. I can't even put forth the ability to upgrade argument for the PC anymore. It just isn't true anymore.
On top of all that the windows marketplace will NOT save PC gaming as I for one will NEVER use it. And with so many huge successes on other (typically mobile) platforms now, developers are eager to release on something other than or in addition to PC
Win8 definitely has looked like a failure.
Creating a mobile OS? Great idea. Mobile is going to be huge!
Forcing that mobile-designed OS to be your PC OS? Terrible idea.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!
Sent from my iPad.