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Identity Crisis

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  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

    It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

    What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

    Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • RukushinRukushin Jackson, NJPosts: 82Member Common
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

    It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

    What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

    Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

    I think he means that because we are about 2 years since Skyrim came out and 4.5 years is the average time between titles that it stands to reason in another 2 years Bethesda will come out with their own Elder Scrolls VI about a year or so after Zenimax launches TESO.

    All I can say is if TESO happened to flop or even not do as well as the couple million sales that Skyrim had, it would be pretty funny to see Bethesda slap Zenimax in the face for staining their IP by introducing small 3-5 man multiplayer in Elder Scrolls VI. Even if it was only multiplayer by LANing up physically.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,572Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rukushin
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

    It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

    What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

    Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

    I think he means that because we are about 2 years since Skyrim came out and 4.5 years is the average time between titles that it stands to reason in another 2 years Bethesda will come out with their own Elder Scrolls VI about a year or so after Zenimax launches TESO.

    All I can say is if TESO happened to flop or even not do as well as the couple million sales that Skyrim had, it would be pretty funny to see Bethesda slap Zenimax in the face for staining their IP by introducing small 3-5 man multiplayer in Elder Scrolls VI. Even if it was only multiplayer by LANing up physically.

    Seeing as the latest TES game(Skyrim) was basically a console game, and console sales outweighted PC sales by a huge margin, I'd be more inclined to think we will be seeing split screen play before Bethesda implements LAN support.

    image
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It seems to me, and a lot of other people too, that TESO is not a true successor to TES

    I really hope is not ... otherwise would not even bother to follow. As it stands, for sure will buy and play.

    I don't think it was even meant to be a true successor of TES series. Op and others although are free to feel disappointed on basis of their own misplaced expectations regarding what TESO is or is not meant to be.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
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  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,142Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    It seems to me, and a lot of other people too, that TESO is not a true successor to TES

    I really hope is not ... otherwise would not even bother to follow. As it stands, for sure will buy and play.

    Your logic is...bizarre!

    Not really, I meant in sense what TES also was/is: big world of ... nothing. Every half hour some beast by mistake there. Where is same epic fight trying to kill simple rat or orc and all this at any given level. All avatars like have eat wooden stick for breakfast. Etc, etc, ... I guess TESO will be nothing like TES only in this sense. :-) 

  • TuktzTuktz Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member

    I think a lot of what the TES fans don't like about TESO are the features that make it an mmo, and a lot of what the DAOC fans love about it, are the features that make it an MMO.

     

    DAOC fans will love it for the features they love from their beloved MMO (as well as features from other mmos, as well as some new ones).

     

    If TES fans really want a TES mmo, they should embrace the MMO features, not say it's betraying what made TES, TES. You do realize it's an MMO right? LOL

     

    MMO's are their own thing that have been around for a decade or two now.

     

    I kind of see this as plopping the TES IP into the MMO universe. We're not plopping MMO into the TES universe hehe.

     

    I'm just wondering, if TES players didn't play MMO's before, what makes them think they'll like an MMO now, just cause it has their favored IP. Was it the IP you loved, or the NON MMO mechanics/style you liked.

    It makes more sense to me to try to try to cater to a compromise of the two, not one or the other. Try to capture the TES fans that actually like MMO's, and try to capture the MMO fans that like the particular mmo features offered. 

     

    I kind of wonder for long time MMO players, if you're interested in this for the IP, or for the gameplay mechanics. I'm thinking the latter.

    image
    MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
    Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    I kind of wonder for long time MMO players, if you're interested in this for the IP, or for the gameplay mechanics. I'm thinking the latter.

    Im right down the middle. My fav RPG of all time has been TES, I have been playing it sinse it was a 8 bit game and I always played each game to death. Now the MMO fan in me has loved no MMO more then DAoC as some know from my posts on this forum. Now TES and DAoC having a baby could not make me happier. I think no two greater games could be brought together!!! 

    There is a couple things I would like to see done, remove players joining more then one guild. One of the biggest problems in GW2 right now and we need player housing/guild halls. Fix that and they can take my money now!!!!


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member
    Originally posted by walltar
    "TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.

    hahahahah! this, so true in statement.

    IDC if TESO is not going to have 100% of TES mechanics.As long as it has the feel,essence,and exploration that the TES games have. Thats whats important..The Essence.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by zaylin
    Originally posted by walltar
    "TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.

    hahahahah! this, so true in statement.

    IDC if TESO is not going to have 100% of TES mechanics.As long as it has the feel,essence,and exploration that the TES games have. Thats whats important..The Essence.

    I don't subscribe to the 'true successor' argument - I just believe they should have indeed paid more attention to the essence of TES in making this MMO.

    It wasn't, and isn't rocket science - marrying the things people love about TES with the things people love about DAoC and that style of PvP.

    However - clearly there are no 'rocket scientists' at Zenimax.

    This game will have some degree of success, I am sure.

    However - it could always have had far more with a design team more sympathetic to one of the most, if not the most significant customer bases - those already happy with the IP.

    They dropped free exploration as a choice, not by necessity, and I am certain it will cost them one way or another.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by zaylin
    Originally posted by walltar
    "TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.

    hahahahah! this, so true in statement.

    IDC if TESO is not going to have 100% of TES mechanics.As long as it has the feel,essence,and exploration that the TES games have. Thats whats important..The Essence.

    I don't subscribe to the 'true successor' argument - I just believe they should have indeed paid more attention to the essence of TES in making this MMO.

    It wasn't, and isn't rocket science - marrying the things people love about TES with the things people love about DAoC and that style of PvP.

    However - clearly there are no 'rocket scientists' at Zenimax.

    This game will have some degree of success, I am sure.

    However - it could always have had far more with a design team more sympathetic to one of the most, if not the most significant customer bases - those already happy with the IP.

    They dropped free exploration as a choice, not by necessity, and I am certain it will cost them one way or another.

    Despite the very limited info we have on watch features are in the game, what features do you think would have to have been added to make this close enough to the essence of TES for you to enjoy it? Is it just freedom between factions that has soured you, or are there a bevy of features that you think it's missing?

    If you've answered this in another post, I apologize. If that's the case, do you mind linking it? I just want to get a sense of how far away you think they are from getting it right.

  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by Tuktz
     

    I kind of see this as plopping the TES IP into the MMO universe. We're not plopping MMO into the TES universe hehe.

    I see it as more like plopping The Elder Scrolls IP into the Dark Age of Camelot Universe.

    3 Factions (Realms). Specific Races for each Faction. 3 segregated, locked and walled off PvE zones for each Faction. 1 central PvP zone with attackable keeps.

    Thats DAoC. No other MMO has that set-up (at least that I can think of off hand).

     

    Im sure there will be some elements of other standard Themepark MMOs with Quests (WoW), Soloable Personal Story (SWtOR), Mega-Server (STO), etc.

    But in a nutshell, ESO is a DAOC redux, except in Tamriel and not Mythical Europe

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Tuktz
     

    I kind of see this as plopping the TES IP into the MMO universe. We're not plopping MMO into the TES universe hehe.

    I see it as more like plopping The Elder Scrolls IP into the Dark Age of Camelot Universe.

    3 Factions (Realms). Specific Races for each Faction. 3 segregated, locked and walled off PvE zones for each Faction. 1 central PvP zone with attackable keeps.

    Thats DAoC. No other MMO has that set-up (at least that I can think of off hand).

     

    Im sure there will be some elements of other standard Themepark MMOs with Quests (WoW), Soloable Personal Story (SWtOR), Mega-Server (STO), etc.

    But in a nutshell, ESO is a DAOC redux, except in Tamriel and not Mythical Europe

    You are right its just a MMO model and they could have picked any that has done well over the past 15 years, WoW, Rifts, DAoC, LotR, EVE. IMO they could not have picked a better model. Its one that will net hard core PvP fans with the best of the best PvP system most talked about and loved in the MMO world but still give Pure PvE fans their own space to play and get mad because a PvPer is trying to force them to flag to kill them. WoW model has been reworked to death, its about time someone took on DAoC. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • CthulhuPuffsCthulhuPuffs Henderson, NVPosts: 363Member Common
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Tuktz
     

    I kind of see this as plopping the TES IP into the MMO universe. We're not plopping MMO into the TES universe hehe.

    I see it as more like plopping The Elder Scrolls IP into the Dark Age of Camelot Universe.

    3 Factions (Realms). Specific Races for each Faction. 3 segregated, locked and walled off PvE zones for each Faction. 1 central PvP zone with attackable keeps.

    Thats DAoC. No other MMO has that set-up (at least that I can think of off hand).

     

    Im sure there will be some elements of other standard Themepark MMOs with Quests (WoW), Soloable Personal Story (SWtOR), Mega-Server (STO), etc.

    But in a nutshell, ESO is a DAOC redux, except in Tamriel and not Mythical Europe

    You are right its just a MMO model and they could have picked any that has done well over the past 15 years, WoW, Rifts, DAoC, LotR, EVE. IMO they could not have picked a better model. Its one that will net hard core PvP fans with the best of the best PvP system most talked about and loved in the MMO world but still give Pure PvE fans their own space to play and get mad because a PvPer is trying to force them to flag to kill them. WoW model has been reworked to death, its about time someone took on DAoC. 

    Or they could have, oh I dont know, Innovated. Not reworked something, but created a MMO that was uniquely Elder Scrolls instead of copying some other model.

     

    Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

    Games Played: Too Many

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Well they took 3 things from daoc
    1 core server setup (but not coop and ffa servers)
    2 open dungeons
    3 equality of gear between pve/pvp & crafting, not your typical raiders first setup

    But there's stuff from daoc that's missing like alternate rule set servers & housing.

    And there's a ton of features that are decidedly not daoc - multiple shards of worlds zones, instanced dungeons, quest hubs, personal "you are the hero" story, instancing in general, action combat, weird multiple guild setup etc..
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    I see it as more like plopping The Elder Scrolls IP into the Dark Age of Camelot Universe.

    3 Factions (Realms). Specific Races for each Faction. 3 segregated, locked and walled off PvE zones for each Faction. 1 central PvP zone with attackable keeps.

    Thats DAoC. No other MMO has that set-up (at least that I can think of off hand).

     

    Im sure there will be some elements of other standard Themepark MMOs with Quests (WoW), Soloable Personal Story (SWtOR), Mega-Server (STO), etc.

    But in a nutshell, ESO is a DAOC redux, except in Tamriel and not Mythical Europe

    You are right its just a MMO model and they could have picked any that has done well over the past 15 years, WoW, Rifts, DAoC, LotR, EVE. IMO they could not have picked a better model. Its one that will net hard core PvP fans with the best of the best PvP system most talked about and loved in the MMO world but still give Pure PvE fans their own space to play and get mad because a PvPer is trying to force them to flag to kill them. WoW model has been reworked to death, its about time someone took on DAoC. 

    Or they could have, oh I dont know, Innovated. Not reworked something, but created a MMO that was uniquely Elder Scrolls instead of copying some other model.

     

    Everyone want to be a unique flower, been MMOing 15 years and the best of the best MMOs we have all came out 6 years ago or more. Sure we have come up with some great ideas like hubless questing system, VO story, fair play where 2 people not teamed can get rewarded for killing the same mob, player made content to name a few but then they try and mess with what worked.

    Old school sandbox, DAoC solid PvP system, vanilla WoW solid chars that felt right to play from the start and devs kept trying to find some other formual that worked. Its like Coke, they keep messing with it and sale go down and then they come back out with classic Coke and it does well again.

    For 10 years people, even Mythic, have been messing with the DAoC model to try and make it better and keep failing. ESO is following the model almost to the letter and the first MMO to try that sinse DAoC came out. I take Classic Coke any day!!! I know it works and gives PvP nutters their play space and PvE nutters theirs. Its the gold standard every PvP MMO has been judged by for 10 years. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It's not following daoc to the letter

    1 daoc had ZERO INSTANCING until catacombs
    2 this game is heavily instanced from the start, multiple instancing of world zones, personal story instances, instanced dungeons, multiple instances of the pvp zone etc..

    That's one major big difference right there.

    Then you add this megaserver bobbins, no housing, no ffa & coop servers etc..

    It's not a daoc clone, it takes some things from daoc, but it also takes a bunch of crap from wow / swtor / tsw too.
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by walltar
    "TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.

    x2

     

    People need to stop complaining about this.  They never claimed it was going to be multiplayer elder scrolls.  It's an MMO set in the elder scrolls universe.  Move on already.

    You make me like charity

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's not following daoc to the letter

    1 daoc had ZERO INSTANCING until catacombs
    2 this game is heavily instanced from the start, multiple instancing of world zones, personal story instances, instanced dungeons, multiple instances of the pvp zone etc..

    That's one major big difference right there.

    Then you add this megaserver bobbins, no housing, no ffa & coop servers etc..

    It's not a daoc clone, it takes some things from daoc, but it also takes a bunch of crap from wow / swtor / tsw too.

    Not talking the whole game, just the PvP side of it. No instances in the AvA map. 3 faction war at its best and all PvP focuse on the AvA map, not spread all over the PvE map. Also they have instanced and open world dungeons on a side note. But everything that made RvR awesome right down to the dungeon we used to fight over by who was winning RvR is in ESO.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's not following daoc to the letter

    1 daoc had ZERO INSTANCING until catacombs
    2 this game is heavily instanced from the start, multiple instancing of world zones, personal story instances, instanced dungeons, multiple instances of the pvp zone etc..

    That's one major big difference right there.

    Then you add this megaserver bobbins, no housing, no ffa & coop servers etc..

    It's not a daoc clone, it takes some things from daoc, but it also takes a bunch of crap from wow / swtor / tsw too.

    Not talking the whole game, just the PvP side of it. No instances in the AvA map. 3 faction war at its best and all PvP focuse on the AvA map, not spread all over the PvE map. Also they have instanced and open world dungeons on a side note. But everything that made RvR awesome right down to the dungeon we used to fight over by who was winning RvR is in ESO.

    theres no Darkness Falls, you are mistaken.

    there are several open dungeons dotted about cyrodil though

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

     

    Here's my understanding:

    1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

    2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

    3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

    4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

    point 3 you are mistaken

    you can swap campaigns by taking an aliance point penalty.  Its a discourager, but its hardly the same as being forced to reroll.  You can also guest on a "friends" campaign - e.g. that guy whos on a server where your faction is a zerg machine

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's not following daoc to the letter

    1 daoc had ZERO INSTANCING until catacombs
    2 this game is heavily instanced from the start, multiple instancing of world zones, personal story instances, instanced dungeons, multiple instances of the pvp zone etc..

    That's one major big difference right there.

    Then you add this megaserver bobbins, no housing, no ffa & coop servers etc..

    It's not a daoc clone, it takes some things from daoc, but it also takes a bunch of crap from wow / swtor / tsw too.

    Not talking the whole game, just the PvP side of it. No instances in the AvA map. 3 faction war at its best and all PvP focuse on the AvA map, not spread all over the PvE map. Also they have instanced and open world dungeons on a side note. But everything that made RvR awesome right down to the dungeon we used to fight over by who was winning RvR is in ESO.

    theres no Darkness Falls, you are mistaken.

    there are several open dungeons dotted about cyrodil though

    ya must have missed this... HERE


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    It's not following daoc to the letter

    1 daoc had ZERO INSTANCING until catacombs
    2 this game is heavily instanced from the start, multiple instancing of world zones, personal story instances, instanced dungeons, multiple instances of the pvp zone etc..

    That's one major big difference right there.

    Then you add this megaserver bobbins, no housing, no ffa & coop servers etc..

    It's not a daoc clone, it takes some things from daoc, but it also takes a bunch of crap from wow / swtor / tsw too.

    Not talking the whole game, just the PvP side of it. No instances in the AvA map. 3 faction war at its best and all PvP focuse on the AvA map, not spread all over the PvE map. Also they have instanced and open world dungeons on a side note. But everything that made RvR awesome right down to the dungeon we used to fight over by who was winning RvR is in ESO.

    theres no Darkness Falls, you are mistaken.

    there are several open dungeons dotted about cyrodil though

    ya must have missed this... HERE

    thats an articel by a mmorpg writer about what they think COULD make AVA great.  Its not an interview with a TESO dev.  Its a specualtion / wish list article.

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon

    Pointless debates that go absolutely nowhere. Look you can argue all day and night for the next 20 years about this, all that you people should be more concerned with, is if the game is an indepth, descent MMO.

    How many absolutely shitty MMO's have you all been playing in the last 13 years? At this point who gives a f? Whats more inportant is if it is any good or not. We have not seen a good MMO in almost 14 years.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    ya must have missed this... HERE

    thats an articel by a mmorpg writer about what they think COULD make AVA great.  Its not an interview with a TESO dev.  Its a specualtion / wish list article.

    Your right, I missread that.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trash656

    Look at all of you, 30 pages of arguing about if this game is a True TES game or not. Who cares, all that you people should be more concerned with, is if the game is if the game is an indepth, descent MMO.

    How many absolutely shitty MMO's have we been playing in the last 13 years? At this point who cares, all that we need is a good indepth MMO like the old days.

    Only reason I keep posting is because I am sick of MMOers two sided bashing. Every PvP MMO to come out in the past 10 years has all been compaired to DAoC and told off for not doing 3 faction RvR. We get that and we bash the devs. We ask for old school features to be brought back and when we get open world dungeons and old school 3 faction RvR, again we bash. We really are a hard bunch to please. As for indepth MMO like the old days... HERE HERE!!! I really hope ESO can bring that as I am sick of 3-6 month MMO stops because of shallow waters. Time devs spent as much time polishing the game and working on the elder game as they do just building the MMO.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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