Originally posted by Mardukk None of these lifted restrictions will help me to log in and play my max lvl toon. The system was already good enough for alts so...this isn't really much news to get excited about.
Maybe it isn't for you, but I am sure that being able to play all classes and races (instead of just 4) is a big victory for f2pers and silver accounts....I know I will be logging in next week to make some new alts.
If you are on a max level toon with uber gear and spells maybe you should pay a sub every now and then. The Free to Cry gamers are really starting to get old. It costs money to live on planet Earth, get with it or gtfo.
I am not sure why they just don't make things purchasable instead of trying to push the sub. To me that is the biggest problem with the f2p model. I would be happy to pay for access to several things, but if i am going to sub it will be a different game.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
EQs only spell restriction is you cant use rank 2s and 3s as a free player that has a very small effect on your character. The item restrctions are limited with the new expansion you can camp or buy tradeable gear in the bazaar that has the best stats for groupers or close to it. You want to raid in EQ ? Sub or buy a krono for 250k in the bazaar.
Not sure why people panicked at the idea of perma-death in EQN. Done right, it can add meaning to the game world and game play. Check out the explanation given by the developers in Trials of Ascension as to why that game will have perma-death (which in their case means your character gets 100 regular deaths before PD kicks in).
MMO's have become no-consequence Candylands where everyone gets the Grand Prize just for showing up. *zzzzzzzz*
Maybe Smed was bringing that up in hopes to get the reaction like he did plus to kind of show a bit of the mentality that's going into EQN. Going to be more unforgiving than the recent few years worth of games. One can hope at least, right?
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
Not sure why people panicked at the idea of perma-death in EQN. Done right, it can add meaning to the game world and game play. Check out the explanation given by the developers in Trials of Ascension as to why that game will have perma-death (which in their case means your character gets 100 regular deaths before PD kicks in).
MMO's have become no-consequence Candylands where everyone gets the Grand Prize just for showing up. *zzzzzzzz*
Because , despite the fact that most of the commentors here say they want something new and different, they're so trapped in the existing game systems that they cannot imagine enjoying anything new.
Well I glady pay the 15 bucks a month for the gold subscription, I raid so I need fabled, and legendary and masters. However I got to say this is one step to them almost going total free to play/cart blaunch, and I will say some of the subscribers were screaming in 1-9 chat about it today. It got down right nasty on guk for a short bit. It is not being recieved well by the gold memembers.
Not sure why people panicked at the idea of perma-death in EQN. Done right, it can add meaning to the game world and game play. Check out the explanation given by the developers in Trials of Ascension as to why that game will have perma-death (which in their case means your character gets 100 regular deaths before PD kicks in).
MMO's have become no-consequence Candylands where everyone gets the Grand Prize just for showing up. *zzzzzzzz*
Because permadeath is idiotic in a genre that is designed around people playing long term. Building a character long term only to have it die off would make people quit immediately and never come back again.
Permadeath is for games without long term character growth. Im sure theres an ultra-niche audience out there for it somewhere, but making an EQ game that would alienate 99.99% of people that enjoyed EQ1 and 2 would just be idiotic.
Now a permadeath server, thats a different story. I could see people using it as a side thing. but to have your main character able to die? Long term subscriber/player suicide.
Other newer games have moved to F2P or B2P that are far less restrictive and people were sick of our shit, even though our games are fairly good quality.
So we were pretty much forced to lower the F2P restrictions.
To people crying about there still being some restrictios in game.. well they still gotta make money on it.. If you want them then sub up or whatever you do to get them..
Not sure why people panicked at the idea of perma-death in EQN. Done right, it can add meaning to the game world and game play. Check out the explanation given by the developers in Trials of Ascension as to why that game will have perma-death (which in their case means your character gets 100 regular deaths before PD kicks in).
MMO's have become no-consequence Candylands where everyone gets the Grand Prize just for showing up. *zzzzzzzz*
Because permadeath is idiotic in a genre that is designed around people playing long term. Building a character long term only to have it die off would make people quit immediately and never come back again.
Permadeath is for games without long term character growth. Im sure theres an ultra-niche audience out there for it somewhere, but making an EQ game that would alienate 99.99% of people that enjoyed EQ1 and 2 would just be idiotic.
Now a permadeath server, thats a different story. I could see people using it as a side thing. but to have your main character able to die? Long term subscriber/player suicide.
Those reasons are more related to marketing and subscriber retention. That does not make what you say wrong - companies do need to make money. But will most people really stop playing games that have meaningful risk and loss? Must all MMOs be driven solely by a Treadmill mentality, whereby each and every design decision is there to keep people chasing the wedge of cheese? I think we are selling ourselves short.
Just one key example - item decay and item loss. Why is this so feared? That is because nearly all MMO are item-driven. Items define your characters advancement, quest rewards, crafting system, etc. Leveling isn't important anymore. It is getting the Sword Of The Ages or that set of elite armor (inevitably gained by grinding the same end-game instances 100 times over). But what if items are made so they are NOT that crucial? What if what mattered was what your character did to affect the game world, especially in a lasting way?
No one remembers what the name was of Alexander the Great's sword or what tier his set of armor was. They remember what Alexander did and said. And the legacy he left when he died. Contrast that with MMO where the man is made great by the stuff he owns/wears.
Perma-death is not a be-all, end-all. But, like item decay, I think it is a move in a positive direction if done right. Again, check out the Trials of Ascension website for a better description of this than I can give.
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
Gear
Weapons
Currency
Ammo
Skills
Bags
The whole F2P theme is a scam and only those who trully play the games and use the cash stores to get thier unlocks and xp buffs/potions know this one truth:
F2P is more expensive than a sub based game at 15 bucks a month.
Its a nice lil scam that the gimme generation falls into with every new themepark game. 7-10 Million players pay Blizzard 15 bucks a month and enjoy the game. They can buy the vanity fluff crap mountsor stuffed animals off the Blizz store at thier leisure but nothing in the game is restrictive.
This EQ-EQ2 BS announcement is still a lame duck but now its in a neck brace for greed impact whiplash.
P2W games like Tera are far worse but at least the devs of those games are openly stating they want your cash to whip more backsides. These companies who claim their game is free to play and lock in a butt load of restrictions are bold faced liars. its only free to play if you are content to be the loser with none of the nice gear / upgrades. I hate to say it like that but its what the players think and how it feels when you play a game like STO and see the Zstore ships and they are pulverizing everyone else out there with thier multi buff consoles.. in some cases 3 of them... I should know.. i have several of those ships including the Andorian ships with 5 fore weapon slots that give me a huge advantage over others..
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
i agree EQ2 is a freemium game and not truely ftp
once you hit DOV content or Chains of Eternity:
you are forced to pay for gear, there is no treasured gear
but thats still 90 levels of content where gear wont matter much -- PreDOV expansion
DJMantiss How is eq2 not worth a sub? It is packed with content and immersive worlds. Ihave played and play many mmo's and everquest is by far the most well thought out and deep game i have ever played -period
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
i agree EQ2 is a freemium game and not truely ftp
once you hit DOV content or Chains of Eternity:
you are forced to pay for gear, there is no treasured gear
but thats still 90 levels of content where gear wont matter much -- PreDOV expansion
And that 90 levels has significantly more content than all other MMORPGs released in the last 10 years. And there are guilds that work through it.
The thing that most people dont seem to understand though, is the enormous effect that the gear restriction removal would have on SoE's EQ2 revenue. It would absolutely cripple it. Because the vast majority of the games population that pays 12-15 a month would unsub.
I personally see no issue with not letting level 90+ people play for free. (which they technically can with kronos anyway).
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
i agree EQ2 is a freemium game and not truely ftp
once you hit DOV content or Chains of Eternity:
you are forced to pay for gear, there is no treasured gear
but thats still 90 levels of content where gear wont matter much -- PreDOV expansion
And that 90 levels has significantly more content than all other MMORPGs released in the last 10 years. And there are guilds that work through it.
The thing that most people dont seem to understand though, is the enormous effect that the gear restriction removal would have on SoE's EQ2 revenue. It would absolutely cripple it. Because the vast majority of the games population that pays 12-15 a month would unsub.
I personally see no issue with not letting level 90+ people play for free. (which they technically can with kronos anyway).
True. There seem to be a lot of people here who act as if having any sort of revenue stream is somehow duping the players.
It is simple math; if they drop the sub; they have to generate that income in a different way. So far, many act as if that 'different way' is a scam; and here with EQ2 we have one of the least restrictive models on the market.....
I mean how conditioned are some of you to look for evil behind every door - to scream, 'foul' at the announcement of MORE access for free? They've lessened the restrictions - IT's A SCAM.
so how do you folks who act as if this is some greed conspiracy propose they generate revenue to maintain the game?
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
i agree EQ2 is a freemium game and not truely ftp
once you hit DOV content or Chains of Eternity:
you are forced to pay for gear, there is no treasured gear
but thats still 90 levels of content where gear wont matter much -- PreDOV expansion
And that 90 levels has significantly more content than all other MMORPGs released in the last 10 years. And there are guilds that work through it.
The thing that most people dont seem to understand though, is the enormous effect that the gear restriction removal would have on SoE's EQ2 revenue. It would absolutely cripple it. Because the vast majority of the games population that pays 12-15 a month would unsub.
I personally see no issue with not letting level 90+ people play for free. (which they technically can with kronos anyway).
True. There seem to be a lot of people here who act as if having any sort of revenue stream is somehow duping the players.
It is simple math; if they drop the sub; they have to generate that income in a different way. So far, many act as if that 'different way' is a scam; and here with EQ2 we have one of the least restrictive models on the market.....
I mean how conditioned are some of you to look for evil behind every door - to scream, 'foul' at the announcement of MORE access for free? They've lessened the restrictions - IT's A SCAM.
so how do you folks who act as if this is some greed conspiracy propose they generate revenue to maintain the game?
Remember - the sub model failed them.
The sub model didnt fail them, the Devs failed and the players recognized it.. EQ was a great game until they started releaseing far too many expansions and making players get ticked because all the work they had put into getting gear was a waste of time...
Now dont get me wrong Games have to evolve or they lose thier player base.. however, World of Warcraft has had 4 expansions in a 9 year period and managed to maintain its multi million player subscription Base. Why?
Because they didnt overwhelm the players with 10+ crappy content epansions. They took the time to make quality conent and story lines, they stuck with the lore and introduced new continents and player races. Blizzard may be many things seel outs to Activision, content nerfing fools, or ignoring the player base but they stayed true to the game and limited the content releases so that players could enjoy them.
EQ and EQ2 have left players angry due to the massive number of expansions then making it go f2p because they made the players angry and leave.. only to lock content that in other games players get by default.
You want a beautiful example of what a f2p game should be? Star Citizen.. no gear, no ships, no buffs, no content lockouts.. only thing you can buy on the cstore for this future game is currency for those who are in a rush and dont feel like taking the time to build up the currency. That is an intelligent and player friendly way to generate a cash store that doesnt limit players in game content or game play.However for those who choose to work for thier currency they would never have to use the cstore so it would have no effect on the mainstream player base.
The sub model didnt fail them, the Devs failed and the players recognized it.. EQ was a great game until they started releaseing far too many expansions and making players get ticked because all the work they had put into getting gear was a waste of time...
Now dont get me wrong Games have to evolve or they lose thier player base.. however, World of Warcraft has had 4 expansions in a 9 year period and managed to maintain its multi million player subscription Base. Why?
Everquest did fine maintaining its sub base for the first 5 years and was the most popular Western mmo until WOW
when EQ had expansions
it wasnt gear chasing each expansion but SOE did throw too much paid content at players too soon
unlike WOW, during EQs first 5 years
- EQ did not raise the level cap every expansion
- EQ offered new content for all levels -- 1 to 60 -- in 2 expansions, Kunark and Luclin
I think these new changes are very helpful. For new players to try the game, having limited bag slots and not being able to choose any class or race are turn-offs. So now you can try the game and play for free even better but you will have to start paying at some point as you get deeper into the game, which is fair for everyone.
Comments
Maybe it isn't for you, but I am sure that being able to play all classes and races (instead of just 4) is a big victory for f2pers and silver accounts....I know I will be logging in next week to make some new alts.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
EQs only spell restriction is you cant use rank 2s and 3s as a free player that has a very small effect on your character. The item restrctions are limited with the new expansion you can camp or buy tradeable gear in the bazaar that has the best stats for groupers or close to it. You want to raid in EQ ? Sub or buy a krono for 250k in the bazaar.
The biggest effect on EQ is the AA llimit of 1k.
Not sure why people panicked at the idea of perma-death in EQN. Done right, it can add meaning to the game world and game play. Check out the explanation given by the developers in Trials of Ascension as to why that game will have perma-death (which in their case means your character gets 100 regular deaths before PD kicks in).
MMO's have become no-consequence Candylands where everyone gets the Grand Prize just for showing up. *zzzzzzzz*
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
Because , despite the fact that most of the commentors here say they want something new and different, they're so trapped in the existing game systems that they cannot imagine enjoying anything new.
Well I glady pay the 15 bucks a month for the gold subscription, I raid so I need fabled, and legendary and masters. However I got to say this is one step to them almost going total free to play/cart blaunch, and I will say some of the subscribers were screaming in 1-9 chat about it today. It got down right nasty on guk for a short bit. It is not being recieved well by the gold memembers.
Because permadeath is idiotic in a genre that is designed around people playing long term. Building a character long term only to have it die off would make people quit immediately and never come back again.
Permadeath is for games without long term character growth. Im sure theres an ultra-niche audience out there for it somewhere, but making an EQ game that would alienate 99.99% of people that enjoyed EQ1 and 2 would just be idiotic.
Now a permadeath server, thats a different story. I could see people using it as a side thing. but to have your main character able to die? Long term subscriber/player suicide.
Read:
Other newer games have moved to F2P or B2P that are far less restrictive and people were sick of our shit, even though our games are fairly good quality.
So we were pretty much forced to lower the F2P restrictions.
Yeah, while the unlockers are cheap, they already have enough vanity items to milk, rather than doing the gear unlock route.
nice of them to lift those restrictions..
To people crying about there still being some restrictios in game.. well they still gotta make money on it.. If you want them then sub up or whatever you do to get them..
Those reasons are more related to marketing and subscriber retention. That does not make what you say wrong - companies do need to make money. But will most people really stop playing games that have meaningful risk and loss? Must all MMOs be driven solely by a Treadmill mentality, whereby each and every design decision is there to keep people chasing the wedge of cheese? I think we are selling ourselves short.
Just one key example - item decay and item loss. Why is this so feared? That is because nearly all MMO are item-driven. Items define your characters advancement, quest rewards, crafting system, etc. Leveling isn't important anymore. It is getting the Sword Of The Ages or that set of elite armor (inevitably gained by grinding the same end-game instances 100 times over). But what if items are made so they are NOT that crucial? What if what mattered was what your character did to affect the game world, especially in a lasting way?
No one remembers what the name was of Alexander the Great's sword or what tier his set of armor was. They remember what Alexander did and said. And the legacy he left when he died. Contrast that with MMO where the man is made great by the stuff he owns/wears.
Perma-death is not a be-all, end-all. But, like item decay, I think it is a move in a positive direction if done right. Again, check out the Trials of Ascension website for a better description of this than I can give.
I find all this f2p crap lame.. its not trully f2p. I have yet to find an MMO that you can play for free that doesnt have a cash store that limits you on any of the following:
Gear
Weapons
Currency
Ammo
Skills
Bags
The whole F2P theme is a scam and only those who trully play the games and use the cash stores to get thier unlocks and xp buffs/potions know this one truth:
F2P is more expensive than a sub based game at 15 bucks a month.
Its a nice lil scam that the gimme generation falls into with every new themepark game. 7-10 Million players pay Blizzard 15 bucks a month and enjoy the game. They can buy the vanity fluff crap mountsor stuffed animals off the Blizz store at thier leisure but nothing in the game is restrictive.
This EQ-EQ2 BS announcement is still a lame duck but now its in a neck brace for greed impact whiplash.
P2W games like Tera are far worse but at least the devs of those games are openly stating they want your cash to whip more backsides. These companies who claim their game is free to play and lock in a butt load of restrictions are bold faced liars. its only free to play if you are content to be the loser with none of the nice gear / upgrades. I hate to say it like that but its what the players think and how it feels when you play a game like STO and see the Zstore ships and they are pulverizing everyone else out there with thier multi buff consoles.. in some cases 3 of them... I should know.. i have several of those ships including the Andorian ships with 5 fore weapon slots that give me a huge advantage over others..
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
i agree EQ2 is a freemium game and not truely ftp
once you hit DOV content or Chains of Eternity:
you are forced to pay for gear, there is no treasured gear
but thats still 90 levels of content where gear wont matter much -- PreDOV expansion
EQ2 fan sites
And that 90 levels has significantly more content than all other MMORPGs released in the last 10 years. And there are guilds that work through it.
The thing that most people dont seem to understand though, is the enormous effect that the gear restriction removal would have on SoE's EQ2 revenue. It would absolutely cripple it. Because the vast majority of the games population that pays 12-15 a month would unsub.
I personally see no issue with not letting level 90+ people play for free. (which they technically can with kronos anyway).
True. There seem to be a lot of people here who act as if having any sort of revenue stream is somehow duping the players.
It is simple math; if they drop the sub; they have to generate that income in a different way. So far, many act as if that 'different way' is a scam; and here with EQ2 we have one of the least restrictive models on the market.....
I mean how conditioned are some of you to look for evil behind every door - to scream, 'foul' at the announcement of MORE access for free? They've lessened the restrictions - IT's A SCAM.
so how do you folks who act as if this is some greed conspiracy propose they generate revenue to maintain the game?
Remember - the sub model failed them.
The sub model didnt fail them, the Devs failed and the players recognized it.. EQ was a great game until they started releaseing far too many expansions and making players get ticked because all the work they had put into getting gear was a waste of time...
Now dont get me wrong Games have to evolve or they lose thier player base.. however, World of Warcraft has had 4 expansions in a 9 year period and managed to maintain its multi million player subscription Base. Why?
Because they didnt overwhelm the players with 10+ crappy content epansions. They took the time to make quality conent and story lines, they stuck with the lore and introduced new continents and player races. Blizzard may be many things seel outs to Activision, content nerfing fools, or ignoring the player base but they stayed true to the game and limited the content releases so that players could enjoy them.
EQ and EQ2 have left players angry due to the massive number of expansions then making it go f2p because they made the players angry and leave.. only to lock content that in other games players get by default.
You want a beautiful example of what a f2p game should be? Star Citizen.. no gear, no ships, no buffs, no content lockouts.. only thing you can buy on the cstore for this future game is currency for those who are in a rush and dont feel like taking the time to build up the currency. That is an intelligent and player friendly way to generate a cash store that doesnt limit players in game content or game play.However for those who choose to work for thier currency they would never have to use the cstore so it would have no effect on the mainstream player base.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Everquest did fine maintaining its sub base for the first 5 years and was the most popular Western mmo until WOW
when EQ had expansions
it wasnt gear chasing each expansion but SOE did throw too much paid content at players too soon
unlike WOW, during EQs first 5 years
- EQ did not raise the level cap every expansion
- EQ offered new content for all levels -- 1 to 60 -- in 2 expansions, Kunark and Luclin
EQ2 fan sites