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Fluff and housing is lost

TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

Most older MMOs had pretty much fluff and pretty advance form of housing such as UO, SWG and alike.

How come these things are not important anymore as it used to be?

Endgame for some are raids for pretty snowflakes while others treasure a nice looking home decorated from floor to sealing with a nice looking garden with trophies collected during your travels.

I am talking about games that is new not old ones like Vanguard,EQ2 and alike and yes I know about RIFT effort in doing it and I do find that fun that some tries to breath some light to this forgotten aspect in a game.

Look at NWN,TESO,GW2,TOR(yes tor has some of it not all)

We need more fluff, housing,cloathing,games, fishing, hunting, anything that will not include killing mobs.

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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Comments

  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEPosts: 225Member Uncommon
    Well, I think they are important, but they are helluva a lot harder to do in 3D than they were in 2D (or 2.5D).

    Top Games Played in 2015: World of Tanks, Tera, World of Warships

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by BitterClinger
    Well, I think they are important, but they are helluva a lot harder to do in 3D than they were in 2D (or 2.5D).

    why?

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    I don't get it myself.  I used to spend hours decorating and rearranging furniture in my mog house in FFXI.

     

    We need more non-combat content and housing seems to me the easiest way to achieve that.  

  • cylon8cylon8 lodi, NJPosts: 334Member Uncommon
    come join us in free realms, indepth housing crafting fishing minigames world exploration varies jobs to level pets etc

    so say we all

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by cylon8
    come join us in free realms, indepth housing crafting fishing minigames world exploration varies jobs to level pets etc

     

    Is it a new game or is a game that release soon?

    I hope you get my point.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    Housing and fluff are making a return over this coming year. FFXIV and Wildstar both feature housing and it's a safe bet to assume EQ:N will as well. FFXIV is also to feature chocobo raising.

    I actually blame the singleminded focus on combat for much of the trouble with MMOs becoming boring so quickly lately. Non-combat systems like housing give players an open-ended system to spend time on and become more invested in the game and its world. All the games that have held my attention for long periods of time have had housing systems.

    I'd like to see a return of the EQ-style fluff abilities as well; skills that had no real combat use but allowed you to do interesting things, like the shapeshifting skills and different 'vision' abilities.

  • SalengerSalenger Pottageville, ONPosts: 521Member

    Just to list a few games you might like that have these options but also carry open world pvp anf full loot, which is not for everyone.

    Mortal Online (build your own house, workshop, etc.  Fish, hunt, mine etc)

    Xyson  ( do whatever you like)

    Istaria (great crafting, housing, city building)

    Darkfall (dominantly PVP based but has fishing, hunting and housing)

    Perpetuum (nice sandbox with player owned stations)

     

    But i think the game you want to play when it someday comes to North America is Arche Age.

     

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,658Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by BitterClinger
    Well, I think they are important, but they are helluva a lot harder to do in 3D than they were in 2D (or 2.5D).

    why?

    They tend to consume a lot more resources. A model and textures, especially with today's multilayer stuff, take up a lot more memory and processing than a flat sprite.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RaunuRaunu Lewisburg, PAPosts: 483Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

    I don't really agree with this entire post. Of course the combat needs to be polished and such, but non-combat fun is also very important to players.

    - - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim

    Most older MMOs had pretty much fluff and pretty advance form of housing such as UO, SWG and alike.

    How come these things are not important anymore as it used to be?

    Endgame for some are raids for pretty snowflakes while others treasure a nice looking home decorated from floor to sealing with a nice looking garden with trophies collected during your travels.

    I am talking about games that is new not old ones like Vanguard,EQ2 and alike and yes I know about RIFT effort in doing it and I do find that fun that some tries to breath some light to this forgotten aspect in a game.

    Look at NWN,TESO,GW2,TOR(yes tor has some of it not all)

    We need more fluff, housing,cloathing,games, fishing, hunting, anything that will not include killing mobs.

     

     Most older MMO's did not have housing.  Housing has always been rare. 

    They all have fluff, old and new.

    But yes we could always use more.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

    Combat might sell boxes but alone it's clearly done an abysmal job of retaining players. Giving players alternatives to constantly fighting makes them much less likely to burn out on the game, and systems like housing are open ended meaning that once they're in it takes very few developer resources to keep it fresh (just need to add a few new housing objects every now and then).

    Your post sounds more like an 'I don't like it so no one else can have it' attitude. Judging by the slew of games on the way featuring housing I think it could be argued that devs actually think it will sell now.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member

    I LOVE fluff in MMOs. Without fluff, I don't get immersed, and if I don't get immersed I won't play for long.

    Fluff is also love for detail, which is sorely missing in newer MMOs

    Fluff is VITAL

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    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
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  • aries623aries623 Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 28Member
    I have always viewed MMO's as online worlds. Worlds like Brittania, where you could have a house to put your trophies and other items to show off, but you still spent a lot of time in the world exploring. But over the years MMO's have turned into nothing more but RPG's that you play with other people until you get to the end of the game then your done, and move onto the next. I would rather play in a world that is a place I can get lost in, own a home, make some things, go out and explore.  But thats just me.
  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member
    The NAO generation is like a plague of locusts consuming MMOs quickly then moving on to the next short-lived feast. Guess which gamers the developers of today cater to.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    Originally posted by Zekiah
    The NAO generation is like a plague of locusts consuming MMOs quickly then moving on to the next short-lived feast. Guess which gamers the developers of today cater to.

    That's the irony though; extensive open-ended features like housing would actually make those players less likely to move on so soon as it's not the sort of thing that can be 'finished'. The solution to the 'content locust' plague is actually to offer them open systems that can't be completed. When there's no end in sight there's less compulsion to run through it as fast as you can.

  • BarachielBarachiel Christiansburg, VAPosts: 10Member
    I agree with the OP completely.  The games I've found myself coming back to the most are the ones with the best fluff.  SWG was a second home for me.  EQ2 keeps luring me back, despite my dislike of its graphics and quest design.  STO has slowly been rising back to my attention due to all the little things I can do in it now besides just blow crap up.
  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,551Member Uncommon
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


    I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

     

    Yea you're right.  Because the Sims wasn't one of the best selling games of all time.   A game that was nearly entirely nothing but fluff, housing, etc.    Woops. 

     

    Your point is now dead.  You're welcome. 

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    Originally posted by Aeolyn
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


    I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

    Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by Zekiah
    The NAO generation is like a plague of locusts consuming MMOs quickly then moving on to the next short-lived feast. Guess which gamers the developers of today cater to.

    That's the irony though; extensive open-ended features like housing would actually make those players less likely to move on so soon as it's not the sort of thing that can be 'finished'. The solution to the 'content locust' plague is actually to offer them open systems that can't be completed. When there's no end in sight there's less compulsion to run through it as fast as you can.

    Its not ironic because it does not happen. Those who actually enjoy that type of gameplay as their main form of entertainment are the huge minority, and always have been. Even in UO and SWG. If it were not the case then there would have been noticable uptick in their sub numbers after WoW launched instead of the massive fall off that never came even close to returning.

    Originally posted by Corehaven
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

     

    Yea you're right.  Because the Sims wasn't one of the best selling games of all time.   A game that was nearly entirely nothing but fluff, housing, etc.    Woops. 

     

    Your point is now dead.  You're welcome. 

    Sure it is, just like every single game ever should become Minecraft right? Generally speaking those who go to mmorpgs are not actively looking for that type of gameplay. Its much the same reason why generally sandbox games do not do well. With computer use suplanting tv usage many mmos are filling that same niche. Ie sitcoms. Its a large part of the reason why WoW has grown in the way it has, and maintained the subs that it does. Not to say that there are not players looking for other kinds of entertainment, nor that those forms of entertainment should be catered to in one form or another, merely that expecting every single game that comes out to be your next paradise is stupid when you consider just how expensive and difficult it is to get many of them going.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by Aeolyn
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


    I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

    Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

    Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by Aeolyn
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


    I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

    Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

    Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

    You proved his point nicely there Jim.    Well done!

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by Alberel
    Originally posted by Aeolyn
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


    I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

    Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

    Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

    'Focusing' implies that's almost all they did. In other words a lot more than 30% actually made use of non-combat features. Even I primarily focus on combat as the main progression system in MMOs, but I would dabble in other systems all the time, to give variety and have more fun.

    I imagine most players in UO made use of the housing features in some way and it enriched their experience playing the game. A player does not have to exclusively do one thing all the time for it to be worthwhile...

    EDIT: Come to think of it, 30% of players focusing entirely on non-combat activities... 30% is a very BIG chunk of the population and that's a 30% that modern MMOs aren't appealing to at all.

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