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Is KickStarter just a charitable contribution without a tax deduction?

Sal1Sal1 Member UncommonPosts: 430
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Is KickStarter just a charitable contribution without a tax deduction? Is that what Kickstarter really is?
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  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    except you get a lot of "perks" when donating.. guess that holds true to some "charities" as well though.. you probably could write it off as a donation though heh

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    Back in the old days, devs released a crappy game and prayed some poor idiots bought it before the word spread it was shite.  Hell, devs still do this today.

     

    But now days we have what's called kick starter where you just promise a game and people will give you money.  Can it be legitimate?  Yes.  But the potential for abuse is great in my opinion.  What are the safe guards so people don't lose their money?

     

    I pay $60 for a game if I like it.  There's a lot of great ideas or games I would like to play but have no funding.  Would I be willing to pledge $1000 or $10,000 to a game's development to see it to fruition with no payout other than to play what in the end is a $60 game for what amounts to a few online trinkets, a title, or some other digital equivalent marking me as a founder.  Hell to the fooking no.

     

    Now...if there was a promise to share in the rewards at release, like purchasing of stock or bonds, I might have a different view.

     

    Back in the old days, gaming was about having a good time.  Now it's all about microtransaction, freetoplay scams and finding ways to part little nerds from their hard earned cash. 

     

    That's my take.  Anyone here made any money from their 'investment' in kickstarter?

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Terranah

    Back in the old days, devs released a crappy game and prayed some poor idiots bought it before the word spread it was shite.  Hell, devs still do this today.

     

    But now days we have what's called kick starter where you just promise a game and people will give you money.  Can it be legitimate?  Yes.  But the potential for abuse is great in my opinion.  What are the safe guards so people don't lose their money?

     

    I pay $60 for a game if I like it.  There's a lot of great ideas or games I would like to play but have no funding.  Would I be willing to pledge $1000 or $10,000 to a game's development to see it to fruition with no payout other than to play what in the end is a $60 game for what amounts to a few online trinkets, a title, or some other digital equivalent marking me as a founder.  Hell to the fooking no.

     

    Now...if there was a promise to share in the rewards at release, like purchasing of stock or bonds, I might have a different view.

     

    Back in the old days, gaming was about having a good time.  Now it's all about microtransaction, freetoplay scams and finding ways to part little nerds from their hard earned cash. 

     

    That's my take.  Anyone here made any money from their 'investment' in kickstarter?

    kickstarter has only been around a couple years and all the bigger titles i have seen have only been funded in the past year or so, so little to early to tell.. if i get a really fun game out of ones I put money in like the repopulation and Star Citizen then yes ill say my "investment" was well worth it

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006

    i feel like its basically welfare for game devs. Its not an investment, there is no oversight on its use... no recourse for the "donator" if things go bellyup. It reminds me of those plastic buckets on convenience store counters with the little sign on it asking for your change..

    I don't like the trend. If you have a good enough idea and the talent to make it you shouldn't have any problem earning funding the proper way.

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806

    I've always looked at it as encouraging the production of games I'm interested in.  I can always get more money, but I can't get entertaining games, nearly as easy.  I look at the past history of the Dev's and also their presentation.  I'm more than willing to risk some money to let people try their hand at producing an entertaining game.

    Given how risk adverse most suits tend to be, is it any wonder that we see the endless number of limited difference theme games we have for years now?

    What we DON"T need is for the heavy hand of government to get involved, to "protect" people.  Everyone should be expected to do their own research, and make their own choices.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    The only return you will get is fun playing the game, should it ever be released.  What percent of all games kickstarted have been released?

     

    Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of every contribution.  Pretty nice gig eh?  They do not garuntee your money back (thus releasing their own personal liability) should the company not meet the milestone or just flat out defraud you, because your money is given to the company or person making the game.  It is then the person or companies responsibility to pay the money back should they not meet their goals.  

     

    I have 'investments' as well.  They pay me 5k per month, every month.  That is an 'investment'.  Kickstarter is just a way of donating money, as the OP said, without tax benefit.  Essentially you are just giving money away, and a fool is easily parted from his money as any scam artist can attest.

     

    But as I stated, are there legitmate kickstarter projects out there, yes there are.  But think carefully before throwing your money down a black hole never to see again.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Terranah

    The only return you will get is fun playing the game, should it ever be released.  What percent of all games kickstarted have been released?

     

    Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of every contribution.  Pretty nice gig eh?  They do not garuntee your money back (thus releasing their own personal liability) should the company not meet the milestone or just flat out defraud you, because your money is given to the company or person making the game.  It is then the person or companies responsibility to pay the money back should they not meet their goals.  

     

    I have 'investments' as well.  They pay me 5k per month, every month.  That is an 'investment'.  Kickstarter is just a way of donating money, as the OP said, without tax benefit.  Essentially you are just giving money away, and a fool is easily parted from his money as any scam artist can attest.

     

    But as I stated, are there legitmate kickstarter projects out there, yes there are.  But think carefully before throwing your money down a black hole never to see again.

    nm after reading the kickstarter terms they ARE required to come through or provide a refund

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575
    Originally posted by Wraithone

    I've always looked at it as encouraging the production of games I'm interested in.  I can always get more money, but I can't get entertaining games, nearly as easy.  I look at the past history of the Dev's and also their presentation.  I'm more than willing to risk some money to let people try their hand at producing an entertaining game.

    Given how risk adverse most suits tend to be, is it any wonder that we see the endless number of limited difference theme games we have for years now?

    What we DON"T need is for the heavy hand of government to get involved, to "protect" people.  Everyone should be expected to do their own research, and make their own choices.

     What 'risk' are you speaking of.  You are giving them money.  If they steal it, you never see it again.  If they reach their milestone, you never see it again.  There is no risk involved, only giving them money.  Maybe you will get the money back if the company or person is honest, but why take a risk you don't have to?  Because you like to play good games.  Hell we all like that.  But that's not reason throw money at anyone making promises.

     

    Anyone know what the percent of games kick started acttually get released to any kind of critical aclaim, or at the very least hailed as a success by gamers (which is the only true measure I care about anyway)?

     

     

     

     

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Terranah

    The only return you will get is fun playing the game, should it ever be released.  What percent of all games kickstarted have been released?

     

    Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of every contribution.  Pretty nice gig eh?  They do not garuntee your money back (thus releasing their own personal liability) should the company not meet the milestone or just flat out defraud you, because your money is given to the company or person making the game.  It is then the person or companies responsibility to pay the money back should they not meet their goals.  

     

    I have 'investments' as well.  They pay me 5k per month, every month.  That is an 'investment'.  Kickstarter is just a way of donating money, as the OP said, without tax benefit.  Essentially you are just giving money away, and a fool is easily parted from his money as any scam artist can attest.

     

    But as I stated, are there legitmate kickstarter projects out there, yes there are.  But think carefully before throwing your money down a black hole never to see again.

    could say the same thing for any person that walks into a casino.. of course its a gamble.. you are gambling on an idea that a great game will be made and you are willing to part with some money to see it through(and usually get lots of nice perks for donating them money).. of course there is no guarantee pretty sure people who donate to kickstarter are well aware of that fact.. 

     Bad analogy.  In a casino you put money in a slot machine for a chance to get more money back.  In Kickstarter, you are forbidden under the companies policy to share in any of the profits or even a chance to share in profits.

     

    It's nothing like gambling in a casino. 

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Terranah
     

     What 'risk' are you speaking of.  You are giving them money.  If they steal it, you never see it again.  If they reach their milestone, you never see it again.  There is no risk involved, only giving them money.  Maybe you will get the money back if the company or person is honest, but why take a risk you don't have to?  Because you like to play good games.  Hell we all like that.  But that's not reason throw money at anyone making promises.

     

    Anyone know what the percent of games kick started acttually get released to any kind of critical aclaim, or at the very least hailed as a success by gamers (which is the only true measure I care about anyway)?

     

     

     

     

    again kickstarter is new (started 2009) it just started getting widespread attention in the past year or so most games take several years of development.. way to early to start claiming kickstarter is just basically a scam

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237
    Originally posted by TribeofOne

    i feel like its basically welfare for game devs. Its not an investment, there is no oversight on its use... no recourse for the "donator" if things go bellyup. It reminds me of those plastic buckets on convenience store counters with the little sign on it asking for your change..

    I don't like the trend. If you have a good enough idea and the talent to make it you shouldn't have any problem earning funding the proper way.

    My thoughts exactly.

     

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by jdnewell
    Originally posted by TribeofOne

    i feel like its basically welfare for game devs. Its not an investment, there is no oversight on its use... no recourse for the "donator" if things go bellyup. It reminds me of those plastic buckets on convenience store counters with the little sign on it asking for your change..

    I don't like the trend. If you have a good enough idea and the talent to make it you shouldn't have any problem earning funding the proper way.

    My thoughts exactly.

     

    issue is most publishers nowadays are just in it for the quick buck so instead of the planscape torments we get fifa 2013 or the next COD game.. you want to be unique and put out new ideas you are going to be much more hard pressed to get funding hence why i feel kickstarter is a great idea or we could just let EA eat up every decent developer left..

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by Terranah
    Originally posted by Wraithone

    I've always looked at it as encouraging the production of games I'm interested in.  I can always get more money, but I can't get entertaining games, nearly as easy.  I look at the past history of the Dev's and also their presentation.  I'm more than willing to risk some money to let people try their hand at producing an entertaining game.

    Given how risk adverse most suits tend to be, is it any wonder that we see the endless number of limited difference theme games we have for years now?

    What we DON"T need is for the heavy hand of government to get involved, to "protect" people.  Everyone should be expected to do their own research, and make their own choices.

     What 'risk' are you speaking of.  You are giving them money.  If they steal it, you never see it again.  If they reach their milestone, you never see it again.  There is no risk involved, only giving them money.  Maybe you will get the money back if the company or person is honest, but why take a risk you don't have to?  Because you like to play good games.  Hell we all like that.  But that's not reason throw money at anyone making promises.

     

    Anyone know what the percent of games kick started acttually get released to any kind of critical aclaim, or at the very least hailed as a success by gamers (which is the only true measure I care about anyway)?

     

     

     

     

    The context was that of the suits who make the typical decisions in the current gaming industry... As for the money, this is a hobby to me. I spend more than that in a given month any way.  If I can get a good, enjoyable game out of it, then I'm happy. If it doesn't turn out, then I'm not out much, and will add them to the list of those not to be supported in the future.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by jdnewell
    Originally posted by TribeofOne

    i feel like its basically welfare for game devs. Its not an investment, there is no oversight on its use... no recourse for the "donator" if things go bellyup. It reminds me of those plastic buckets on convenience store counters with the little sign on it asking for your change..

    I don't like the trend. If you have a good enough idea and the talent to make it you shouldn't have any problem earning funding the proper way.

    My thoughts exactly.

     

    Well, the reality of the VC area is a bit more complicated than that. Especially given the current economic problems.  Its not nearly enough to have good ideas, or even a good design document and experience. What the VC types want is minimal risk for the maximum ROI.  One has only to look around us to know whats wrong with that approach.  If all you want is Me Too type clones of various popular games, then by all means stick to that methodology.

    If KS is able to cut out the VC middle men and produce entertaining games, then I'm more than happy to be part of the process.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • DauzqulDauzqul Member RarePosts: 1,982
    KickStarter is a place for a ton of people to tell you how much your idea sucks, and then steal it.
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437

    Kickstarter is the exact opposite of a charity, it's free market capitalism.

    You buy assets and support a company trying to make assets.

    Charity is a social platform, it doesn't involve ownership or profits.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Member RarePosts: 1,982
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Kickstarter is the exact opposite of a charity, it's capitalism.

    You buy assets and support a company trying to make assets.

    Charity is a social platform, it doesn't involve ownership or profits.

    The person donating doesn't get any return. It's ultimately just a donation.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Kickstarter is the exact opposite of a charity, it's capitalism.

     No part of capitalism involves throwing money away with no hope of return.

    no sure what you're trying to say, capitalism is the ability to own capital and invest capital in a free market economy, this is what kickstarter is, regardless of the risks

    charity is socialism,  you invest in social needs and use a monetary system to accomplish this

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Dauzqul
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Kickstarter is the exact opposite of a charity, it's capitalism.

    You buy assets and support a company trying to make assets.

    Charity is a social platform, it doesn't involve ownership or profits.

    That's not what KickStarter is, though. You don't invest with KickStarter. It's 100% donation. Games, however, will usually offer some virtual incentive, e.g., beta key, cape, etc.

    As far as I'm aware, people who invest for example in OUYA, also have bought the product.

    It's a free market where people invest in capital for the chance of ownership, that's capitalism at play.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
    Originally posted by Terranah

    The only return you will get is fun playing the game, should it ever be released.  What percent of all games kickstarted have been released?

     

    Kickstarter takes 5% off the top of every contribution.  Pretty nice gig eh?  They do not garuntee your money back (thus releasing their own personal liability) should the company not meet the milestone or just flat out defraud you, because your money is given to the company or person making the game.  It is then the person or companies responsibility to pay the money back should they not meet their goals.  

     

    I have 'investments' as well.  They pay me 5k per month, every month.  That is an 'investment'.  Kickstarter is just a way of donating money, as the OP said, without tax benefit.  Essentially you are just giving money away, and a fool is easily parted from his money as any scam artist can attest.

     

    But as I stated, are there legitmate kickstarter projects out there, yes there are.  But think carefully before throwing your money down a black hole never to see again.

    You are essentially correct. Problem is that there are no producers funding sandbox, virtual world MMORPGs so if us gamers who want to have such a game made, our only choice seems to be crowdfunding sites like Kickstarter.

    But yes, the risk for getting scammed is high...

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  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     You cannot make money by giving to a kickstarter. Kickstarter is not a financial investment.

     

    You don't need to make money to be part of capitalism, when you buy a product in a free market economy you are part of capitalism, you are investing money in kickstarter with the goal to own capital, that is pure capitalism. It sure as hell is not the same as charity.

    I don't even know why I'm arguing something this straighforward, you can have your opinion and I'll leave it at that since I think you're being stubborn for no apparent reason.

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    Kick Starter funds are taxed unde US law.  As for non-US companies don't know.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,806
    Originally posted by Dauzqul
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Kickstarter is the exact opposite of a charity, it's capitalism.

    You buy assets and support a company trying to make assets.

    Charity is a social platform, it doesn't involve ownership or profits.

    The person donating doesn't get any return. It's ultimately just a donation.

    Correction. They do not receive any money in return.  But if things work out, they may get an entertaining game. Thats really all I'm concerned about.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
  • fenring101fenring101 Member UncommonPosts: 80

    Kickstarter = Gaming Industries version of Hobo's...

     

    Spare some change?

     

    I could understand it if you were given stock in the company, or that your money would be returned if the minimum requirements were not met. But many of these people see it as a way to shake a tin infront of clueless idiots with more money than sense and get a bit of free cash for minimal effort and almost no risk.

     

    Oh we were $1000 short of being able to start the project, if we dont get the donations then the game will die even though you have already donated a ton of $$$

     

    You dont give Hobo's cash because it just goes on booze or drugs. For these sort of Hobo's then its simple; if it was a good idea and they were actually serious about making it work they would find investors. You know... those people who actually gain something from it.

  • FromHellFromHell Member Posts: 1,311
    Originally posted by Terranah

    Back in the old days, devs released a crappy game and prayed some poor idiots bought it before the word spread it was shite.  Hell, devs still do this today.

     

    But now days we have what's called kick starter where you just promise a game and people will give you money.  Can it be legitimate?  Yes.  But the potential for abuse is great in my opinion.  What are the safe guards so people don't lose their money?

     

    I pay $60 for a game if I like it.  There's a lot of great ideas or games I would like to play but have no funding.  Would I be willing to pledge $1000 or $10,000 to a game's development to see it to fruition with no payout other than to play what in the end is a $60 game for what amounts to a few online trinkets, a title, or some other digital equivalent marking me as a founder.  Hell to the fooking no.

     

    Now...if there was a promise to share in the rewards at release, like purchasing of stock or bonds, I might have a different view.

     

    Back in the old days, gaming was about having a good time.  Now it's all about microtransaction, freetoplay scams and finding ways to part little nerds from their hard earned cash. 

     

    That's my take.  Anyone here made any money from their 'investment' in kickstarter?

    You don´t INVEST in Kickstarter, you get rewards.

     

    I backed

    Star Citizen

    Elite Dangerous

    Double Fine Adventures

    The new Dreamfall / Longest Journey, currently online

     

    People back games of companies who have TRACK RECORD of successful games, I don´t give money to John Doe to "create the best MMO evah"

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
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