Stealthers that can disappear after already being seen and then kill you before you can do anything about it. While I don't recall this being as bad when I played DAOC as it is in WAR, I have always hated the stealth mechanic when employed in this totally skilless manner.
Stealth should be a way to get around the field while avoiding combat completely, or to spring a trap. Not a way to maneuver through the front lines to get to the support classes, or to escape a fight where the stealther is out classed or out numbered.
Cool downs are not the answer to this problem. In fact, I would not put a cooldown on stealth at all.
To enter stealth mode, a stealther should have to be out of line of sight from any enemies that are not currently engaged in melee combat (maybe just combat). Whether this is behind an object larger than the stealther, or at a distance that would make them unnoticeable without stealth is irrelevant.
Movement should induce a bonus to detection that scales with the distance moved by the stealther. I have no problem with an ability to conceal oneself along a common route of travel, wait for a solo target to pass within melee range and then being able to appear out of nowhere and be assured of the kill. On the other hand, try this with a whole group and the stealther should be assured of their own death, with maybe ONE kill.
Detection should be range dependent as well. At a range greater than any ranged attack, stealth should be reliable, but get inside of ranged attack range and detection should become a concern. At four times melee range an enemy not currently using a combat skill should be able to see a stealther moving around them as a ghost figure. At two times melee range, if the stealther is the one moving, stealth should be broken unless the stealther is approaching an enemy where an ally is occupying that enemy's attention.
Attacks from stealth should have "cast" times, that require the stealther to be stationary the way casters can not move, but these attacks could then have even greater effects than a nuke. Because ,of course, they would get only one in any particular fight since they will have broken stealth.
Stealthers that can disappear after already being seen and then kill you before you can do anything about it. While I don't recall this being as bad when I played DAOC as it is in WAR, I have always hated the stealth mechanic when employed in this totally skilless manner.
Stealth should be a way to get around the field while avoiding combat completely, or to spring a trap. Not a way to maneuver through the front lines to get to the support classes, or to escape a fight where the stealther is out classed or out numbered.
Cool downs are not the answer to this problem. In fact, I would not put a cooldown on stealth at all.
To enter stealth mode, a stealther should have to be out of line of sight from any enemies that are not currently engaged in melee combat (maybe just combat). Whether this is behind an object larger than the stealther, or at a distance that would make them unnoticeable without stealth is irrelevant.
Movement should induce a bonus to detection that scales with the distance moved by the stealther. I have no problem with an ability to conceal oneself along a common route of travel, wait for a solo target to pass within melee range and then being able to appear out of nowhere and be assured of the kill. On the other hand, try this with a whole group and the stealther should be assured of their own death, with maybe ONE kill.
Detection should be range dependent as well. At a range greater than any ranged attack, stealth should be reliable, but get inside of ranged attack range and detection should become a concern. At four times melee range an enemy not currently using a combat skill should be able to see a stealther moving around them as a ghost figure. At two times melee range, if the stealther is the one moving, stealth should be broken unless the stealther is approaching an enemy where an ally is occupying that enemy's attention.
Attacks from stealth should have "cast" times, that require the stealther to be stationary the way casters can not move, but these attacks could then have even greater effects than a nuke. Because ,of course, they would get only one in any particular fight since they will have broken stealth.
I agree the Steatlh mechanic in DaoC is broken. When DaoC first came out it was alright but right now it's stupid. Pretty much any monkey can roll a stealth class and then it's just a waiting game to find anyone stupid enough to try and run around solo. CU shouldn't be like that. Every class should have a chance to solo, not just stealthers and those built to kill stealthers. Some of my most fond memories in DaoC was solo'ing on my druid fighting necro's, clerics, rm's, sorcs, minsts, skalds etc... all solo fights. Each fight brought a unique challenge. Both players if they panned well had equal advantage. Stealthers on the other hand were horrible fights. It was can I purge and rr5 before the stealther kills me? if so I win, if not I lose. Sooooo stupid. no real strategy involved at all. Then don't even get me started on stealther groups addding on everything with nearly 0 risk.
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
The character control. It was fine way back then. But after playing games like WoW that have super precise controls, I can't even bring myself to play DAOC anymore, the controls are just dreadful.
Especially after ToA and proliferation of buffbots, casters became demi-gods. Damage output needs to be tempered by casting speed. I don't mind casters being able to rapid fire spells, but then the damage has to drop as well.
I want everything sans PvE grind(ToA), Brittle Guard, and Forceful Zephyr(personal annoyances). And Infils having more spec points than anyone.
Other than that, a better-looking, RvR-centric daoc with dynamic objectives and badass vision would give my soul a boner.
Never had a problem with the CC or interrupt system at all. Never had a problem with Stealth. Never had a problem with casters. If I wanted to play a game where there was no chance of getting owned by someone got the drop on me, I would play a single-player game. If they can pwn me, I can pwn them, and if I can't, I am a scrub who should not be playing a hardcore niche mmorpg.
It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature. I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately. This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.
I personally loved both features. Caster or arch hiding behind a tree? /face and you'd know where it's coming from; /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature. I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately. This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.
I personally loved both features. Caster or arch hiding behind a tree? /face and you'd know where it's coming from; /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.
I actually liked it, bunny hopping around wasn't successful.
It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature. I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately. This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.
I personally loved both features. Caster or arch hiding behind a tree? /face and you'd know where it's coming from; /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.
Don't necessarily think /stick encouraged assist trains... I'm pretty sure the pvp game design encouraged that form of strategy.
Without stick maybe it would be harder? maybe not? I think something like /stick allows some level of relaxation in a complicated battle that can allow them to think more as a group instead of just what you're doing. Who knows though, couldn't confirm or deny that without removing stick from daoc.
Fix the clunky nature of it and I think it would work fantastic in a new game.
Evilastro: do you have any idea how multi-faceted, convoluted, messy, and crazy the game development process is, or are you (understandably) confused as to how much of a developer's vision matters against the muscle a publisher can flex?
MJ gave us the best competitive rpg ever created. Ever. I think he deserves at least one more chance since this is the second time he has had a chance to make a game based solely on the team's vision. The first was daoc, and it was bloody brilliant for it's time.
I would like to thank my parents and my teachers....
But seriously, hasn't he wasted enough peoples money already?
I laughed at your original comment, but just wanted to let you know that you actually are just trolling at this point if you're posting on a forum dedicated to a game created by the developer you're talking about in a negative sense.
The amount of people that feel he's wasted their money doesn't equal the amount of people that feel he has been incredibly successful at providing a decent, great, or amazing online gaming experience; it doesn't even come close.
Each person has his or her own opinion, but how many developers do you know that will get elbow deep in threads discussing design, reasoning, flaws, and the whys and hows of everything? Very few. That should earn your respect, despite what you think - no one forced you, or anyone else, to continue to allow him or his associated companies to waste your money. Simply unsubscribe instead of posting negativity like this or at least provide valid reasons beyond bold and broad statements.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
One thing I'd like NOT to see in the new game are the weird line of sight issues that plagued DAoC. Getting into range to cast or fire arrows was bad enough without being able to plainly see your target but not hit them!
And no pissing around for weeks by the company while trying to decide whether or not radar users deserve to be banned. And NO ALLOWING them to start new accounts after they've been banned. At least make them go through the effort of using someone else's name and address and credit card on their new account.
NF was too freak'n large. I don't want to spend a half hour trying to get back to my group after /release. XRealmers were awful as it unbalanced the battle field. Stealthing was unbalanced. Stun/nuke classes were unballanced. Pet stuns without immunity period as ranks high on my annoyance list. Instant heal timers were far far too long as made combat too short. Lack of range information was extremely annoying Lack of a default RADAR/Map with group info was also annoying. Stacking stationary pets was also highly annoying.
As far as teleports, I never mind them and I found /face and /stick useful in DAoC. Now in WAR, Mythic had it where /face was not needed, I could tell by the highlights on who and where my attackers were. I think /stick would still be useful for some who have varying hardware capabilities that might impeed a player to properly engage the correct enemy in the fog/lag of battle.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall. Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
No more buffbots. Unfortunately it is a money maker because of the second and third accounts. So make it potions only or heck with the buffs. You go by the armor you can craft.
No more stuns and then any CC. That isn't balance.
Plus onto another rant, if you are going to make a class, such as the Thane or the Valkyrie in Midgard, then make them as they are supposed to be. The Thane could have rocked, had that freakin Thor's Hammer worked. lol
Comments
if im going to play this game i:
dont want to see DAOC's bad graphics and clunky mechanics.
And i sure as hell dont want to see the EA logo anywhere near CU......lol
Stealthers that can disappear after already being seen and then kill you before you can do anything about it. While I don't recall this being as bad when I played DAOC as it is in WAR, I have always hated the stealth mechanic when employed in this totally skilless manner.
Stealth should be a way to get around the field while avoiding combat completely, or to spring a trap. Not a way to maneuver through the front lines to get to the support classes, or to escape a fight where the stealther is out classed or out numbered.
Cool downs are not the answer to this problem. In fact, I would not put a cooldown on stealth at all.
To enter stealth mode, a stealther should have to be out of line of sight from any enemies that are not currently engaged in melee combat (maybe just combat). Whether this is behind an object larger than the stealther, or at a distance that would make them unnoticeable without stealth is irrelevant.
Movement should induce a bonus to detection that scales with the distance moved by the stealther. I have no problem with an ability to conceal oneself along a common route of travel, wait for a solo target to pass within melee range and then being able to appear out of nowhere and be assured of the kill. On the other hand, try this with a whole group and the stealther should be assured of their own death, with maybe ONE kill.
Detection should be range dependent as well. At a range greater than any ranged attack, stealth should be reliable, but get inside of ranged attack range and detection should become a concern. At four times melee range an enemy not currently using a combat skill should be able to see a stealther moving around them as a ghost figure. At two times melee range, if the stealther is the one moving, stealth should be broken unless the stealther is approaching an enemy where an ally is occupying that enemy's attention.
Attacks from stealth should have "cast" times, that require the stealther to be stationary the way casters can not move, but these attacks could then have even greater effects than a nuke. Because ,of course, they would get only one in any particular fight since they will have broken stealth.
I agree the Steatlh mechanic in DaoC is broken. When DaoC first came out it was alright but right now it's stupid. Pretty much any monkey can roll a stealth class and then it's just a waiting game to find anyone stupid enough to try and run around solo. CU shouldn't be like that. Every class should have a chance to solo, not just stealthers and those built to kill stealthers. Some of my most fond memories in DaoC was solo'ing on my druid fighting necro's, clerics, rm's, sorcs, minsts, skalds etc... all solo fights. Each fight brought a unique challenge. Both players if they panned well had equal advantage. Stealthers on the other hand were horrible fights. It was can I purge and rr5 before the stealther kills me? if so I win, if not I lose. Sooooo stupid. no real strategy involved at all. Then don't even get me started on stealther groups addding on everything with nearly 0 risk.
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
evilastro wins the best troll of 2013 award.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
/stick
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Caster damage output.
Especially after ToA and proliferation of buffbots, casters became demi-gods. Damage output needs to be tempered by casting speed. I don't mind casters being able to rapid fire spells, but then the damage has to drop as well.
Other than that, a better-looking, RvR-centric daoc with dynamic objectives and badass vision would give my soul a boner.
Never had a problem with the CC or interrupt system at all. Never had a problem with Stealth. Never had a problem with casters. If I wanted to play a game where there was no chance of getting owned by someone got the drop on me, I would play a single-player game. If they can pwn me, I can pwn them, and if I can't, I am a scrub who should not be playing a hardcore niche mmorpg.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
It actually surprises me that so many people dislike the /face and /stick feature. I can understand the 'clunky' aspect, but if WoW had implemented a form of it.. the idiots that bunny hop around you in combat would stop immediately. This isn't a comment to derail, I'm just saying I'm surprised.
I personally loved both features. Caster or arch hiding behind a tree? /face and you'd know where it's coming from; /stick had issues, though, as it encouraged /assist trains that just absolutely wrecked people.
I actually liked it, bunny hopping around wasn't successful.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Don't necessarily think /stick encouraged assist trains... I'm pretty sure the pvp game design encouraged that form of strategy.
Without stick maybe it would be harder? maybe not? I think something like /stick allows some level of relaxation in a complicated battle that can allow them to think more as a group instead of just what you're doing. Who knows though, couldn't confirm or deny that without removing stick from daoc.
Fix the clunky nature of it and I think it would work fantastic in a new game.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
I would like to thank my parents and my teachers....
But seriously, hasn't he wasted enough peoples money already?
MJ gave us the best competitive rpg ever created. Ever. I think he deserves at least one more chance since this is the second time he has had a chance to make a game based solely on the team's vision. The first was daoc, and it was bloody brilliant for it's time.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
I laughed at your original comment, but just wanted to let you know that you actually are just trolling at this point if you're posting on a forum dedicated to a game created by the developer you're talking about in a negative sense.
The amount of people that feel he's wasted their money doesn't equal the amount of people that feel he has been incredibly successful at providing a decent, great, or amazing online gaming experience; it doesn't even come close.
Each person has his or her own opinion, but how many developers do you know that will get elbow deep in threads discussing design, reasoning, flaws, and the whys and hows of everything? Very few. That should earn your respect, despite what you think - no one forced you, or anyone else, to continue to allow him or his associated companies to waste your money. Simply unsubscribe instead of posting negativity like this
or at least provide valid reasons beyond bold and broad statements.
"Bunny hopping" is never successful, mainly because it doesnt have any benefit to start with.
i also liked /face /stick , but i can also admit it was a pain when people /stick on you and were afk for a long time.
i'd keep both, but would put a timer on /stick, i.e. 5-10 minutes....everyone got to bio break once in a while
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
No buffbots.
And no pissing around for weeks by the company while trying to decide whether or not radar users deserve to be banned. And NO ALLOWING them to start new accounts after they've been banned. At least make them go through the effort of using someone else's name and address and credit card on their new account.
Aye i agree, NO RADAR tolerated, or any cheats.
I think this line of conduct will have to be very reinforced from day 1, and that CSE will need to work on detecting/blocking stuff like that.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
NF was too freak'n large. I don't want to spend a half hour trying to get back to my group after /release. XRealmers were awful as it unbalanced the battle field. Stealthing was unbalanced. Stun/nuke classes were unballanced. Pet stuns without immunity period as ranks high on my annoyance list. Instant heal timers were far far too long as made combat too short. Lack of range information was extremely annoying Lack of a default RADAR/Map with group info was also annoying. Stacking stationary pets was also highly annoying.
As far as teleports, I never mind them and I found /face and /stick useful in DAoC. Now in WAR, Mythic had it where /face was not needed, I could tell by the highlights on who and where my attackers were. I think /stick would still be useful for some who have varying hardware capabilities that might impeed a player to properly engage the correct enemy in the fog/lag of battle.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
No more buffbots. Unfortunately it is a money maker because of the second and third accounts. So make it potions only or heck with the buffs. You go by the armor you can craft.
No more stuns and then any CC. That isn't balance.
Plus onto another rant, if you are going to make a class, such as the Thane or the Valkyrie in Midgard, then make them as they are supposed to be. The Thane could have rocked, had that freakin Thor's Hammer worked. lol
Silj - Midgard/Guin