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Now...Things from DAoC you DON'T want to see in CU

BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member

Few days ago i started a thread to find out what old DAoC players liked so much in it that they would like to see it again in CU.

 

Now lets find out what DAoC players don't want to see again in CU.

 

Lets keep it simple, one thing only (although it can be a group of closely related things)

 

 

For my part, what i don't want to see is anything remotely close to NF and all that came with it.

- teleports from one RvR point to another. let us have to run back to the action, even if takes 20 minutes, i hated the fact how you could die in RvR, /release, and be back in the battle in basically seconds. If you want to be back in battle ASAP, It also made dying meaningless, It made people just want to jump in battles foolishly, make a few RPs real fast even if it meant dying.

Be nice to the community and healers will happily resurrect you. It really helps ...(i'll be polite) rude players to behave correctly with other players if they dont want to have to release all the time and waste half they playing time running back to the action. if the community needs to manage itself properly as to how to behave all together, give us the tools to do so.

- too much info on our radar map. lets keep it as in pre NF; a radar, with N,S,E,W, terrain thats it ! It killed quite many RPG fun factors ; search, communicate, adventure, discover, coordinate. Also made scouts pretty useless too :( who needs one when a simple click tells you where are the battles, how many ennemies there and such, when a simple click told you all that ?

- Keeps with basically all the same surrounding terrain, i.e. those keeps on small island and 3 bridges to access it. Keep it simple, make huge battles possible with many different strategies /  possibilities.

 

These 3 points (mostly the first two) are what killed DAoC...It went from a MMORPG to a MMOFPS too much "hardcore" action for a RPG

 

P.S. : non related to the actual thread, but just thought about it. Make sure that i.e. castle, between slots up on castle walls, EVERY race can shoot from there lol !

I remember how dumb i felt with my kobold standing on walls, look at my fellow "human sized" friends shoot from upthere, while i was there feeling like Gimli, only top of my helmet visible and saying " whats happening ? what do you see !" lol, not being able to shoot cuz i was a kobold.

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Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

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Comments

  • FoggyeFoggye Portland, ORPosts: 95Member

    Well, there was some counterplay to some of things that makes things kinda neat.

     

    Sure there was teleports, but you could cut off teleportation.  Part of the tactic was to cut it off.  So, I think there should be some, but VERY limited, and at the risk of not being there.  Perhaps, ppl whom teleport get a debuff similiar to rezz sickness.  This could allow for a few key gathering areas where people can mill around to form groups similair to any PK back in the day.

     

    The map system was kinda neat because you know where there was a fight, or an ongoing one.  The trick was you could attack someone/where just to get the enemy to come there when your goal was really somewhere else.   Sometimes you started 'fires' just to goad the enemy into attacking you.  I remember the old days, and it was good for the community, but I remember sometimes when it was just too much to read and squabble over (which mean you think that the community just needed to shut up.)  I honestly could go either way with this.  I agree about dumbing the actual mini-map or radar.  What's the sense of having nighttime matter if you can just see on the mini-map.

     

     

     

     

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

    Some ppl liked it...

     

    but I cant stand the caster interupts. Played daoc for almost 9 years,.. never once rolled a caster

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    I liked having to wait on the porters to get to the frontier lands..

     

    but being a hib it was super unfair having to run all the way to emain, while eveyone else goto port right there. So while I think Dying in rvr should come with a penalty (like having to wait) it should just be fair

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • youngkgyoungkg dallas, TXPosts: 357Member

    I wanna see each character have a buff limit similar to the concentration stat (that buff classes have) that limit the amount of buffs they can hand out.

     

    If i cant see that then i dont wanna see buff classes in CU.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Ranged damage dealers with ranged stun. Even though I loved my smite cleric and my eldritch, I will readily concede that one class having both stun and nukes is bullshit.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • HeartsparkHeartspark Southland, MOPosts: 69Member
    Most of what i don't want to see is already not in game, pve being removed saved lots of it.  Lots of the spells classes has helped in pve more so than pvp.  You can go pve spec of pvp spec.  Making all lines work for pvp is the only challenge now.

    Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired

    Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
    Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
    Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
    Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired

  • ArnfiarnunnArnfiarnunn eragnyPosts: 61Member Common

    +1 for no teleport, it tends to make stupids situations (i try a suicide kill, i die, i tp, i try a suicide kill, i die, i tp), if peoples have to run 10min or more to reach the closest fight they will think twice before suicide bombing

     

    About radars, I personaly don't like it and prefer old style compass. We had to know the map, discovers hided places to embush ennemies, etc...

    By the way I don't know if it would be possible, so at least do not show fights and ennemies on the map. Just a map would be way enough to me.

     

     

    My personnal thing I hated and still hate is: DPS range with stuns or cc control, they're just imbalance by essence. (hibs/sorcerer/theu air)

    Just like the hibs with stun+dd, when I was stunned by any hib without my purge I just had to ask a rez even before taking the first shot.

    Make theses classes in particular VERY dependant of the assist characters, they already have their range as a big avantage to stay alive behind the lines.

     

    @wellzyc: the caster interrupt was the reason why it was still possible to play melee in bus. Check gw2 or warhammer: the caster just ruin all melees as soon as they quit the lines, in this games melee mean meatbag.

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  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member

    1) autotraining

    2) the movement system (acceleration, deceleration)

    3) /stick and /face on enemies

    4) crafting as it was done in daoc was super boring

    5) everyone running in panther and crocodile morphs like in ToA

    6) having to change items from my inventory to be able to play some classes effectively

    7) very slow balancing. Some classes were gimped for years

    8) too many classes

    9) the classes that were added in expansions were broken/OP/stupid

    10) a specialized 8v8 map like agramon. I like randomness. Strict 8v8 gets boring after a while.

    11) waiting for VIsur for 10 mins after each death

  • ArnfiarnunnArnfiarnunn eragnyPosts: 61Member Common
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw

    2) the movement system (acceleration, deceleration)

    I can understand the other points but why this one? It added realism and some kind of strategy...

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  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member
    Originally posted by Arnfiarnunn
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw

    2) the movement system (acceleration, deceleration)

    I can understand the other points but why this one? It added realism and some kind of strategy...

    What strategy? Having to use /stick and /face to be able to play? It was clunky and it's no surprise no other MMO used it again.

  • ArnfiarnunnArnfiarnunn eragnyPosts: 61Member Common
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw
    Originally posted by Arnfiarnunn
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw

    2) the movement system (acceleration, deceleration)

    I can understand the other points but why this one? It added realism and some kind of strategy...

    What strategy? Having to use /stick and /face to be able to play? It was clunky and it's no surprise no other MMO used it again.

    I don't get the point with the /stick and acceleration/deceleration.

    About the /face, I always feel sad it stopped you.

    The point (for me) about the A/C is to force people to be aware of their movement, and if no other mmo used it we could agree all other mmo have people moving brainlessly in all direction while fighting.

    I used to be melee in daoc, and this feature was really useful when I was charging a caster, just because I was faster than him until he reached max speed. So I was able to place a snare quite easily (and it sounds like a normal situation to me), in most other mmo the dude move in max speed and just kite the melee if he can't leap. Too bad, reroll a range class looser :D

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  • CananCanan Wedowee, ALPosts: 94Member
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw
    Originally posted by Arnfiarnunn
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw

    2) the movement system (acceleration, deceleration)

    I can understand the other points but why this one? It added realism and some kind of strategy...

    What strategy? Having to use /stick and /face to be able to play? It was clunky and it's no surprise no other MMO used it again.

    How could one name such a system as "clunky." It was not clunky and it indeed did add strategy (and still does) to DAoC's combat system. You had to figure out when you wanted to stop (and /face) an opponent whilst risking stopping too quickly (and getting punched in the face by an enemy) in order to nuke an enemy down (or heal an ally).

    Now, I do understand that some people will be against /stick but I really don't see the problem with it. Manually following some person around takes 0 skill and can become quite annoying. But, that is just my opinion. Plus, just because /sticking someone was an option didn't mean it was always the best thing to do. Many combat styles and weapon skills required you to be in different positions from your target which made /sticking the "wrong choice" in many instances.

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member

    Top of my list would be a game where you don't play the UI. Focus is on the screen most of the time and you're either first person or close third person....in the game. That's probably my No. 1 complaint from WoW, it made the info too readily available. Level, name, status, even buffs and current ability being cast, all at a single click...wth for? All it really did was separate you from your character and have you mostly watching group and mob health bars.

    I loved the text info style of DAoC. Not sure you could go back to that, but I'd like to see it. You'd think you'd spend more time reading chat than watching group boxes and bars in WoW, but that wasn' t the case. I must've learned to speed read or something.

     

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw

    3) /stick and /face on enemies

     

    I'm glad that I finally found a post that I somewhat agreed with you on, as most of the time I end up disagreeing with you.  I can understand both, but it's rather rare to hear someone say /stick and /face were negatives of DAoC.   I guess you were either one of the people that got train wrecked with /stick gankers, or one of them.   Either way, I could certainly lose /stick, but /face was incredibly useful to locate ranged attackers.  It also helped gaining view on positional styles for melees.

     

    The only thing that comes to mind immediately that I disliked was...

    1.  Underwater Combat

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

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  • BelloficiBellofici MelbournePosts: 10Member Uncommon
    Will 2nd the teleport comments. Being able have folks rejoin the battle within seconds is BS.  Make people run. It adds to the suspense and uncertainty that made old frontiers so much fun. I hated winning a big fight just to get rolled by the same people 1 minute later.  Different people, sure, or same group(s) 10-15 minutes later also good with. But within a minute, lame...
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,758Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WellzyC

    Some ppl liked it...

     

    but I cant stand the caster interupts. Played daoc for almost 9 years,.. never once rolled a caster

     Playing a caster in DAoC was absolutely horrific...i have no idea why they wanted tod the interrupts to that degree.....Also I dont want to see stealth in CU......I know alot of people thought it was great stealthing on the battlefield and killing people easily, but I just dont think it has a place...It didnt happen everytime, ut I remember several times being killed in one hit by stealthers in RVR.

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member

    "+1 for no teleport, it tends to make stupids situations (i try a suicide kill, i die, i tp, i try a suicide kill, i die, i tp), if peoples have to run 10min or more to reach the closest fight they will think twice before suicide bombing"

    there should be some kind of teleports they gave many ways to tactics during siege of other realm and if everyone will stand and be feared of fight there won't be much action at all.

    " Playing a caster in DAoC was absolutely horrific...i have no idea why they wanted tod the interrupts to that degree.....Also I dont want to see stealth in CU......I know alot of people thought it was great stealthing on the battlefield and killing people easily, but I just dont think it has a place...It didnt happen everytime, ut I remember several times being killed in one hit by stealthers in RVR."

     

    i played mostly casters and i loved system of interrupts so it means you are just crying, because you had problems playing something harder. Why did they implement it? Becuse of it this game wasn't boring, you had to think where to stand and you couldn't tank as a caster 5ppl having healers behind you and in the same time keep hitting. System of interrupts was very good, because of it also zerg fights didn't end so fast.

    back to topic I didn't like:

    1) warlocks with uniterruptable casts

    2) new ranger system (old was great)

    3) crafting was boring

    4) stun nuke nuke down, stun nuke nuke down. With 2 eldritches with my friend we killed 8 ppl without any heals in open. Stun / mezz and nuke on one character? Imho stun shouldn't be longer than 6s and the stun shouldn't  be on a caster that has so enormous dps like eldritch or at least do not give it as a base line spell to everyone. With right items in daoc stun could last even 10s. It was overpowered. When hib caster stunned somebody in siege fights he was almost 100% dead if purge was down. And there were just thousands of lurikeens waiting to just stun you.

     

     

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Huge diparities in power between characters.

    DAOC was level based, so if you were more than 4 levels below your opponent you had a real disadvantage in terms of being competitive.

    I know they have to provide some sort of progression system, but it really isn't fun to go out in PVP zones and get one shotted by people who have some sort of huge bonuses added on to them

    Ends up being a long slow climb to "endure" the disparity until you can fight your way to the top just be somewhat even.

    Will be interesting to see how they balance this.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • OutisOutis Birchwood, TNPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

    Some ppl liked it...

     

    but I cant stand the caster interupts. Played daoc for almost 9 years,.. never once rolled a caster

    I never liked it in the least. I felt like once a melee got within range is was pretty much “game over,” not to mention range attacks interrupted as well. Yes, I understand quickcast but a caster could only take 1-3 hits without dying. So why can spells just have a fizzle change when within melee range, do not make casters as squishy but as a trade off make their damage decrease with survivability.

    I think PvP in CU should last longer for better strategy. The must memorable fights were in SB when my guild’s town was baned. Those took a lot of strategy and time to conquer instead of, “Well, if we roll the casters in 2 hits then flank the archers/healers in 4-6 hits the tanks should be easy pickin’s since their support classes will be dead before they know it.”

    So, My 2 points to not put in CU are:

    1. Always interrupt casters within melee range
    2. RvR should have some depth of strategy not instant death to any class. Survivability should depend of the class made but not fast kills.

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  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member

    "I never liked it in the least. I felt like once a melee got within range is was pretty much “game over,” not to mention range attacks interrupted as well. Yes, I understand quickcast but a caster could only take 1-3 hits without dying. So why can spells just have a fizzle change when within melee range, do not make casters as squishy but as a trade off make their damage decrease with survivability."

    No it wasn't gameover. You could be saved by your mates, tank could be rooted, mezzed, stunned, crippled, diseased and many other things. Casters should die in 1-3 hits, they are casters. They still could be saved by a good healers. Because of that interruption system casters had also enormous DPS so if you left them 'alone' not being hit, they could kill. Don't make a game where you can cast and being hit in the same time. It's mindless.

  • OutisOutis Birchwood, TNPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by morfidon

    "I never liked it in the least. I felt like once a melee got within range is was pretty much “game over,” not to mention range attacks interrupted as well. Yes, I understand quickcast but a caster could only take 1-3 hits without dying. So why can spells just have a fizzle change when within melee range, do not make casters as squishy but as a trade off make their damage decrease with survivability."

    No it wasn't gameover. You could be saved by your mates, tank could be rooted, mezzed, stunned, crippled, diseased and many other things. Casters should die in 1-3 hits, they are casters. They still could be saved by a good healers. Because of that interruption system casters had also enormous DPS so if you left them 'alone' not being hit, they could kill. Don't make a game where you can cast and being hit in the same time. It's mindless.

    Then melee attacks, while "charging or running" should have huge penalties since a person swinging a 2h Axe should not effectively hit as hard running as a person swinging a 2h Axe standing still.

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  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    I don't want to see the absolutely stupid amounts of CC that was present when I played DAoC last (left right after ToA came out). Often times, it came down to whoever CC'd first would win the day, especially with realm skills like purge being on longish cooldowns (only to be CC'd again). This was actually one of the main reasons why my guild quit DAoC, because the CC killed a lot of the skill in small skirmishes.

    Long PvE road to be able to be competitive in PvP. The path from 1-50 was pretty long in DAoC, made longer by forced grouping, and xp loss on death. When class elitism set in, it was very hard for certain classes to get groups, which made that leveling path even longer. I would say keep PvE and PvP completely separate systems all together, but Darkness Falls was a fun idea. Being competitive in PvP regardless of level is a hard system to make, but seems worthwhile endeavor considering it could lengthen your mileage with the game.

    Imbalanced classes, some were stupid strong and others were stupid weak. Having different classes per realm was a neat idea in DAoC, but I think it also created more problems than needed. Class balancing is always an issue with heavily focused PvP games though.

  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member

    Buff bots - Use concentration and max range on buffs to keep them under control.

    Clunky movement- This goes with the acceleration/deceleration previously posted. It felt far too constricting going back to this after newer mmmos and is the main reason I couldn't go back and play daoc after 9 years of doing so =p It didn't add strategy, because stick would instantly accelerate you to max speed and face would instantly stop you. It was just a poorly implemented movement system. I mean ffs you could run backwards as fast as you could forwards by autorunning, holding down pan and then holding down your backpedal.

    I'm up in the air on stick and face on enemy targets. Friendly would be nice though (especially if we don't have the infamous mini map half radar on our screen showing the position of our allies as little dots).

    Radar from post NF with flaming objectives and icons indiciating the factions having large fights. I don't mind having a warning system for objectives, but I definately don't want to see open field fights have a big kill me symbol over them on a map.

    I think that's about it. Just to comment on things others have posted.

    Interrupts- I'd like to see them the way they were in daoc... if not it needs to at least be harsher than the free casting crap we see in mmos today. 

    CC- It was terrible at the start, and got progressively better throughout the games life. The last time I played heavy tanks had pbae demez/deroot with stoicism+det5, purge was on a 5min cd, charge on a 3min cd, and multiple hybrids had access to at least determination. The cc at that point was perfectly fine (your oh shit demezzer couldn't be cc'd very long at all). Nevermind the fact that roots were a good way to lose most of the time because they gave snare immunity which was far more useful imo. Granted roots also became rather pointless because of the champion level abilities that allowed melee the interrupt with disease efficiently from range.

     

     

     

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Kaneth

    I don't want to see the absolutely stupid amounts of CC that was present when I played DAoC last (left right after ToA came out). Often times, it came down to whoever CC'd first would win the day, especially with realm skills like purge being on longish cooldowns (only to be CC'd again). This was actually one of the main reasons why my guild quit DAoC, because the CC killed a lot of the skill in small skirmishes.

    Long PvE road to be able to be competitive in PvP. The path from 1-50 was pretty long in DAoC, made longer by forced grouping, and xp loss on death. When class elitism set in, it was very hard for certain classes to get groups, which made that leveling path even longer. I would say keep PvE and PvP completely separate systems all together, but Darkness Falls was a fun idea. Being competitive in PvP regardless of level is a hard system to make, but seems worthwhile endeavor considering it could lengthen your mileage with the game.

    Imbalanced classes, some were stupid strong and others were stupid weak. Having different classes per realm was a neat idea in DAoC, but I think it also created more problems than needed. Class balancing is always an issue with heavily focused PvP games though.

    How does CC kill a lot of the skill? using CC in DAOC was skill... If you blew purge on a mezz and then got rooted, that means you were out skilled ... lol?

     

    I honestly think the long road from 1-50 is one of the things that made daoc so great, eventually you could PL fast, but your original character meant something. I hope there is a way to stop people from just jumping around from class to class to class when they die the first time because they think they're underpowered.

    Class balance was a hard thing in DAOC, but the pros and gains you get from having so many unique interesting classes far outweights it.

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Mark Jacobs
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