So is this a full on gank and grief festival?

HappyFunBall · March 2013

When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.

I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!

Been dying for a new AND quality tripple-A sandbox game and still haven't found it in 4 years of searching. Despite what people define as a sandbox, there actually does NOT have to be ganking and full-looting/griefing.

Wasn't there a precursor to this simply called Darkfall? I could have sworn I played that, and was enjoying it, until a much higher leveled player ganked me, and stole all my newbie items I spent hours obtain. I unstalled it 5 mins later. Wow, that's so much fun! I might as well go schools, beat up kids, and steal their lunch money. Not only is there 0 challenge there, that $2 of lunch money could buy me, well, nothing.

Please tell me this game isn't exactly like I described.

Oh yeah, I'll never pre-order a game, EVER, without at least playing the beta. Then they give you beta access, so essecially, you are PAYING to test their game. No. Just no.

I mean, what else besides a game do and can people pre-order? There's not a lot of that for other things you can buy, so why pre-order a game at all, especially these games that don't come out for a year. That's insane. Even if you order a certain car with the options you want, and color, etc, you STILL test drove it, and you know EXACTLY what you are getting. There's also no other option if the dealership doesn't have that car in stock. I mean, the car is actually "out" already.

I don't get the gaming industry these days.

psykobilly · March 2013

Back to the themeparks for you...

Darkfall has safe zones now, so it's your choice if you leave the safe zone or not. You could spend all your time gathering away in safety if you wanted to... but you'd be missing the point of the game.

danwest58 · March 2013

Originally posted by psykobilly

Back to the themeparks for you...

Darkfall has safe zones now, so it's your choice if you leave the safe zone or not. You could spend all your time gathering away in safety if you wanted to... but you'd be missing the point of the game.

And this is why there will never be a AAA rated Sandbox MMO, everyone thinks that it has to hurt to play one. Truth is you will never have a AAA rated Sandbox MMO using old school 1997 rule sets. They worked great then when the MMO crowd was younger, now that the crowd is older and has much less time to play they will not go for the old school rule sets.

Zoltos · March 2013

Unfortunally Darkfall was never a new player friendly game. Many people who tried it had the same sad experience. Getting ganked and loosing all your stuff is very hard for a new player. But not all players in Darkfall are that evil. No actually most players are very helpfull to new comers and really wants them to get a good experience from the game. But since it´s a open pvp world there is always a douchbag or two around. But try not to loose faith in the game because of them.

To really experience the game people should join a guild asap. This is where the most fun is. Building up a hamlet or a city with your guild. Protecting this city from raiders. Attacking other player cities. Taking a ship out on the ocean to hunt the kraken and so on. And all this with fast paced fighting where you have to aim to hit, and the risk of loosing your stuff, this game can be the most exciting and a real adrenaline rush.

I played Darkfall 1.0 for almost 2 years and this game has been the best mmorpg fun for me ever. You just have to get over the hard beginning. And as said in DFUW they added safezones...

Remember this:

They can take your stuff, but they can never take your skills and stats! And whatever you got stashed in your bank ofc

Onodrim · March 2013

Full loot can be really fun, especially if you are the one getting it! It can also be a nerve-wracking and heart-pounding adrenaline rush! Just to let you know where I'm coming from, I love the rush of full loot pvp.

This game however (even with the full loot pvp) is terrible. I can't play it. I bought 2 subs (because my son and I both had Darkfall subs). This game is a step backwards, It is terrible.

I encourage everyone to try full loot PVP if you can, it is even more exciting if you love pixels because they are always at a huge risk to be gained or lost in an instant! What a rush!

But don't waste your time here, wait for a good one.

Just my 2c, hope this helps.

FromHell · March 2013

Full loot is pretty unforgiving, I wish it had something like the Blood and Glory servers in AoC where you have hardcore PvP without guards but if you die you only lose one random item from your inventory to another player.

Onodrim · March 2013

Originally posted by FromHell
Full loot is pretty unforgiving, I wish it had something like the Blood and Glory servers in AoC where you have hardcore PvP without guards but if you die you only lose one random item from your inventory to another player.

Yeah but in DF (can't speak for long term in UW ofc) most players (and I am casual) have so many sets of gear that you actually go into a seige planning that you may die a few times and lose a few sets of gear. Its great to get sets of gear, don't get me wrong, but losing one doesn't really hurt that bad, it's more of a minor setback.

It's nowhere near like losing some set you grinded a dungeon for a month for in WoW, it's more like losing a couple hours of grinding, at most, once you've been playing awhile.

DONT TAKE THIS AS AN ENDORSEMENT OF THIS GAME, RATHER FULL LOOT PVP IN GENERAL.

THIS GAME IS BAD. DON'T BUY IT.

Ramanadjinn · March 2013

Those newbie items that guy stole from you probably weren't worth as much as you thought.

Nor would they take someone who wasn't totally new hours to obtain.

Just look at the fellow that killed you. he obtained them in seconds.

Full loot isn't the problem with these games. Your perception and their bad mechanics and gameplay alongside the looting is the issue.

Crunchy222 · March 2013

Originally posted by HappyFunBall
When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.

I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!

Been dying for a new AND quality tripple-A sandbox game and still haven't found it in 4 years of searching. Despite what people define as a sandbox, there actually does NOT have to be ganking and full-looting/griefing.

Wasn't there a precursor to this simply called Darkfall? I could have sworn I played that, and was enjoying it, until a much higher leveled player ganked me, and stole all my newbie items I spent hours obtain. I unstalled it 5 mins later. Wow, that's so much fun! I might as well go schools, beat up kids, and steal their lunch money. Not only is there 0 challenge there, that $2 of lunch money could buy me, well, nothing.

Please tell me this game isn't exactly like I described.

Oh yeah, I'll never pre-order a game, EVER, without at least playing the beta. Then they give you beta access, so essecially, you are PAYING to test their game. No. Just no.

I mean, what else besides a game do and can people pre-order? There's not a lot of that for other things you can buy, so why pre-order a game at all, especially these games that don't come out for a year. That's insane. Even if you order a certain car with the options you want, and color, etc, you STILL test drove it, and you know EXACTLY what you are getting. There's also no other option if the dealership doesn't have that car in stock. I mean, the car is actually "out" already.

I don't get the gaming industry these days.

Yea stick with themeparks.

I could try to explain how it works, since it seems you read a post back in 2008 about what a full loot game was like and have based your opinion on full loot games ever since, mixing what was said in that lone post with the only thing you do seem to know about mmorpgs, and thats themepark mechanics.

See, your not farming for two weeks to get blue and purple raid gear thats a bitch to get, then losing it to a level 1 billion player (no levels) crying a bunch then rage quitting, though i think if you set foot in DF something very similar would happen to you.

Gear is easy to obtain, it is lost one way or another, it will break (no repair for gear) on pve fights, or will get looted.

Since gear is easy to obtain, most people wont take your actual gear, just consumable and any material gained while farming that will suit their needs, the rest rots on your tombstone for you or a passer-by-er to take.

The real good gear, your going to use for clan wars, and your clan will probably be the reason you have the gear to begin with.

What this all does is it changes how people should act in game, and how mundane tasks are treated...which to many provides excitement. Your themepark you hop from resource node to node without a care, its boring, you get your highe end loot and its forever there, pvp is boring since you just reappear as is in 30 seconds and your back in the fight...which relegates pvp to either numbers or who mashes the buttons the best.

For someone like me, i just dont understand you themepark pvpers, who are proclaimed to be hardcore because you queue all day in pvp...while you wont touch a game with any form of pvp risk

Yes the game is full of gankers, you will only get griefed if you are incredibly stupid and refuse to change your habits, and rightfully so. People with half a brain will bank their gear every 20min where you would keep that stuff on you for two weeks, guranteeing you lose it all. Some one with an IQ greather than that of a houseplant will have situational awareness...where are there, where are player hubs, where are hostile clans and players, where are friendly clans...then base what they do off that knowledge. Want to farm near those mob spawns by that enemy clan? better bring some friends... want to farm something in an unknown area...well do a lap around the area...see whos around.

Worst case scenario you man up, learn to play, and deal with loss like a champ, rather than cry about those worhtless pixles you lost. The worst thing about death in DF isnt losing your gear, its the fact that someone beat you...really just like any other pvp game.

aWRAY · March 2013

Happy Fun Ball... Oh the irony.

Turn that frown upsideown my friend. Put a little more time into a game before you quit. You'll never know what you might be missing out on

Crunchy222 · March 2013

Originally posted by aWRAY
Happy Fun Ball... Oh the irony.

Turn that frown upsideown my friend. Put a little more time into a game before you quit. You'll never know what you might be missing out on

Not sure how someone spends 4 years looking for a sandbox, then rage quits when he loses his cloth gear and near dead goblin axe...all of which took him an amazing amount of time to aquire.

Really this guy deserves a really dumbed down themepark...and will probably stuggle at it.

Serignuad · March 2013

I enjoy Darkfall, but I have to say that I really enjoyed Asherons Call (Darktides) system of PvP looting.

Basically it boiled down to the higher level you are the more items you would lose when killed -along with a subsystem of being able to semi-insure that that some items wouldn't be at risk by carrying similiar items that were more valuable than what you wanted to protect.. ie "Death Items".

Basically Darkfalls system provides a built-in buffer from younger Players, protecting them from the harshest aspect of losing their items while high levels would drop dozens of items when killed -though granted the Death Item system could be lenient for those that knew how it worked.

TwoThreeFour · March 2013

Originally posted by HappyFunBall
When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.

I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!

Been dying for a new AND quality tripple-A sandbox game and still haven't found it in 4 years of searching. Despite what people define as a sandbox, there actually does NOT have to be ganking and full-looting/griefing.

Wasn't there a precursor to this simply called Darkfall? I could have sworn I played that, and was enjoying it, until a much higher leveled player ganked me, and stole all my newbie items I spent hours obtain. I unstalled it 5 mins later. Wow, that's so much fun! I might as well go schools, beat up kids, and steal their lunch money. Not only is there 0 challenge there, that $2 of lunch money could buy me, well, nothing.

Please tell me this game isn't exactly like I described.

Oh yeah, I'll never pre-order a game, EVER, without at least playing the beta. Then they give you beta access, so essecially, you are PAYING to test their game. No. Just no.

I mean, what else besides a game do and can people pre-order? There's not a lot of that for other things you can buy, so why pre-order a game at all, especially these games that don't come out for a year. That's insane. Even if you order a certain car with the options you want, and color, etc, you STILL test drove it, and you know EXACTLY what you are getting. There's also no other option if the dealership doesn't have that car in stock. I mean, the car is actually "out" already.

I don't get the gaming industry these days.

So I take it you believe those who play villains in movies, are actually very bad people in real life?

Furthermore, a proper sandbox needs to give a lot of freedom to its players. Through freedom, the possibility of acting in a manner that another person doesn't like, appears.

BigHatLogan · March 2013

The problem with Darkfall isn't/wasn't the full looting. It was pretty easy to have multiple sets of gear stored away in the bank. The real problem with Darkfall is that it is f*$%ing boring as all hell to have to shoot or bonk stuff literally tens of thousands of times before you can actually participate in PVP with any hope of winning. I've always liked the risk/reward style of pvp looting, but i just couldn't deal with the grind. A lot of players nowadays need more than just the potential for rewards and advancement in order to get them to play an mmorpg. Players are starting to realize that what they are doing just isn't fun, and they quit. End game pvp in darkfall might be the most fun gameplay in any videogame ever made, but if people can't stomach bonking a goblin over the head 100000 times first then they will never know.

Vidir · March 2013

What do you expect? It is a full gank game only for gankers rest look elsewere.

Sovrath · March 2013

Originally posted by HappyFunBall
When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.

I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!

Maybe because that stuff you lost can be gathered relatively quickly and, if you have played "right" you will have replacments in your bank.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Maelwydd · March 2013

While I understand why some games have full loot and that some players enjoy the thrill/rush involved I never quite understood the logic.

The logic is that full loot means that you take a risk of losing stuff. But then you have several sets in the bank in case you loose the stuff...so waht exactly is the risk.

Also, in full loot games items are quick and easy to come by so they are kind ot worthless so what is the desire to obtain them.

To me it always seems that those that talk about risk and loss are just using it as an excuse for other motives.

I prefer my PvP to be competative, something MMO's rarely provide. Or to be realistic but game mechanics and the way players behave never reflects the realism the mechanic provides.

The main problem I see with games with full loot mechanics is that there really isn't any downside just attacking lower levels. The fight isn't for the loot, it is worthless and easily replaced. it isn't for the challenge as fights are never fair. It is for something else and while I have a good idea what it is, when stated people always hide behind the challenge or the risk.

It takes a certain kind of player to play full loot games and I fully admit I am not that kind of player. But I am very glad of the fact based on my conclusions.

TwoThreeFour · March 2013

Originally posted by Maelwydd
While I understand why some games have full loot and that some players enjoy the thrill/rush involved I never quite understood the logic.

The logic is that full loot means that you take a risk of losing stuff. But then you have several sets in the bank in case you loose the stuff...so waht exactly is the risk.

Also, in full loot games items are quick and easy to come by so they are kind ot worthless so what is the desire to obtain them.

To me it always seems that those that talk about risk and loss are just using it as an excuse for other motives.

I prefer my PvP to be competative, something MMO's rarely provide. Or to be realistic but game mechanics and the way players behave never reflects the realism the mechanic provides.

The main problem I see with games with full loot mechanics is that there really isn't any downside just attacking lower levels. The fight isn't for the loot, it is worthless and easily replaced. it isn't for the challenge as fights are never fair. It is for something else and while I have a good idea what it is, when stated people always hide behind the challenge or the risk.

It takes a certain kind of player to play full loot games and I fully admit I am not that kind of player. But I am very glad of the fact based on my conclusions.

Full loot mechanics can look very differentely and it is absolutely not necessary to design it so that there is no downside to attacking lower levels.

I do agree with that the a lot of the risk is mitigated if the game is designed in such manner that the equip lost is very easy to replace.

Cecropia · March 2013

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by HappyFunBall
When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.

I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!

Maybe because that stuff you lost can be gathered relatively quickly and, if you have played "right" you will have replacments in your bank.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Ding, ding, ding!

Also, like they say in EVE: "never fly a ship you are not willing to lose".

Maelwydd · March 2013

Originally posted by Cecropia

Ding, ding, ding!

Also, like they say in EVE: "never fly a ship you are not willing to lose".

It certainly is a case that people with time to spare and nothing more valuable to spend their time on are ok with that idea but most people play a game for fun and having to replace stuf time and time again is simply a waste of peoples spare time. When I was younger, didn't have responsibilities and could play all day I probably wouldn't have a problem with it but now, no thanks. I play for fun and if I want to PvP i pick up a good non RPG PvP game.

aRtFuLThinG · March 2013

The problem is never full-loot imo, the problem is the question of impunity.

Ganking/attacking a lower level player should be like AoW - there should be a proper bounty / penalty system to increase the risk of it, thus encouraging more fair encounters and larger scale warfares instead.

asdar · March 2013

Originally posted by HappyFunBall
When I hear "full-loot", I stay far away.
I really have no idea, in general, how people play a gave that makes you spend 4 hours gathering stuff (or 2 weeks) just to lose it ALL to a level bazillion character who ganks you, loots every last item, just because he can. Meaning, there was absolutely nothing it in for him, besides griefing you. Weee!
Been dying for a new AND quality tripple-A sandbox game and still haven't found it in 4 years of searching. Despite what people define as a sandbox, there actually does NOT have to be ganking and full-looting/griefing.
Wasn't there a precursor to this simply called Darkfall? I could have sworn I played that, and was enjoying it, until a much higher leveled player ganked me, and stole all my newbie items I spent hours obtain. I unstalled it 5 mins later. Wow, that's so much fun! I might as well go schools, beat up kids, and steal their lunch money. Not only is there 0 challenge there, that $2 of lunch money could buy me, well, nothing.
Please tell me this game isn't exactly like I described.
Oh yeah, I'll never pre-order a game, EVER, without at least playing the beta. Then they give you beta access, so essecially, you are PAYING to test their game. No. Just no.
I mean, what else besides a game do and can people pre-order? There's not a lot of that for other things you can buy, so why pre-order a game at all, especially these games that don't come out for a year. That's insane. Even if you order a certain car with the options you want, and color, etc, you STILL test drove it, and you know EXACTLY what you are getting. There's also no other option if the dealership doesn't have that car in stock. I mean, the car is actually "out" already.
I don't get the gaming industry these days.

I think this deserves a polite response. It may be that the game is not for you, and that's all right, not every game should be for everyone.

I think your idea of losing your gear or taking hours to gather gear is where you are mistaken. In Darkfall gear doesn't mean as much and it's easy to get.

In ten minutes you should have gear that is more than good enough to compete with anyone that's played less than a week. If anything it's the best game as far as equal PvP at low levels. I know within one hour I had a 2h sword, a staff and a bow. The first time you lose your stuff it seems tragic, but it's not. You just go kill the mob with the weapon you want is.

If you can drop the gear centric mindset you can see that this constant gear exchange leads to an importance in crafting and trade. The lack of super weapons means that PvP is more competitive. The demand leads to supply and that leads to competition which keeps prices low. If you're in a guild you'll almost definitely find someone willing to gift you gear they made to raise their level.

If you lose every single fight, it won't be because your gear is bad.

As far as Higher level players killing you, well, I treat other players like I'd treat an unbeatable mob in a PvE. I stay away from them. There's no floating text or red dot to give you away. If you look at it the right way then a fully armored enemy is exciting. I've watched lots of players go by that could have easily killed me.

It forces you to pay attention to your surroundings, and could be a good thing.

My own vision for the perfect game is Darkfall, but with no level for skills or stats. Just start with everyone equal at max level. Then all PvP is pretty equal, every mob is somewhat a challenge. Then the game becomes what you can build develop or conquer and no grind fest to stay competitive.

snapfusion · March 2013

Dont let anyone tell you otherwise, yes its a full loot gankfest. It doesnt matter how much else there is (or isnt) available to do in this game, eveyone you come across will try to kill you and if they do will loot you dry and leave you to respawn naked at your bind post. There are little to no exceptions to this rule.

asdar · March 2013

Originally posted by snapfusion
Dont let anyone tell you otherwise, yes its a full loot gankfest. It doesnt matter how much else there is (or isnt) available to do in this game, eveyone you come across will try to kill you and if they do will loot you dry and leave you to respawn naked at your bind post. There are little to no exceptions to this rule.

Don't believe this, it's not true. Low level players won't try to kill you, they're more scared of you than you are of them. Guild members or allies won't try to kill you, they're on your side.

It is a PvP game, if you don't want PvP then the games might not be for you. It's not nearly so lopsided as you think, unless maybe you're the worst player ever, and I'm not trying to insult you or anyone. I'm not all that good at PvP, and I didn't lose every 1 vs 1 fight. You'll get fair fights and fights that are lopsided in your favor pretty frequently.

My favorite players are the ones that jump in when everything seems stacked against them, and there's lots of those in Darkfall.

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So is this a full on gank and grief festival?

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