Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Disappointed engineer.

itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

I've had my share of disappointments when it comes to devs doing weird things post launch but never like I've seen in this game.

I've posted on multiple reasons why before, the shoddy economy, the lack of DE metas, the lack of concern the devs have for squashing bugs in the three weakest and subsequently least played classes, the list goes on.

But one of the things that bugs me was the lack of roleplay, it showed in the personal stories big time. Engineers weren't just engineers because they were given things to use that magically reformed and were useable again after a timer. They were given special knowledge and the nack to fix things and put things together. Apparently no one there at Anet thought about this while writing or developing the game and it shows. Throughout the personal story one runs into problems that could have easily been fixed by the engineer. Even in WvW engineers aren't allowed to repair anything even siege equipment.

The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater. That was the final straw for me. The idea that they couldn't get the basic rules of behavior right for combat for this class just baffles the imagination. And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse how most abilities on this class deal with explosions and heat but somehow doesn't catch anything on fire, you have to trait into that for it to work and then burning only lasts a few seconds, bleeds are the same way, as if bullets and shrapnel wouldn't already cause bleeding in the first place.

And then there was the whole mounts thing. I thought about it and originally I was against mounts but as I look back I realize just how wrong I was about that. There are plenty of RL gadgets to get around faster, even those that are based on steam power are in the museums, so why can't the abilities of the engineer reflect that knowledge properly, why isn't someone on the Anet team making a case about this, why did they drop the ball on engineers being as uneducated as the begger on the corner?

As a last minute Adventurer class When running everywhere one shouldn't have to equip and unequip a kit to run faster while others of the same type of class get a permanent out of combat speed boost. That's right, engineers were suddenly changed to an adventurer class last minute before launch instead of a Heavy Armor wearing class like how other games portrayed this type of personna. And because of this this class has been broken, it cannot fulfill one of the new Arenanet trinity types, DPS, doesn't get a faster run speed, and all of it's traits are for support/CC. It's been like this since launch, you play any other class and there's a symmetry, a sense of balance that makes the class feel right even with the bugs that necros and rangers contend with they have that symmetry, not the engineers. It's pure chaos.

I found another title that looks more promising then this one because they seem to understand what this knowledge brings as far as benefits. I'll be watching it closely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ynmn3DjIDqA#t=117s

What I don't understand is why is this the only other game in existence (other then World of Warcraft to my knowledge) that has motorcycles as mounts, when there are plenty of other titles out there that have steamtek in their lore. Why is it that an Indy game can get this personna so right, this knowledge right when a AAA title can't even get the weapons to work like the laws of physics demand.

«1

Comments

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    literally ranting about not applying conditions with every hit and motocycles. 
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer.  I also have a 30ish warrior.  Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.  

     

    I do think the ranger would be ok if there was something to do with the pets in dungeons other than die and lose 40% of your dps.  Something like a sacrifice that the Warlocks had in WoW.  Kill your pet and get a buff, but you are stronger with the pet out.  At least my ranger is fun.  Can't say the same for the engineer and the necro.

     

    I don't know how to fix engineers as their lack of weapon choices and skills are keeping me from maxing that toon out.  And don't say kits are great because they aren't...they are snore inducing.

     

    Necro's got some love in the previous patch but they still are not very fun to play.  Playing a toon that counts on conditions is pretty tough with a 25 condition cap.  Not to mention the lack of combo finishers and hilariously useless "pets".  

     

    Edit:  OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills.  Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.

  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member

    Well what can I say, Itgrowls. I recall a bunch of the things you mentioned being continually discussed on various forums long before the game launched. I even remember people arguing whether the Engineer belonged in game at all after the class reveal.

    Long story short, Arena Net made their choices known back then and the GW2 cheeraleading squad backed them to the hilt and spewed derision down on anyone who suggested Areana Net's vision was anything but perfect. So now that the honeymoon period has worn off and some fans are seeing the game in a different light, well sorry but I'm afraid its a little too late. The game is what it is and I serioulsy doubt if they are going to go back to the drawing board to redesign core game elements at this stage. You reap what you sow.

    image

    If you don’t do stupid things while you’re young, you’ll have nothing to smile about when you’re old.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Engineer was my main  and honestly i never felt like one. I wonder why they even call them enginner. 

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member

    "The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater."

    "weapons to work like the laws of physics demand."

     

    RUserious?

    Its a fantasy computer game. It has like....magic...and stuff. lol

    Logical failure. Are you now expert on "laws of physics of Tyria"?

  • avalon1000avalon1000 Kihei, HIPosts: 754Member
    My engineer still sits at level 57. Since then I have leveled a thief and ranger to 80 and like both of those classes more. Also, working on a Gladiator, but not too seriously.  The engineer class should have pet small robots that somewhat mirror ranger pets in a robot sort of way. I do like the flamethrower though....
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    literally ranting about not applying conditions with every hit and motocycles. 

    oh shut up bro. Engineers have reason to QQ. The class sucks ass. close to Warios in terms of suckyness

    image

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon
    Lets face it, GW2 has story take a pack seat, and by back seat its in the trunk. Its story is... well... relatively weak. The 'lore' and all can be considered good in the back workings but anything done up front is just at times a bit cringeworthy to say the least.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer.  I also have a 30ish warrior.  Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.  

    Edit:  OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills.  Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.

    Warrior. :)

    I blame pvp balance and massive mismanagement of personnel for the problems. wasn't this supposed to be a separate behavior system between pvp and pve? That's what i read prior to launch so that this wouldn't be world of warcraft cataclysm hunters all over again only this time costing massively more money to rebuild your toon every single time they scewed something up on the engineer...

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by tintilinic

    "The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater."

    "weapons to work like the laws of physics demand."

     

    RUserious?

    Its a fantasy computer game. It has like....magic...and stuff. lol

    Logical failure. Are you now expert on "laws of physics of Tyria"?

    That logical fallacy is old, physics are physics if you believe your grenades should fly thru water like they do in the air there's a magical fairy bridge I'll sell you right now

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer.  I also have a 30ish warrior.  Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.  

    Edit:  OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills.  Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.

    Warrior. :)

    I blame pvp balance and massive mismanagement of personnel for the problems. wasn't this supposed to be a separate behavior system between pvp and pve? That's what i read prior to launch so that this wouldn't be world of warcraft cataclysm hunters all over again only this time costing massively more money to rebuild your toon every single time they scewed something up on the engineer...

    Warriors thee most shitty class in WvW at the moment.

    Do you play Warrior?

    101 blades only work on brainless NPC. Not real dynamics...

    image

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tintilinic

    "The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater."

    "weapons to work like the laws of physics demand."

     

    RUserious?

    Its a fantasy computer game. It has like....magic...and stuff. lol

    Logical failure. Are you now expert on "laws of physics of Tyria"?

    OP - "And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse..."

     

    You musta missed that Tintilnic.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer.  I also have a 30ish warrior.  Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.  

    Edit:  OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills.  Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.

    Warrior. :)

    I blame pvp balance and massive mismanagement of personnel for the problems. wasn't this supposed to be a separate behavior system between pvp and pve? That's what i read prior to launch so that this wouldn't be world of warcraft cataclysm hunters all over again only this time costing massively more money to rebuild your toon every single time they scewed something up on the engineer...

    Warriors thee most shitty class in WvW at the moment.

    Do you play Warrior?

    101 blades only work on brainless NPC. Not real dynamics...

    Hate to break it to yeah, but WvW is only 1 aspect of the game. Warriors can run Arah explores solo, that's not balanced, that's OP when you can run 5 man content without 5 men.

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by tintilinic

    "The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater."

    "weapons to work like the laws of physics demand."

     

    RUserious?

    Its a fantasy computer game. It has like....magic...and stuff. lol

    Logical failure. Are you now expert on "laws of physics of Tyria"?

    OP - "And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse..."

     

    You musta missed that Tintilnic.

    You must have missed "Logical failure" in my post.

    Originally posted by itgrowls

    That logical fallacy is old, physics are physics if you believe your grenades should fly thru water like they do in the air there's a magical fairy bridge I'll sell you right now

    Oh yes, we should now revisit every fantasy game and check do they abide the "laws of physics"
    You do realize what "fantasy" means lol Thats your logical failure.

    Again are you expert on "physics of Tyria"?

  • VolmokVolmok Cluj-NapocaPosts: 63Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by Mardukk

    I have an 80 necro and 80 ranger and and 30 engineer.  I also have a 30ish warrior.  Guess which class seems the most powerful...lol.  

    Edit:  OP I blame PvP "balance" for most of the bland pointless skills.  Too bad they didn't stick to their original ideas and separate PvE and PvP abilities.

    Warrior. :)

    I blame pvp balance and massive mismanagement of personnel for the problems. wasn't this supposed to be a separate behavior system between pvp and pve? That's what i read prior to launch so that this wouldn't be world of warcraft cataclysm hunters all over again only this time costing massively more money to rebuild your toon every single time they scewed something up on the engineer...

    Warriors thee most shitty class in WvW at the moment.

    Do you play Warrior?

    101 blades only work on brainless NPC. Not real dynamics...

    I Play a warrior and did not touch the 100 blades spec. I am overwhelmed by badges drops and I am not ignored by any of the WvW allies since they see I do not reply on one ability to kill players.

    Many warriors think that they sole role is to immobilize and use that one ability, please try to step out of the "trend" box that other player impose on so many classes.

    On topic:

    My 1st 80 was and engineer and I had fun with it for about 2 weeks aftrer reaching level cap. I occasionally play him, but no more than 2 hours, because something is missing from the class and I personally cannot find a way around it.

    So I think you are not alone, since I usually see about 2-3 engineers in a WvW week, and most of the times they are low level and never come back after a day's worth of play; I guess they realize the class is not so fun in WvW (can't speak for PvE as I really do not do PvE in GW2).

     

    V.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,001Member Uncommon

    WvW is a lot harder to balance than SPvP.  So to say that warriors are the worst isn't a fair assumption.  Do melee classes, such as warrior and thief, have a harder time?  Of course, but they do have ranged weapons too; as do all classes.

    As for engineer, i'll be leveling one up soon.  It looks really fun to play.  The OP seems to be mostly upset about the "steampunk" realism of the class.. or something like that..?

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    As a last minute Adventurer class When running everywhere one shouldn't have to equip and unequip a kit to run faster while others of the same type of class get a permanent out of combat speed boost. That's right, engineers were suddenly changed to an adventurer class last minute before launch instead of a Heavy Armor wearing class like how other games portrayed this type of personna. And because of this this class has been broken, it cannot fulfill one of the new Arenanet trinity types, DPS, doesn't get a faster run speed, and all of it's traits are for support/CC.

    It's been an Adventurer class since the reveal trailer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGEOIKNRF2Y

    Steampunk isn't supposed to be realistic. It's deliberately over the top. That's why engies have rocket jumps, healing turrets, burning kicks and many other silly gadgets.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,800Member Uncommon

    I'm a chemical engineer.

    I know next to nothing of naval engineering, space engineering, nuclear engineering, contruction engineering and so on and so forth.

    GW2 engineers know about fighting using their gadgets, turrets, grenades, bonbs, etc.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • woeyewoeye MunichPosts: 119Member

    Yeah, the PvE class balance in GW2 leaves a LOT to be desired. In many cases it feels like WoW 1.0. Which is even more worse. Because you have to ask yourself: with a game like WoW out for many nears now, several problems should be known well by this time. Did the developer team of GW2 ever played any other MMO at all? I mean, many of GW2's problem at not new. Not at all. Yet ANet makes the same mistakes, again:

    • The concept of hybrids rarely works because players tend to favor min/max builds. Hybrid classes in WoW suffered many years because of this (hybrid tax)
    • Pets and AoE in dungeons. This was a big issue for hunters for quite some time and hunters focused on non-pet builds (MM, SV). Yet, in GW2 you cannot do this.
    • Dots and cap. WoW had this problem, too ...
    • High health pool, high armor and super high DPS vs ranged classes. Again, WoW had those issues, too. Blizzard solved it by designing different encounters. Because if you factor in "uptime" you can keep melee DPS in control. 
    And so on ...
  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by woeye

    Yeah, the PvE class balance in GW2 leaves a LOT to be desired. In many cases it feels like WoW 1.0. Which is even more worse. Because you have to ask yourself: with a game like WoW out for many nears now, several problems should be known well by this time. Did the developer team of GW2 ever played any other MMO at all? I mean, many of GW2's problem at not new. Not at all. Yet ANet makes the same mistakes, again:

    • The concept of hybrids rarely works because players tend to favor min/max builds. Hybrid classes in WoW suffered many years because of this (hybrid tax)
    • Pets and AoE in dungeons. This was a big issue for hunters for quite some time and hunters focused on non-pet builds (MM, SV). Yet, in GW2 you cannot do this.
    • Dots and cap. WoW had this problem, too ...
    • High health pool, high armor and super high DPS vs ranged classes. Again, WoW had those issues, too. Blizzard solved it by designing different encounters. Because if you factor in "uptime" you can keep melee DPS in control. 
    And so on ...

    Min/maxing in GW2 often means going "hybrid". Fully min/max is very very very rarely viable (unless you have somewhat static group and plan out all 5 builds and some of those builds will certanly be "hybrid").

    Ranger problems are bad, but i doubt they arent working on a fixing them.

    Every class has power builds available. You are certanly not locked into condi build. You can even make different condi build that uses different conditions (chillomancer for instance etc..)

    Just because stacking those build works in 1 path in 1 dungeon doesnt make it "super". Funny thing is when those people go out of that 1 path they get instagibbed and face dirt in >5 seconds. When that path is revamped...

  • Teh_AxiTeh_Axi HalifaxPosts: 380Member

    10/10

    The bit about the motorbikes is whats makes this post great.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    I've had my share of disappointments when it comes to devs doing weird things post launch but never like I've seen in this game.

    I've posted on multiple reasons why before, the shoddy economy, the lack of DE metas, the lack of concern the devs have for squashing bugs in the three weakest and subsequently least played classes, the list goes on.

    But one of the things that bugs me was the lack of roleplay, it showed in the personal stories big time. Engineers weren't just engineers because they were given things to use that magically reformed and were useable again after a timer. They were given special knowledge and the nack to fix things and put things together. Apparently no one there at Anet thought about this while writing or developing the game and it shows. Throughout the personal story one runs into problems that could have easily been fixed by the engineer. Even in WvW engineers aren't allowed to repair anything even siege equipment.

    The design of this class defies physics and that's the final straw for me. Weapons that are slow and sluggish on land work as intended and often even faster then physics will allow underwater. That was the final straw for me. The idea that they couldn't get the basic rules of behavior right for combat for this class just baffles the imagination. And I've heard the logical fallacy argument before that it's a fantasy game, well that doesn't excuse how most abilities on this class deal with explosions and heat but somehow doesn't catch anything on fire, you have to trait into that for it to work and then burning only lasts a few seconds, bleeds are the same way, as if bullets and shrapnel wouldn't already cause bleeding in the first place.

    And then there was the whole mounts thing. I thought about it and originally I was against mounts but as I look back I realize just how wrong I was about that. There are plenty of RL gadgets to get around faster, even those that are based on steam power are in the museums, so why can't the abilities of the engineer reflect that knowledge properly, why isn't someone on the Anet team making a case about this, why did they drop the ball on engineers being as uneducated as the begger on the corner?

    As a last minute Adventurer class When running everywhere one shouldn't have to equip and unequip a kit to run faster while others of the same type of class get a permanent out of combat speed boost. That's right, engineers were suddenly changed to an adventurer class last minute before launch instead of a Heavy Armor wearing class like how other games portrayed this type of personna. And because of this this class has been broken, it cannot fulfill one of the new Arenanet trinity types, DPS, doesn't get a faster run speed, and all of it's traits are for support/CC. It's been like this since launch, you play any other class and there's a symmetry, a sense of balance that makes the class feel right even with the bugs that necros and rangers contend with they have that symmetry, not the engineers. It's pure chaos.

    I found another title that looks more promising then this one because they seem to understand what this knowledge brings as far as benefits. I'll be watching it closely.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ynmn3DjIDqA#t=117s

    What I don't understand is why is this the only other game in existence (other then World of Warcraft to my knowledge) that has motorcycles as mounts, when there are plenty of other titles out there that have steamtek in their lore. Why is it that an Indy game can get this personna so right, this knowledge right when a AAA title can't even get the weapons to work like the laws of physics demand.

    It is easy - there are no MOUNTS IN TYRIA LORE - what don't people understand about that? As far as steampunk, only the Charr are that the rest are not.

     

    This is a game? You want laws of physics? Do you know how hard that is to program in?

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Edit: Meh, these types of threads really aren't worth it.  There also needs to be a "delete your own reply" type function.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Edit: Meh, these types of threads really aren't worth it.  There also needs to be a "delete your own reply" type function.

    Specially not when the OP is an "usual suspect".

    It's not the engineer class he doesn't like, it's the whole game, and his agenda is to bash it at every opportunity, often using misinformation and lies and also insulting the actual players who enjoy the game (apparently we all have "stockholm syndrom").

    Read the post history... it's instructive.

    And now his new non-argument is that in a fantasy video game, some things defy our laws of physics. In a game where characters run around casting fireballs out of their hands or instantly teleport from one place to another either just clicking on a map or using what looks like a Stargate.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by tintilinic
    Originally posted by woeye

    Yeah, the PvE class balance in GW2 leaves a LOT to be desired. In many cases it feels like WoW 1.0. Which is even more worse. Because you have to ask yourself: with a game like WoW out for many nears now, several problems should be known well by this time. Did the developer team of GW2 ever played any other MMO at all? I mean, many of GW2's problem at not new. Not at all. Yet ANet makes the same mistakes, again:

    • The concept of hybrids rarely works because players tend to favor min/max builds. Hybrid classes in WoW suffered many years because of this (hybrid tax)
    • Pets and AoE in dungeons. This was a big issue for hunters for quite some time and hunters focused on non-pet builds (MM, SV). Yet, in GW2 you cannot do this.
    • Dots and cap. WoW had this problem, too ...
    • High health pool, high armor and super high DPS vs ranged classes. Again, WoW had those issues, too. Blizzard solved it by designing different encounters. Because if you factor in "uptime" you can keep melee DPS in control. 
    And so on ...

    Min/maxing in GW2 often means going "hybrid". Fully min/max is very very very rarely viable (unless you have somewhat static group and plan out all 5 builds and some of those builds will certanly be "hybrid").

    Ranger problems are bad, but i doubt they arent working on a fixing them.

    Every class has power builds available. You are certanly not locked into condi build. You can even make different condi build that uses different conditions (chillomancer for instance etc..)

    Just because stacking those build works in 1 path in 1 dungeon doesnt make it "super". Funny thing is when those people go out of that 1 path they get instagibbed and face dirt in >5 seconds. When that path is revamped...

    you've obviously never played an engineer. Engineers are locked into using Condi damage no matter what you do, it's the only one that will work for engis as burst damage is a joke. And even with condi damage builds you still must contend with your damage being completely nerfed compared to the damage of other classes. For example, My level 43 trap ranger does way more condi damage and can three shot enemies in a level 40 zone, whereas my full exotic condi engineer specced into every piece that increases condi damage 30/30/0/0/10 does way less damage because it's traits are missing the foundations that an adventurer class needs to do such damage. Even the bleeds on my full exotic zerger thief are about 30 points higher per tick then the bleeds on the same engineer. There's definitely alot wrong going on here, and ignoring the problem and saying it doesn't exist won't help the engineer players one bit.

«1
Sign In or Register to comment.