Originally posted by dontadow no grind for me, i can do any dungenon all the content and no one's ever asked me do i have the super duper legendary armor.
^.. which is the whole point none of that gear is needed to complete everything in the game you could actually get by with just rares for most of it.. also i honestly don't think people have palyed many MMOs in their life if they find GW2 a "grind" to get best stat gear
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
We don't want 2nd rank gear and we don't want to run fractals over and over again.
We want EQUAL varieties of obtaining ascended gear.
who is this we?
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
sounds like that's where ascended is headed once they add in more pieces.. it probably will all be craftable at some point.. but for me I see how it effects my gameplay and as things are now it has no effect on how I play or anyone I know plays.. no one is bitching in guild chat because they couldn't complete x dungeon, or x event because they weren't geared well enough or they got smoked in WvW because they didn't have x piece of ascended gear because it's not an issue in those cases.. if it's a principle thing then well not much I can say honestly
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
We don't want 2nd rank gear and we don't want to run fractals over and over again.
We want EQUAL varieties of obtaining ascended gear.
who is this we?
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
You make it sound like it is a massive game changing upgrade. It isnt. You barely get 1% boost for upgrading everything to ascended. I personally wouldnt bother with my alts, if they get them, great, if they dont noone will notice or care in any group outside of fractals.
We don't want 2nd rank gear and we don't want to run fractals over and over again.
We want EQUAL varieties of obtaining ascended gear.
who is this we?
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
You make it sound like it is a massive game changing upgrade. It isnt. You barely get 1% boost for upgrading everything to ascended. I personally wouldnt bother with my alts, if they get them, great, if they dont noone will notice or care in any group outside of fractals.
If you run knight's gear, the boost is over 15% (power and percision are multiplicitive)
If you run zerker gear, the boost is over 30% (power, precision, and critical damage are mulitplicative)
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
We don't want 2nd rank gear and we don't want to run fractals over and over again.
We want EQUAL varieties of obtaining ascended gear.
who is this we?
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
You make it sound like it is a massive game changing upgrade. It isnt. You barely get 1% boost for upgrading everything to ascended. I personally wouldnt bother with my alts, if they get them, great, if they dont noone will notice or care in any group outside of fractals.
If you run knight's gear, the boost is over 15% (power and percision are multiplicitive)
If you run zerker gear, the boost is over 30% (power, precision, and critical damage are mulitplicative)
Sounds like you are talking about individual pieces, rather than total statsand what they convert to. Its certainly not a 30% increase in power.
We don't want 2nd rank gear and we don't want to run fractals over and over again.
We want EQUAL varieties of obtaining ascended gear.
who is this we?
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
You make it sound like it is a massive game changing upgrade. It isnt. You barely get 1% boost for upgrading everything to ascended. I personally wouldnt bother with my alts, if they get them, great, if they dont noone will notice or care in any group outside of fractals.
If you run knight's gear, the boost is over 15% (power and percision are multiplicitive)
If you run zerker gear, the boost is over 30% (power, precision, and critical damage are mulitplicative)
Sounds like you are talking about individual pieces, rather than total statsand what they convert to. Its certainly not a 30% increase in power.
and take into account you can't just min/max damage in a pvp game with active dodging.. if you are in exotics and you fight someone who has the ascended pieces if you are a better player you will win.. also in my time in the game I have never seen anyone not take someone into a dungeon or not want them to help in an event or not want them to help in WvW because they weren't in the "best" stat gear
and yea there is no ascended geat "set" so you do not get a 15%-30% boost in overall effectiveness by adding in the couple of pieces of ascended gear that's out
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
All MMOs have grinding, it's whether an individual perceives that to be a problem for their enjoyment or not.
Lineage and Aion aren't the same game so you can't use them as a defense. GW2 has grinding, repeating events in a zone, WvWvW is grinding, running around the same zone killing the same people may bore players after a while. Gold farming in dungeons for legendaries is grinding, (although it's much easier to buy said gold, but that's another issue for some), Asecended gear for daily laurels is grinding etc.
Some people just don't like how the game is setup and so use the catch all term, 'grinding', as to why it doesn't suit them. The same person may find tiered raiding acceptable in WoW, but finds what GW2 does to be boring. Perception.
If the argument was about MMOs and repetitive content it may have some merit but really trying to make out an MMO doesn't have any, 'grindy', aspects because grinding was worse at some point in the past doesn't really hold much water..
To be honest, if what you are saying was the case, then every single game has tons of grind (doing the same thing over and over again). Last time I checked people playing shooters are doing the same thing over and over and over again. Same for strategies, for single player RPGs and pretty much every other game.
The point of the argument is that GW2 has no, 'grinding', and I'm arguing that grinding is a perceptual thing to a player and a mechanic of the developers.
Since the early days MMOs have had repeatable content put in by developers to keep people playing. It's simply impossible to keep creating different mechanics/content to keep up with how players consume it all. Therefore dailies and other carrots have been created to allow people to work towards something when their actually just doing the same activity over and over.
You mention shooters, and there are many players who enjoy that type of game. But don't they have leveling systems and unlocks as a carrot to keep doing the same thing over and over? That's in place for some of those players to keep hanging on for something till the next map pack comes out or to reward them for literally doing the same thing over and over.
All of that could be considered, 'grinding', by some people. It's half a mechanic of the developers and half a perception by a player. If they are enjoying playing to unlock a sniper rifile then it won't seem half as annoying to someone whose solo purpose is to unlock the thing or is just fed up with doing the same thing over and over.
GW2 has grinding whether it's cash,ascended gear, pvp etc. It really isn't relavent whether you think someone doesn't, 'need' it or not, or whether you think GW2 is the most fun MMO you every had. MMOs are built on repeatable content and GW2 doesn't change this so some people will percieve it as, 'grinding'.
All MMOs have grinding, it's whether an individual perceives that to be a problem for their enjoyment or not.
Lineage and Aion aren't the same game so you can't use them as a defense. GW2 has grinding, repeating events in a zone, WvWvW is grinding, running around the same zone killing the same people may bore players after a while. Gold farming in dungeons for legendaries is grinding, (although it's much easier to buy said gold, but that's another issue for some), Asecended gear for daily laurels is grinding etc.
Some people just don't like how the game is setup and so use the catch all term, 'grinding', as to why it doesn't suit them. The same person may find tiered raiding acceptable in WoW, but finds what GW2 does to be boring. Perception.
If the argument was about MMOs and repetitive content it may have some merit but really trying to make out an MMO doesn't have any, 'grindy', aspects because grinding was worse at some point in the past doesn't really hold much water..
To be honest, if what you are saying was the case, then every single game has tons of grind (doing the same thing over and over again). Last time I checked people playing shooters are doing the same thing over and over and over again. Same for strategies, for single player RPGs and pretty much every other game.
The point of the argument is that GW2 has no, 'grinding', and I'm arguing that grinding is a perceptual thing to a player and a mechanic of the developers.
Since the early days MMOs have had repeatable content put in by developers to keep people playing. It's simply impossible to keep creating different mechanics/content to keep up with how players consume it all. Therefore dailies and other carrots have been created to allow people to work towards something when their actually just doing the same activity over and over.
You mention shooters, and there are many players who enjoy that type of game. But don't they have leveling systems and unlocks as a carrot to keep doing the same thing over and over? That's in place for some of those players to keep hanging on for something till the next map pack comes out or to reward them for literally doing the same thing over and over.
All of that could be considered, 'grinding', by some people. It's half a mechanic of the developers and half a perception by a player. If they are enjoying playing to unlock a sniper rifile then it won't seem half as annoying to someone whose solo purpose is to unlock the thing or is just fed up with doing the same thing over and over.
GW2 has grinding whether it's cash,ascended gear, pvp etc. It really isn't relavent whether you think someone doesn't, 'need' it or not, or whether you think GW2 is the most fun MMO you every had. MMOs are built on repeatable content and GW2 doesn't change this so some people will percieve it as, 'grinding'.
this is true.. think the big argument is people think gw2 is being promoted as a "grind free" game. Which is not true at all, devs have stated you would never need to work for months and months once you reached cap to get gear that allowed you to complete and compete in any content in the game which is 100% true in how this game plays
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ascended gear is better?!? it has like the diference is like +10 then exotic gear
better =/= shinier name
exotic gear you have those main stats and that stone you chose (and no agony resistance), in ascended you get the main stats and the ones with the stone all toghether.. and the diference is from +90 power to +94 power...
Ascended gear is designed for fractals lvl 14+
And if you really want that gear, and dont want to farm fractals what is problem with waiting 1 month?
what would be the point of playing a game if there is no challenge? MAINLY in this game where gear DOESNT make much of a diference..
All MMOs have grinding, it's whether an individual perceives that to be a problem for their enjoyment or not.
Lineage and Aion aren't the same game so you can't use them as a defense. GW2 has grinding, repeating events in a zone, WvWvW is grinding, running around the same zone killing the same people may bore players after a while. Gold farming in dungeons for legendaries is grinding, (although it's much easier to buy said gold, but that's another issue for some), Asecended gear for daily laurels is grinding etc.
Some people just don't like how the game is setup and so use the catch all term, 'grinding', as to why it doesn't suit them. The same person may find tiered raiding acceptable in WoW, but finds what GW2 does to be boring. Perception.
If the argument was about MMOs and repetitive content it may have some merit but really trying to make out an MMO doesn't have any, 'grindy', aspects because grinding was worse at some point in the past doesn't really hold much water..
To be honest, if what you are saying was the case, then every single game has tons of grind (doing the same thing over and over again). Last time I checked people playing shooters are doing the same thing over and over and over again. Same for strategies, for single player RPGs and pretty much every other game.
The point of the argument is that GW2 has no, 'grinding', and I'm arguing that grinding is a perceptual thing to a player and a mechanic of the developers.
Since the early days MMOs have had repeatable content put in by developers to keep people playing. It's simply impossible to keep creating different mechanics/content to keep up with how players consume it all. Therefore dailies and other carrots have been created to allow people to work towards something when their actually just doing the same activity over and over.
You mention shooters, and there are many players who enjoy that type of game. But don't they have leveling systems and unlocks as a carrot to keep doing the same thing over and over? That's in place for some of those players to keep hanging on for something till the next map pack comes out or to reward them for literally doing the same thing over and over.
All of that could be considered, 'grinding', by some people. It's half a mechanic of the developers and half a perception by a player. If they are enjoying playing to unlock a sniper rifile then it won't seem half as annoying to someone whose solo purpose is to unlock the thing or is just fed up with doing the same thing over and over.
GW2 has grinding whether it's cash,ascended gear, pvp etc. It really isn't relavent whether you think someone doesn't, 'need' it or not, or whether you think GW2 is the most fun MMO you every had. MMOs are built on repeatable content and GW2 doesn't change this so some people will percieve it as, 'grinding'.
this is true.. think the big argument is people think gw2 is being promoted as a "grind free" game. Which is not true at all, devs have stated you would never need to work for months and months once you reached cap to get gear that allowed you to complete and compete in any content in the game which is 100% true in how this game plays
I would like to clarify my "no griding" statement. Since i begun playing MMO's i understood that griding is when you have to do something you dont like for a big amount of time in order to progress.
GW2 has so many ways so progress that its not griding, because you dont have to do something you dont like.. or barely.
You must farm stuff, but its depends what you want to do:
WvW -> Badges of Honor
Crafting -> Materials
Gold -> Materials/drops from mobs/chests
sPvP -> Glory
and this is pretty much what a MMORPG is about (in terms of farming).
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
Yah, its pretty obvious to anyone, there are grinds but those are completely optional.
I posted this in another topic, but i'll repost it here.
MMO-Grind is the repetitive process in one sitting, in one place. People are using "grind" in place of content that they don't like.
I have yet to do that in any MMO since Aion (also in WoW classic for reputation), when i grinded XP due to lack of quests, in one specific spot. I have not been compelled to grind in Swtor, AoC, Lotro, or GW2.
I'll elaborate more.
Someone please show me an example where you are forced to grind in GW2 to progress your character. Remember, my definition above, is how i determine "grind" in MMOs. And not just in GW2, but other MMOs. Please give me examples.
I posted this in another topic, but i'll repost it here.
MMO-Grind is the repetitive process in one sitting, in one place. People are using "grind" in place of content that they don't like.
I have yet to do that in any MMO since Aion (also in WoW classic for reputation), when i grinded XP due to lack of quests, in one specific spot. I have not been compelled to grind in Swtor, AoC, Lotro, or GW2.
I'll elaborate more.
Someone please show me an example where you are forced to grind in GW2 to progress your character. Remember, my definition above, is how i determine "grind" in MMOs. And not just in GW2, but other MMOs. Please give me examples.
Running same dungeon (be it normal or raid)/dailies over and over again for gear that you must have in order to be able to mathematically beat next tier content is a grind since in "the good ol days" it might took hundred(s) runs due to RNG/DKP and all the stuff. It has been considerably lessened since then, but still running same dungeon over and over again just to get everyone geared is grind.
SWTOR has endgame grind as content is gear gated.
LOTRO doesnt have, but it did have it when they made painful mistake called radiance.
As with most games,there's an end game grind for stuff. For GW2 the big grinds are for aesthetic things though.
The base power level you are at with a full suit of exotic gear (second highest quality), which isn't hard to get at all, is very high compared to what most people are used to as far as "entry level" end game gear. Enough so that at least for now, getting the ascended gear (current best) available is almost more of a completionist thing.
Getting all the ascended gear will take work. Getting some of it is pretty easy at the moment though.
Most people complaining about grind are complaining about how long it takes to get a legendary weapon. At the moment, the only benefit to getting a legendary weapon is to enjoy having it and to show that you have it. Other than neat weapon skins, they offer no functional advantage over an ordinary exotic weapon at the moment.
When ascended weapons are added, legendary weapons will supposedly be upgraded to have comparable stats to ascended weapons, which is nice. Based on what we've seen so far though, ascended stuff isn't so hard to get that it's worth getting a legendary purely so you don't have to bother with ascended weapons. They have said that legendary weapons will always be "best in slot" though so it's true that if you make one, you're permanently done with anything that can come in the future in that slot. It's a neat bonus but I don't think it'll be as meaningful as some people make it out to be. This isn't like a WoW treadmill where a statistically stronger weapon is available to you every 4 months or so or something.
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
I posted this in another topic, but i'll repost it here.
MMO-Grind is the repetitive process in one sitting, in one place. People are using "grind" in place of content that they don't like.
I have yet to do that in any MMO since Aion (also in WoW classic for reputation), when i grinded XP due to lack of quests, in one specific spot. I have not been compelled to grind in Swtor, AoC, Lotro, or GW2.
I'll elaborate more.
Someone please show me an example where you are forced to grind in GW2 to progress your character. Remember, my definition above, is how i determine "grind" in MMOs. And not just in GW2, but other MMOs. Please give me examples.
Running same dungeon (be it normal or raid)/dailies over and over again for gear that you must have in order to be able to mathematically beat next tier content is a grind since in "the good ol days" it might took hundred(s) runs due to RNG/DKP and all the stuff. It has been considerably lessened since then, but still running same dungeon over and over again just to get everyone geared is grind.
SWTOR has endgame grind as content is gear gated.
LOTRO doesnt have, but it did have it when they made painful mistake called radiance.
GW2 doesnt have it.
I don't consider dungeon runs grinding, because you are in constant motion traversing through paths and exploring the content, as is intended. I consider grinding to be in one particular spot killing the same mobs over and over, for experience or a loot drop.
I posted this in another topic, but i'll repost it here.
MMO-Grind is the repetitive process in one sitting, in one place. People are using "grind" in place of content that they don't like.
I have yet to do that in any MMO since Aion (also in WoW classic for reputation), when i grinded XP due to lack of quests, in one specific spot. I have not been compelled to grind in Swtor, AoC, Lotro, or GW2.
I'll elaborate more.
Someone please show me an example where you are forced to grind in GW2 to progress your character. Remember, my definition above, is how i determine "grind" in MMOs. And not just in GW2, but other MMOs. Please give me examples.
Running same dungeon (be it normal or raid)/dailies over and over again for gear that you must have in order to be able to mathematically beat next tier content is a grind since in "the good ol days" it might took hundred(s) runs due to RNG/DKP and all the stuff. It has been considerably lessened since then, but still running same dungeon over and over again just to get everyone geared is grind.
SWTOR has endgame grind as content is gear gated.
LOTRO doesnt have, but it did have it when they made painful mistake called radiance.
GW2 doesnt have it.
I don't consider dungeon runs grinding, because you are in constant motion traversing through paths and exploring the content, as is intended. I consider grinding to be in one particular spot killing the same mobs over and over, for experience or a loot drop.
Just expnad your "one spot" to a dungeon and its the same thing.
You explore it on the first run. On 56th its a snoozefest.
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
Vanguard. There are more but i guess one name is enough.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
Vanguard. There are more but i guess one name is enough.
Lol. A game where you get to only raid same crap at endgame and thats it? Vanguard is anti open ended endgame
I played Vanguard FYI. It was bad when it launched and got even worse when they added 5 levels.
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
Vanguard. There are more but i guess one name is enough.
Lol. A game where you get to only raid same crap at endgame and thats it? Vanguard is anti open ended endgame
I played Vanguard FYI. It was bad when it launched and got even worse when they added 5 levels.
I had a feeling you would reply with 'lol but it is a raid crap'.
Thanks for proving your bias and that you have no idea about open ended gameplay of Vanguard. And its even more ironic coming from someone who says GW2 is open ended even though majority of focus is on dungeons grind at lvl 80.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I have been reading GW2 posts in this forum for a while now and in pretty much in most of the ones i read there was someone saying that this game has grind. This leaves me a bit sad and shocked. Because GW2 has no grind..
If your objective is to get the best armor, you can go arround the world doing stuff and buy it from the trading post (full armor in 2days-5days).
But you can say "I want to craft my armor!" or I want that good looking armor or I want a legendary.
Now legendary stuff its not better, so you lose nothing in not having one. And even though they are probably the hardest thing to get ingame still not grinding.
Anyone here that has played Lineage 2 or Aion laughs at you when you say that this game has grind... In GW2 you farm stuff, in L2 you grinded your ass out. Farming the same mobs for 2 days, 1h each its not griding.. Killing the same mobs, in the same place for 2 months, 8h a day to get the recipe you want, THAT is griding.
Now stop being such sissies, GW2 its a relaxing walk in the park where you need to farm a bit when you want the hardest thing to get in game.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
Vanguard. There are more but i guess one name is enough.
Lol. A game where you get to only raid same crap at endgame and thats it? Vanguard is anti open ended endgame
I played Vanguard FYI. It was bad when it launched and got even worse when they added 5 levels.
I had a feeling you would reply with 'lol but it is a raid crap'.
Thanks for proving your bias and that you have no idea about open ended gameplay of Vanguard. And its even more ironic coming from someone who says GW2 is open ended even though majority of focus is on dungeons grind at lvl 80.
Yes, your feeling was right. When a game has only raiding as endgame its crap. Its exactly what poster i quoted is complaining about, exactly anti open ended.
Theres no opend ended endgame in Vanguard, thanks for providing examples.
Focus in FW2 is definatwly not dungeons, especially dungeons grind, i see that you havent even played it., but somehow you want to comment on it.
I had a feeling you would reply with 'lol but it is a raid crap'.
Thanks for proving your bias and that you have no idea about open ended gameplay of Vanguard. And its even more ironic coming from someone who says GW2 is open ended even though majority of focus is on dungeons grind at lvl 80.
seen it pretty split my guild does lot of WvW.. lot of open world stuff like the dragons and working on map completion, some enjoy dungeons, some do sPVP, others like farming mats to craft , others like just revisting zones and wandering around doing events and getting karma
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I laugh when people want to force their own definitions of "grinding" on others. For some grinding might be 8 hours every day in Lineage 2 for a recipe, but for others grinding might be farming the same events for gold, xp or armor. GW2 is grindy regardless of the extent of the grind. Farming gets BORING. Boring = grind.
So OP, leave your own definition of grinding with yourself. GW2 can indeed by grindy as hell.
Comments
^.. which is the whole point none of that gear is needed to complete everything in the game you could actually get by with just rares for most of it.. also i honestly don't think people have palyed many MMOs in their life if they find GW2 a "grind" to get best stat gear
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Me and anyone who feels cheated that ascended gear was introduced with fractals being the only real way to get them.
Lower the laurel costs for rings to 15 laurel - that makes 2 weeks of doing dailies and is an equal way to obtaining them.
Make them craftable by using 50 ectos and some other high tier materials.
Offer them for 70-100k karma.
Those are all real options to obtaining them - not what they offer right now.
sounds like that's where ascended is headed once they add in more pieces.. it probably will all be craftable at some point.. but for me I see how it effects my gameplay and as things are now it has no effect on how I play or anyone I know plays.. no one is bitching in guild chat because they couldn't complete x dungeon, or x event because they weren't geared well enough or they got smoked in WvW because they didn't have x piece of ascended gear because it's not an issue in those cases.. if it's a principle thing then well not much I can say honestly
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You make it sound like it is a massive game changing upgrade. It isnt. You barely get 1% boost for upgrading everything to ascended. I personally wouldnt bother with my alts, if they get them, great, if they dont noone will notice or care in any group outside of fractals.
If you run knight's gear, the boost is over 15% (power and percision are multiplicitive)
If you run zerker gear, the boost is over 30% (power, precision, and critical damage are mulitplicative)
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Sounds like you are talking about individual pieces, rather than total statsand what they convert to. Its certainly not a 30% increase in power.
and take into account you can't just min/max damage in a pvp game with active dodging.. if you are in exotics and you fight someone who has the ascended pieces if you are a better player you will win.. also in my time in the game I have never seen anyone not take someone into a dungeon or not want them to help in an event or not want them to help in WvW because they weren't in the "best" stat gear
and yea there is no ascended geat "set" so you do not get a 15%-30% boost in overall effectiveness by adding in the couple of pieces of ascended gear that's out
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The point of the argument is that GW2 has no, 'grinding', and I'm arguing that grinding is a perceptual thing to a player and a mechanic of the developers.
Since the early days MMOs have had repeatable content put in by developers to keep people playing. It's simply impossible to keep creating different mechanics/content to keep up with how players consume it all. Therefore dailies and other carrots have been created to allow people to work towards something when their actually just doing the same activity over and over.
You mention shooters, and there are many players who enjoy that type of game. But don't they have leveling systems and unlocks as a carrot to keep doing the same thing over and over? That's in place for some of those players to keep hanging on for something till the next map pack comes out or to reward them for literally doing the same thing over and over.
All of that could be considered, 'grinding', by some people. It's half a mechanic of the developers and half a perception by a player. If they are enjoying playing to unlock a sniper rifile then it won't seem half as annoying to someone whose solo purpose is to unlock the thing or is just fed up with doing the same thing over and over.
GW2 has grinding whether it's cash,ascended gear, pvp etc. It really isn't relavent whether you think someone doesn't, 'need' it or not, or whether you think GW2 is the most fun MMO you every had. MMOs are built on repeatable content and GW2 doesn't change this so some people will percieve it as, 'grinding'.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
this is true.. think the big argument is people think gw2 is being promoted as a "grind free" game. Which is not true at all, devs have stated you would never need to work for months and months once you reached cap to get gear that allowed you to complete and compete in any content in the game which is 100% true in how this game plays
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ascended gear is better?!? it has like the diference is like +10 then exotic gear
better =/= shinier name
exotic gear you have those main stats and that stone you chose (and no agony resistance), in ascended you get the main stats and the ones with the stone all toghether.. and the diference is from +90 power to +94 power...
Ascended gear is designed for fractals lvl 14+
And if you really want that gear, and dont want to farm fractals what is problem with waiting 1 month?
what would be the point of playing a game if there is no challenge? MAINLY in this game where gear DOESNT make much of a diference..
I would like to clarify my "no griding" statement. Since i begun playing MMO's i understood that griding is when you have to do something you dont like for a big amount of time in order to progress.
GW2 has so many ways so progress that its not griding, because you dont have to do something you dont like.. or barely.
You must farm stuff, but its depends what you want to do:
WvW -> Badges of Honor
Crafting -> Materials
Gold -> Materials/drops from mobs/chests
sPvP -> Glory
and this is pretty much what a MMORPG is about (in terms of farming).
Yah, its pretty obvious to anyone, there are grinds but those are completely optional.
It is very much a "hate" thing.
I posted this in another topic, but i'll repost it here.
MMO-Grind is the repetitive process in one sitting, in one place. People are using "grind" in place of content that they don't like.
I have yet to do that in any MMO since Aion (also in WoW classic for reputation), when i grinded XP due to lack of quests, in one specific spot. I have not been compelled to grind in Swtor, AoC, Lotro, or GW2.
I'll elaborate more.
Someone please show me an example where you are forced to grind in GW2 to progress your character. Remember, my definition above, is how i determine "grind" in MMOs. And not just in GW2, but other MMOs. Please give me examples.
Running same dungeon (be it normal or raid)/dailies over and over again for gear that you must have in order to be able to mathematically beat next tier content is a grind since in "the good ol days" it might took hundred(s) runs due to RNG/DKP and all the stuff. It has been considerably lessened since then, but still running same dungeon over and over again just to get everyone geared is grind.
SWTOR has endgame grind as content is gear gated.
LOTRO doesnt have, but it did have it when they made painful mistake called radiance.
GW2 doesnt have it.
As with most games,there's an end game grind for stuff. For GW2 the big grinds are for aesthetic things though.
The base power level you are at with a full suit of exotic gear (second highest quality), which isn't hard to get at all, is very high compared to what most people are used to as far as "entry level" end game gear. Enough so that at least for now, getting the ascended gear (current best) available is almost more of a completionist thing.
Getting all the ascended gear will take work. Getting some of it is pretty easy at the moment though.
Most people complaining about grind are complaining about how long it takes to get a legendary weapon. At the moment, the only benefit to getting a legendary weapon is to enjoy having it and to show that you have it. Other than neat weapon skins, they offer no functional advantage over an ordinary exotic weapon at the moment.
When ascended weapons are added, legendary weapons will supposedly be upgraded to have comparable stats to ascended weapons, which is nice. Based on what we've seen so far though, ascended stuff isn't so hard to get that it's worth getting a legendary purely so you don't have to bother with ascended weapons. They have said that legendary weapons will always be "best in slot" though so it's true that if you make one, you're permanently done with anything that can come in the future in that slot. It's a neat bonus but I don't think it'll be as meaningful as some people make it out to be. This isn't like a WoW treadmill where a statistically stronger weapon is available to you every 4 months or so or something.
My statement is not directed at the op, but in general.
The new aged gamers have no clue what grinding is, seriously. MMORPG's play like console rpgs now, fast paced and nothing at the end, with very little replay value.
Many gamers complain about "grinding", what is grinding to you? Taking weeks or months to get to max level or grinding for weeks or months for armor, weapons, and loot at end game? Its the same damn thing. You are still investing your time and doing repetative tasks either way.
Personaly i would rather enjoy my ride to my destination than get there in a heartbeat and doing the same boring daillies and warzones over and over as content. Which many get bored from and quit. To me those types of games are just tedious and i dont normaly bother with them. Games that dont have some sort of open end game just dont cut it, you are going to be grinding no matter what.
I don't consider dungeon runs grinding, because you are in constant motion traversing through paths and exploring the content, as is intended. I consider grinding to be in one particular spot killing the same mobs over and over, for experience or a loot drop.
Just expnad your "one spot" to a dungeon and its the same thing.
You explore it on the first run. On 56th its a snoozefest.
GW2 is one of the most open ended games. Go where you want do what you want at endgame (within boundaries of the game). Doesnt get any better than that.
If you can provide an example of fully open ended game without any limitations please do so.
Vanguard. There are more but i guess one name is enough.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Lol. A game where you get to only raid same crap at endgame and thats it? Vanguard is anti open ended endgame
I played Vanguard FYI. It was bad when it launched and got even worse when they added 5 levels.
I dont think you know what "open ended" means
I had a feeling you would reply with 'lol but it is a raid crap'.
Thanks for proving your bias and that you have no idea about open ended gameplay of Vanguard. And its even more ironic coming from someone who says GW2 is open ended even though majority of focus is on dungeons grind at lvl 80.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yes, your feeling was right. When a game has only raiding as endgame its crap. Its exactly what poster i quoted is complaining about, exactly anti open ended.
Theres no opend ended endgame in Vanguard, thanks for providing examples.
Focus in FW2 is definatwly not dungeons, especially dungeons grind, i see that you havent even played it., but somehow you want to comment on it.
seen it pretty split my guild does lot of WvW.. lot of open world stuff like the dragons and working on map completion, some enjoy dungeons, some do sPVP, others like farming mats to craft , others like just revisting zones and wandering around doing events and getting karma
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I laugh when people want to force their own definitions of "grinding" on others. For some grinding might be 8 hours every day in Lineage 2 for a recipe, but for others grinding might be farming the same events for gold, xp or armor. GW2 is grindy regardless of the extent of the grind. Farming gets BORING. Boring = grind.
So OP, leave your own definition of grinding with yourself. GW2 can indeed by grindy as hell.