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Originally posted by firelilyx The game looked like crikey from the beginning but what I really don't get about the review is this: "I really like the idea of an eventual permadeath; a final, oops-you-blew-it-one-too-many-times point of no return" Why? Do you like frustration, punishment and repetition so much? Sometimes I hear that people like permadeath mechanics because it makes it more "real", but permadeath doesn't bring the game closer to any real life stakes because everything else about it is game-like so it's still unrealistic. It's just annoyance for the sake of annoyance.
Permadeath makes you have to play a real game, not Call of Duty.
Not punishing people for stupidity keeps people from hating each other more than they already do by either weeding out idiots or by making people actually pay attention. The choice is theirs.
Originally posted by Xepo Originally posted by Dorrian After reading this It seems like 1. You didnt give the game a fair shot from the start. 2. You didnt play any class long enough to get a more accurate idea of how they play. The game has a learning curve and its not forgiving. Your not being spoon fed they way they do now in almost every other mmo. This game is a great change of pace from the same ol WoW clones.
I played the beta also and left after a short time never to return. How long do you have to roll around in shit before you know you don't like it? This game just under-performs on so many levels. If it was 1985 this game would have felt like the next best thing, BUT it is not and this game failed.
I really really really wish there was a like button. You sir have made my day, and I have a sinus infection right now. So kudos to you!
Also to the one person that said she was wrong for calling the losing stats thing stupid...work on your reading skills. She said she didn't understand why her fighter had to get stupid to get better. Not that it was stupid. Granted there is a purpose to losing the stat, but still...she didn't say it was actually stupid. She just didn't like it.
I like the original Wizardry better to be honest. Furthermore, I feel that the UI and controls in the original game were better than the UI and controls in this game. A game should be difficult, because it is difficult. A game shouldn't be difficult, because of poor design (e.g. camera controls). Just how I feel.
I'm glad some people enjoyed it. I hope it does well cause I liked the series, mostly the more classic style. Honestly, I don't bother with reviews most times anyways. You gotta try it out for yourself. If you like it, you like it. If you don't like it, you don't. Just not for me unfortunately.
Permadeath doesn't weed out idiots. I know. I play a lot of tabletop rpgs. Stupid people just re-roll and continue with the stupidity. Stupidity is rather persistent. Just saying.
Originally posted by kaiserxxx Wait what? so now reviewers can review a full MMORPG only throught the first 20-30 minutes of gameplay? Thats quite the achievement if you ask me. Many gameplay facets weren't mentionned ( mult classing, bounty system). Wasn't a game reviews supposed to show everything about a game and criticise it and point out pro/con? Comon for the love of god this isn't an FPS that you can review after 15 minutes of gameplay.
Got some deillusional posts here. Listen guys if the game is terrible for the first 2 hours then it is terrible in general because that's all 95% of players are going to give the game. If it doesn't grab you in that time span then chances are it's not going to make some huge comeback later. And lets face it, indepth Wizardry online is not good enough to overcome it's many many flaws. I'd say this game is easily as bad as FFXIV though at least SoE didn't spend a fortune to make this trainwreck.
Originally posted by shawn19606 I havn't really figured out the permadeath penalty either. When you die you have to run from your body to a statue like thing and then rez. You can autoport there every so often for a penalty. I think sometimes you just have a chance of "not rezzing". And that's it for that toon. So technically you could die once and not be able to rez. Another reason why this game is probably not worth me putting any more time into. Stupid feature. I guess it's rare but can happen.
If you autoport, that is a good start to lower your chances to revive, besides the statue is NEVER far away , unless you actually forgot to click the statues on your way inside a dungeon.
Permadeath can ONLY happen if you are CARELESS and doesn't pay attention, atleast that is for the early 15 levels or so..It's not stupid, It makes you really care for your characther, besides the legacy lives on true the soul system, soul levels earnt by your characthers are shared by all characthers and stays even efter one of you has passed away..
Originally posted by thark Originally posted by shawn19606 I havn't really figured out the permadeath penalty either. When you die you have to run from your body to a statue like thing and then rez. You can autoport there every so often for a penalty. I think sometimes you just have a chance of "not rezzing". And that's it for that toon. So technically you could die once and not be able to rez. Another reason why this game is probably not worth me putting any more time into. Stupid feature. I guess it's rare but can happen.
I never got the fascination with that. Permadeath is a consequence any hardcore gamer or guild can choose to apply to themselves. Die, or die 5 times or whatever limit you set, delete your character. Permadeath in this format says "I can only enjoy the game if I know other people are getting hit with the penalty I want to get hit with myself!" It brings to mind the stereotype of the "Hardcore Gamer" who sits up at night, chewing his toenails in bowel-quivering Gamer Rage knowing that somewhere, somebody is playing the game with a different level of difficulty or without his "Dedication." Kind of like the DM who scolded me back in college because he felt I wasn't taking my gaming seriously enough.
Still, it's a non-issue, or will be soon, because the reviews suggest SOE will be doing a facepalm of a magnitude equal to the dollars they poured into this thing. It's a real shame, because the Wizardry games were some of my favorites in years past.
I was half enjoying and half hating my experience in beta.
The game felt ancient, like PS2 old, in every aspect. The combat was especially bad and I was always fighting with the game to do what I expected it to do.
I liked the atmosphere, how it reminded me of games of old, and the soul/permadeath mechanic.
I was planning on playing it for a while, but then launch day, my god.
By the time I was able to login, the names I used in both betas were taken, and that was enough to drive me away. I wasn't going to deal with a love/hate experience knowing I couldn't be who I am across all the games I play.
Just; a good concept, but releasing it today instead of 10 years ago is its downfall.
I don't see an issue with the color. Turn your gamma down; it is supposed to be dark. The HDR is bad though, with glows coming off of everything.
I tend to agree with the leveling and loss of ability scores, though hardcore fans would disagree because they are fans.
I don't see an issue with the camera. A little awkward at first maybe, but you don't have to have your view centered behind your character to play. Stop trying to control it so much; it is relatively pointless. Maybe more of an issue for mages than close quarters fighters though.
Originally posted by Theocritus This game was so bad it was probably my last beta......There wasn't a single good thing about it and I'm a big fan of the wizardry series.
I too have been in many betas and this is the only one where I exited and deleted the game from my hard drive within 30 mins - It was that bad.
Really unfortunate - The Wizardry PC games are some of my fondest memories in PC Gaming. When are distributers going to learn? You blow the rollout, you blow your chance at any decent gaming community. There aren't really 2nd chances in the MMO space.
Oh and "permadeath?" - I died a number of tims in the beta due to massive stability issues and rubber-banding...No thanks...I don't really see that viable in an online game and I agree with many posters...- Where is the fun? I put this right up there with corpse runs. I have memories of those in EQ and they aren't fond memories - more annoying than anythhing else.
The MMO space has changed since it began. The "meat" of the player base is casual. They aren't going to go in for corpse runs, long-term death penalties, and permadeath and games need a player base to survive.
SeaspiteLooking for a MMO
The only thing I can suggest here is that you play Diablo 3 on regular, then play it on Hardcore, which has a permanent death with absolutely no chance of revival, even if the death is from something like a server crash.
If you don't "get it" then, you never will.
One of the serious problems with MMORPGs today is the lack of penalities for dying. No one cares if they die, and many gripe because they have to run for 15 seconds to get back to the fight. You should care; you should be afraid of dying, and do everything you can to avoid it. If you aren't and you don't, you are not playing a roleplaying game at all, you are just moving a glorified checker-piece marker on a pretty playing board.
Repetition - seriously? What isn't repititive and DULL about running through a game with no challenges, no threats? People seem to want to watch the game play out rather than have a personal, emotional investment in it. How is that fun? I'd rather wtch a good TV show where good writing has a chance to express itself. I'd much rather read a good book - even a fair one is better than the drivel MMOGs have become.
Raids? Raids are made up of 30% people who care, and 70% people that are more a drain on your team than a help. If you actually have a team that is all gung-ho, you are called "hardcore" and sneered at, as though there was something wrong with you. "I'd rather have fun playing the game than have to work so hard". The most fun, the deepest experience, comes from hard work and doing the difficult, not from half-sleeping through pablum-level content. (In case you don't know, pablum is an almost flavorless mush of a cereal fed to babies.)
Okay okay all that ranting aside, I get that some people - many people - just want to turn their brains off and get entertained in their off time, I really do. I do that myself often enough. And, I don't really fault the World of Warcraft devs for making it that kind of game for the most part - it's still a pretty good game, even by my standards. What I don't get though is people telling others they are somehow off-base because they want more excitement and challenge in their gaming. And, I think refusing to understand somethng like permadeath, and saying so in an internet post, is part of that "Well, there's something wrong with you if you like it because all it is is repetitive frustration and disappointment." No, it isn't, but you have to be personally invested in your characters to understand it, and if you aren't, you never will. Go play checkers with your kid brother, or watch an inane sit-com on TV with a cold beer in one hand and a wacky-tobacky smoke in the other.
At least TRY to understand, and if you fail to, accept that some people like a different flavor of game than you, and that's no reflection on you OR them. Beer/TV tiime is good; that kind of gaming is fine. I just want something more, something different, and WoW, EQII, LotRO, AoC, etc etc don't bring it.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Originally posted by Smokeysong Originally posted by firelilyx The game looked like crikey from the beginning but what I really don't get about the review is this: "I really like the idea of an eventual permadeath; a final, oops-you-blew-it-one-too-many-times point of no return" Why? Do you like frustration, punishment and repetition so much? Sometimes I hear that people like permadeath mechanics because it makes it more "real", but permadeath doesn't bring the game closer to any real life stakes because everything else about it is game-like so it's still unrealistic. It's just annoyance for the sake of annoyance.
It's not a case of "If you don't like it, it's because you WON'T try to understand it!"
I have no interest in kissing a dirty, sweaty fat man.
That is not because I "won't TRY to understand" what someone else may consider a benefit of kissing said dirty, sweaty fat man. Maybe he's nice, eloquent, considerate, well spoken, and will cure cancer with a better light bulb. I still have no interest in kissing him. Because I'm more interested in smart, cute, well groomed ladies than sweaty, dirty fat men.
It's because I know, without trying it, that I have no interest in kissing a sweaty, dirty, fat man. There's nothing for me to "TRY to understand, because no matter how drunk I get, a dirty, sweaty fat man is still a dirty, sweaty fat man, and I just ain't going there.
Originally posted by mpzancanaro For the dude that think permadeath is only frustration: Yes, it can be frustration, but it is also a challenge. To get at a high level in these conditions, it really gives a sense of awesomeness. And, rewards are for hard work only, in most games it's given to players at the end of any kill-rabbits quest.
Well said dude. Its a different game with different approach....When ppl are used for example with agame lets say wow they r used to die hundernds of times many of them foolishly.Wizardry does punish repeatidily dying. When ppl realise that and try to play seriously the game im sure they ll understand what sort of accomplishment is to actually make a high lvl character and be there to say not ding but ....im alive !
Originally posted by tazarconan Originally posted by mpzancanaro For the dude that think permadeath is only frustration: Yes, it can be frustration, but it is also a challenge. To get at a high level in these conditions, it really gives a sense of awesomeness. And, rewards are for hard work only, in most games it's given to players at the end of any kill-rabbits quest.
About what I remember people saying in defense of EQ's half-hour corpse runs.
But me? I just don't like failure. I find that failure itself is irritating enough as a punishment when I'm playing a game. Screwing up just plain sucks, I don't need to chew tinfoil or have some artificial penalty applied whenever I do something dumb to remind me that failure just sucks. Sucks dirty, angry monkey toes. But then again, I don't play games for accomplishment-based gratification. Gaming's not where I invest that type of thinking, it's purely entertainment for me. I get my ego-chow with my writing and artwork. (And that's not a dig or "My Ego Chow Is More Superiorly Gooder Than Yours, by the way, because everybody has their own thing and that's cool.)
Perhaps a viable option would be a "hardcore mode" or perma-death servers so people can enjoy the game world and system as they see fit.
I had to make an account just to post this in hopes that someone out there looking for a good f2p game and stumbles upon this. This is an absolutely amazing game that you will never find anything like. It is a perfect mix of Dark Age of Camelot, Resident Evil, and Dark Souls / Demon Souls (2 best games of all time). It has the group play and lore feeling of DAOC. The adventuring, zones, and music are eerie and very closely related to Resident Evil, and the icing on the cake, the combat system is the closest thing you will find to the best combat system of all time Demon Souls and Dark Souls and its a freaking MMO.... By the way, if you have read people saying the camera is clunky and the combat is clunky, that is because they are bad... The system is so nice allowing me so much more control and freedom than ANY other mmo. If they had no end game content, pvp, bosses, quests, or anything the game would still be so captivating due to its extremely rewarding progression. When every second is literally a struggle of life and death, you truely get a sense of accomplishment that games do not provide any more. Please give Wizardry a try and really learn the game. Once you are good with the controls and can chain your combos, master the side and backstep, know when to sheathe your weapons, learn when to shield, and learn when you need to RUN!!!, only then will begin to realize how awesome this game is.
To anyone who doesn't like a challenege: You may not like this game. Everyone else enjoy!
This is a terrible review. I played the game and enjoyed it thouroughly. I didnt play it at launch though so that might have been the problem.
The game is hard, ive died 4 times in my first 8 hours and i never die in mmorpgs. Which is nice. Death penalty isnt really a big deal yet but I can forsee it becoming a challenge. Its a refreshing new experience to the boring wow style play yourself mmorpg.