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Nostalgia and how you will neve be as happy as you were again

TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

So, I was browsing a world of warcraft forum and I came cross this thread: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/235962-i-remember-when/

World of warcraft currently has the strongest and most populated PvP community out of any mmorpg (Eve Online might be an exception).  Despite WoW's pvp community, they felt genuine sorrow about the game's current state: Not so much that the game is bad (PvP communitys in EVERY game always bitch and moan) but more that the past is...the past, and will no longer be.

Its a prime example of a niche mmorpg community feeling nostalgia.   The Feels are intense.   

Nadagastt cuts in on page 7:

'I'm kinda jealous man.  I got all this nostalgia for Everquest, which was much more punishing/real/alive than vanilla WoW, but not nearly as polished, and the graphics were obviously much worse.  But man I played it again recently, and the nostalgia is crazy.  I kinda wish I had that with WoW.'

Nadagastt is considered one of the best Warlocks in NA, and probaly the world.Yet his excitement, his passion for mmorpg gaming stemmed from WoW.  What does this mean?  It means that gamers can move on to more polished games.  But he first game they fell in love with will always hold their standard of fun experience.

In conclusion: Don't hate new games for not bringing back the 'fun factor' for you.  identify what you want in a game, identify what type of gamer you are, and then move to the mmorpg that makes the most sense.  No game will ever be as good as your nostalgia moments - but thats human nature!

Comments

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    yea nostalgia is a funny thing.. i have tried to "re-live" some of my favorite games especially old jrpgs.. but they are just so bland for me now. Even trying to play old MMOs just feel clunky outdated and just not a lot of fun. But back in the day it was a differn't story:P

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TraugarTraugar Robbinsville, NCPosts: 183Member Uncommon
    What if your first mmo isn't the one you miss so much?  Does that mean my so called rose tinted glasses are busted?  I played my first one for years, and while I had fun playing it I don't miss it.  However, I do miss the game I left it for.  
  • BadOrbBadOrb ManchesterPosts: 791Member Uncommon

    PSO was my first MMORPG love and PSU is a very close second. Playing SWTOR is no were near as fun as either of those two games and might never be ( it's still a great game though ). I intend on re living my fun and enjoyment on PSO2 when it finally releases and yes I will be dancing and talking trash in the lobby's for quite some time :) . I can't wait bring on the western release!

    Cheers,

    BadOrb.

    PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
    "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
    The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  • thengeancethengeance Greensboro, NCPosts: 6Member
    I don't miss WoW as much as I miss the raiding group that we had going for awhile. Everyone has moved on to different RL schedules and responsibilities. Every time I try to get back into an MMO, I get hung up on not having that social circle to keep me engaged and motivated. 
  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    My first MMOs were Tibia and Runescape. They are not my favorite by a long shot. My favorite is probably ATITD the MMO I played most recently.

    I wish I had plyed SWG-preCU when it was around and sometimes I think about playing EvE. The pull of those games, that I never even played, beats out my first two MMOs.

    I do prefer Tibia and possibly even Runescape over my time in WoW though. WoW crafting is shit. I regret ever playing runes of magic and various asian imports.

    Please don't generalize like this. Many people feel nostalgia for early games but not all of them.

    I do feel nostalgia in other areas of my life sometimes but thats because in those areas my life was just better. Actually better. Even if my first experience seemed a little more real I still prefer experiences that were better rather than older.

    I used to read these books from a giant series, and I read a certain trilogy first, and it was the first time I had read books like that and it was amazing. But many years later I learned that there were other books set in the same world and I read these 3 of them, and I was like, these are great but the first ones are better. And then I read another trilogy, serious these people are obsessed with trilogies, every major character must have 3 and exactly 3 books, and this trilogy was just so much more amazing than the second one, which you would expect since seconds don't trigger nostalgia like firsts, but it also totally blew away the first trilogy that I had read even though that first trilogy counted for all the classic nostalgia triggers:

    first in that series i had read

    first in the genre that i had read

    i was like 10 for this first one whereas the third series was when i was 14 or something

    i had read yet another trilogy in the interim that was the same style

    the first trilogy totally blew my mind in ways that later first time in a genre books i read didn't

     

    I think that nostalgia is only powerful if the relevant activites are of such similar quality that you can't also make a claim as to which is objectively more awesome.

     

    I have many many times been much happier than I previously was.

     

    Stop the lies!

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,275Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    So, I was browsing a world of warcraft forum and I came cross this thread: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/235962-i-remember-when/

    World of warcraft currently has the strongest and most populated PvP community out of any mmorpg (Eve Online might be an exception).  Despite WoW's pvp community, they felt genuine sorrow about the game's current state: Not so much that the game is bad (PvP communitys in EVERY game always bitch and moan) but more that the past is...the past, and will no longer be.

    Its a prime example of a niche mmorpg community feeling nostalgia.   The Feels are intense.   

    Nadagastt cuts in on page 7:

    'I'm kinda jealous man.  I got all this nostalgia for Everquest, which was much more punishing/real/alive than vanilla WoW, but not nearly as polished, and the graphics were obviously much worse.  But man I played it again recently, and the nostalgia is crazy.  I kinda wish I had that with WoW.'

    Nadagastt is considered one of the best Warlocks in NA, and probaly the world.Yet his excitement, his passion for mmorpg gaming stemmed from WoW.  What does this mean?  It means that gamers can move on to more polished games.  But he first game they fell in love with will always hold their standard of fun experience.

    In conclusion: Don't hate new games for not bringing back the 'fun factor' for you.  identify what you want in a game, identify what type of gamer you are, and then move to the mmorpg that makes the most sense.  No game will ever be as good as your nostalgia moments - but thats human nature!

    In the west. There are mmorpg's twice the size of WoW outside of.

     

    Cataclysm change WoW pvp forever. In one swoop they eliminated the meaning behind Arena by eliminating ranking requirments for the gear. You see, the ranks ment something because of the reward. The reward was the prize for achievment. At that point it became really hard to justify putting the time.

     

    Arena was no walk in the park. Long time friendships were made and broken daily.  2 or 3 people would play a 100 matches a day togther, to achieve the level of aptitude needed to reach a high enough rank, for their weapons or shoulders,  That changed overnight. All you needed to do was win 5 matches a week in Cata, and you would recieve all the rewards. 

     

    That's not nostalgia. That's a fundamental change in game design.

     

    For the record. After a 2 year search. I have that first time feeling again. You might be playing the wrong game image

     

     

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I don't hate new MMOs for not being my old MMO, I dislike them for being shallow, having uninspired systems, and being railed/small.

     

    Ultima Onlne - Released 1997 - It is my #1 for depth of systems, do not like its 'new' skill systems, but loved the classic game itself, the crafting, vendors, housing, large world....2D does not put me off.

     

    Everquest - First 3D mmo for me, and really liked it, it is my favorite 'themepark', disliked the instance direction after LDoN, but that was many years down the line.

     

    DAoC - Loved the RvR, despite having a crap system to play on at the time (1 graphic card lower than 'supported').

     

    Vanguard - Really liked this MMO, had great PvE, harvesting/crafting, fun classes for me, decent PvP, and diplomacy was fun to play here and there as a side game.  For this one, I had a brand new, top of the line system, so I didn't have a lot of the problems that most people seemed to have, so I probably wasn't as jaded towards it as many people were.  Left when the PvP server became a ghost town, when they announced no more PvP support, only PvE...Felt like a feature was taken away, and that SoE wasn't really commited to the game.  This launched 10 years after UO, and I played the hell out of this game, did I love it as much as UO, no, but I did not hate it for not being UO.

     

    SWG - Liked it, but got into it late, due to not being big on space themes, played it a lot, when they did the CU/NGE, they screwed up a lot of the raw materials that I worked a lot of time to catch up on, and my wife played a medic, and was pissed about them taking med crafting away from her guy....So liked it, but it did need more content, and balancing (skill set wise, and buffs were out of control), but not a new system. 

     

    TSW - I am not a big quest person, and I would rather grind, than quest to be honest.  I also generally hate personal story stuff, cut scenes and voice over stuff.....BUT I actually liked TSW a lot, despite it not meeting a lot of my crafting/harvesting depth.  I thought the quest/story content was very different and well done.  It just ran into the problem that themeparks run into that are set up the way this game is, you run out of content kind of quickly.  Thinking of going back, since I think they have some new content, since I left.

     

     

    So , I have enjoyed MMOs, you could say that maybe I am not the target for the nostalgia comment, but often when people read my stuff they try to say it.  I just think MMOs have gotten lazy, crafting is usually an after thought and poorly done and having no depth.  Starting areas for races is usually not done anymore, things seem to be streamlined more for cost/profit, like in a formulation.  Why make these starter areas if they will only add 'x' profit, but we can cut that time and money, and still do ok.  I am not playing a MMO currently, and I did not enjoy GW2, just felt odd, do not know if the, no real class roles did not appeal to me or what. 

     

    I never played a MMO for less than a year, prior to Rift, I left Rift with 3 months still paid for (bought a 6 month sub, they had a good discount, and I had never played a MMO for a short time before).  As I said GW2, I think I played for a couple hours, TOR about a month.  Most of the MMOs I left, I wouldn't even play for free, if they became free with no cash shop bleeding.  I do not buy that I am over nostalgic, as I  loved UO, and I loved Vanguard 10 years later...I am just not suited to play a MMO for a few weeks or a month, or 5 MMOs at once...I am generally not a game hopper, and if something looks to be like that, I would just rather not play it, as I view it a waste of my time.  This is why I am hoping that some of the new focus on more sandbox will bring something out worth staying in for a while.

     

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Meh I disagree. UO was great, went to crap, then I got just as excited about DCUO then it went to crap. It happened to me 3x in a row (SWG too) before everything became bland and boring. While nostalgia may be a reason some aren't finding games they enjoy, I feel the bigger issue is lack of innovation, or even just games that are different. And just because a game is different from WoW, does not make it a good alternative. I don't even need something new personally, in fact I wan't something with older elements to it. Kind of like how mustangs stopped looking like ford escorts and started to incorporate the new with the old. 
  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    I was really drunk when I wrote that last night and it is filled with errors and mistakes.  I would like to just delete it but it seems like it has spawned some discussion.

    kids: don't drink and type.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    I was really drunk when I wrote that last night and it is filled with errors and mistakes.  I would like to just delete it but it seems like it has spawned some discussion.

    kids: don't drink and type.

    We should do coke instead eh?

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cuathon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    I was really drunk when I wrote that last night and it is filled with errors and mistakes.  I would like to just delete it but it seems like it has spawned some discussion.

    kids: don't drink and type.

    We should do coke instead eh?

    Only if you're coke cat.

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,207Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thengeance
    I don't miss WoW as much as I miss the raiding group that we had going for awhile. Everyone has moved on to different RL schedules and responsibilities. Every time I try to get back into an MMO, I get hung up on not having that social circle to keep me engaged and motivated. 

    Just the same here.

    My kind of "nostalgia" is rather related to the people i played with than just to the game itself. Without them, it wouldn't have been the same...most likely i never played 5 yrs without them.

    This time is all long gone and everyone moved on in their lifes. I tried to get back into WoW once and it only made me miss those old guys and girls and made me feel sort of being "lonely" in the game. Like all on your own visiting an old location where once you had fun with close friends.

    image
  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    Whilst the nostalgia argument is true for some people to a certain extent, it is not universally true for everyone.

    My first MMO was The Saga of Ryzom, which I loved, I then moved to EQ2 which I loved even more and then FFXI which to date is my favourite MMO.

    That move from EQ2 to FFXI meant I was moving to a game with slower combat, clunkier systems and long travel times, yet I actually liked it more. For some bizarre reason whenever I express this on these forums everyone says I'm being nostalgic yet I played that game AFTER a more modern release!

    I just want to make it clear that the nostalgia argument is too often used as a means to try and shut up players who genuinely prefer the older systems. Action combat, dungeon finders, and never needing to speak to another player might be fine for some people but there are a lot of us that preffered the old MMOs, and that's not just our memory playing tricks on us.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member
    Originally posted by Alberel

    Whilst the nostalgia argument is true for some people to a certain extent, it is not universally true for everyone.

    My first MMO was The Saga of Ryzom, which I loved, I then moved to EQ2 which I loved even more and then FFXI which to date is my favourite MMO.

    That move from EQ2 to FFXI meant I was moving to a game with slower combat, clunkier systems and long travel times, yet I actually liked it more. For some bizarre reason whenever I express this on these forums everyone says I'm being nostalgic yet I played that game AFTER a more modern release!

    I just want to make it clear that the nostalgia argument is too often used as a means to try and shut up players who genuinely prefer the older systems. Action combat, dungeon finders, and never needing to speak to another player might be fine for some people but there are a lot of us that preffered the old MMOs, and that's not just our memory playing tricks on us.

    I couldn't possibly agree with anything in the world more than I agree with this.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Traugar
    What if your first mmo isn't the one you miss so much?  Does that mean my so called rose tinted glasses are busted?  I played my first one for years, and while I had fun playing it I don't miss it.  However, I do miss the game I left it for.  

    I fall into that category as well.  Eve Online is my favorite mmorpg to date but it was the third or fourth one I played.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Cuathon

    We should do coke instead eh?

    If you're buyin' then I'm down.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    Why (on average) you enjoy the next MMO less than the previous.

    Law of diminishing marginal utility.

    image

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    When I play a game I grew up on it feels like old times, and I still love those games and see great quality in them.  Sadly with MMOs this is almost impossible.  Even if your favorite MMO is still around, updates have probably changed it or it has been taken down entirely...  But the REAL problem is that your friends you knew on that MMO are gone and you can't get them all to come back and play with you... Unless you are me and keep nude, drugged photos of everyone you know for future blackmailing.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Why (on average) you enjoy the next MMO less than the previous.

    Law of diminishing marginal utility.

    That is in no way the intended meaning of marginal utility. Marginal utility relates to concurrently existing/consumed goods.

    For every MMO in the world that simultaneously exists, accounting for certain player preferences, every MMO added is of less value.

    If I am playing ATITD and WURM and SWG, EVE is less valuable to me than it would be if any one of those other MMOs wasn't there.

     

    And even that example is a huge stretch.

    The classic example of marginal utility is money. Its why we implement progressive taxes. A single dollar has less value to a rich person than a poor person. Taxing a rich person 40% is less significant than taxing a poor person the same amount.

    That's because certain goods, necessities, will always be there to suck out money. If you need to pay 1000$ for them, and you have 1500 and you lose 40% you are down to 900, which isnt enough, but if you have 10000$ and you lose 40% then you have 6000 which leaves 5000 more for whatever you want.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    O.P. the 'first kiss' analogy is one of the biggest misconceptions in MMO gaming. Blaming MMO decline on consumers does not help the situation. Games have been so dumbed down, it would be more fun to train a monkey to play them than to play them, onesself.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • nbtscannbtscan Phoenix, AZPosts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by thengeance
    I don't miss WoW as much as I miss the raiding group that we had going for awhile. Everyone has moved on to different RL schedules and responsibilities. Every time I try to get back into an MMO, I get hung up on not having that social circle to keep me engaged and motivated. 

    Just the same here.

    My kind of "nostalgia" is rather related to the people i played with than just to the game itself. Without them, it wouldn't have been the same...most likely i never played 5 yrs without them.

    This time is all long gone and everyone moved on in their lifes. I tried to get back into WoW once and it only made me miss those old guys and girls and made me feel sort of being "lonely" in the game. Like all on your own visiting an old location where once you had fun with close friends.

    I think this hits the nail on the head.  It's the people you play with moreso than anything, I feel anyway.  I played FFXI for a while, came back not long ago and could only play for a couple of months before stopping again, because nobody I knew was still playing.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    In conclusion: Don't hate new games for not bringing back the 'fun factor' for you.  identify what you want in a game, identify what type of gamer you are, and then move to the mmorpg that makes the most sense.  No game will ever be as good as your nostalgia moments - but thats human nature!

    I suppose but it really does depend on what they are nostalgic for.

    If it's the people they knew then sure, that's something they might not get back. If it's for game play elements and no current game has the elements of their past game then they really just might not be finding the "fun factor" in new games and it's not "rose colored glasses" so much as not finding a game with the elements that first caught them.

    I've yet to find a siege game that was as good as Lineage 2. Warhammer just had keep flipping and you lost he pride in ownership. Aion is a bit better than that as you don't flip them quite as often but again, it seems that there isn't really much "pride in ownership".

    I liked it that one group of players held a castle for 2 weeks and they got benefits from that. I liked that you could go and help a group and that one siege had a lot riding on it.

    I just hate the economy and all the "little bits" they added here and there that feel pasted on.

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheHavok

    So, I was browsing a world of warcraft forum and I came cross this thread: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/235962-i-remember-when/

    World of warcraft currently has the strongest and most populated PvP community out of any mmorpg (Eve Online might be an exception).  Despite WoW's pvp community, they felt genuine sorrow about the game's current state: Not so much that the game is bad (PvP communitys in EVERY game always bitch and moan) but more that the past is...the past, and will no longer be.

    Its a prime example of a niche mmorpg community feeling nostalgia.   The Feels are intense.   

    Nadagastt cuts in on page 7:

    'I'm kinda jealous man.  I got all this nostalgia for Everquest, which was much more punishing/real/alive than vanilla WoW, but not nearly as polished, and the graphics were obviously much worse.  But man I played it again recently, and the nostalgia is crazy.  I kinda wish I had that with WoW.'

    Nadagastt is considered one of the best Warlocks in NA, and probaly the world.Yet his excitement, his passion for mmorpg gaming stemmed from WoW.  What does this mean?  It means that gamers can move on to more polished games.  But he first game they fell in love with will always hold their standard of fun experience.

    In conclusion: Don't hate new games for not bringing back the 'fun factor' for you.  identify what you want in a game, identify what type of gamer you are, and then move to the mmorpg that makes the most sense.  No game will ever be as good as your nostalgia moments - but thats human nature!

    I agree with your conclusion as its common sense (which tends not to be so common around here ;-)

    The problem is the type of gamer I am and what I want in a game - they are no longer making in current MMORPGs.  There are no more worlds.  Just 'lobby-based' worlds with tacked on options to try and 'fufill' the experience.  Its not working for me.  Millions play GW2 but it lacks what Im looking for.  That's not nostalgia.   Nostalgia is I love Chrono Trigger and it was one of the most fun RPGs I played back in 1995.   I do still play it today but being older I see how 'simple' the game is, but oddly enough that simplicity hasn't ruined the fun for me.

    Curious to see how MMORPGs released this year turn out, but not holding my breath... 

    image
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