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Drow exclusivity and uncertainty of the control wizard at launch

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  • tokinitokini third hut on the leftPosts: 341Member Common
    Originally posted by Dragonfish

     

    2. They made this decision internally some time ago, and decided not to make it public because they KNEW it would be an unpopular decision. This is their words, not mine.

     

     

    i dont care that they withold certain things or make others 'founder' exclusive, but this right here is a shady and incredibly stupid way to do business, if true.  

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Dragonfish

    Just to clarify, there is a new sticky on the official forums. They spelled it out in plain english finally so people stop arguing.

     

    1. The Drow race will NOT be available to anyone but the $200 Hero package owners for  AT LEAST 60 days. This does not mean the backstory, but the ENTIRE RACE. Not even the $60 Guardian package owners can play Drow.

    2. They made this decision internally some time ago, and decided not to make it public because they KNEW it would be an unpopular decision. This is their words, not mine.

     

    Yes, this is a free to play game but as other posters already mentioned, Cryptic has stated numerous times in the past that the Drow race would be available free at launch to all players. Now they are at it again with typical cryptic crap (STO Klingon anyone?) and I know it's just going to get worse. I was actually going to give them $60 just to support the game but after this I'll have a really hard time coughing up the cash.

    got a link?

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Dragonfish

    Just to clarify, there is a new sticky on the official forums. They spelled it out in plain english finally so people stop arguing.

     

    1. The Drow race will NOT be available to anyone but the $200 Hero package owners for  AT LEAST 60 days. This does not mean the backstory, but the ENTIRE RACE. Not even the $60 Guardian package owners can play Drow.

    2. They made this decision internally some time ago, and decided not to make it public because they KNEW it would be an unpopular decision. This is their words, not mine.

     

    Yes, this is a free to play game but as other posters already mentioned, Cryptic has stated numerous times in the past that the Drow race would be available free at launch to all players. Now they are at it again with typical cryptic crap (STO Klingon anyone?) and I know it's just going to get worse. I was actually going to give them $60 just to support the game but after this I'll have a really hard time coughing up the cash.

    err sto klingons where level locked not cash shop locked, you could make one at level 20, this being because klingons started at level 20

     

    and once agian i would like some proof as to your statement about drow, as i have friends it would be iportant to to know but i wont rely such a message without proof

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    I don't even know why people even wants to play drow...

     

    It will be pretty annoying to see half the population running around with dual scimitars trying to be Dizzt to be honest, lol

     

    I would never *shudder* try to be drizzt, but damn.. who wouldn't like to be a drow?

     

    I guess I'm just a D&D nerd.

     

    As to the point, I don't plan on playing this (strike that) game.

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  • aerinndisaerinndis x, SCPosts: 67Member

    If they seriously launch without a wizard class, I will lose all enthusiasm about this game. I've no desire to play a melee or cleric class.

    No regular Drow at launch (as they previously stated would be and have now backed out on) is a poor decision. I personally don't care about playing Drow, but know people who will only play Drow.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    Can someone please think of the halflings!

      Halflings are crunchy and taste good  with ketchup.

  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon

    I think the bigger issue is how the information got out.  When the packs first went on sale people were told the vanilla drow would be available to everyone at launch.  On 2/20 one of the mods went in and edited the faq.  (Drow weren't the only change, more in a minute).

    On 2/25 someone noticed the ninja edit to the faq and started a thread.  Eventually it would be confirmed that a change in policy on the vanialla drow had been made.  When asked why they quietly changed the faq and didn't make an announcement, it was insisted that a change to the faq constituted an official announcement, BUT they deliberately didn't draw attention to the change because they anticipated a negative reaction.

    On the Drow-

    Menzo Renegade will be available at launch, Vanilla Drow AT LEAST 60 days latter.  This has been confirmed now several times, by different people.

    Other Changes-

    Halfling dissapeared from the official launch race list, and was replaced with Half-orc.  The mods do appear to be a bit confused about this change, so it may very well simply be a mistake.

    The control wizard is no longer considered "officially announced," despite an official class video and the announcement that they will be in the next beta weekend.  When asked what was going one we got a lot of cagey lawyer talk, then a mod finally confessed that the CW has been rejected by the Alpha testers several times now.

     

    While the change for vanilla Drow is shady, the bigger issue is the sneaky way they "announced" the change.  Quietly editing a faq that everyone has already read, is cowardly and dirty.  I couldn't care less about the vanilla Drow, but I do care very much about a company that wants my money, deliberately misleading its customers.

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member
    Originally posted by vmoped

    FAQ: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?18401-Neverwinter-Extended-FAQ&p=297621&viewfull=1#post297621

    Discussion thread on official forum: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?61791-Drow-elf-not-available-for-at-least-60-days-after-release-wizard-future-unsure

    There has been a bit of an uproar over the updated FAQ to NWO in which the drow will be exclusive to Hero of the North Founder pack for at least 60 days post launch.  The control wizard is also not listed as one of the launch classes either, leading to forum speculation that it may not initially make launch now.

    The good news is the half-orc is confirmed as a playable race for launch.

    Cheers!

    There is not an "uproar", but it keeps being brought up because a few people keep starting threads complaining about it. New races get added in expansions all the time and people always have to start over when trying the new race, big deal. 

    If it is really bothering the ones who don't get the unlock, then support Cryptic with the Founder packs. Because the only income Cryptic will be making is from the cash shop after launch since the game will be free to download and free to play. Cryptic employees have to earn a living just like anyone else.

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member
    Originally posted by augustgrace

    I think the bigger issue is how the information got out.  When the packs first went on sale people were told the vanilla drow would be available to everyone at launch.  On 2/20 one of the mods went in and edited the faq.  (Drow weren't the only change, more in a minute).

    On 2/25 someone noticed the ninja edit to the faq and started a thread.  Eventually it would be confirmed that a change in policy on the vanialla drow had been made.  When asked why they quietly changed the faq and didn't make an announcement, it was insisted that a change to the faq constituted an official announcement, BUT they deliberately didn't draw attention to the change because they anticipated a negative reaction.

    On the Drow-

    Menzo Renegade will be available at launch, Vanilla Drow AT LEAST 60 days latter.  This has been confirmed now several times, by different people.

    Other Changes-

    Halfling dissapeared from the official launch race list, and was replaced with Half-orc.  The mods do appear to be a bit confused about this change, so it may very well simply be a mistake.

    The control wizard is no longer considered "officially announced," despite an official class video and the announcement that they will be in the next beta weekend.  When asked what was going one we got a lot of cagey lawyer talk, then a mod finally confessed that the CW has been rejected by the Alpha testers several times now.

     

    While the change for vanilla Drow is shady, the bigger issue is the sneaky way they "announced" the change.  Quietly editing a faq that everyone has already read, is cowardly and dirty.  I couldn't care less about the vanilla Drow, but I do care very much about a company that wants my money, deliberately misleading its customers.

    It is not sneaky how they changed their advertisements about what will be in at launch. It's called beta for a reason. 

  • aerinndisaerinndis x, SCPosts: 67Member
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    If it is really bothering the ones who don't get the unlock, then support Cryptic with the Founder packs. Because the only income Cryptic will be making is from the cash shop after launch since the game will be free to download and free to play. Cryptic employees have to earn a living just like anyone else.

     

    No way would I pay $200 just to access a race. That's ludicrous. Perhaps if they were selling the Drow race on its own for a reasonable price in the cash shop at launch. Besides, the Drow that comes with the Hero pack is the Menzoberranzan Renegade background. Just the plain vanilla Drow was always going to be free.

    But like I said, I don't care about playing a Drow. I just think it's a mistake on their part to not include them, as Drow are really popular, and some people simply won't play if they can't make the race they wanted. They even know it's an unpopular decision. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tokini
    Originally posted by Dragonfish

     

    2. They made this decision internally some time ago, and decided not to make it public because they KNEW it would be an unpopular decision. This is their words, not mine.

     

     

    i dont care that they withold certain things or make others 'founder' exclusive, but this right here is a shady and incredibly stupid way to do business, if true.  

    Cryptic never fails to pull some kind of shenanigan to make themselves look bad.  They've done this over and over with every game they've made, pre-release and after.  Hell, they really garnered a bad repuation after City of Heroes released and they went through with game changing nerfs that cost them huge numbers of subscribers and they never bothered to reverse them.  They pride themselves on being obstinate, combative and condescending toward their customers.  Kind of like Brad McQuaid and Mark Jacobs, Raph Koster and Matt Firor.

    image
  • augustgraceaugustgrace Cottonwood, CAPosts: 624Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Czanrei
     

    It is not sneaky how they changed their advertisements about what will be in at launch. It's called beta for a reason. 

    I'm not sure you understand what sneaky means.

    sneaky - marked by quiet and caution and secrecy; taking pains to avoid being observed; "a furtive manner"; "a sneak attack"; "stealthy footsteps"; "a surreptitious glance at his watch"

     

    Going in and editing an old faq and deliberately not drawing attention to the change, is the very definition of sneaky.  They even admit they did it all stealthy style, because they didn't want to deal with the reaction.

    And yes the game is still in beta, but 1) changes should be announced, and 2) money has changed hands which creates a certain level of responsibility in relation to how testers (now customers) are treated.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    tracked it down the offical qoute on it, friends will be pissed,

    called it like a month ago

    wont say i told you so cause i dont wanna die

     

    dousnt really bother me ill just add this to my ever increaseing list of reasons i dont think this game will be any better then the rest of cryptics/PW cash grab express games.

    i should know i was burned twice by them neer agian

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • LanessarLanessar PALM HARBOR, FLPosts: 87Member

    Here's the thread where a moderator chips in.

    And the quote:

     

    [quote]-Halfling may be an oversight...and Half-Orc a bit of a leak because that hasn't been officially revealed...

    -Again, may be an oversight. However I can tell you that the Alpha Testers have sent the poor wizard back to the drawing board at least four times as stated by Crypticmapolis in the NOCS. If he's not in at launch it's because he's not ready.

    -In house it has been decided for a while. It was officially revealed, it just didn't get a huge banner stating 'read this to get angry' 
    This was of course going to be an unpopular decision. As mean as it sounds it wouldn't make sense to point it out and have the forums blow up like they are currently...and likely will continue to through the 60 days past launch.[/quote]

     

    My personal issue with it is that:

     

    1. Drow and "Drizzt clone (Menzo renegade)" are two separate races (per the game files). Drow will just be disabled for everyone. This is contrary to official forum information posted prior to the edit to the FAQ. Thus, there is no "exclusivity" for $200 package peeps. They don't get the "drow" race either.

     

    2. Repeated live streams, interviews, and dev statements (even in answer to the numerous questions on the forums asking "so I have to pay $200 to play drow?" has always stated it would be in for free, at launch. That race specifically was mentioned as free at launch. Then they suddenly change it. Makes you wonder what else might be suddenly changed (this is not "feature isn't ready, we'll have it ready after launch" stuff that I normally understand, but purely some weird marketing guy adding value to the $200 pack - but it doesn't...)

     

    3. Have you ever, in your life, heard of a fantasy MMO launching without a wizard class of some sort? Much less a single DnD title. I mean, ever? If it's not ready, you just delay launch until it is. Just as if the fighter wasn't ready for launch, a rogue, or a cleric. I'd consider it a basic feature, myself.

     

    Bottom line: Ninja edit of the FAQ is actually worse than the whole Klingon debacle, and hearing from the mod (not even a paid employee) that it was intentionally done that way because of the uproar that might happen really doesn't inspire me with confidence in the dev team.

     

    I'd like to note these statements are from a player who does not want to play drow, at any point, before or after launch. There's honesty, and delivering what you promise. Then there's this, whatever that is.

  • VlackeVlacke BelgradePosts: 155Member Common

    Personally i don't have a problem with Drow being exclusive for 60 days because i wasn'y going to pick that race for my first character anyway.

    That being said i can completely understand why many people are pretty much annoyed by this, fact of the matter is that the developers stated many times how Drow will be free for everyone at launch while Menzoberranzan will be exclusive to those who payed for top tier founders pack, so they basically lied which is not a good business practice anywhere...but again, not a big problem for me.

    On the other hand it will be terrible if they decide to launch the game without the wizard class, Wizards/Mages, spellcasters in general are a huge part of Dungeons & Dragons and it's lore, lack of such class would frankly be mind boggling.

  • AbloecAbloec Las Vegas, NVPosts: 315Member

    This is exactly what I stated in the beta discussion on this.

     

    "Ok so here are my 2 cents on this matter.

    Like some other people have said this is a game still in beta, things are ALWAYS subject to change. Like others have said I have never seen a dev specifically come out and say Drow will be available at launch. In the video someone posted earlier he stated Drow would be in the game, he did not say that Drow was a race that will absolutely be in for launch.

    From previous MMO's pay 2 play or otherwise I have learned to pull back from announced features and what not because like I said this is still beta and all things are subject to change. Some people claim to have played games/mmo's for up to 10 years, if this is true tbh its all on you if you are disappointed. By now you should know that things can always change, release dates, things coming into the game and so on.

    The only thing I dislike about this whole situation is PW/Cryptics way of telling us that Drow would not be in the game, that I do believe was pretty low. Other than that I do believe that this is a matter of misplaced expectations. You yourself got it into your minds that Drow would be a release race, when in fact Cryptic never said it was going to be(if someone can link me a dev stating it would be please do). For all the people raging at this, from what I have seen its mainly about the fact that Drow will not be in at release rather than the way they told us.

    I truly do not understand this, I say take this as a learned lesson. Do not allow yourself to build up expectations on games. Like the guy holding up TSO like the company will never do anything to disappoint the consumer base. I mean are you that ignorant to how MMO's are now a days. They release so much information that they are bound to end up disappointing the consumer base. Do not put ignorant expectations on games, you are not privy to all the information and if you are than you would more than likely not be holding up a game on a pedestal.

    I really hope that people can understand that this is coming from someone who has played MMO's since UO and EQ, games WILL always change and disappoint their consumer base. The only thing I am disappointed w/ is the shifty way they told us this information."

    image

    Damnant quod non intellegunt
  • SquatchinSquatchin Quincy, WAPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Don't see the big deal. It is a F2P game after all. An exlusive race for 60 days with a $200 founders pack is not exactly horrible.

    Why do people always focus on what they are not getting for free, rather than what they are?


    People these days seem to have a sense of entitlement, I deserve it therefore I should have it.

    image


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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZombieFeast
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Don't see the big deal. It is a F2P game after all. An exlusive race for 60 days with a $200 founders pack is not exactly horrible.

    Why do people always focus on what they are not getting for free, rather than what they are?


    People these days seem to have a sense of entitlement, I deserve it therefore I should have it.

    Then again there is a lot of good competition from other sub-free games.  Cryptic isn't entitled to my support or money in this either.  It works both ways. In fact it is actually the responsibility of the company that wants my money to offer a deal that appeals to me.

    A problem here is Cryptic put themselves in a foolish position.  The Menzo skin and background racial skills don't differentiate themselves much from the standard Drow.  They put out that all races would be included in base game except for the Menzo background.  They sold a very expensive pack and were under heavy public scrutiny from gamers and sites to deliver on that.

    By the way the standard Drow isn't restricted to only non-payers.  It's restricted for 60+ days period, to all.  Check their forums and there is a clarification by a community relations manager.

    So this isn't as much of an entitlement issue as it is a horrible PR blunder.  This along with their pre-purchase packs have caused a small division in the community at a time when you want a unified positive customer base.  This is a really critical time for an mmo and you want all the positive energy sourrounding the game you can garner.  This is why I call this a huge PR blunder and not just a small petty cash grab.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by ZombieFeast
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Don't see the big deal. It is a F2P game after all. An exlusive race for 60 days with a $200 founders pack is not exactly horrible.

    Why do people always focus on what they are not getting for free, rather than what they are?


    People these days seem to have a sense of entitlement, I deserve it therefore I should have it.

    Then again there is a lot of good competition from other sub-free games.  Cryptic isn't entitled to my support or money in this either.  It works both ways. In fact it is actually the responsibility of the company that wants my money to offer a deal that appeals to me.

    A problem here is Cryptic put themselves in a foolish position.  The Menzo skin and background racial skills don't differentiate themselves much from the standard Drow.  They put out that all races would be included in base game except for the Menzo background.  They sold a very expensive pack and were under heavy public scrutiny from gamers and sites to deliver on that.

    By the way the standard Drow isn't restricted to only non-payers.  It's restricted for 60+ days period, to all.  Check their forums and there is a clarification by a community relations manager.

    So this isn't as much of an entitlement issue as it is a horrible PR blunder.  This along with their pre-purchase packs have caused a small division in the community at a time when you want a unified positive customer base.  This is a really critical time for an mmo and you want all the positive energy sourrounding the game you can garner.  This is why I call this a huge PR blunder and not just a small petty cash grab.

    to me it still seems people making a mountain out of an ant hill.. its a game, if its fun people will play if it's not and has horrible game breaking issues people will not.. imho its a small fraction of potential players that really get up and arms about this sort of thing

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • DaemonweaverDaemonweaver MostaPosts: 100Member Uncommon
     

    to me it still seems people making a mountain out of an ant hill.. its a game, if its fun people will play if it's not and has horrible game breaking issues people will not.. imho its a small fraction of potential players that really get up and arms about this sort of thing

    +1

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,941Member Uncommon
    Cryptic's manta: Why give something away when you can nickle and dime people for it later...
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

    I don't even know why people even wants to play drow...

    I would assume Drizz't, but that memory has almost faded entirely away (at long last) from fandom.

    It's the Real Ultimate Power effect. Teenage boys + black = kewl. One character named "DarkityDarkShadowDarkySilentAssassinMcStabb", coming right up.

    I am sorry, 1982 flashback. Tom's-A-Twit just loved drow...the animosity may never leave me.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    to me it still seems people making a mountain out of an ant hill.. its a game, if its fun people will play if it's not and has horrible game breaking issues people will not.. imho its a small fraction of potential players that really get up and arms about this sort of thing

    I agree.  It's really not a huge deal in the big picture.  But it is a detractor from a unified excited community.  It's not just the drow thing, but how they did the pre-purchase packs.  I've been an early adopter in a lot of games and I've never seen a pre-purchase pack implemented in such a way as to detract from the community like this.

    It will pass I'm sure after the game launches, but I'm still pretty convinced that what would be more productive for their game and revenue stream overall would have been to create a more unified excited community.  That is your best source of advertising.

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Will it cost ZEN to unlock additional Races and Classes?


    All the available races at launch will be free. We are planning to release the regular Drow for free post-launch (after at least 60 days to allow for Founder's Pack exclusivity). Note that only the regular Drow race will become available; the Menzoberranzen Renegade will always remain exclusive to Hero of the North Pack purchases.

    Details regarding additional classes and races should be announced soon!

    This was my favorite one. It's their own FAQ. They ask the question and then don't even answer it.

    Cryptic it's ok. We know it's a F2P game and that doesn't really mean free to play for everything. It is reasonable to charge for things like extra Races and Classes. We've come to expect it. But don't ask yourself the questiona and then not answer it. Silly.

     

     

     

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    Cryptic's manta: Why give something away when you can nickle and dime people for it later...

    Sounds like most peoples mantra.

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