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Do you think instant gratification is ruining MMORPGs?

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  • ariasaitchoariasaitcho Rapid City, SDPosts: 112Member

    You guys have forgotten the P2P vs. F2P/P2W thread for this week.

     

    Seriously though, I'm one of the increasingly rare players who actually reads the quests and manually moves to the location specified in the quest text. I know, wierd huh. I'm annoyed by the "you can reach max lvl in a week" crowd and boggled by the devs/publishers who reward that behavior in CB/OBT and first weeks of open release. "Get free mount/gear/title for reaching max lvl!". Yeah reaching max has what to do with bug testing again?

     

    We need some bug spray to rid us of the infestation of locusts. It's not so much the style of gameplay, but the type of players that are playing; that is the real issue.

    image
  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member

    BINGO! Instant gratification = no satisfaction

     

    Abuzor hit the nail on the head

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    At the end of the day we all have opinions on what has "changed" MMO's from whatever model we preferred (or hated)  to the current state of the gameplay that we eschew.

    Some think the genre gets better every day, others think it's heading straight down. All a matter of your preferences at the end of the day.

     

    This ^^^ all is just a matter of preference.

    Personally, today's MMORPGs are MUCH better games today than in UO/EQ days.

    Why should one persons preference be equal to another persons preference?

  • PoporiPopori Hickory Grove, SCPosts: 334Member

    MMOs are working as intended. 

    When 80% of your target market has an attention span of a couple months, why plan further out than that?  Give them their shinies, show them the carrot, and get to work on MMO2.0 so they've got somewhere to go by Summer.  Pop out an expansion every ## months that resets the shiny count and freshens that carrot.

    The sad sacks stuck in the lurch are the niche gamers of yester-year..too devoted to quit the genre, just ornery enough to wave their canes in protest.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,743Member Uncommon

    Gratification means pleasure or satisfaction.  You know: the reason you bought the game?

    Entertainment is job 1 for games.  If they can't provide that, or if they hide it behind hours of non-fun, the game has failed.

    Reading your OP a bit closer it seems like you're hyper-fixated on level, and think all progression ends once the level counter stops ticking upwars.  That's definitely not true, and virtually nobody is "reaching the top" in any well-designed modern MMORPG.  If it makes you feel better, fixate on item level (or gearscore, or whatever endgame metric a game uses) and realize you haven't actually hit max level yet.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon
    New MMO's are Dumbed down, and simplistic. The older MMORPG's were much more indepth.
  • QuenchsterQuenchster Monroe, MIPosts: 450Member

    Instant gratification can make games really fun. Older multiplayer FPS games used to be casual and hardcore at the same time. You didn't need to unlock any weapons over time. Anybody could jump in and play. You didn't need an account to do anything. You just typed in a name someplace. Clans formed up for hardcore players and clans were all they needed for their PvP fix.

    I've never seen a MMORPG that you could just jump in and play except for GW2 battleground PvP. It is about unlocking things. Instant gratification is the enemy of how PvE currently works in most games and the friend of PvP in my eyes. I doubt PvE could survive without tiers of gear to grind to make up for the fact that bosses are boring to fight more than a few times in most cases.

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    For me, yes. I don't want instant travel, instant epics, instant dungeons, instant instant INSTANT!!! I can play other games for that type of gameplay. I like the "old school" approach to MMO's. Not surprisingly, I don't currently play any MMO's. If the trend is instant gratification, I want no part of it.
  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    Originally posted by Thane

    there is one thing that is ruining mmos, and that's the players.

    nothing else to blame, no matter how long you guys search.

     

    seriously, play a game when you have fun doing so, stop playing it when it's not fun.

     

    thats the way it works, we dont need 1000 theoretical posts about "why mmos are ruined".

    your talking ruins it.

     

     

    there is no reason you HAVE to play a game  that is no fun to you. your clique plays it? fine, play it IF YOU LIKE IT or DONT!

    stop this dumb mass hype. i didnt smoke because my friends did, i wont play games just for them.

     

    become YOU. stop being THEM.

    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    "Do you think instant gratification is ruining MMORPGs?"

    No, I think that people who think every game should be built to their own personal preferences are ruining MMORPGs.

    Both of you seem to be under the impression that there is an alternative to the 'instant gratifcation' style of MMO in the current market. Please point one out to me that isn't about a decade old...

    The reason this discussion, and similar, raises its head on such a regular basis is because the MMO genre is now saturated with instant gratification games, all made in the image of WoW in the hopes to appeal to the casual mass market. These players are looking for an alternative but realise that there hasn't been one for some time... at that point discussion is the only way to have the desire recognised.

    Please don't tell people to stop voicing their concerns just because YOU have no common interest in what they want.

    Instant gratification has ruined MMOs for those that originally played them. The majority of people who like the instant gratification jumped on the bandwagon after it had already become the plague it is. The rest of us get no satisfaction from it as there is no real effort involved in accomplishing anything. It's about time a developer somewhere catered to both in some way by offering genuinely challenging, time-consuming content that isn't exclusive to the raid environment.

     

  • xDracxDrac HamburgPosts: 183Member

    Yeah, I wish devs would make more games like that.

    I actually liked the endless grind in Lineage II, how it took you years of dedication. You needed to put a hell lot of effort and time into your character.... ah, it was amazing. Nowadays it's all just too easy and I really dislike that.

    Back then, being a high-level was something special, something to be proud of. Now it's just..... nothing special at all anymore. Since anyone can be high level within a month or so.

    Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
    Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.com

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    They have taken time sinks away, some are good some are bad.  Most MMO's are pointless these days.

    MMOs were always pointless.

  • xDracxDrac HamburgPosts: 183Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    They have taken time sinks away, some are good some are bad.  Most MMO's are pointless these days.

    MMOs were always pointless.

    Not really, some people use them as ways of relaxing. I don't think that's useless. Some people read books, others play MMOs.

    Lineage 3 - www.lineage3-online.com
    Web & Graphic Design - www.xdrac.com

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Maybe it ruinef for a section of the mmo playerbase. It certainly didn't for me.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Monroe, MIPosts: 450Member

    Social interaction is a form of instant gratification in gaming. It is one of the only actual forms of instant gratification the within MMORPG genre. Think about it. You can exchange messages instantly. Just listening to another person talk can make another person happy. I've seen people surrender this gratification to go "grind" something and I've seen people "grind" just to give themselves something to talk about with another person. Think about that word for a second. "Grind." That word is pretty much used to describe a lack of gratification in what is being done. Things that are a grind bring no joy. Grinds are everywhere in just about all MMORPGs. The word is used all the time. People are only happy with a grind when a grind is finally over. It is this instant gratification of interaction with other players that makes a grind worth going through.

    The only other actual instant gratification in most MMORPGs I can think of is roleplaying. Roleplaying uses social interaction, but I've seen people roleplay alone in singleplayer games before. A person can roleplay on the spot. Nothing prevents a person from roleplaying but perhaps level restrictions from certain areas.

    Edit: PvP could also be considered instant gratification if the player can slay another player without needing to grind stats. As I've pointed out in my other post though that this is rare in MMORPGs. I don't think it can be considered instant gratification just yet.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    I think instant gratification is what made not only MMORPGs more popular, but almost all video games in general. When you eat a pellet in Pac-Man, you are getting feedback that tells you that you are doing the right thing. This feedback can be found in almost every video game in existence.

     

    Just because it took a long time to get to max level in, say, EQ1, it doesn't mean things weren't constantly instantly gratifying people. Gear drops and xp ticks were always there in MMMORPGs giving the player instant gratification. The only thing they've done is expanded the amount of times per second and the magnitude of instant gratification feedback.  Without expanding that, people would presumably lose interest (or have less interest) in the current market of games.

     

    Instant gratification is a cornerstone of MMORPGs, not the current downfall of them. Actually, MMORPGs are doing better today than they ever have in history. So while I understand your personal opinion is that you would like less instant gratification-like systems, it's fairly obvious that most people don't.

  • MagicBobMagicBob londiniumPosts: 3Member

    I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

    GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

    Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MagicBob

    I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

    GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

    Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

    Do you think that's because you are older and realize those level-ups are as pointless as everything else? Do you still get a sense of accomplishment from leveling up in extremely grindy games where you have to kill mobs over and over again?

  • MagicBobMagicBob londiniumPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by MagicBob

    I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

    GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

    Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

    Do you think that's because you are older and realize those level-ups are as pointless as everything else? Do you still get a sense of accomplishment from leveling up in extremely grindy games where you have to kill mobs over and over again?

    It could be.  But no, I think it is because all mmo's have been turned to 'easy-mode' by default.  

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member
    [mod edit]

    Funny, I loved FFXI as a kid, and loved it just as much when I went back to it again last year, so clearly what you're saying is a load of crap.

    It has nothing to do with me or anyone else growing up that I dislike modern MMOs, it's that the more recent releases are plain awful compared to the older ones, which are STILL enjoyable now despite the dated graphics and clunky interfaces. Older games made you feel like you were making an effort to get a reward; modern ones reward you for practically anything. It's a night and day difference and has nothing to do with the tired 'nostalgia' argument that your kind love to spout everywhere.

    We would like just ONE modern release in the vein of the older games with more challenging systems. With a sea of mindless instant gratification MMOs saturating the industry now it would not be selfish to desire just one game to be different.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Popori

    MMOs are working as intended. 

    When 80% of your target market has an attention span of a couple months, why plan further out than that?  Give them their shinies, show them the carrot, and get to work on MMO2.0 so they've got somewhere to go by Summer.  Pop out an expansion every ## months that resets the shiny count and freshens that carrot.

    The sad sacks stuck in the lurch are the niche gamers of yester-year..too devoted to quit the genre, just ornery enough to wave their canes in protest.

    Reason why most of there attention span is a couple of month because after the first month they done everything and get bored

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member
    Originally posted by VikingGamer

    "Do you think instant gratification is ruining MMORPGs?"

    No, I think that people who think every game should be built to their own personal preferences are ruining MMORPGs.

    ding ding ding    We have a winner!

     

    Came pretty early, too.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • DzoneDzone bowling green, KYPosts: 351Member Uncommon
    You know, some of us never grow up and our lives stay the same for years. So the Old schoolers are still there, some ppl just dont wanna change. If they actually made an old-school MMO again, that company would have the monopoly on it. Cause all those Modern-day MMO's have so MUCH Compatition its CRAZY. Maybe some day some developer will realize that and develope that oldschool mmo's alot of us have been cramering for.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Dzone
    some ppl just dont wanna change. If they actually made an old-school MMO again, that company would have the monopoly on it.

    Well, at least until said company wanted to do its first big expansion/update, anyway. Doesn't fix the problem, just resets it and starts again.

    Or have you never heard an old school player complain about how wonderful (title X) was, right up until (expansion Y), in the same paragraph? No matter how much we kick our feet and demand mom to come and fix it, time just refuses to stand still. And we never recover how cool that toy was, even when we buy it in its original box at a hundred times its original price.

    How come MMO companies rarely (never?) retain their "cool" factor, with players, for a second title?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Dzone
    some ppl just dont wanna change. If they actually made an old-school MMO again, that company would have the monopoly on it.

    Well, at least until said company wanted to do its first big expansion/update, anyway. Doesn't fix the problem, just resets it and starts again.

    Or have you never heard an old school player complain about how wonderful (title X) was, right up until (expansion Y), in the same paragraph? No matter how much we kick our feet and demand mom to come and fix it, time just refuses to stand still. And we never recover how cool that toy was, even when we buy it in its original box.

    One of my personal favorites. It hit a couple of notes that resonated.

  • exile01exile01 arePosts: 244Member

    You guys dont get the big picture- thats why you make those pointles threads in a 7day cycle.

    Grind= Luxury

    You cannot afford Grind in a high developed world because it takes time- and by todays standard its jsut DUMB. Your wasting your human ressource on something you dont get back. 

    Instant gratification= modern way, adapted to a high develope country.

     

    And yes if you still dont get the picture:

    high developed country= lots of people with bachelor degree and higher education standard.

    Thats why grind=waste of time=dumb

    And not just DUMB- its the DUMBEST thing you can do in a mmorpg.

     

    oh and if still you guys dont know: CHINA ONLY GOT f2P GAMES BECAUSE ALL OTHER PLATFORMS WERE FORBIDDEN BY LAW!!!!!

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