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What would appease disgruntled Elder Scrolls fans?
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No, I'm not talking about switching between Cyrodiil campaigns. The mega-server currently creates and moves people around different instances of the same area. So if your friend is playing then you could join his instance. In other words there is no servers to hop between.
World PvP is not a-la WoW. I don't want battlegrounds but I do think organized open world PvP would be a respectiable subsitution.
There is no PvP in explorer mode... although I would welcome a manual FFA or Faction wPvP flagging system while exploring.
Why shouldn't we ask for FPV, the series is known for it. Anyways, that's why I suggested a FPV only Cyrodiil campaign. That way FPV can play together and not worry about TPV advantages. It would be a nice touch to remember and respect people who like that PoV.
I figured a subscription fee would warrent some bandwidth. I was actually suprised to see that a private server type thing is becoming popular and we may see something like this in an upcoming MMO. The Private Server would be a great way to give players that SP/Co-op TES feel, allow housing and developer made mods. It could also be used as a tool for guilds for leveling alts or foster guild bonds.
LOL, you must be trying to hurt my feelings. Granted these ideas are pretty raw but I'm only one man. You must have high expections to think a forum poster (without a team of designers) would have professional grade ideas. I was asked what would please me and I answered. You can insult me all you want but it means nothing.
I agree with you that people have every right to voice their opinions. It's the implied concept that the developers should change course and do something to appease them that I have trouble with.
I have been a fan fo the TES series and have played the heck out of every one of them since Arena, At the same time I have usually had an MMO going on the side as well (with Skyrim it was SWTOR...talk about contrast lol.) I like both environments: the great freedom possible in single player games and the more managed style of MMOs...some are better than others but I don't expect to see my single player features in an MMO any more than I expect to be able to see my FIFA features to play soccer with an enemy's decapitated head in a single player RPG.
The "conceptual direction" as you call it, is a very important core feature of design. Design is not just the nuts and bolts of which 3D engine to use or who to hire for voiceovers. Zenimax has made their choices and neither I nor you nor anyone else has any clue yet how the whole TESO game experience will feel.
I think one of the problems that is in part responsible for the over-heated rhetoric in this forum is that TES has always been the most sandbox-like of the single player RPG series so fans assumed that a TES MMO would also be a sandbox. It isn't one. It's a hybrid that leans heavily in the themepark's direction. This is a choice Zenimax made knowing full well what the TES franchise is all about.
Why did they make that choice? Well, one reason may be that MMO players only say they love sandboxes but they have never put their money where their mouth is. Other than Eve, not many people in 2013 are paying to play sandbox MMOs. We get excited about their announcements, follow their development with great interest, participate in their forums...and then we don't buy them.
There's always a "next great" golden sandbox child on the horizon--currently that would be Archeage and The Repopulation for me--and I'm just as hopeful for those to be the sandbox breakthrough as everyone else. But that's us, the hardcore MMO consumers who play a lot.
Zenimax chose to go for more mainstream mass appeal as part of their design decission. If they hadn't, Darkfal would have been the end result--complete with FPV and targetting, housing, skill leveling, etc. Maybe they noticed that very few people play DF... IDK.
I've played and enjoyed sandboxes and themeparks and have no particular bias when it comes to them--both types have pluses and minuses. I don't see Zenimax' choice as a "betrayal" a "bastardization" or any other melodramatic term you want to throw at it. It IS an interesting decision from those who know TES best, to say the least. But it may be a good one. I'll reserve judgement until after I play the damn thing (see my post with beta info elsewhere.)
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm easy. Release a game that isn't a bug ridden mess and I'll give it a shot. While I may have become accustomed to horrendous quality control in my ES titles, that doesn't mean I like it, or am willing to pay a sub for it.
Also sub fee, have a sub fee. While we're at it, lifelike npcs with more than 3 lines of dialogue to choose from.
Getting into the weirder end, I'd like solo or small group randomly generated exploration dungeons/forts/cave systems which one must find a la scanning down sites in eve or some other mechanic even just by stumbling accross them, anything which allows variable placement for them. Hmmm, also huge-ass non- instanced dungeons riddled with passages where one party may run accross another while exploring and share map info, whatevs.
Make torches MORE necessary to see. i.e. if you're underground with no torch or alteration caster, make dark really dark, not kind of like starlight.
So I'm not easy, but if the launch is smooth and lacks bug upon bug, i'll still likely give it a shot.
What would appease me? Ditch PvP and make an actual Elder Scrolls Game.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
These are few things I think Zeni could've done different to be more faithful to the IP;
And again this comes up. DO that and you turn the game into a WoW clone. There is no debating it, it is the exact style of MMO that has been mass produced for the last 8 years.
In short, you either make it a WoW clone or you innovate on the core systems of an Elder Scrolls game and put it in an MMO skin which has rarely been done. I'll take my chances with ZOS's version over WoW clone# 7410.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
TES games have never been pure sandbox games. They all had story-lines that where quest-driven. However, what defines a TES game according to Bethesda is the ability to go to that mountain top you see in the distance. This gives you the freedom to play a TES game as a sandbox game.
I do understand why Zenimax would not opt to make a sandbox game. But that does not mean they needed to make decisions that would hurt the central characteristic of the Elder Scrolls IP. I do not understand why they made that decision, while they could have gone in many other directions that would not result in faction and zone locking, but yet they did. Evil tongues say it was just them being lazy and/or still being in love with the DaoC model.
Maybe, I don't know, but I see reason to be hesitant for TES fans to embrace TESO.
It takes one to know one.
You realise that it never had PvP as a focus because it was single player. This is a MMO. PvP is pretty much the ultimate player interaction, and gives far more replayability. If you want solid PvE you are better off waiting for the next single player ES.
Things that are fundamental to single player games, are not fundamental to MMOs, and vice versa. If Street Fighter ever became a MMO, I would have to give it some breathing space to adapt, rather than expecting to play it like the 2D fighter. The same applies to single player RPGs becoming MMOs, you can't expect them to be identical because they just don't work the same way.
The lore behind the factions and war has been explained. This isn't set in the same era as the single player ES games.
Everything always comes down to People's Opinions when your dealing with people.
And Basically this is my Opinion being added to this thread.
As for What would have Appeased the Elder Scrolls Fans? Actually Making Elder Scrolls into a MMO using The Elder Scrolls Ideas incorporated into a MMO(changes would need to be made for Balance Reasons Of Course/making sure nothings abused etc etc.) however TES:O Dev's Decided that They will use every other MMO's Ideas and Incorporate those into a Elder Scrolls Theme game and Cut out Many of The Elder Scrolls Games Defining features.
Basically from my Standpoint it looks like TES:O Dev's are making their decisions based on the fact that its Easy cash/crazy safe business standpoint Using a TES IP + DAOC Ideas / Design in the same game. Rather then Take the Risk of actually Making a More Unique MMO Experience that many probably have never experienced. however I doubt the Game with its current designs will have Success Long Term but only time will really tell if that statement is true.
Hmm... if you don't consider TES games sandbox you have a very, very strict idea of no developer guidance via quests, stories or whatever. Does a game like that even exist other than Minecraft?
TES games have no classes, have housing, in-depth crafting and although the world is alive with many different story arcs, no one tells you which must be done first or next. Says sandbox to me.
As to go anywhere you can see... yeah you can go anywhere they chose to show you and confine that particualr episode to. All of them tiny portions compared to the "limiting" half we have access to (half = your faction quarter plus the Cyrodil quarter) in the MMO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think you missed the word pure. But maybe it will be a comfort to know I miss the point of your post if it is not confirming what I already said.
It takes one to know one.
I didn't miss it, I just ignored it because I don't know what a pure sandbox is...do you? Which is why I said "sandbox-like" in my description in the previous post before you replied saying it isn't a pure one...
So yeah, you're right we see what we want to see,
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
PvP is what is causing all the strife with TES:O. Without PvP, there would be no locked out areas. Without PvP, class balancing would be a non-issue. PvP, in this case, seems to be taking away freedoms that TES players are used to in their games, not creating more freedoms.
I realize that most MMO players feel that PvP is, as you put it, "The ultimate player interaction", but for me, that interaction is grouping, being on the same team, being friendly, trading with each other, helping others out, not trying to knock each others' blocks off.
I am sure that this game will be very popular amongst MMO players. It seems that time after time, ZOS's decisions have been towards that goal. I never had any inkling to play an MMO heavily based on realm vs realm PvP, especially DAoC. If ZOS wants to do that aspect right, they must focus most of their attention on it. Otherwise, it falls short.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I think a lot of criticism levelled at the game due to IP purists is misaimed - it's an MMO, and MMO elements preclude certain solo-game tropes.
A lot of DAoC fans are hyped to see the style of PvP as-is because they see it as a 'successor' to their much beloved MMO regardless of IP.
What few see - in the over-hastily weilding their brushes to tar anyone but their own 'faction' is that the two sets of expectations could have been melded in such a way as to complement each other rather than spoil one or the other...
... What would appease ES fans is some redress in this regard - as it is their love of the freedom to explore which has been sacrificed to facilitate the PvP as Zenimax have decided to set it up currently.
There are several interesting suggestions on this particular issue which, contrary to the claims of the various 'agents provocateur', 'doomsayers' and ' "you can't ever change anything" beta-personalities' lose on the forums, could be done, even at this stage.
For the other issues - the likelihood of such factions forming, the lore-correctness of such a period of rampant 'mayfly emperors' etc. - well, something had to give, and these to my mind aren't game breakers.
Small beer compared to 'invisible walls' in terms of ruining one's immersion and enjoyment while playing.
How can you have a true personna.......and be all things to all people.
Be the vision in Matt Firors head....when I started the project and "they will come".
They are butthurt because they like elves and their friends like lizards, basically. And because they don't know the meaning of spin-off.
Its not that hard.
1. You let any race join any faction.
2. You have faction clothes (like TSW). It you wear them you can attack and be attacked by anyone else wearing their faction clothes. Guards and stuff from enemy cities would also attack you, etc. However if you aren't wearing the faction clothes you can come and go where you like.
There fixed. You can be any race to play with friends. You have open world pvp without ganking lvl'ers or pve types. You can still have a zone of open warfare. And players can explore as much as they want.
There fixed. You can now play booring GW2 RWR with no faction pride at all. You won't hate your enemy ... your enemy is same race as you. If they do anything with this game i hope they wont do anything like this.
Nothing.
Whining and arguing on this forum is more important than getting the game "they" want.
Within reason...not made it a DaoC clone or mess with the lore to fit the DaoC changes.
We already have had MMOs PROVE you can have race/faction combinations OPEN and not have mouthbreathing moronic players suddenly not being able to know who is the enemy and not be able to PvP because their tiny minds cant figure it out like they believe is the case (yes its on their site)
We have already had MMOs PROVE you can chose a faction AFTER character creation so the idea they need to be locked is MORONIC and un-TES like.
We have already had MMOs give us ACTUAL wars between factions without magical walls preventing it from spilling over out of a mystical place everyone is fighting over that is not tied to their factions lands. The very idea of factions being close to the other factions is NOT TES at all.
They are not even following TES LORE. At NO POINT during the 2E period was there a massive war with the Imperials, 1 of the factions were NEVER a remote threat, the second NEVER ATTACKED the imperials and the 3rd tried ONE TIME and never actually got TO IMPERIAL LANDS!
Not even after the fall of the last imperial protector was there a war in imperial lands until Tiber came along and took over...and that was over 400 YEARS after the fall of the last protector of the empire!
If they just dropped this 3 faction DaoC crap they could make an ACTUAL TES game, only online...instead we are getting every single limitation MMORPGs have had since DaoC decided to make PvP for Carebears even THEY think arent smart enough to recognize an enemy!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Full world exploration outside of faction zones. More end game options other than Cyrodiil. A pvp server would be nice but would be just as happy with full world exploration. I think Zenimax really painted themselves into a corner with this "megaserver" idea. And the eharmony style player matching system just sounds terrible.
1. Classless skill based advancement
2. Open World
3. Actually be an Elder Scrolls game rather than Massively Multiplayer Redguard, which sucked monkeys back in '98
I do like the third person perspective though
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com