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[Column] General: Subscription & F2P

2

Comments

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    oh boy here we go agian.

    ok iv done this argument a dozen times so im gonna do the short version.

    i dislike F2P

    thats it,anything else i say will just be turned around to make me sounds stupid, no matter how i say it. its kinda like a mgaic trick.

    now let the bashing and hypocricy continue

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member
    When's the last time a game was worth a sub?  Well you can get somebody to sub a game no matter how big a pile of crap it is.

    The problem is when you spend tons of money on an mmo (most going for non-game play things like Ads & VO), a hand-full of loyal customers is not enough.

    Unfortunately since the game spent more on dazzle than substance there is no player retention.

    Also not all ftp is equal, SWtor is nothing but a money grab.  They do everything to try to get you to sub.  Tera, Aion on the other hand are amazingly cash free.

    Finally there is choice, something that wasn't around much at the start of MMO's.  If you want to make money whether ptp, btp, or ftp you have to make a good game and be smart about your budget.
     
  • KitsunechiiKitsunechii Posts: 10Member

    People seem to confuse F2P and Pay2win... true, that has been the case with many F2P before, but more and more free mmos only put Vanity items in their cash shops. Well apart from the regular EXP boosts, but those doesn't really influence the other players.

    And if im not mistaken there was an article here about the incredible numbers that the "F2P Comapnies" make.

     

    I may be wrong about this but it seems that P2P games are ALMOST only played by hardcore elitist jerks... Reason being (from personal deduction) is that you won't get to experience the whole game as a casual player. And let's be honest, hardcore gamers are a minority.

    The best model for all would be B2P... or perhaps a more customized subscription option like Dofus have with all from 1 week to 1 year. that way you can plan ahead and not lose as much money as you would with a strict monthly sub

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,743Member Uncommon
    I agree with an earlier psot that said with p2p I cant play anymore once the payment stops....Also you feel more obligated to play when you are paying for it...With f2p we come and go as we please, take breaks whenever we feel like it, pay for the features we want, can sometimes purchase items we never could have obtained in game, etc......Years ago when we really had no other option, p2p was fine...I didn't like paying 15 bucks a month for EQ, WoW, or EQ2 but the free options back then were not very good......TOday though that is in the past...There are tons of free MMOs and we literally have a good selection of whatever kind of game you want.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon

    I'm probably going to get laughed at, but I'd much rather see a model like SWTOR than WoW. 

     

    I love WoW and played for years until just recently, and here's the reason why. There is ALWAYS, inevitably, a period between when an expansion is released and getting your final end-game content that you hate yourself for paying monthly. I just paid $60 for your content, got through it in, say, a month and now I've got to wait 6 more months ($90 more) before I get your end-game content? Awww hell no! 

     

    That being said, I re-allocated my money over to SWTOR. I was playing F2P on there before that and I don't know what people are talking about here, whether it's ignorance or what, but I probably invested $10 in my main character in SWTOR before I subbed and it was well worth it. Now if I got to end game content, then I'd need to invest another..... meh, $20? But I mean that's a month away, right? So for 30 bux I get a toon that's decked out and all good, plus preferred so it's not AS hampered as the purely free play (which my kids play on and is fine). 

     

    Only reason I subbed at all is that there is a 25% XP boost for subscribers, and why shouldn't there be? Contrary to people saying that they feel less valued, I feel more valued as a subscriber. Plus, I get comped some of this "market" currency each month which also increases the value of my subscription. So I just bank all that currency and once I've leveled all my toons to the level I want then I go back to F2P and I still have a ton of currency I can use to trick them out. So for a net cost of around $10 a month I get myself a 25% boost to leveling, plus rest experience, which makes it worth my time. If you're casual with it then don't spend a dime, you really don't have to just to enjoy the story, which is great. 

     

    So I really don't know what all the griping is about SWTOR. I could point you at a dozen sites where I'm sure you could find a few dozen very free cookie-cutter MMOs that will offer you very little in the way of satisfaction or originality. 

     

    I think that the moral here is really, subscription or F2P, doesn't matter, if you like a game and play it on a regular basis, then support it! 

     

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MishakaiMishakai westminster, COPosts: 105Member

    With me an F2P game is all about how you feel when you play it.

    Does it feel like the developers want you to play their game, or does it feel like the developers want you to open your wallet.

    I have noting against F2P games, it's really all in how they implement the not-free portion of it.

    I tried the SWTOR F2P, and even though I pre-ordered and held a sub for close to a good year, all that garnered me in the long run was nothing more than someone who just downloaded the game could get for a $5 purchase in the cash shop.  It seemed like every other button I pressed the game was asking for my credit card number.  Even worse was how it seemed that the F2P UI features felt slapped on top of the game rather than integrated into it.

    Compare that to the TERA F2P, another game I pre-ordered and held a sub for about 6 months.  I can do anything I want in that F2P version, and if I choose to sub again, the bonuses essentually amount to lower taxes for market transactions etc.

    Guess which F2P game I wil be playing after work tonight?  I'll give you a hint.... BAM!

  • nbtscannbtscan Phoenix, AZPosts: 774Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kitsunechii

    The best model for all would be B2P... or perhaps a more customized subscription option like Dofus have with all from 1 week to 1 year. that way you can plan ahead and not lose as much money as you would with a strict monthly sub

    The problem I have with B2P games is that you're going to be limited in how often you get updates to the game since all the money put into the game was frontloaded.  I'd be curious to know just how much money a game such as GW2 makes monthly on microtransactions because that's the only thing that supports the game until they sell an expansion.

    I like P2P games because I know that if the game is good enough to have a healthy subscription base, people will keep playing and money will keep getting funneled back into the game, allowing development to continue unhindered since the game company is able to continue paying their development team.  

    I personally think F2P is something that appeals more to the younger generation - college students with limited income or kids still living with their parents.  This may be an overgeneralization since I'm sure there are older people who just aren't in a financial position, for whatever reason, to be able to play a P2P game.  I just get irked more than anything when people demand that a P2P game should have a F2P option.  If the game is able to sustain a healthy population with a P2P structure, why does it need F2P?  The game doesn't need an option for freeloaders if it's financially stable.  Give people a downloadable trial and if they like it they can subscribe.  If not, oh well.

    I guess my dislike for F2P also stems from the practice of DLC in games.  I feel that if I buy a game and the content is on the disc, I shouldn't have to pay extra to unlock it.  If you develop brand new content for a game later down the road, then sure, I'm on board with that.  But it's ridiculous when you get these preorder bonuses from Gamestop or whatever for '0day DLC content' and the shit is already on the disc.

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon

    People will buy anything, that's why we're seeing F2P Cash Grabs, P2P Item Malls, and 20 DLC's 3 months into a new game.

    FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    I like either pricing model depending on how they are implemented. Mostly though, my decision for what games I play is based on how much I actually like the game itself and not it's pricing model. Is the game interesting to me? Does the game play well? Does it have what I'm looking for?

     

    The one thing I really hate is a sub with a shop. Funcom was toying with the idea in TSW and later had to chage the model to B2P. Good move in my opinion, but I can't help but wonder what they were thinking when they released a Box + Sub + Shop game into the current MMORPG environment.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.  That's the foundation of my move away from sub-locked games.  The money I spent on renting temporary access is basically flushed down the sewer until and unless I cough up more cash.  I don't find value in that payment model.

    No, instead people are renting temporary inventory space, temporary mounts, and temporary buffs that make the game actually bearable to progress in.

    And let's not even touch on the strong trend of making loot a paid for RNG gamble. Or the pay to achieve factor in buying progression (because in these games,developing your character, even visually, *is* a form of progression). Lets not talk about how they create super transient and non committed player bases that make it very hard to build half way decent communities (and give us ones that usually just end up as a toxic sludge of trolling).

    Yeah, cash shops are awesome. The piecemeal breaking up of content to be sold to us for 10 times (or whatever) the price of an expack (which you could also actually, y'know, play) is a fantastic step forward for the consumer.

    I find full on value in a sub that allows me to play as much as I like and access all the content in game according to my own achieving (and not the use of my CC).

    'F2P' and cash shops have a horrible additional impact on core game design. They are a shady model that hides true cost and one that has an active interest in manipulating it's more gullible and vulnerable players to spend ever more. Folks need to think about the true price of it all before stopping at 'kewl, I saved £10 this month' (because, if they were truthfull, they probably didn't).

    Yeah, people can rent stuff in sub-free games too, but I don't support those features financially.  I don't rent stuff from the cash shop in sub-free games either.  I buy things that enhance my account like storage, characters slots, or mounts/items.  I also subscribe and buy premium status.  Like I said I'm subscribed to Tera at the moment.

    The difference being sub-locked games only offer rental. Sub-free games offer choice.

  • akkedis86akkedis86 pretoriaPosts: 108Member Uncommon

    Free to play to me makes a game seem very cheap, and not worth  it. 

    F2P also destroys an mmo dynamic and community, as it breaks the loyalty one had to the game, and you get a huge amount of people hopping games constantly.

     

    I would rather go B2P, but it is my experience that B2P titles do not do allot of content, and provide less flexibility for the vendor. 

    Ultimately, this will provide us with more choice.

    Even lowering subs to $6 per month for some games might bring in more people, as that's not really money, might also have diffirent levels of subs catering to diffirent playstyles.

    And Students , drink one night less and you'll have your entire monthly sub and more .

     
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.  That's the foundation of my move away from sub-locked games.  The money I spent on renting temporary access is basically flushed down the sewer until and unless I cough up more cash.  I don't find value in that payment model.

    No, instead people are renting temporary inventory space, temporary mounts, and temporary buffs that make the game actually bearable to progress in.

    And let's not even touch on the strong trend of making loot a paid for RNG gamble. Or the pay to achieve factor in buying progression (because in these games,developing your character, even visually, *is* a form of progression). Lets not talk about how they create super transient and non committed player bases that make it very hard to build half way decent communities (and give us ones that usually just end up as a toxic sludge of trolling).

    Yeah, cash shops are awesome. The piecemeal breaking up of content to be sold to us for 10 times (or whatever) the price of an expack (which you could also actually, y'know, play) is a fantastic step forward for the consumer.

    I find full on value in a sub that allows me to play as much as I like and access all the content in game according to my own achieving (and not the use of my CC).

    'F2P' and cash shops have a horrible additional impact on core game design. They are a shady model that hides true cost and one that has an active interest in manipulating it's more gullible and vulnerable players to spend ever more. Folks need to think about the true price of it all before stopping at 'kewl, I saved £10 this month' (because, if they were truthfull, they probably didn't).

    Yeah, people can rent stuff in sub-free games too, but I don't support those features financially.  I don't rent stuff from the cash shop in sub-free games either.  I buy things that enhance my account like storage, characters slots, or mounts/items.  I also subscribe and buy premium status.  Like I said I'm subscribed to Tera at the moment.

    The difference being sub-locked games only offer rental. Sub-free games offer choice.

     

    I get where you are coming from Tor, but obviously others do feel the need to buy this stuff... Could you drop your sub right now and still feel competitive, or even on par with your subbing guildies, at end game? Would dropping it cause you to eventually just stop playing maybe?  Do many top level payers not sub? How much 'choice' is there in reality?

     

    I haven't logged into TERA recently... how much would, say, a tab of storage, an extra char slot, a mount, and a single outfit cost when added up? Just out of interest. 

     

    One of the problems that grew with me also as I played TERA was that it sells keys to lock boxes as well as rentable stuff in it's pretty overpriced (IMO) shop... keys that unlock chests with vendorable gems that sell for gold, in some cases (diamonds?) a lot of gold. I like a lot about TERA, but this kind of RNG gambling to get loot (a randomised method of gold selling that actually has no set value for your purchase) is a nasty trend in monetisation that I can't support even by playing the game (even though I enjoy it in a lot of ways).

     

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.  That's the foundation of my move away from sub-locked games.  The money I spent on renting temporary access is basically flushed down the sewer until and unless I cough up more cash.  I don't find value in that payment model.

     

     

    No, instead people are renting temporary inventory space, temporary mounts, and temporary buffs that make the game actually bearable to progress in.

     

    And let's not even touch on the strong trend of making loot a paid for RNG gamble. Or the pay to achieve factor in buying progression (because in these games,developing your character, even visually, *is* a form of progression). Lets not talk about how they create super transient and non committed player bases that make it very hard to build half way decent communities (and give us ones that usually just end up as a toxic sludge of trolling).

     

    Yeah, cash shops are awesome. The piecemeal breaking up of content to be sold to us for 10 times (or whatever) the price of an expack (which you could also actually, y'know, play) is a fantastic step forward for the consumer.

     

    I find full on value in a sub that allows me to play as much as I like and access all the content in game according to my own achieving (and not the use of my CC).

     

    'F2P' and cash shops have a horrible additional impact on core game design. They are a shady model that hides true cost and one that has an active interest in manipulating it's more gullible and vulnerable players to spend ever more. Folks need to think about the true price of it all before stopping at 'kewl, I saved £10 this month' (because, if they were truthfull, they probably didn't).

     

    I agree with this completely.

    The only real advantage to F2P conversions is that the diehards game doesn't get shut down.  Games built around this just try to squeeze as much cash from the consumer as possible with barriers everywhere.

    Some things are unlocked with cash but what about questionite, or lockboxes? It's a continued revenue model that demands cash from you to progress.

    I much prefer the sub model because it's a simple service contract. I pay the fee, so I can play as much or as little as I like and have the games whole content avaliable to me.  If I don't want to pay it, I don't get access, simple.

    The OP said it best and it's kinda of counter intiuiative to the industry. There are too many MMOs that came out and were simply subpar and the audience just wasn't big enough to support so many.  Instead of just dying out, (like business in a capitalist models), they instead turned into bastardised Free2try models that charge you for every little thing, hoping that the crevite of being, 'free', gets someone to try it and plonk some money on a lockbox or hotbar access. 

    Hell I'd blame it for day one dlc and preorder bonuses as well, the success of these sorts of models has driven us to this sort of nickel and dimeing of the gamer.

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member
    Double post screw up sorry. Please delete second

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    I have a beef with each pay style.

     

    My beef with B2P or subscriptions is that they are usually no better than the best f2p games, but they are usually cheaper.

     

    My beef with f2p games is a lot of them are extraordinarily shallow. The ones that are actually worth playing are outrageously expensive(see EQ2 and SWTOR). Honestly, those two games are not worth a sub fee, but you can't really play them for free(or a minimal cost), either. Both of those games failed to generate enough subs at 15 a month. So, instead the idea was to get more out of the suckers that played.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by lugal
    People who claim they feel like they are forced to play every day if they sub to game, do they feel the same way about their internet access? Do they enjoy the unlimited access(bandwith throtling not withstanding) the monthly fee provides? Would they prefer a f2p package instead?

    daily internet and phone use is part of our lives if you're not in the third world...this is a stupid question. there's no goddamn question about it becauseyou can't do your work or school work or keep in touch with your friends and family without a phone or internet.

    You do not need internet to stay in contact with anybody. THat is why their is the post ofice and the telephone and most basic of all, feet. We choose the internet for the convience. Can we live without the internet, yes we can and most in the world still do. Now, if you can not communicate with friends and family without the internet, seems you have some issues. So, my question is quite valid.

    Also, in large parts of the world, people do not have unlimited access to the internet like we do. Even that is coming to an end soon as well. Most cellular caries no longer offer unlimited data, Time Warner is testing a teired internet access system. It will not be long till you have a f2p like internet service. You get TImewarners internet, but if you want to see stuff hosted outside thier network, gonna have to pay.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,144Member Uncommon
    I see F2P as way to ruin gaming industry. Period. Yeah, yeah, ... I know ... "but I want system where I pay (via cash shops and alike) only what I need" .... Have no problem with that but FACT is majority (great majority) of players see F2P ONLY as way to freely enjoy on hard work of others and those that buy actually something. F2P just attracts cheap people that are not present in sub based games. If not happy at least they go.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.  That's the foundation of my move away from sub-locked games.  The money I spent on renting temporary access is basically flushed down the sewer until and unless I cough up more cash.  I don't find value in that payment model.

    No, instead people are renting temporary inventory space, temporary mounts, and temporary buffs that make the game actually bearable to progress in.

    And let's not even touch on the strong trend of making loot a paid for RNG gamble. Or the pay to achieve factor in buying progression (because in these games,developing your character, even visually, *is* a form of progression). Lets not talk about how they create super transient and non committed player bases that make it very hard to build half way decent communities (and give us ones that usually just end up as a toxic sludge of trolling).

    Yeah, cash shops are awesome. The piecemeal breaking up of content to be sold to us for 10 times (or whatever) the price of an expack (which you could also actually, y'know, play) is a fantastic step forward for the consumer.

    I find full on value in a sub that allows me to play as much as I like and access all the content in game according to my own achieving (and not the use of my CC).

    'F2P' and cash shops have a horrible additional impact on core game design. They are a shady model that hides true cost and one that has an active interest in manipulating it's more gullible and vulnerable players to spend ever more. Folks need to think about the true price of it all before stopping at 'kewl, I saved £10 this month' (because, if they were truthfull, they probably didn't).

    Yeah, people can rent stuff in sub-free games too, but I don't support those features financially.  I don't rent stuff from the cash shop in sub-free games either.  I buy things that enhance my account like storage, characters slots, or mounts/items.  I also subscribe and buy premium status.  Like I said I'm subscribed to Tera at the moment.

    The difference being sub-locked games only offer rental. Sub-free games offer choice.

    I get where you are coming from Tor, but obviously others do feel the need to buy this stuff... Could you drop your sub right now and still feel competitive, or even on par with your subbing guildies, at end game? Would dropping it cause you to eventually just stop playing maybe?  Do many top level payers not sub? How much 'choice' is there in reality?

    I haven't logged into TERA recently... how much would, say, a tab of storage, an extra char slot, a mount, and a single outfit cost when added up? Just out of interest. 

    One of the problems that grew with me also as I played TERA was that it sells keys to lock boxes as well as rentable stuff in it's pretty overpriced (IMO) shop... keys that unlock chests with vendorable gems that sell for gold, in some cases (diamonds?) a lot of gold. I like a lot about TERA, but this kind of RNG gambling to get loot (a randomised method of gold selling that actually has no set value for your purchase) is a nasty trend in monetisation that I can't support even by playing the game (even though I enjoy it in a lot of ways).

    I also get where you're coming from.  I think for some player types the standard p2p or sub works out great.

    The perks I like out of the sub in that game are the xp bonuses, gold drop buff, and the 10 key allotment.  The store discount is nice, but I haven't used it yet.  The elite mount is okay too, but I already have a couple nice mounts.

    There are things I like and don't like about the Tera cash shop.  The stuff I don't like are the items you rent - mounts and skins - which I think are expensive.  I like that they offer a lot of choice though.  You can rent a skin for a day or week.  You can buy the mount skin for your character or account.  It really does seem to offer payment however you like.

    I don't have to buy storage or character slots because I'm a founder.  Honestly I'm an opportunist more than I am a f2p religious zealot.  I saw what I could unlock with the founder purchase before f2p and snapped it up on 2 accounts.  The character tabs and bank slots are what I would consider reasonably priced.  Both a character slot and a bank tab are 495 emp each.  You can buy all three bank tabs for 1395 as a bundle.

    I do feel like my sub gives me an advantage compared to when I'll drop back down to regular status.  I feel competitive, or rather able to participate in groups with others at my level regardless of my account status.

    The lockbox issue is understandable.  I would rather there be no lockboxes either, but I haven't found them to be an impediment.  I make money from selling them in the AH.  I make money from them by selling the gems or items they drop.  Some stuff was useful but nothing I remember.  I know I don't and won't buy keys, but I will use the keys I get from my elite package and from events.

    That all aside.  What I like is that I can drop into STO and do DOFF missions for a bit and then hop into Tera and farm mobs.  If I don't feel like doing that I can play GW2 or TSW.  I rotate through games and play them until I need a change.  The sub-free option allows me to do that how I like.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lugal
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by lugal
    People who claim they feel like they are forced to play every day if they sub to game, do they feel the same way about their internet access? Do they enjoy the unlimited access(bandwith throtling not withstanding) the monthly fee provides? Would they prefer a f2p package instead?

    daily internet and phone use is part of our lives if you're not in the third world...this is a stupid question. there's no goddamn question about it becauseyou can't do your work or school work or keep in touch with your friends and family without a phone or internet.

    You do not need internet to stay in contact with anybody. THat is why their is the post ofice and the telephone and most basic of all, feet. We choose the internet for the convience. Can we live without the internet, yes we can and most in the world still do. Now, if you can not communicate with friends and family without the internet, seems you have some issues. So, my question is quite valid.

    Also, in large parts of the world, people do not have unlimited access to the internet like we do. Even that is coming to an end soon as well. Most cellular caries no longer offer unlimited data, Time Warner is testing a teired internet access system. It will not be long till you have a f2p like internet service. You get TImewarners internet, but if you want to see stuff hosted outside thier network, gonna have to pay.

    We use our internet and mobile phones daily.  They are part of how our family functions.  You could take your analogy all the way: you don't need cars or restaurants or civil services or utilities.

    The fact is I do use my internet everyday.  If I had an expensive internet package and didn't use it often I would drop it or choose a cheaper package.  I'm subbed to Tera for the time being.  I do feel like a good use of my money is to focus on that game while I'm spending extra on it.  If I'm subbed to a game and don't play it actively I do feel like I've wasted money I could have spent better elsewhere.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by lugal
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by lugal
    People who claim they feel like they are forced to play every day if they sub to game, do they feel the same way about their internet access? Do they enjoy the unlimited access(bandwith throtling not withstanding) the monthly fee provides? Would they prefer a f2p package instead?

    daily internet and phone use is part of our lives if you're not in the third world...this is a stupid question. there's no goddamn question about it becauseyou can't do your work or school work or keep in touch with your friends and family without a phone or internet.

    You do not need internet to stay in contact with anybody. THat is why their is the post ofice and the telephone and most basic of all, feet. We choose the internet for the convience. Can we live without the internet, yes we can and most in the world still do. Now, if you can not communicate with friends and family without the internet, seems you have some issues. So, my question is quite valid.

    Also, in large parts of the world, people do not have unlimited access to the internet like we do. Even that is coming to an end soon as well. Most cellular caries no longer offer unlimited data, Time Warner is testing a teired internet access system. It will not be long till you have a f2p like internet service. You get TImewarners internet, but if you want to see stuff hosted outside thier network, gonna have to pay.

    We use our internet and mobile phones daily.  They are part of how our family functions.  You could take your analogy all the way: you don't need cars or restaurants or civil services or utilities.

    The fact is I do use my internet everyday.  If I had an expensive internet package and didn't use it often I would drop it or choose a cheaper package.  I'm subbed to Tera for the time being.  I do feel like a good use of my money is to focus on that game while I'm spending extra on it.  If I'm subbed to a game and don't play it actively I do feel like I've wasted money I could have spent better elsewhere.

    You do not need returants, you can cook. FOr first world standard of lviing, you do need civil services like water and power, but to live, no.

    The argument Im trying to show is the falacy of paying a sub and not using it 24/7. People in the USA pay for the internet with unlimited access. Do they use it 24/7? No they do not and no they can not. Just like a sub based mmo. I do nt mind the price for Eve Online, for I know the world will be there when I get home and that certain types fo people are moderated out by the company.

    What should be discussed, is what price is fair for the product. The $15 price point probably needs to change in this day and age of numerous choices for MMO's.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • coldandnumbcoldandnumb Gilbertsville, PAPosts: 90Member

    I fully agree with everything stated in the original post. I feel pretty much as the author does on the general direction of mmo's. For me if  I like the game enough I'll deal with whatever it's revenue model is I don't really care anymore about arguing which one is better. If the game is good it will get my support but I won't spend real money on vanity items or stuff like xp boosts if the game is boring enough that I want to skip ahead in the leveling process then it's probably not worth playing in the first place.

    I do agree with what others have stated about the console games with nonsense like paying an extra $15 to unlock what's already on the disc that I just payed $60 for or for paying an extra $10 for a hat or different cosmetic weapon skin that is total nonsense in my opinion.

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  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    "When free-to-play conversions were first touted and attempted"

    Must be shooting for a job at a news organization because you sure do love to write without investigating...

    F2P has been around since late 90s. Its only new to...newbs.

    The pay model was created partly on a LIE and partly on something that hasnt APPLIED IN A DECADE. They created the pay model stating it was to cover the server cost and bandwidth costs...bandwidth costs today are next to NOTHING and the only companies that use outsourced servers are FREAKING MORONS...at the time of the creation of the monthly sub, every single company bought their own servers and ran them, the cost was made up by game sales.

    The lie, needs to die. It has already been proven that companies can make a ton of profit with ZERO subscriptions just as it has already been proven that a sub does NOT bring in quality updates to a game...that one has been proved countless times aint that right Funcom fans?

    End the lie.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Nice how you ignore all the other costs associated with running and making a mmo. Box sales only pay for a portion of the expenses.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon

    I'll gladly pay $15/mo for a game like EVE or WOW. Not because they need it but because I feel they've earned it.

     

    I tipped $5 once for the guy who stir-fried my dinner. I could've played for 10 days with that money.

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  • LithuanianLithuanian vilniusPosts: 204Member Uncommon

    The author seem to dislike Lotro "Turbine points" system – and only God knows why. Since I know of 2 games that are fremium at its best. it's Istaria (no cash shop and everyone gets everything) and Lotro (cash shop easily avoidable with few restrictions).

    There also some logic errors in the article:

    1. No one forces OP to play any mmorpg. No one forces him even to play. And if I play game and have no fun - I just quit it, no matter p2p, b2p, f2p, p2w or else.

    2.  Lotro cash shop may be completely avoided.  To make matters worse, many deeds are just doomed for auto-completing, like "Strike enemies with ANC attack for 750 times". Exploration deeds are almost doomed for that too and I am not talking about quests: any area does have >40-70 quests.

    3. Lotro is not a charitable game: pay what you wish, donate if you wish. WIkipedia does live for such requests...not online games. It offers very simple model: basic areas and quests/deeds are free for everyone, subscriber or not. Some 'advanced" areas are free for subscribers only. And yet some, like Moria, Rohan - are purchasable for everyone who has enough Turbine points or cash. A customer does gain privileges in Lotro: already mentioned bags, fast-travel, no currency cap...and 500 Turbine points monthly.

    Yet this is how Turbine rewards its customers. I found it only naturally: if you have paying person, paying person must have certain privileges in freemium game.

    Same goes with any other game, from Runescape to SWTOR: if you pay, you have more options. One can blame it or praise it - but the fact is, that paying customers allow game to live. Such like me, free-to-play - just leech resources and should be thankfull to paying customers.

    Looks like OP just dislikes pop-ups ("Did you know that Our Store offers Robo Space Chicken Helloween Costume just for XXX gold?") or something like Lotro-like manequins, yet somehow makes conclusion it makes his dollars less valuable.

    OP fought the logic and OP has won. Logic retreats...

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