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AV makes macroing impossible for gains. RIP macroing toons.

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Comments

  • corpusccorpusc Chattanooga, TNPosts: 1,330Member

    things are not black and white.

     

    they are shades of gray.

     

    and Av just turned up the brightness.  or down.  however you prefer.

     

    Darkerfall

    The End
    ---------------------------
    i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    If you have to kill mobs, skin etc for the prowess, you can't macro that. Constantly hitting a mob/player won't give you skill gains or prowess (How people macro now).

    If you must spend prowess to level up attributes, you can't macro to gain attributes directly. You can't macro to gain prowess.

    You can semi-afk hit resource nodes. You can afk craft in mass if you have the resources. But with the public announcement that you can only gain crafting skills through crafting, it's entirely possible that prowess will be removed from crafting OR will be separate from combat prowess.

    So people will try semi-afking nodes to advance. That's a viable way to play as a gatherer but it's not afk MACROING in any sense of the word. Soon as safe zones are depleted you'll have to venture out into the world.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn
    When is the bloody thing going to start. 

    No one knows, assume months though :s Summer??

      Because god knows Tasos said it waas feature complete and ready to plan, not requiring any Beta testing last November.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    You have NO idea how the prowess change will be implemented or how it will impact macroing.  I don't put much faith into AV getting it right.

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Macros require no talent. Good.
  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by wordiz
    Macros require no talent. Good.

    and repeatedly mashing the same button does? image

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    You have NO idea how the prowess change will be implemented or how it will impact macroing.  I don't put much faith into AV getting it right.

    We know you'll have to use it for attributes and skills. That alone says you won't be able to macro them up like we see now. You never put much faith into AV but you still post everyday, here, DF forums, steam, elsewhere so you must have some faith ;)

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    You have NO idea how the prowess change will be implemented or how it will impact macroing.  I don't put much faith into AV getting it right.

    We know you'll have to use it for attributes and skills. That alone says you won't be able to macro them up like we see now. You never put much faith into AV but you still post everyday, here, DF forums, steam, elsewhere so you must have some faith ;)

    Its the gaining of prowess, not how you allocate it . image What part don't you understand?

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    You have NO idea how the prowess change will be implemented or how it will impact macroing.  I don't put much faith into AV getting it right.

    We know you'll have to use it for attributes and skills. That alone says you won't be able to macro them up like we see now. You never put much faith into AV but you still post everyday, here, DF forums, steam, elsewhere so you must have some faith ;)

    Its the gaining of prowess, not how you allocate it . image What part don't you understand?

    And how would you macro to gain prowess... also waiting for you to provide that link for the greenlit status being reconsidered, you seem to be avoiding that one.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Sounds like: 

     

    kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

     

    So I: 

    macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

     

    People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

    If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

    Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.  

    What can you macro to give you points though?

    You have NO idea how the prowess change will be implemented or how it will impact macroing.  I don't put much faith into AV getting it right.

    We know you'll have to use it for attributes and skills. That alone says you won't be able to macro them up like we see now. You never put much faith into AV but you still post everyday, here, DF forums, steam, elsewhere so you must have some faith ;)

    Its the gaining of prowess, not how you allocate it . image What part don't you understand?

    And how would you macro to gain prowess... also waiting for you to provide that link for the greenlit status being reconsidered, you seem to be avoiding that one.

    If it mirrors the current system, mobs.image  What are you talking about and why would I care what you want? I'm still waiting for your proof "macroing is impossible" and I'll keep waiting because it isnt true. How many times do we have to go over the "how?", perhaps you should read the bug section.

     

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    Its hard for people to specifically explain how this is going to be done.  First theres the NDA, which means we cant really explain the prowress system to begin with.  Second...the announcment wasnt specific...we have to wait for the patch to see exactly how its going to work.

    Many have very logical ideas as to how the system will work.

    In a nut shell.  DF 1.0 your actions in games skilled passives and hard stats...everything you did from jumping over a rock, to running through a field and swimming across a river...all added skill...combat and skill use as well...even crafting/resourcing gave some stats and skill gains There were passives, and passives that had passives that you needed other passives in order to get the passives passive...if that make sense.

    DF:UW is going to be different.  As fun as the old system was, nearly everyone exploited it.

    Also...in Darkfall speak...macroing isnt what you thing.  Its effect was the same as botting in a themepark.  However there were lots of self buffs, buff others, debuffs, and damage skills you could set an autoclicker, or auto hotkey, to use the skill overnight and gain skill and stats.  Most did this.  This ruined any form of progression slope and created a group of people who quit and a group of people years ahead of anyone else...which eventually became really the only group of people who stayed, beyond a few oddities.

     

    I will say without breaking NDA...the prowess sytem is a brilliant addition to a sandbox game.  It skirts a lot of the issues sandboxes have, providing goals and reasons, without on rails guidence (beyond the first few steps out the tutorial i guess)

    Its more than just a system, its like a combination of a few systems.  And now its going to be used as the means to skill your character up.  This means that being afk for a day with the auto-clicker running wont net you and returns.

    Its sad this game is getting such neagitve press from the handful of vets who wanted a 1990's quake style combat...something even FPS players dont want anymore (they go for realism and physics based combat though)...theres a LOT of good things going on with DF, though they failed misrably at launching on time...by a long shot...the extra time will be worth it considering how much the games improved since december.

    If your into pvp focused sandboxes with full loot...keep your eye on this game.  Wont be a competator to any sandbox in subs...but its going to again be the best full loot sandbox out there by a long shot...now even more so imo.  I would advise waiting untill a week if not more after the game officially launchers however.  Just to make sure you skip and launch related fiascos with im sure will happen.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Its sad this game is getting such neagitve press from the handful of vets who wanted a 1990's quake style combat...something even FPS players dont want anymore (they go for realism and physics based combat though)...theres a LOT of good things going on with DF, though they failed misrably at launching on time...by a long shot...the extra time will be worth it considering how much the games improved since december.

     

    Its not just a "handful of vets" whom are disappointed with DFUW.  The only camp in the minority are the fanboys, but thankfully AV is listening to all the "Haters" and making changes.

    It really is... the game isn't perfect now and needs some minor balancing and major content but it's a solid game. It's very smooth considering it's in debug mode.

    Mostly upset DF1 vets complaining about a few combat changes.

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Its sad this game is getting such neagitve press from the handful of vets who wanted a 1990's quake style combat...something even FPS players dont want anymore (they go for realism and physics based combat though)...theres a LOT of good things going on with DF, though they failed misrably at launching on time...by a long shot...the extra time will be worth it considering how much the games improved since december.

     

    Its not just a "handful of vets" whom are disappointed with DFUW.  The only camp in the minority are the fanboys, but thankfully AV is listening to all the "Haters" and making changes.

    It really is... the game isn't perfect now and needs some minor balancing and major content but it's a solid game. It's very smooth considering it's in debug mode.

    Mostly upset DF1 vets complaining about a few combat changes.

    Im glad im not the only one who sees it, the beta forums are rife with angry people (well about 20-50) making thread after thread, all with polls, trying to get AV to change the combat.

    The combat of the first game was polished, which set it apart from its competators...but in design it was ancient.  A relic of games like Quake.. No one..not even FPS player want Quake style combat.

     

    And yes...despite their denial, there is a lot of resentment that other players might reach what in 1.0 required tons of practice and 3rd party programs...and thats being actually competative.  Game is going to be easier to compete in, and that enrages a lot of the old vets, they will never admit this.  With new combat mechanics, a new UI, and new roles...vets are going to lose the edge that came with their 3rd party cheats, auto hotkey, and years of experience.  To me this is fantastic, and new players wont have such an issue getting into the game.

  • GreymoorGreymoor ManchesterPosts: 801Member
    Originally posted by Crunchy222
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Its sad this game is getting such neagitve press from the handful of vets who wanted a 1990's quake style combat...something even FPS players dont want anymore (they go for realism and physics based combat though)...theres a LOT of good things going on with DF, though they failed misrably at launching on time...by a long shot...the extra time will be worth it considering how much the games improved since december.

     

    Its not just a "handful of vets" whom are disappointed with DFUW.  The only camp in the minority are the fanboys, but thankfully AV is listening to all the "Haters" and making changes.

    It really is... the game isn't perfect now and needs some minor balancing and major content but it's a solid game. It's very smooth considering it's in debug mode.

    Mostly upset DF1 vets complaining about a few combat changes.

    Im glad im not the only one who sees it, the beta forums are rife with angry people (well about 20-50) making thread after thread, all with polls, trying to get AV to change the combat.

    The combat of the first game was polished, which set it apart from its competators...but in design it was ancient.  A relic of games like Quake.. No one..not even FPS player want Quake style combat.

     

    And yes...despite their denial, there is a lot of resentment that other players might reach what in 1.0 required tons of practice and 3rd party programs...and thats being actually competative.  Game is going to be easier to compete in, and that enrages a lot of the old vets, they will never admit this.  With new combat mechanics, a new UI, and new roles...vets are going to lose the edge that came with their 3rd party cheats, auto hotkey, and years of experience.  To me this is fantastic, and new players wont have such an issue getting into the game.

    This plays a massive part to it. Although I would prefer the combat to be a little faster but with balancing it will be good as it is.

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Crunchy222
    Originally posted by Greymoor
    Originally posted by Hancakes
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Its sad this game is getting such neagitve press from the handful of vets who wanted a 1990's quake style combat...something even FPS players dont want anymore (they go for realism and physics based combat though)...theres a LOT of good things going on with DF, though they failed misrably at launching on time...by a long shot...the extra time will be worth it considering how much the games improved since december.

     

    Its not just a "handful of vets" whom are disappointed with DFUW.  The only camp in the minority are the fanboys, but thankfully AV is listening to all the "Haters" and making changes.

    It really is... the game isn't perfect now and needs some minor balancing and major content but it's a solid game. It's very smooth considering it's in debug mode.

    Mostly upset DF1 vets complaining about a few combat changes.

    Im glad im not the only one who sees it, the beta forums are rife with angry people (well about 20-50) making thread after thread, all with polls, trying to get AV to change the combat.

    The combat of the first game was polished, which set it apart from its competators...but in design it was ancient.  A relic of games like Quake.. No one..not even FPS player want Quake style combat.

     

    And yes...despite their denial, there is a lot of resentment that other players might reach what in 1.0 required tons of practice and 3rd party programs...and thats being actually competative.  Game is going to be easier to compete in, and that enrages a lot of the old vets, they will never admit this.  With new combat mechanics, a new UI, and new roles...vets are going to lose the edge that came with their 3rd party cheats, auto hotkey, and years of experience.  To me this is fantastic, and new players wont have such an issue getting into the game.

    This plays a massive part to it. Although I would prefer the combat to be a little faster but with balancing it will be good as it is.

    What i would like is for skills to be more of a spammy, fast casting, affair.  I want skill use sped up, not the twitch nature of the game sped up.

    Of course it would need to be balanced for such a thing.

    Right now you simply cant spam skills, or even use some skills at all in combat as character resources drain very fast in doing so.  This slows combat.

    IMO i would like to see two skills per role as somewhat spammible.  A few on cooldowns with very quick cast times, but still having cast times.  Then a few top end ultimate skills with cool downs and longer cast times. 

     

    The actual skill use should be a very active part of the game and be done with somewhat of an action flair to it.  Right now skills are seldom used and most people just standard attack as a means to fighting.

     

    But again, the current system is FAR better than the old version. Any new player wont notice the difference for better or worse, and were left with the vets who are super bitter over losing their edge and their 1990's style combat that was so "awesom" 500-1000 people chose to stay...which is beyond ridiculous that they are making the big mess that they are in order to perserve DF as a dead game.

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