Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans, MMO or TES based. You and I are group 3 and as much as we make the most noise, most in that group will buy the game no matter what and as long as they make the game awesome, we will stay be it WoW model or DAoC or any other. You think they made a bad move with the model they picked, but looking at the 3 groups I listed, it will net the most gain IMO and fits the needs of TSE turned into ESO best as a whole. Voice all ya like, buy or dont buy the game. But we know if you are from group 3 and most likely you are, you are going to buy the game no matter what.
I'm not buying the game (unless they make some serious changes) nor did I sign up for beta. You are right, our opinion has little impact on their direction. I just hope we create enough of a commotion that MMO developers will think twice before giving us another generic game.
Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans, MMO or TES based. You and I are group 3 and as much as we make the most noise, most in that group will buy the game no matter what and as long as they make the game awesome, we will stay be it WoW model or DAoC or any other. You think they made a bad move with the model they picked, but looking at the 3 groups I listed, it will net the most gain IMO and fits the needs of TSE turned into ESO best as a whole. Voice all ya like, buy or dont buy the game. But we know if you are from group 3 and most likely you are, you are going to buy the game no matter what.
I'm not buying the game (unless they make some serious changes) nor did I sign up for beta. You are right, our opinion has little impact on their direction. I just hope we create enough of a commotion that MMO developers will think twice before giving us another generic game.
And I am here to make enough noise they dont. Been waiting for a game just like this for a long time. Great lore and story, huge freedom in classes and rolls, 3 faction PvP, PvE area with no PvP so my wife is happy and we can both agree on this game. If they add player housing they can take my money now. Keep up the good work is all I have to say as of now!!!!!
And I am here to make enough noise they dont. Been waiting for a game just like this for a long time. Great lore and story, huge freedom in classes and rolls, 3 faction PvP, PvE area with no PvP so my wife is happy and we can both agree on this game. If they add player housing they can take my money now. Keep up the good work is all I have to say as of now!!!!!
We'll just have to wait til release (or after beta) to see. I'm happy for you though, I don't want to take away your cheese.
And I am here to make enough noise they dont. Been waiting for a game just like this for a long time. Great lore and story, huge freedom in classes and rolls, 3 faction PvP, PvE area with no PvP so my wife is happy and we can both agree on this game. If they add player housing they can take my money now. Keep up the good work is all I have to say as of now!!!!!
We'll just have to wait til release (or after beta) to see. I'm happy for you though, I don't want to take away your cheese.
Im not worried anyone can, 6 years in development and I am sure by now quests, story, dungeons and much more are all designed with one faction on one map in mind. Whats being asked here would most likely cost millions of bucks to do and IMO lose more fans. You get my idea why on the posts I made last page.
Originally posted by xer0skill How about this for a change? If this isn't the game you were expecting, then don't play it. Go out and make the game you want to play, if you think it's so easy. Don't want to? Then why would you expect a company to do so? I'm personally excited for this game because it is an MMO set in a world I know and love. That's good enough for me. As much as I would like to see the MMO version of TES that I have dreamed of, I'm ok with settling for this (for now, anyways). As the tired saying goes, don't like it then don't buy it. What's that other one? If you want it done right, do it yourself.
How about this for a change - If you don't like what you're reading, then don't read it.
sorry refuse to vote in this poll as all the choices are in reality pointing at the same conclusion, what about those of us that dont think its a cheap re skin of DAoC, what about those of us that disagree with you where is the poll opyion for that,
a poll that only give options that point at same answer is not a poll but a cheap excuse for the person who made it to justify what they think
If I do a poll about what shade of dark the colour black is, would you insist I put in a choice which said it wasn't dark, and accuse me of bias if I didn't?
Please - I already said I didn't put a control question in because it would be pointless.
I presume you know what that is?
Bias...
Why don't you put a post on telling everyone there isn't any DAoC whatsoever in this game so we can mock your 'astute observation'.
That is what you are saying right - or are you in fact pro DAoC and bias yourself?
As my post below explains - I am taking a position as one would in a debate - and I encourage you to take the opposite position and try to do anything but look foolish trying to defend the indefensible.
Interesting to see if the poll results in favour of the current game model will fall as low as 1/4.
It seems in steady decline as respondent number increase, and the last option is now in the ascendant.
This poll is all about perception.
One wonders if this is the kind of perception Zenimax wanted to engender?
Don't put to much stock in the poll results. The options are poorly constructed and biased in their phrasing so the last option is the only one that is even somewhat correct, hence it is coming out on top.
Hah! Got to love the people who instead of engaging directly on the issue, call the entire exercise into question without backing up their challenge for the same purpose as the more honest approach.
Sigh, there's only so much one can type while replying with a cell phone. Predictably, I knew you'd call me out and I'd get a chance to do a more formal reply. (because it's obvious you're spoiling for a fight)
Three options stating TES with some DAoC thrown in an one with DAoC as the primary element - and the poll is bias?
I wasn't interested in having a control question where there was no DAoC at all - primarily because a chimp can work out where the DAoC is in the game.
This is about how well it's integrated, and as such, covers the extent of potential possibilities just fine.
TES with DAOC flawlessly integrated - Inaccurate and inflammatory, better way to state it might be TES with strong similarities to DAOC gameplay design.
TES with DAOC clumsily integrated - negative adjective and implies lack of competence, better might be TES with minimal DAOC integration
TES ruined by too much DAOC - Again, negative adjective, implies game will be bad if it is too closely like DAOC. Might be different, doesn't go hand in hand that it will suck.. better might be Too similar to DAOC to be considered a TES MMO
DAOC using a popular IP to generate more sales - This was your only reasonable choice, however the way its phrased the implied message is that this is a bad thing. It's a business decision, no value judgement necessary. A better way to do it might be DAOC based around a popular IP in order to generate more sales.
I disagree with your claims of bias, and would question your motives if there was the slightest chance of finding out what they truly are.
Most of your wording was unnecessarily inflammatory and inaccuate (IMO) and I couldn't even pick one to vote on. (except maybe the last one)
If you would like to quote me some sociology research on the methodology of evidence gathering which is relevant to back yourself up - I'm all ears.
Oh stop, we're having a bit of forum PVP, no need to turn it into a college level debate team effort.
Otherwise a rejoiner is a waste of time wouldn't you say?
As to my motives, I just dont' like seeing people draw incorrect conclusions to support their position from flawed poll data.
That and I enjoy discussing MMO topics on these forums.
Heck, you do realize I agree with you, TESO isn't likely to be much of a TES MMORPG at all, in fact, it really won't be as much like DAOC as people seem to hope/expect. There will be too many modern theme park designs incoporated into it to really be a decent representative of either concept.
Now whether that is a good or bad thing is entirely dependent on what your expectations are. You are clearly disappointed (as I'm sure lots of TES fans are), can't say its anything I really want (I enjoyed DAOC's FFA PVP servers much more, RVR, not so much) but somewhere out there they'll likely find a target market. Just probably not as large as they are hoping for.
I am taking a DEBATING position - I am not trying to prove a hypothesis.
In criticising my methodology - it is you who turned it into a 'college debate'.
To debate reasonably and honestly against my position you would have to take the opposing view - something like this;
"I contend that the TES IP - including its lore, appearance, functionality and gameplay experience is the primary design factor in the locking of factions (including those races so designated) and the 3-way PvP model currently in-game as stated. This has nothing to do with DAoC, and there are no significant similarities to suggest any of the key elements in the success of previous TES games has been negatively impacted by the restrictions put on playfield access and automatic faction allocation on single characters.
You see how from the opposing argument the idea that DAoC, faction lock et al hasn't occurred, seems absolutely ridiculous.
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.
All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.
There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.
It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.
You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
oh look... its another tes / daoc poll by our friendly neighbor Caliburn!
And another one pointless also made only to see people at eachother's necks about TES vs DAoC and how will it be.
Look... design has been decided. Just drop it. Its not going to change and thats great. Listen a TES game with a DAoC layout is the best thing to happen in the mmo industry since 2001.
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.
All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.
There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.
It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.
You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.
'blah, blah'
'whining'
Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...
... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.
I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.
Thank you...
Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...
oh look... its another tes / daoc poll by our friendly neighbor Caliburn!
And another one pointless also made only to see people at eachother's necks about TES vs DAoC and how will it be.
Look... design has been decided. Just drop it. Its not going to change and thats great. Listen a TES game with a DAoC layout is the best thing to happen in the mmo industry since 2001.
Is it?
OK - I bow to your superior ability to crystal gaze...
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.
All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.
There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.
It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.
You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.
'blah, blah'
'whining'
Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...
... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.
I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.
Thank you...
Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...
Oh you're very welcome. I'm happy to keep it front and center so that we may all get to know the way you think better.
After your personal comments about me, your contribution to the "discussion of the argument" in your post was what exactly?
My harsh criticism of what you post is focused, you're just all over the place... are you going to prove what you asked the previous poster to disprove or not?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.
All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.
There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.
It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.
You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.
'blah, blah'
'whining'
Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...
... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.
I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.
Thank you...
Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...
Oh you're very welcome. I'm happy to keep it front and center so that we may all get to know the way you think better.
After your personal comments about me, your contribution to the "discussion of the argument" in your post was what exactly?
My harsh criticism of what you post is focused, you're just all over the place... are you going to prove what you asked the previous poster to disprove or not?
I've addressed your approach to debate on another thread also.
I see you aren't interested in characterising your own position as I asked you to.
Far easier to criticise mine without stating what your own is so it can be inspected abd critiqued in return huh?
This makes any further discourse with you utterly pointless - so flail away on your own - my ignore list is short, but well chosen.
Some of you are labeling and doubting simply because they're using elements that have been used in previous games. That's not really sound logic. Would you prefer they use nothing thats ever been used in a previous mmo? Seriously? Yes, they are using some game designs that have proven successful in previous games. That does not mean they are going to be implemented, or make TESO just like those previous games. You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how this game will be, regardless of what they've told you.
At this point, you're not going to get Zenimax to go back and re-do major game designs 6 years into development, so you just sound like petulant children. Please, show some maturity, and DO NOT create threads or contribute in whining about a game BEFORE BETA HAS EVEN STARTED. This nonsense has made the mmo community so terrible.
Interesting to see if the poll results in favour of the current game model will fall as low as 1/4.
It seems in steady decline as respondent number increase, and the last option is now in the ascendant.
This poll is all about perception.
One wonders if this is the kind of perception Zenimax wanted to engender?
Don't put to much stock in the poll results. The options are poorly constructed and biased in their phrasing so the last option is the only one that is even somewhat correct, hence it is coming out on top.
You see how from the opposing argument the idea that DAoC, faction lock et al hasn't occurred, seems absolutely ridiculous.
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than you created a flawed/biased poll and were drawing inaccurate conclusions from the results. (which btw I notice you didn't respond to and instead shifted the discussion in another direction)
As to the part I just highlighted all I can say is near as I can tell almost everyone agrees with that and there were quotes posted on these forums yesterday from the lead Developer who not only confirmed he wasn't making a Skyrim successor but rather a standard MMORPG (with strong DAOC RVR elements) using the TES IP
I think most people are actually agreeing with you, so you're really banging the drum for no reason.
The only real thing up for discussion is your opinion that this is a bad thing. For some folks it is, for others not so much, just the way it goes I'm afraid.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.
Why would anyone want to buy his next game?
It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.
I know eh? That's why I think doctors should lose their license if one of their patients dies.
PS... Matt was still working for wassisname at the time... I'd be cautious about an MJ game. Matt? I don't know which chunks of WAR and/or DAoC he was responsible for. MJ had final responsibility for them both.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.
Why would anyone want to buy his next game?
It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.
Funny thing you bring out there. Warhammer tried to pull away from the DAoC winning method. Many are asking for PvP to be everywhere not this 4 maps DAoC system but Matt brought war everywhere to Warhammer. Pockets of war no matter where you went with the ability to push the war right to the other faction’s main city and raid it. Sounded awesome till you played it.
The war was so spread out players would almost always go for the easy kill. Hopping map to map taking keeps without sticking around. It was less and less like faction vs faction war then they planned. Sometimes you give players to much freedom you wreck the game.
Matt Frior has learned his lesion buy the looks of this current design. Back to what works best. Focusing the war to one map means more opportunities for faction vs. faction vs. faction battles and that means more fun. You are all bashing ESO for shooting for the gold standard of PvP lol. Evey PvP game that has come out since DAoC has been judged by the DAoC standard. They are trying to give us the best PvP you can have and you are all bashing them for it. Sad and I really hope they stick to their guns and show you how wrong you all are. If they pull this off and the rest of the game is above average it will shine like a jewel.
Originally posted by Maelwydd So if people could explore the world but PvP only aloud in Cyrodil that would be ok?
Then you would take away the depth the quest, story and dungeons could have when they are designed just for your faction. It will drive faction pride like it did in DAoC. Think about a zone thats designed for your faction. Every quest, story and dungeon designed around the lore and the war you are in. Each NPC is affected by this war. From the worried mother that gives you a quest to find her son that did not come back from a battle. To the orphan you help who lost her family in a dark elf attack.
Make the zones generic and for all factions the impact of faction pride is not as great. I get we lose the abilty to see all areas on one char but we gain a lot more in story and quests that will drive faction pride. I know you give up some freedom to go anywhere but what you gain in faction pride and much deeper PVP experence makes it all worth while. Unless you played DAoC to its full you just wont get it. You just have to understand this is the gold standard every PvP game has been judged by since DAoC came out. No one has done it better.
I probably won't get it then because I played TES games not DAOC.
Basically the designers are hoping that the couple of hundred thousand DOAC fans pitted against the couple of million TES fans is going to win through. Mighty big gamble for a system that didn't need to be so restrictive.
But tell me this, if all this is to cultivate faction pride why do the developers justify not having an explorable world to just create alts. Which is it? Do thy want us to fight for one faction and have pride in it or create alts?
You see, I can have faction pride while exploring the entire world. Quests and story will not do that, my choice of character does that. And fation pride will certainly not come from being forced to create alts to explore the whole world.
And how can you claim faction pride is such a big thing when you are FORCED into a faction if you want to play a certain race. I don't want to fight for the DC but I want to make a Breton. So I either play for a faction I don't want to play for or a race I don't want to play. Either way I am a reluctant member of the faction or race.
For me faction pride comes from CHOOSING the faction not being FORCED into choosing.
As for the whole quest and story giving faction pride...well I will never see anyone else unles I go to Cyrodil so what is there to be proud of? Why not have an explorable world and if you really, really want to have faction pride quests, have some near other faction lands and have them involve the other factions by having resuce missings, attack missing, information gathering missions.
Then you would take away the depth the quest, story and dungeons could have when they are designed just for your faction. It will drive faction pride like it did in DAoC.
Just to focus on this part...
What is stopping these fame quests being located around the explorable world? What would be stopping these quests being only available to your faction but elsewhere in the world other then your own lands? Where the quests are located doesn't affect faction pride, what you do on the quest does.
So again exactly why resctrict exploration of the world?
Because all that is left to me is being unable to talk to people outside your faction outside your faction lands and not seeing other factions wandering around. Chat can be restrcited so that isn't an issue or a reason to restrict exploration. And outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP and could hide faction aliegence too.
Comments
I'm not buying the game (unless they make some serious changes) nor did I sign up for beta. You are right, our opinion has little impact on their direction. I just hope we create enough of a commotion that MMO developers will think twice before giving us another generic game.
And I am here to make enough noise they dont. Been waiting for a game just like this for a long time. Great lore and story, huge freedom in classes and rolls, 3 faction PvP, PvE area with no PvP so my wife is happy and we can both agree on this game. If they add player housing they can take my money now. Keep up the good work is all I have to say as of now!!!!!
We'll just have to wait til release (or after beta) to see. I'm happy for you though, I don't want to take away your cheese.
Im not worried anyone can, 6 years in development and I am sure by now quests, story, dungeons and much more are all designed with one faction on one map in mind. Whats being asked here would most likely cost millions of bucks to do and IMO lose more fans. You get my idea why on the posts I made last page.
Mhm.
I think I will take your advice.
Perhaps you should take it yourself.
I'm out of this pointless thread.
If I do a poll about what shade of dark the colour black is, would you insist I put in a choice which said it wasn't dark, and accuse me of bias if I didn't?
Please - I already said I didn't put a control question in because it would be pointless.
I presume you know what that is?
Bias...
Why don't you put a post on telling everyone there isn't any DAoC whatsoever in this game so we can mock your 'astute observation'.
That is what you are saying right - or are you in fact pro DAoC and bias yourself?
As my post below explains - I am taking a position as one would in a debate - and I encourage you to take the opposite position and try to do anything but look foolish trying to defend the indefensible.
I am taking a DEBATING position - I am not trying to prove a hypothesis.
In criticising my methodology - it is you who turned it into a 'college debate'.
To debate reasonably and honestly against my position you would have to take the opposing view - something like this;
"I contend that the TES IP - including its lore, appearance, functionality and gameplay experience is the primary design factor in the locking of factions (including those races so designated) and the 3-way PvP model currently in-game as stated. This has nothing to do with DAoC, and there are no significant similarities to suggest any of the key elements in the success of previous TES games has been negatively impacted by the restrictions put on playfield access and automatic faction allocation on single characters.
You see how from the opposing argument the idea that DAoC, faction lock et al hasn't occurred, seems absolutely ridiculous.
I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.
Are you REALLY saying otherwise?
If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.
Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.
"self evident blah, blah... forced blah blah... erased...blah, blah"
All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.
There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.
It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.
You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
oh look... its another tes / daoc poll by our friendly neighbor Caliburn!
And another one pointless also made only to see people at eachother's necks about TES vs DAoC and how will it be.
Look... design has been decided. Just drop it. Its not going to change and thats great. Listen a TES game with a DAoC layout is the best thing to happen in the mmo industry since 2001.
'blah, blah'
'whining'
Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...
... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.
I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.
Thank you...
Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...
Is it?
OK - I bow to your superior ability to crystal gaze...
Sure its a Lure and Bait...But they are trying to mislead by calling it "ESO"..
I retired retroactively..Haha
Oh you're very welcome. I'm happy to keep it front and center so that we may all get to know the way you think better.
After your personal comments about me, your contribution to the "discussion of the argument" in your post was what exactly?
My harsh criticism of what you post is focused, you're just all over the place... are you going to prove what you asked the previous poster to disprove or not?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've addressed your approach to debate on another thread also.
I see you aren't interested in characterising your own position as I asked you to.
Far easier to criticise mine without stating what your own is so it can be inspected abd critiqued in return huh?
This makes any further discourse with you utterly pointless - so flail away on your own - my ignore list is short, but well chosen.
Some of you are labeling and doubting simply because they're using elements that have been used in previous games. That's not really sound logic. Would you prefer they use nothing thats ever been used in a previous mmo? Seriously? Yes, they are using some game designs that have proven successful in previous games. That does not mean they are going to be implemented, or make TESO just like those previous games. You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how this game will be, regardless of what they've told you.
At this point, you're not going to get Zenimax to go back and re-do major game designs 6 years into development, so you just sound like petulant children. Please, show some maturity, and DO NOT create threads or contribute in whining about a game BEFORE BETA HAS EVEN STARTED. This nonsense has made the mmo community so terrible.
I wasn't trying to prove anything other than you created a flawed/biased poll and were drawing inaccurate conclusions from the results. (which btw I notice you didn't respond to and instead shifted the discussion in another direction)
As to the part I just highlighted all I can say is near as I can tell almost everyone agrees with that and there were quotes posted on these forums yesterday from the lead Developer who not only confirmed he wasn't making a Skyrim successor but rather a standard MMORPG (with strong DAOC RVR elements) using the TES IP
I think most people are actually agreeing with you, so you're really banging the drum for no reason.
The only real thing up for discussion is your opinion that this is a bad thing. For some folks it is, for others not so much, just the way it goes I'm afraid.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.
Why would anyone want to buy his next game?
It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.
I know eh? That's why I think doctors should lose their license if one of their patients dies.
PS... Matt was still working for wassisname at the time... I'd be cautious about an MJ game. Matt? I don't know which chunks of WAR and/or DAoC he was responsible for. MJ had final responsibility for them both.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I had a ton of fun in WAR. If they had fixed specific problems instead of ignoring them, I think it would've been way more successful.
Funny thing you bring out there. Warhammer tried to pull away from the DAoC winning method. Many are asking for PvP to be everywhere not this 4 maps DAoC system but Matt brought war everywhere to Warhammer. Pockets of war no matter where you went with the ability to push the war right to the other faction’s main city and raid it. Sounded awesome till you played it.
The war was so spread out players would almost always go for the easy kill. Hopping map to map taking keeps without sticking around. It was less and less like faction vs faction war then they planned. Sometimes you give players to much freedom you wreck the game.
Matt Frior has learned his lesion buy the looks of this current design. Back to what works best. Focusing the war to one map means more opportunities for faction vs. faction vs. faction battles and that means more fun. You are all bashing ESO for shooting for the gold standard of PvP lol. Evey PvP game that has come out since DAoC has been judged by the DAoC standard. They are trying to give us the best PvP you can have and you are all bashing them for it. Sad and I really hope they stick to their guns and show you how wrong you all are. If they pull this off and the rest of the game is above average it will shine like a jewel.
No thanks
Then you would take away the depth the quest, story and dungeons could have when they are designed just for your faction. It will drive faction pride like it did in DAoC. Think about a zone thats designed for your faction. Every quest, story and dungeon designed around the lore and the war you are in. Each NPC is affected by this war. From the worried mother that gives you a quest to find her son that did not come back from a battle. To the orphan you help who lost her family in a dark elf attack.
Make the zones generic and for all factions the impact of faction pride is not as great. I get we lose the abilty to see all areas on one char but we gain a lot more in story and quests that will drive faction pride. I know you give up some freedom to go anywhere but what you gain in faction pride and much deeper PVP experence makes it all worth while. Unless you played DAoC to its full you just wont get it. You just have to understand this is the gold standard every PvP game has been judged by since DAoC came out. No one has done it better.
I probably won't get it then because I played TES games not DAOC.
Basically the designers are hoping that the couple of hundred thousand DOAC fans pitted against the couple of million TES fans is going to win through. Mighty big gamble for a system that didn't need to be so restrictive.
But tell me this, if all this is to cultivate faction pride why do the developers justify not having an explorable world to just create alts. Which is it? Do thy want us to fight for one faction and have pride in it or create alts?
You see, I can have faction pride while exploring the entire world. Quests and story will not do that, my choice of character does that. And fation pride will certainly not come from being forced to create alts to explore the whole world.
And how can you claim faction pride is such a big thing when you are FORCED into a faction if you want to play a certain race. I don't want to fight for the DC but I want to make a Breton. So I either play for a faction I don't want to play for or a race I don't want to play. Either way I am a reluctant member of the faction or race.
For me faction pride comes from CHOOSING the faction not being FORCED into choosing.
As for the whole quest and story giving faction pride...well I will never see anyone else unles I go to Cyrodil so what is there to be proud of? Why not have an explorable world and if you really, really want to have faction pride quests, have some near other faction lands and have them involve the other factions by having resuce missings, attack missing, information gathering missions.
Just to focus on this part...
What is stopping these fame quests being located around the explorable world? What would be stopping these quests being only available to your faction but elsewhere in the world other then your own lands? Where the quests are located doesn't affect faction pride, what you do on the quest does.
So again exactly why resctrict exploration of the world?
Because all that is left to me is being unable to talk to people outside your faction outside your faction lands and not seeing other factions wandering around. Chat can be restrcited so that isn't an issue or a reason to restrict exploration. And outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP and could hide faction aliegence too.
So what is left?