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So excluding Crafting: What Do PvEers Want???

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  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    One thing I DONT want is instanced dungeons. We've got plenty of those and to be frank, I'm sick of them.
  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Fun.  That's all I want, a game that is fun to play.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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  • David_LopanDavid_Lopan Madison, WIPosts: 808Member Uncommon

    - Dynamic Eco systems (no set spawn triggers, animals/monsters that hunt, graze, migrate, ambush, sleep, etc.)

     - Random events (no set triggers, completely random encounters with chances of rare mobs, treasure, puzzles, etc.)

    - All craft able items be on par with found items (yes, a super dupper sword can be found and crafted albeit it harder to craft,       items lose quality as they are used, but can be repaired by pc's, not npc's)

     - Dynamic dungeons (Dungeons runs are never the same once re-run, this includes placement and types of mobs, bosses, mini bosses, bosses, loot, crafting materials, pathways, mazes, everything changes, can’t use Google)

    - Truly Dynamic large scale events such as enemy raids, sieges, migrating herds smash through villages, mobs come out of the sewers in town, etc.

    - Degradation of housing, mounts, ships, etc. (have to be maintained by pc's, this doesn’t have to be very hardcore though)

    - Exploration of new territories, generated lands once outside of borders that become concrete after so many people, npcs visit them

    Those are a few

  • DeVoDeVoDeVoDeVo Outhere, NCPosts: 94Member Uncommon

    I would want a really huge friggin seamless world to quest and explore (similar to Vanguard) with some cities underwater and in the air, changing environments, night and day.

     

    Would like dungeons all over the place that can be explored solo or group.  Some simple, some complicated.  Some that you may have to spend days inside to finish.  The dungeons can be instanced to support this but the overall world should be huge, seamless.

     

    Hundreds of interesting, branching quests that you don’t have to grind.

     

    Extensive character creation so everyone doesn’t look the same.

     

    Would like quite a few monsters to be challenging but not impossible.  The type of mob that will make you change up your trusty spell combo to defeat it.

     

    Would like slow leveling.  I don’t like rushing to the end.  The fun is in the journey.

     

    Content at highest levels doesn’t exclude casual or time limited players.

     

    Crafting, fishing, a wide variety of mounts.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    I want to tend the rabbits and live off the fat of the land.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • AcidonAcidon Salem, ORPosts: 797Member
    Originally posted by Cherise

    For my personal tastes,

    - A large world I can get lost in, that isn't packed with mobs every few feet.  Beautiful, detailed places with no mobs and no reason to go there, that you discover.

    - Open dungeons to explore that don't involve raid mechanics and studying before entering.

    - Features that create positive interactions with other players, such as buffing/curing at gathering locations (pubs/med centers), music systems, housing.

    - Classes that are actually fun and don't later have the fun stripped from them because they are unbalanced in pvp.  And feeling stronger as I level, rather than weaker despite not having raid gear.

    - Slower leveling pace with many zones and options for leveling.

    What makes pve dull for me is having nothing but combat, reaching max level quickly, and then being offered daily quests, repeatable dungeons requiring a perfect group setup, and raids.  I look for games with other things to do, interactions with other players that doesn't involve pick up groups,  and a class that's actually fun to play (which I haven't found in a long while).

     

    Perhaps this was already mentioned, but you pretty much just described Vanguard.

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  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    I liked those random invasions in Rift. Pretty fun.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cheboygan
    a huge world to explore - and incentive rewards to do so

     This pretty much nails it...A world full of risk and reward and consequences for our actions.....What alot of the newer players don't realize is just how much fun MMOs were before questing became the main goal......When there was no hand holding, no symbols over NPCs heads, and no end game the genre was really much different......Its too bad so much of the RPG has gone out of the genre.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cheboygan
    a huge world to explore - and incentive rewards to do so

    Pretty much this though I don't really need incentives, depending upon what those are considered to be. As long as the world is large and I can be surprised at discoveries then I'm happy. Once I know all the places I have no problem going back and doing some dungeon delving or exploring interesting areas just to fight mobs and perhaps mini bosses.

    I can' tsay I'm a "pve'er as I love pvp but I have no problem playing all pve games.

    edit: what theocritus say holds true. I want some risk. I want to wander in an area and realize it's dangerous. or wander through an area and know that I iwll have to play at my best or else I will die.

  • SagornSagorn Orlando, FLPosts: 18Member

    As someone previously mentioned, the AA system in EQ was excellent, and I am surprised that I can't think of any MMO since that has any sort of character progression beyond a gear grind at max level. I played my own 6-man group in EQ pretty much 8-10 hours a day for a good several months and I didn't come close to maxing out my AA on any of the characters in my group.

    I would also like to see scalable dungeons for players who want to solo, or duo (or 3 or 4 etc.) if they don't want to group with strangers in a dungeon finder with a set group of people.

    I think most PvE'ers are interested in building something. A stronger character, a homestead, crafted items, etc. Just give me SOMETHING to do at max level other than grinding dailies, dungeons and raids for gear, as this is the ONLY way to make your character "better" or "stronger" at max level. I'd rather farm repeatable quests all day long if I felt it was actually progressing my character in a more permanent way that would carry over into new expansions as opposed to a gear grind where my gear is replaced within 10 mins of doing the first few quests of the new expansion.

     

    --Sagorn

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Some are:
    • Things to discover
    • Things to fight
    • Things to collect
    • Things to build
    • Things to grow
    • Things that affect the game environment
    • Projects to collaborate on

    Pretty much the same things that PvPers want but with significantly less teabagging and profanity.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Pynda

    - To not be labeled a "PvE'er" just because that may be one activity (of many) which I enjoy doing in MMORPGs.

    What game exactly is the op lowballing here?

    More to the ops question: variety. Veteran-game, multiple-expansion levels of variety.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • OldbugssOldbugss Minneapolis, MNPosts: 22Member Uncommon

    Well, my first would be crafting. However, that has been excluded as it seemingly was anticipated and filtered out in the 

    initial question.

     

    With that being said, I would like a huge world open to exploration and exploitations. It's fun to find things, discover and

    use the world(s) to your advantage.

    Boredom with PVE  to me would be something along the lines of  killing a lot of NPCs and beasts with no real rewards

    or  results.  I prefer PVE but would like a system that includes us in some sort of overall battle or  cause to fight for factionally.

    One thing I know for sure is, what I think isn't nearly what others do. Not that I have ever expected that.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by dave6660
    I want to tend the rabbits and live off the fat of the land.

    Let's go back in the Mansion now, Mr. Hefner.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Acidon
    Originally posted by Cherise

    For my personal tastes,

    - A large world I can get lost in, that isn't packed with mobs every few feet.  Beautiful, detailed places with no mobs and no reason to go there, that you discover.

    - Open dungeons to explore that don't involve raid mechanics and studying before entering.

    - Features that create positive interactions with other players, such as buffing/curing at gathering locations (pubs/med centers), music systems, housing.

    - Classes that are actually fun and don't later have the fun stripped from them because they are unbalanced in pvp.  And feeling stronger as I level, rather than weaker despite not having raid gear.

    - Slower leveling pace with many zones and options for leveling.

    What makes pve dull for me is having nothing but combat, reaching max level quickly, and then being offered daily quests, repeatable dungeons requiring a perfect group setup, and raids.  I look for games with other things to do, interactions with other players that doesn't involve pick up groups,  and a class that's actually fun to play (which I haven't found in a long while).

     

    Perhaps this was already mentioned, but you pretty much just described Vanguard.

    This is pretty much true, but VG has game engine and server issues that can make it unfun at times.

    Also, if you are stuck playing on the European server like I am because the ping on the American server is too high, it is a very lonely experience. So far I have not been able to make many groups because there aren't enough players rather than people only want to solo. In general, people are pretty sociable and nice in VG.

    I actually hope more players try out VG and decide to roll on the European server. Despite some of its game engine flaws and server hiccups, it is one of the funnest games on the market.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Sagorn

    As someone previously mentioned, the AA system in EQ was excellent, and I am surprised that I can't think of any MMO since that has any sort of character progression beyond a gear grind at max level. I played my own 6-man group in EQ pretty much 8-10 hours a day for a good several months and I didn't come close to maxing out my AA on any of the characters in my group.

    I would also like to see scalable dungeons for players who want to solo, or duo (or 3 or 4 etc.) if they don't want to group with strangers in a dungeon finder with a set group of people.

    I think most PvE'ers are interested in building something. A stronger character, a homestead, crafted items, etc. Just give me SOMETHING to do at max level other than grinding dailies, dungeons and raids for gear, as this is the ONLY way to make your character "better" or "stronger" at max level. I'd rather farm repeatable quests all day long if I felt it was actually progressing my character in a more permanent way that would carry over into new expansions as opposed to a gear grind where my gear is replaced within 10 mins of doing the first few quests of the new expansion.

     

    --Sagorn

    I think dungeons should remain large and open to many, but I do like the idea of scaled and instanced tasks or missions a bit like they had in DAoC and AO.

    I liked DAoC's dungeons a lot. They were really large and required max level to hit some of the deeper areas. EQ2 has a similar idea with its dungeon areas. You can also hit max level in these games and continue to develope your character. It probably takes years to do all of the hardcoded developer content in EQ2 on one character, and now with the dungeon maker tool, players can add content continuously. I think that is great !

    So huge dungeons that require time and skill to explore, high level areas that are huge and take time to explore either solo or in groups, lots of character customisation options, gear that wears out so that crafters are always viable, etc.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon

    a *non-linear* themepark

    about six morrowinds worth (in terms of geographic scale combined with lore depth) bolted together with dozens of factions and locations and a dozen or more starting locations providing an almost limitless number of possible paths though the game depending on the choices you make.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,144Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    What do the PvE community want in terms of gameplay from a MMO, that doesn't include Crafting?

    Because over the months I have seen countless complaining about the bordom of PvE in MMOs  over the years.

    so what's the solution to improving PvE. What is fun about it? 

    What makes PvE dull to you?

    No boredom in MY games, guess for this reason I play them. :-) Swtor, Wow, Gw2, ... But enjoyed once a lot AOC, Rift, War, CO, ... and never felt bored.

    What I love is good questing, awesome areas, great combat, physics, VOICED acting, ...

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cherise

    For my personal tastes,

    - A large world I can get lost in, that isn't packed with mobs every few feet.  Beautiful, detailed places with no mobs and no reason to go there, that you discover.

    - Open dungeons to explore that don't involve raid mechanics and studying before entering.

    - Features that create positive interactions with other players, such as buffing/curing at gathering locations (pubs/med centers), music systems, housing.

    - Classes that are actually fun and don't later have the fun stripped from them because they are unbalanced in pvp.  And feeling stronger as I level, rather than weaker despite not having raid gear.

    - Slower leveling pace with many zones and options for leveling.

    What makes pve dull for me is having nothing but combat, reaching max level quickly, and then being offered daily quests, repeatable dungeons requiring a perfect group setup, and raids.  I look for games with other things to do, interactions with other players that doesn't involve pick up groups,  and a class that's actually fun to play (which I haven't found in a long while).

    Why are you not playing Vanguard it's everything you are asking for and more, are you sure you want what you are asking for?

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  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member

    - A big explorable world. Where you discover things for yourself. A map that starts blank but populates when you find stuff and that you can add your own notes to it.

    - The world is Alive. Things are not there simply to make a game. Animals roam, hunt each other, run when scared, attack me when aggresive. The world needs to feel just like a major character.

    - Lots to do not just combat. Fishing, crafts, gathering, sightseeing, building, destroying, random events.

    - No defined 'end game'. I love games that give you a world and say 'here you go, have fun' but don't define what fun is but let you discover it because of the variety available.

    - Rares. I would love a system where PvE opponents can gain in power so tha eventually a leader or elite mob can emerge and go on a rampage or attack a friendly village or build a fortress.

    - Viable crafting. having crafting is not enough. I want crafting that requires dedication to get anywhere with it and when you get there it has to be worth it. The most frustrating thing for me when crafting is that, you never get to a point when what you are crafting actually means something or is better then stuff you can find. The perfect crafting experience would be where there are just raw materials in the world and items only get introduced to the world by players.

    - Raiding. I don't like the raids where you for 40 people to repeatedly fight a series of fights in the hopes of gaining an item that improves you AC by 0.0001%. A raid to me is when some savage tribe of headhunters storms the village, forcing everyone to flee to the castle and you have to defend it or where you do the invading and 'raid' an enemy or opponent.

    Probably more I could add but that is a good start.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,772Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    What do the PvE community want in terms of gameplay from a MMO, that doesn't include Crafting?

    Because over the months I have seen countless complaining about the bordom of PvE in MMOs  over the years.

    so what's the solution to improving PvE. What is fun about it? 

    What makes PvE dull to you?

    meaningful quests. Impvoved and dynamic questing system, not a quest hub chain grind from A to B until the end. Inteligent monsters and enemies. Risky but rewarding world exploration. Zero hand holding. Living PvE world, non static environments and npcs. Player interaction with the environment (can i use a fire spell and burn down a hut and face consequences? can you use a water spell and put off the fire?) interactive and living world since day one. No ¨end game is where its at¨ nonsense. Dont focus on the level proces, focus on the life of the player within the game world and its Lore. And do not turn a PvE experience into a dungeon grind.

    What makes PvE dull to me? the PvE that we currently have in every mmo. GW2 tried to hide it and i love what they did, but someone has to take that idea and make it 1000 times better  and completely remove the generic progression we have. im waiting for that day to come.

     

    Back to questing.... if i want to collect 10 bear asses, its because i want to craft something with it and find out what can i do with it, and not because a dumb npc wants them or its written in some recipe. Let me gather materials and craft on my own to see what can i discover.

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  • CheriseCherise Cincinnati, OHPosts: 232Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Cherise

    For my personal tastes,

    - A large world I can get lost in, that isn't packed with mobs every few feet.  Beautiful, detailed places with no mobs and no reason to go there, that you discover.

    - Open dungeons to explore that don't involve raid mechanics and studying before entering.

    - Features that create positive interactions with other players, such as buffing/curing at gathering locations (pubs/med centers), music systems, housing.

    - Classes that are actually fun and don't later have the fun stripped from them because they are unbalanced in pvp.  And feeling stronger as I level, rather than weaker despite not having raid gear.

    - Slower leveling pace with many zones and options for leveling.

    What makes pve dull for me is having nothing but combat, reaching max level quickly, and then being offered daily quests, repeatable dungeons requiring a perfect group setup, and raids.  I look for games with other things to do, interactions with other players that doesn't involve pick up groups,  and a class that's actually fun to play (which I haven't found in a long while).

    Why are you not playing Vanguard it's everything you are asking for and more, are you sure you want what you are asking for?

    The features I listed above, I expect to be able to solo or duo. I need things that I can do on my own or with my husband.  I've tried to like Vanguard  because I really wanted to like this game, and have gone back to make further attempts.  I didn't feel there were many zone options at all when I hit the 20's.  I struggled to find mobs I could take on solo and was told I needed to get the armor from some quest line (I forget what it's called) killing mobs in a dungeon.  My husband and I tried to do it, but obviously it was meant for a group.   I want to explore a dungeon on my own just to see neat places.  If there's not stuff for us to duo comfortably, then we move on.  It's definitely a group-oriented game and I guess I should have clarified my aversion to that.  And without the means to get gear, I was getting weaker as I leveled.

    It has housing, but it was out of my reach.  I never could afford it and didn't like how inaccessible it is.

    Didn't see any fun features that created interactions with players.  No music system, no accessible housing, no pubs or med centers.   I didn't consider forced grouping a positive interaction (for me) so didn't include it in the list.

    The one thing did like, though, were the classes.  They were unique and not what you typically see.  And you don't have a ridiculous number of skills on the bar, so you can enjoy the surroundings a bit more.

    Probably the closest thing to what I listed (from my perspective) would be a combination of SWG and DAOC's co-op server pve.  SWG had the social features.  DAOC had a huge variety of  incredibly fun classes,  tons of dungeons and leveling options (EQ1 had awesome huge dungeons as well) most all that could be done solo or duo, a large seamless world to roam.  And I loved housing in both these games as you could set up a shop and sell your wares out of them.

  • xeraxxerax LondonPosts: 61Member Uncommon

    Also of good things mention by previous posters i just wanted to eco my support for a few:

    A big world to explore with stuff to find, i would love to see a fantasy MMO with a world as big as salem but with some character, pure random generation in some areas of wilderness but also some designed cities/ towns areas, different terrians regions: Plains, great forests, stepps, deserts, tundra perhaps a huge cavanous equalvant of the underdark.

    An enviroment you can mould to some extent and settle/ build.

    Interesting/sginificant abilities across a broad range of specialised character classes.

    If the game to have PVP then different rules/systems/abilties for PVP so PVE never has to be nerfed in the name of PVP balance.

    Largish groups 6 is a good number but 5 7 , 8  or 10 would also work

    A wide variety of content with lots of development opportunities, AA, items, personal sklill etc within a given level range. Sure this makes it really difficult to balance but it can make for a great in depth PVE game.

    Open dungeons with instanced rooms to avoid camping ques for  some bosses

    Encourage co-operation by hard game play but have a few options for solers to have something to do

     

     

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    What do the PvE community want in terms of gameplay from a MMO, that doesn't include Crafting?

    Because over the months I have seen countless complaining about the bordom of PvE in MMOs  over the years.

    so what's the solution to improving PvE. What is fun about it? 

    What makes PvE dull to you?

     

    You can't just discount it.  

     

    It's pretty easy and I'm pretty sure you know the answer.  Anyone who is anyone on any forum has had countless conversations about the non-PVP aspects of MMO's.  Crafting is one of them, but crafting alone doesn't do it.  It's a player driven economy that empowers players to advance solely in crafting.  Ultima Online did it best, where they forced you to allocate a certain amount of points towards crafting professions, you shared these points with your combat roles as well.  This meant that you can't be the best fighter or mage in the game while being a world renown blacksmith.  It forced adventurers to shop for some of the best items that the game had to offer instead of just being able to make it themselves.  It created a social community within the game, something that has been all but destroyed by all powerful players and auction houses.  It's items that adventurers can bring from their dungeon crawls to crafters, because only powerful crafters can make use of that item.  Todays games completely alienate the crafter by allowing everyone to do everything.

     

    Then there's your large portion of players, which includes myself, that want to play in a world sim instead of simply a dungeon treadmill.  Those players want large worlds to explore and to actually be able to live in.  Where have houses gone?  Why can Ultima Online have a horrible housing system in a non-instanced world, but with all of the technilogical advancements in the past fifteen years, we can't have one in a MMO today?  It's absolutely ridiculous.  Housing gives players a sense of ownership and pride.  It improves nearly every crafting profession that you can think of.  It creates social points of interest and gives the player a sense of meaning.  In games like WoW, where do you live?  Do you go POOF when you log off?  Your character doesn't dwell somewhere?  Even Elder Scrolls, a game known for housing, is refusing it's players a housing system in the online adaptation.  It's pure laziness, developers don't believe we care about housing and that all anyone ever wants to do is go 'PEW PEW PEW'.  

     

    What you get in a full world sim is being able to sail the seas as well.  Usually today, games either are based around ships or have none in them.  Why?  Is it too hard to implement it?  I doubt it.  It adds new professions to the game, new spells even.  It add underwater dungeons and unique quests that we haven't seen since DAoC and before that.  You don't just magically teleport to the other side, you actually have to traverse the world that the developers painstakingly created.  It adds ship battles, big fishing expeditions, sea monster fights, etc.  

     

    I think most developers have made great strides in the questing systems and dungeon systems.  We've gone from static quests, to dynamic quests, to PQ's, to server events, to even rifts.  Now I'm interested to see what TESO does with hubs.  I've seen FFA dungeons, to instanced, to a mix between both, adding difficulties, opening up new areas to have all new boss encounters that actually make the player think.  We've even startedt to see hidden areas and puzzles come back to the dungeon crawl.  There has been great advancement in achievements and options given to the gatherer and adventuter.  But they only come in forms of non-monotary gain.  

     

    I'm kind of tired of typing right now, but I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.  There are so many things that the players have been screaming for, that no legitimate developer will even touch.  Some people find it great that Trion has attached itself to ArchAge.  I personally think it's a travesty in a way.  It also means that such a great company will not be making a sandbox MMO for quite a long time because it will be competing with itself for a playerbase.  Thus, putting these types of features in a game in the hands of a small team of devs.  Which clearly hasn't worked out well so far.

     

    Sometimes I do wish I could go back fifteen years when UO was launched.  The only similar MMO is Darkfall and it's run by a bunch of bumbling idiots.

     

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Fabdiculous to see we still haven't moved passed the stuff we were discussing a year ago when I used to be active.

    I'll keep my list concise:

    Terrain alteration

    Building construction

    Spell design

    Persistant and non-respawning monster organizations

    Magic base words gained from exploring

    Localized travel and resource management

    Pure player economy

    Skill systems for non-combat being just as extensive

    Exploring skills like mountain climbing and bridge building

    Flight

    Creature taming and breeding

    Land control for resources in varying ways

    Gameworld that continues to evolve even if I'm offline

     

    Had to try hard to not bring up closely crafting related stuff.

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