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[Column] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: Crafting and the Economy

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,632MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Crafting seems to be one of the big topics as the shift in MMOs goes from developer created content to player created. In today's Eorzea Reborn, we take a look at the way that crafting has the potential to influence the Final Fantasy: A Realm Reborn economy. Read on and then craft a response in the comments.

So, recently we seem to have had an explosion of discussion regarding crafting and the economy.  Mark Jacobs really kicked it off in his recent series of Camelot Unchained principles, arguing “while this feature is quite popular... it has come at the cost of decreasing socialization between players and... increased sense of disconnection with the game as a world.”  He has promised us that Camelot Unchained will be a player economy driven game where crafting, not PVE adventuring, will determine the gear of the day.

Read more of Ryahl Smith's Eorzea Reborn: Crafting and the Economy.

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Comments

  • nbtscannbtscan Phoenix, AZPosts: 780Member Uncommon

    Nice article Ryahl.  Just wanted to throw a few points in that weren't touched on for ARR.

     

    - ARR will feature a system like WoW's "Bind on Equip", except with ARR, gear isn't bound to your character until you perform an action (fighting, crafting, gathering) in it.  This is going to eliminate the handing down of gear between friends after it's been used and will stimulate the crafting side of things.  This won't impact communities where crafters are readily accessible, but for those who haven't joined a linkshell or free company where there are varying crafters available they'll be using the markets much more often.

     

    - My second point sort of touches on the first.  With the ability to sell used equipment going out of the window, how often are people going to take advantage of user based repairs?  I guess the main factors will be how expensive the NPC based repairs will be, and how immediate the need to get your gear repaired is.  A lot of times I had to leave my character online overnight at the repair NPC to get some of my higher level gear repaired, just because at that time there weren't many higher level crafters.

     

    - The markets across each city-state will be linked in ARR, so the necessity for everyone to cram themselves in Ul'dah should hopefully vanish.  This coupled with the Duty Finder system (same thing WoW uses to form dungeon/raid groups) and people can pick whichever city they want to hang out in.  Having a unified market will heighten competition, but it will also make goods much more accessible.

     

    As far as equipment itself goes, in 1.0 most of the Darklight gear was the hands down best gear available.  Most of this was only obtainable by completing dungeons within a time period only a fraction of players could accomplish due to the skill level required.  If you didn't have Darklight, you had multi-melded crafted gear.  I'm sure there will still be a demand for this multi-meld gear since there will always be a skill ceiling to what people can accomplish in higher end content.

     

    That's all I have to contribute.  Nice article as always.  :)

     
  • BethelsBoyBethelsBoy South Bend, INPosts: 216Member Uncommon
    wish i would have been invited to the beta :(

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  • Aela_DelphiAela_Delphi Friendswood, TXPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by BethelsBoy
    wish i would have been invited to the beta :(

    Don't stress too much.  As it stands, SE has made it sound like only the Veteran accounts and Alpha testers have been given access (via previous tweets).  I suspect as it moves into later phases many more of the other players will get access.

    Anari Delphi -- Co-owner and author of EorzeaReborn.com
    Check out Ry's MMORPG.com FFXIV Column -- EorzeaReborn
    Follow Ry and I on Twitter: @EorzeaReborn

  • ShubawkssShubawkss Canton, GAPosts: 55Member
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.
  • Vector_ArrowVector_Arrow Los Angeles, CAPosts: 18Member
    Originally posted by Aela_Delphi
    Originally posted by BethelsBoy
    wish i would have been invited to the beta :(

    Don't stress too much.  As it stands, SE has made it sound like only the Veteran accounts and Alpha testers have been given access (via previous tweets).  I suspect as it moves into later phases many more of the other players will get access.

    Nope. A lot of people who weren't in Alpha or Legacy got invited. It's all random.

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Crafting was excellent in the game before RR, I expect it to be no different.
  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.

    And what proof is there that it was not that great?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waldoe
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.

    And what proof is there that it was not that great?

    You realize he's talking about the testing schedule and not the game, right?

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.

     

    The time frame and what is specifically being tested at any given time is also protected by the NDA (as said by Yoshi-P).  This is not a confirmation of what is posted, but a reminder to everyone to be careful of what they write and respond to.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • ShubawkssShubawkss Canton, GAPosts: 55Member
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.

     

    The time frame and what is specifically being tested at any given time is also protected by the NDA (as said by Yoshi-P).  This is not a confirmation of what is posted, but a reminder to everyone to be careful of what they write and respond to.

     

    Oops. :>

  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Waldoe
    Originally posted by Shubawkss
    Plus the testing schedule so far (first test) was not that great at all. They are only allowing testing in phases for 1-2 days at a time.

    And what proof is there that it was not that great?

    You realize he's talking about the testing schedule and not the game, right?

    You realize that game AND scehdule are off limits right?

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    I think that AH is the “most comfortable” way to buy/sell for a player, but doesn’t contribute much to the community part of the game. I would personally go with a system of AH’like “boards” which would instead of “Buy” button would have “Talk” (if seller is online) or “Mail” button and you would have to arrange sale itself in person.
  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon

    I think the critical thing about crafting is you have three sets of players

    1) Players who just want to buy and sell loot efficiently

    2) Players who specifically like crafting

    3) Players who specifically like trading

    Obviously there's overlap but thinking of the distinct categories helps imo.

     

    As the first group is by far largest the easiest option is to more or less ignore crafting however that throws away the opportunity to make the game stickier for c. 20%(?) of the potential player base.

     

    (The most realistic option would be to create a system where the traders were the interface between the players and crafters. I'm sure we could all guess how that would end but it would be realistic and could be relatively simple.)

     

    The second critical point is that crafters like crafting. They don't need positive rewards to craft other than that what they craft has to have some minimum level of use or worth or it starts to feel silly. What people who like crafting need is the absence of negative reinforcement e.g. wolves dropping gear better than can be made out of their pelts.

     

    (Trader-crafters do need positive monetary rewards because for them the money is how they measure their skill as a trader.)

     

    One immediate conflict with this is in fantasy games the best gear has to come from the big bosses. It's silly otherwise. However how does that tie into crafting having a minimum usefulness? One way to get round this is to make some of the best gear crafted at the very top level of crafting skill but what about all the time before then? Consumables is one way for a lot of crafting skills but this is less useful when it comes to weapons and armor crafting. I think buffs and repairs are the obvious way to go for those skills.

     

    For example if every time a player is hit there's a small chance of an item breaking - to save having to keep a record of damage - then the tailor/leatherworker/blacksmith players have a critical use in the long period between when they are producing good lowbie gear and the stage where they are master crafters producing high-end gear. You might not need to take a blacksmith on a big raid but it would help.

     

    The alternative would be a buff system where tailors can put a temporary buff on cloth, leatherworkers on leather etc.

     

    I prefer the repair option personally as it could lead to interesting emergent play.

     

    (NPC repairers could do the same thing for money back in town so crafters could stand there and undercut the NPC prices or wander around looking for customers in levelling spots.)

     

     
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon
    AH was a horrible introduction to mmorpg's. Everyone crammed around 1 npc and killed the business aspect along with social interaction.
  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onomas
    AH was a horrible introduction to mmorpg's. Everyone crammed around 1 npc and killed the business aspect along with social interaction.

    i think that regional AH and more continental or global AH must be looked at distinctly.  regional and local "AH" work in eve and POTBS for instance.  it allows for a little more ease of the buying and selling proccess while still leaving opportunities out there for player freight runners etc as well as opportunities for the players who get a kick out of playing the buy low sell high game.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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  • volttvoltt richmondhill, ONPosts: 269Member
    *cough cough open beta phase 4 cough cough
  • SabbathSMCSabbathSMC Katy, TXPosts: 226Member

    I'm old school and really like the way UO handled it with player vendor in a house or outside the house in most cases. People would roam and shop vendor to vendor. While i wa working in my shop and they were checking my vendor out, they would come in and ask for specific items for me to craft for them. 

    The AH really ruined it, and people were always selling it lower and lower where it got to the point its not worth crafting anymore.

    I really hate the AH. Also several games i have played allow you to set your character up as a vendor while your off line. well if your playing alot you dont want to tie your character up with a shop so you miss sells. I dont agree with that method either.

    I still think having a npc vendor sell items for you at your own property is the best way.

    played M59,UO,lineage,EQ,Daoc,Entropia,SWG,Horizons,Lineage2.EQ2,Vangaurd,Irth online, DarkFall,Star Trek
    and many others that did not make the cut or i just plain forgetting about.

  • Br3akingDawnBr3akingDawn a City, CAPosts: 1,357Member Uncommon
    Simply awesome. They are not gonna dump even more money on this game if the revised product has any chance of failing like the first one. I am so ready for ARR. Give it to me baby.

    image

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member

    I have not played FF XIV and not really planning to play it, but I love crafting so I thought I would comment here. I think that by far the best crafting system was pre-CU SWG's. It had so many things going for it. It was strategic, it required planning, it required knowing the player community, it was interdependant but not to the point of complete frustration, and it was the only way to get the best gear in the game.

    I know it has been touched on a lot before, so I won't get into it here. I just really, really, really wish someone would get inspired from SWG's system, innovate it and put it in their game. It can be done in a fantasy context too.

    Why oh why won't any dev get a clue and build up and improve on what SWG did ? Us players have been asking for it for ages.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Epic1oots
    Simply awesome. They are not gonna dump even more money on this game if the revised product has any chance of failing like the first one. I am so ready for ARR. Give it to me baby.

     

    heh, same.

    I am taking a MMO break for now, cleansing my pallet. Really looking forward to getting stuck in :)

  • RalstlinRalstlin Las PalmasPosts: 234Member

    Crafting in alpha was better than 1.0 

     

    is so.. fast! not so many waits to continue crafting ;)

  • miconamicona montreal, QCPosts: 661Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Originally posted by Onomas
    AH was a horrible introduction to mmorpg's. Everyone crammed around 1 npc and killed the business aspect along with social interaction.

    i think that regional AH and more continental or global AH must be looked at distinctly.  regional and local "AH" work in eve and POTBS for instance.  it allows for a little more ease of the buying and selling proccess while still leaving opportunities out there for player freight runners etc as well as opportunities for the players who get a kick out of playing the buy low sell high game.

        Eveonline  still has the best market system in a mmo to this day .

     
  • AkaisAkais Memphis, TNPosts: 274Member Common
    Originally posted by Onomas
    AH was a horrible introduction to mmorpg's. Everyone crammed around 1 npc and killed the business aspect along with social interaction.

    Speaking from the standpoint of one who has spent days worth of hours offering goods and services in MMO's and  even more shopping for the same from others, I can't entirely agree with you.

    It's an excellent idea that was poorly implemented, imo.

    The AH Model has created rampant inflation in games. This has lead to a host of unpleasant practices that MMO's would have been better served without. But it resolved the days long waits to find needed goods and services as well.

    I like the system in GW2: For items you need RIGHT NOW or could get no other way you pay the premium to get it . Or alternately, if you can be patient, you will see your buy order filled at a moderate price instead.

    What would help GW2 most would be a Looking for Crafter function that would allow crafters the opportunity to craft  for others directly for commision.

    Having both would encourage a well rounded community.

     

  • RinnaRinna Las Vegas, NVPosts: 388Member
    I am thrilled that so many game developers actually CARE about crafting systems and the market again. Took long enough! :)
    For the record, I think GuildWars2 has the worst economy for crafters (cross server + not enough craftable, higher demand items completely killed it) and the worst AH search functions I've ever seen in any game.

    No bitchers.

  • SagornSagorn Orlando, FLPosts: 19Member Common
    Originally posted by micona
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Originally posted by Onomas
    AH was a horrible introduction to mmorpg's. Everyone crammed around 1 npc and killed the business aspect along with social interaction.

    i think that regional AH and more continental or global AH must be looked at distinctly.  regional and local "AH" work in eve and POTBS for instance.  it allows for a little more ease of the buying and selling proccess while still leaving opportunities out there for player freight runners etc as well as opportunities for the players who get a kick out of playing the buy low sell high game.

        Eveonline  still has the best market system in a mmo to this day .

     

    As much as I don't like EVE, the market system is very good, and a lot of other MMO's could learn from it.

     

    --Sagorn

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