The other side of the coin is easily understandable. People who want to play for free because they don't have the means to pay monthly, people who don't feel the product is worthy of a sub yet for some reason still want to play it anyway, or people are just too cheap and want to get as much for free as possible. There are plenty of other options for you out there, so leave the few remaining games that are P2P for the actual people who prefer P2P.
The value of money and the value of a game varies from one person to the next. Decide where you stand, make a decision to bite the bullet or not, and move on.
There's really nothing else that needs to be said about it.
Sadly they wont understand this .. They will say ''why not f2p, it wont hurt your game.'' bla bla bla ..
They dont understand demanding game to become F2P is something like going to gym asking for free acess to the gym, but only for restricted equipment or time. THIS IS NOT how world works.
They just have to understand that its only THEIR DECISION. Everyone must make his own decision .. so you decided to have family, kid, work? Good for you, stop begging for free acess to the game. There are hundered of thousands of players with families, work and kids who are willing to pay sub, without any problem. You are not one of them? Its your decision, and if its not your decision, then blame your parents or wife
The other side of the coin is easily understandable. People who want to play for free because they don't have the means to pay monthly, people who don't feel the product is worthy of a sub yet for some reason still want to play it anyway, or people are just too cheap and want to get as much for free as possible. There are plenty of other options for you out there, so leave the few remaining games that are P2P for the actual people who prefer P2P.
The value of money and the value of a game varies from one person to the next. Decide where you stand, make a decision to bite the bullet or not, and move on.
There's really nothing else that needs to be said about it.
Sadly they wont understand this .. They will say ''why not f2p, it wont hurt your game.'' bla bla bla ..
They dont understand demanding game to become F2P is something like going to gym asking for free acess to the gym, but only for restricted equipment or time. THIS IS NOT how world works.
They just have to understand that its only THEIR DECISION. Everyone must make his own decision .. so you decided to have family, kid, work? Good for you, stop begging for free acess to the game. Because there are hundered of thousands of players with families, work and kids who are willing to pay sub, without any problem. You are not one of them? TOO BAD
People with this mentality honestly sicken me sometimes... F2P > P2P, end of story, because if you want to continue subbing you can, hell a decently converted P2P game will give you the same sub you always had, oh what cause now they spend maybe a month throwing together the items and scripting required to get F2P working you're gonna moan that "THIS IS NOT HOW THE WORLD WORKS?" so? if your world works in such a crappy fashion change it, plenty of good games offer you choice and you stand there and proclaim superiority because you have a better job than someone? news flash: luck of the draw don't make you any better than anyone else, if one person enjoys games and can afford paying a monthly sub while another one enjoys them just as much but can't, the right, the ethically good thing to do is to give the right of way to the person who can't afford it.
A good company will make good F2P games or good P2P games, in either case there's no strife as the P2P game will be alive and kicking keeping its head above the water, the good F2P game will flourish.
A crap company will make games destined to all be F2P and if you're lucky some will have a decent system, if not they'll be SWTOR level of bad.
You make it sound like game developers should automatically implement a form of F2P just because there are people out there that can't or won't abide by the P2P system.
Its 15 dollars a month... Jesus christ. Spend less time argueing about it on forums and more time working. Final Fantasy has always been pay to play. Thats the way it is, and those of us who play it prefer it that way.
Originally posted by Btk306 Its 15 dollars a month... Jesus christ. Spend less time argueing about it on forums and more time working. Final Fantasy has always been pay to play. Thats the way it is, and those of us who play it prefer it that way.
agree 100% with you . If you break down 15$ a month its 50 cents a day . If you can not afford 50 cents a day , you have far more life issues to deal with then playing a MMO. Simple
No one has yet to say they can't afford $15 a month.
No one has yet to say they want everything an optional subscriber would get.
No one has said they want a p2w model where people who pay more money get more of an advantage.
Myself and others have on multiple occasions, explained the difference between spending money on F2P vs P2P
Gonna bump part of my previous post since the majority seem to have missed it.
Gonna add that this isn't about the cost of the game, it's about the restrictiveness of it's model and the psychological differences between b2p / f2p and p2p in the feeling of choice that they offer. I prefer to choose how much I reward a developer, rather than being forced to pay a monthly fee for access to a game that might not deserve quite that much support, or may deserve much more. To me it's a way we the players can better support a good practice vs a poor one.
Also adding that this thread wasn't made to try and change a game that will be released P2P, but rather to discuss the idea of a model that could potentially cater to a wider audience by bringing two demographics together.
Also @ Ghavrigg As mentioned in my opening post, I agree that there should be limitations in how non subscribers can contribute to the community. Something like a world/area chat channel or even servers that are only accessible to subscribers is one of a few things that I believe would work to create seperate communities within a game. One of FFXI's strengths was the communities and relationships between those communities that it created. I find it fairly hilarious that at the release of Rising, En Masse had to add a prompt explaining how to turn off global chat in Tera.
Also to many others, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in so many of these posts.
After the amount of money that Square Enix has spent on two dev cycles in putting this game out twice, I'm going to say this will never happen. Even if the game doesn't do that well do you even understand how much time and energy has gone into it? Even if you don't feel its worth it, I'm sure there are several employees out there that feel their time was. If anything FFXIV will be subscription based with a sirry cosmetic shop. The most you could expect is B2P with a cash shop and an optional "elite" subscription. F2P? After all the work that's gone into this TWICE, that's an insult. If you don't like it, don't pay for it. Hell even TERA going F2P was amazing, as that game reeks of originality and hard work and deserves at least some of my money for me playing it. Same goes for FFXIV, they recreated their game for you, if you're interested then let the moths out of your pocket.
No one has yet to say they can't afford $15 a month.
No one has yet to say they want everything an optional subscriber would get.
No one has said they want a p2w model where people who pay more money get more of an advantage.
Myself and others have on multiple occasions, explained the difference between spending money on F2P vs P2P
Gonna bump part of my previous post since the majority seem to have missed it.
Gonna add that this isn't about the cost of the game, it's about the restrictiveness of it's model and the psychological differences between b2p / f2p and p2p in the feeling of choice that they offer. I prefer to choose how much I reward a developer, rather than being forced to pay a monthly fee for access to a game that might not deserve quite that much support, or may deserve much more. To me it's a way we the players can better support a good practice vs a poor one.
Also adding that this thread wasn't made to try and change a game that will be released P2P, but rather to discuss the idea of a model that could potentially cater to a wider audience by bringing two demographics together.
Also @ Ghavrigg As mentioned in my opening post, I agree that there should be limitations in how non subscribers can contribute to the community. Something like a world/area chat channel or even servers that are only accessible to subscribers is one of a few things that I believe would work to create seperate communities within a game. One of FFXI's strengths was the communities and relationships between those communities that it created. I find it fairly hilarious that at the release of Rising, En Masse had to add a prompt explaining how to turn off global chat in Tera.
Also to many others, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in so many of these posts.
What irony, you have your opinions and they have theirs. You prefer it one way for your reasons and they prefer it another way for their reasons. What's the irony in that?
No one has yet to say they can't afford $15 a month.
No one has yet to say they want everything an optional subscriber would get.
No one has said they want a p2w model where people who pay more money get more of an advantage.
Myself and others have on multiple occasions, explained the difference between spending money on F2P vs P2P
Gonna bump part of my previous post since the majority seem to have missed it.
Gonna add that this isn't about the cost of the game, it's about the restrictiveness of it's model and the psychological differences between b2p / f2p and p2p in the feeling of choice that they offer. I prefer to choose how much I reward a developer, rather than being forced to pay a monthly fee for access to a game that might not deserve quite that much support, or may deserve much more. To me it's a way we the players can better support a good practice vs a poor one.
Also adding that this thread wasn't made to try and change a game that will be released P2P, but rather to discuss the idea of a model that could potentially cater to a wider audience by bringing two demographics together.
Also @ Ghavrigg As mentioned in my opening post, I agree that there should be limitations in how non subscribers can contribute to the community. Something like a world/area chat channel or even servers that are only accessible to subscribers is one of a few things that I believe would work to create seperate communities within a game. One of FFXI's strengths was the communities and relationships between those communities that it created. I find it fairly hilarious that at the release of Rising, En Masse had to add a prompt explaining how to turn off global chat in Tera.
Also to many others, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in so many of these posts.
What irony, you have your opinions and they have theirs. You prefer it one way for your reasons and they prefer it another way for their reasons. What's the irony in that?
Irony in their posts being: Some of the posts cite F2P communities as being crap or F2Pers as being freeloading no-gooders or something like that, the problem is most P2Per posts do not countradict that minority, Hell in some cases they back it up tacitly which in turn shows that the P2P community is no better than the F2P community most are trying to discredit because while F2Pers openly admit they have some pretty annoying, aggravating, childish people in their midst the P2P community enables those with discriminatory tendencies based purely on cultural biases. Some people live off of 1-2 $ per day yet they have net access, electricity and a ancient PC which could barely run 2008 era games graphics (which basically means it can run most current mmos somewhat), are you gonna tell that person that they can't enjoy a game because they can't give between 1/4 of the money they'd need for the entire month? Christ people these days with horse vision and biases really need to stop and think beyond they're own selves.
No one has yet to say they can't afford $15 a month.
No one has yet to say they want everything an optional subscriber would get.
No one has said they want a p2w model where people who pay more money get more of an advantage.
Myself and others have on multiple occasions, explained the difference between spending money on F2P vs P2P
Gonna bump part of my previous post since the majority seem to have missed it.
Gonna add that this isn't about the cost of the game, it's about the restrictiveness of it's model and the psychological differences between b2p / f2p and p2p in the feeling of choice that they offer. I prefer to choose how much I reward a developer, rather than being forced to pay a monthly fee for access to a game that might not deserve quite that much support, or may deserve much more. To me it's a way we the players can better support a good practice vs a poor one.
Also adding that this thread wasn't made to try and change a game that will be released P2P, but rather to discuss the idea of a model that could potentially cater to a wider audience by bringing two demographics together.
Also @ Ghavrigg As mentioned in my opening post, I agree that there should be limitations in how non subscribers can contribute to the community. Something like a world/area chat channel or even servers that are only accessible to subscribers is one of a few things that I believe would work to create seperate communities within a game. One of FFXI's strengths was the communities and relationships between those communities that it created. I find it fairly hilarious that at the release of Rising, En Masse had to add a prompt explaining how to turn off global chat in Tera.
Also to many others, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in so many of these posts.
What irony, you have your opinions and they have theirs. You prefer it one way for your reasons and they prefer it another way for their reasons. What's the irony in that?
Irony in their posts being: Some of the posts cite F2P communities as being crap or F2Pers as being freeloading no-gooders or something like that, the problem is most P2Per posts do not countradict that minority, Hell in some cases they back it up tacitly which in turn shows that the P2P community is no better than the F2P community most are trying to discredit because while F2Pers openly admit they have some pretty annoying, aggravating, childish people in their midst the P2P community enables those with discriminatory tendencies based purely on cultural biases. Some people live off of 1-2 $ per day yet they have net access, electricity and a ancient PC which could barely run 2008 era games graphics (which basically means it can run most current mmos somewhat), are you gonna tell that person that they can't enjoy a game because they can't give between 1/4 of the money they'd need for the entire month? Christ people these days with horse vision and biases really need to stop and think beyond they're own selves.
Huh? That's not irony bro, it's still just a difference in opinions. You prefer your FTP games for your reasons, they have their reasons to prefer a PTP model.
If people are living off of 1-2 dollars per day they might want to set their priorities straight. You mean to tell me companies should waste all that money making their games so these people can play? I get it, you prefer FTP games, nothing wrong with that but don't descredit other peoples opinions just because they don't aggree with you.
Looks like you're the one with horse vision and bias towards your own opionion.
No, there is already enough F2P garbage out there to play for a thousand years, I want quality sub based content with real development beyond the next big cash shop scheme to outsmart the dimwitted.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It looks to me like a overwhelming majority prefer P2P over F2P . Most who like F2P must have never played a well made square enix MMO . Like ffxi for 10 years its evolved , added bi monthly events , seasonal events , patches bi monthly and content. Because V1 failed people forget they have another MMO doing just fine. People forget SE tried to be different and was overly ambitious. Now with V2 the path is clear and tailor made for the true fans of final fantasy and the franchise. That's all I have to say about it . Like it hate it but its truth
They went F2P in version one because V1 was broken so why steal from your fans with.crap. they offered it free to fix and have input on the direction of the game . Simple and is truth,
Interesting ideas OP. Very well written post. Not likely to happen, but that's not the point. Seems like this thread got derailed into a ftp v p2p discussion. It seems that op wanted to discuss his ideas more than the same old p2p v f2p debate.
I'm starting wonder what kind of community this game will have after reading through posts from some of the "fans" in this thread.
played the 1 day beta stress test phase 1, the combat was really action packed, you spam the tab button and 12345 and if you got far enough even the F1-12 keys!
Originally posted by Mardukk Interesting ideas OP. Very well written post. Not likely to happen, but that's not the point. Seems like this thread got derailed into a ftp v p2p discussion. It seems that op wanted to discuss his ideas more than the same old p2p v f2p debate. I'm starting wonder what kind of community this game will have after reading through posts from some of the "fans" in this thread.
By their own statements TRU FANZ WHO PAI FER DA GAME! SCREW DA BEGGARS!
Originally posted by Mardukk Interesting ideas OP. Very well written post. Not likely to happen, but that's not the point. Seems like this thread got derailed into a ftp v p2p discussion. It seems that op wanted to discuss his ideas more than the same old p2p v f2p debate. I'm starting wonder what kind of community this game will have after reading through posts from some of the "fans" in this thread.
all threads on MMORPG turn into F2P vsP2P arguments of late
i cant really talk on it much since im more then guilty of being part of that problem , i try to just ignore it now though since the argument will never end
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by rommello played the 1 day beta stress test phase 1, the combat was really action packed, you spam the tab button and 12345 and if you got far enough even the F1-12 keys!
Cool sensationalizaition, way to evaluate a P2P, eastern mmo games' combat based on your one day of beta testing at level 10...
Judging from your post it's probably safe to assume you don't possess the mental fortitude to endure the grind required to attain 1 level 50, let alone 3, to truely judge the merits of this games combat system.
Which is why i SE and am glad you will be on to your next F2P venture or instant-gratification mmo, so those of us who remain can attempt to build a real community ^^.
Oh and to any future rebuttle game balance for developers who are NOT trying to shaft their customer base or swindle a P2W cash shop goodie tends to evolve towards the later stages of the game... since running around and having epic battles with marmots and rabbits wouldn't make a lot of sense nor be entertaining...
Comments
Sadly they wont understand this .. They will say ''why not f2p, it wont hurt your game.'' bla bla bla ..
They dont understand demanding game to become F2P is something like going to gym asking for free acess to the gym, but only for restricted equipment or time. THIS IS NOT how world works.
They just have to understand that its only THEIR DECISION. Everyone must make his own decision .. so you decided to have family, kid, work? Good for you, stop begging for free acess to the game. There are hundered of thousands of players with families, work and kids who are willing to pay sub, without any problem. You are not one of them? Its your decision, and if its not your decision, then blame your parents or wife
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
People with this mentality honestly sicken me sometimes... F2P > P2P, end of story, because if you want to continue subbing you can, hell a decently converted P2P game will give you the same sub you always had, oh what cause now they spend maybe a month throwing together the items and scripting required to get F2P working you're gonna moan that "THIS IS NOT HOW THE WORLD WORKS?" so? if your world works in such a crappy fashion change it, plenty of good games offer you choice and you stand there and proclaim superiority because you have a better job than someone? news flash: luck of the draw don't make you any better than anyone else, if one person enjoys games and can afford paying a monthly sub while another one enjoys them just as much but can't, the right, the ethically good thing to do is to give the right of way to the person who can't afford it.
A good company will make good F2P games or good P2P games, in either case there's no strife as the P2P game will be alive and kicking keeping its head above the water, the good F2P game will flourish.
A crap company will make games destined to all be F2P and if you're lucky some will have a decent system, if not they'll be SWTOR level of bad.
agree 100% with you . If you break down 15$ a month its 50 cents a day . If you can not afford 50 cents a day , you have far more life issues to deal with then playing a MMO. Simple
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
Gonna bump part of my previous post since the majority seem to have missed it.
Gonna add that this isn't about the cost of the game, it's about the restrictiveness of it's model and the psychological differences between b2p / f2p and p2p in the feeling of choice that they offer. I prefer to choose how much I reward a developer, rather than being forced to pay a monthly fee for access to a game that might not deserve quite that much support, or may deserve much more. To me it's a way we the players can better support a good practice vs a poor one.
Also adding that this thread wasn't made to try and change a game that will be released P2P, but rather to discuss the idea of a model that could potentially cater to a wider audience by bringing two demographics together.
Also @ Ghavrigg As mentioned in my opening post, I agree that there should be limitations in how non subscribers can contribute to the community. Something like a world/area chat channel or even servers that are only accessible to subscribers is one of a few things that I believe would work to create seperate communities within a game. One of FFXI's strengths was the communities and relationships between those communities that it created. I find it fairly hilarious that at the release of Rising, En Masse had to add a prompt explaining how to turn off global chat in Tera.
Also to many others, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the irony in so many of these posts.
What irony, you have your opinions and they have theirs. You prefer it one way for your reasons and they prefer it another way for their reasons. What's the irony in that?
Irony in their posts being: Some of the posts cite F2P communities as being crap or F2Pers as being freeloading no-gooders or something like that, the problem is most P2Per posts do not countradict that minority, Hell in some cases they back it up tacitly which in turn shows that the P2P community is no better than the F2P community most are trying to discredit because while F2Pers openly admit they have some pretty annoying, aggravating, childish people in their midst the P2P community enables those with discriminatory tendencies based purely on cultural biases. Some people live off of 1-2 $ per day yet they have net access, electricity and a ancient PC which could barely run 2008 era games graphics (which basically means it can run most current mmos somewhat), are you gonna tell that person that they can't enjoy a game because they can't give between 1/4 of the money they'd need for the entire month? Christ people these days with horse vision and biases really need to stop and think beyond they're own selves.
Huh? That's not irony bro, it's still just a difference in opinions. You prefer your FTP games for your reasons, they have their reasons to prefer a PTP model.
If people are living off of 1-2 dollars per day they might want to set their priorities straight. You mean to tell me companies should waste all that money making their games so these people can play? I get it, you prefer FTP games, nothing wrong with that but don't descredit other peoples opinions just because they don't aggree with you.
Looks like you're the one with horse vision and bias towards your own opionion.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/allods-online-russia-opens-up-subscription-based-server/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/allods-online-russia-opens-up-subscription-based-server/
But they started off with F2P, FFXIV started with P2P.
Still takes bigger balls to go from F2P to P2P.
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
I'm starting wonder what kind of community this game will have after reading through posts from some of the "fans" in this thread.
hallo ~_~
By their own statements TRU FANZ WHO PAI FER DA GAME! SCREW DA BEGGARS!
all threads on MMORPG turn into F2P vsP2P arguments of late
i cant really talk on it much since im more then guilty of being part of that problem , i try to just ignore it now though since the argument will never end
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Cool sensationalizaition, way to evaluate a P2P, eastern mmo games' combat based on your one day of beta testing at level 10...
Judging from your post it's probably safe to assume you don't possess the mental fortitude to endure the grind required to attain 1 level 50, let alone 3, to truely judge the merits of this games combat system.
Which is why i
SE and am glad you will be on to your next F2P venture or instant-gratification mmo, so those of us who remain can attempt to build a real community ^^.
Oh and to any future rebuttle game balance for developers who are NOT trying to shaft their customer base or swindle a P2W cash shop goodie tends to evolve towards the later stages of the game... since running around and having epic battles with marmots and rabbits wouldn't make a lot of sense nor be entertaining...
Still failed to refute his point and followed it up by making a subjective off-base statement...