I said it makes sense to 'compare' a SP to a MMO. You can't say that ESO had to have faction locks because it is a MMO. There are many things from TES that would've translated to a MMO. That is all.
I did not say this should be a co-op game or like SWTOR.
Well no, however it does work well in an MMO. IMO though its irrelevant wether its a right or wrong decision. It's how well its implemented.
Sure it works great in a MMO. I enjoyed DAoC, GW2, TSW and look forward to CU but I do not think it would work in a TES game. To me, it doesn't matter how well it's implemented, they took away what defined Elder Scrolls for me personally.
I respect that we don't see eye to eye. I'm not trying to convince you change your opinion, I'm only stating mine. Thank you keeping this conversation civil.
I like how on this forum people have to thank one another for being civil.
I think being a huge fan of the Warcraft RTS games and Blizzard changing my Warcraft experience for something different, I'm willing to give Zenimax a chance.
Giving fans of the IP something new and different.
The thing with Blizzard though it doesn't look like I will be getting any more Warcraft RTS games. ES will still be releasing SPRPG's.
I admit there are some haters of ESO that take things too far (same for the fans). I am not a 'hater of games'. The only games I've had a falling out with are Rift and SWTOR, both of which had to do with customer support issues. Even then I didn't go around posting a bunch of threads on the matter.
I have no problem with many of the systems of ESO. If it would've been another IP, I would've supported this game. To me this issue is bigger than just one game. MMOs has been declining in substance, imo. They are too focused on how people define the genre and what would make the most money instead of just making an enjoyable game (or properly representing the IP in ESO's case).
Sure it works great in a MMO. I enjoyed DAoC, GW2, TSW and look forward to CU but I do not think it would work in a TES game. To me, it doesn't matter how well it's implemented, they took away what defined Elder Scrolls for me personally.
I respect that we don't see eye to eye. I'm not trying to convince you change your opinion, I'm only stating mine. Thank you keeping this conversation civil.
I like how on this forum people have to thank one another for being civil.
I think being a huge fan of the Warcraft RTS games and Blizzard changing my Warcraft experience for something different, I'm willing to give Zenimax a chance.
Giving fans of the IP something new and different.
The thing with Blizzard though it doesn't look like I will be getting any more Warcraft RTS games. ES will still be releasing SPRPG's.
Oh man you just don't know! I've had hateful messages sent to me from anonymous emails, been called names, strawman'd out the ass, and just recently I had someone wish for my physical passing.
To me, going from RTS to RPG is a huge leap, it just doesn't compare a SP-RPG going to MMORPG. Both have open worlds, stat system, weapons, etc. - well you get the drift. Even Oblivion was considered an 'offline MMO' because of the similarities. I do respect that you are giving Zenimax the benefit of the doubt, in that way you are bigger than I.
I don't think they are giving us something new and different... well maybe new and different from the TES series but many of the systems they are advertising are just 'generic MMO systems' with a twist (imo).
I'm happy to know that we will see future TES games (and I wouldn't put it past blizzard to rehash Warcraft RTS in the future, you just never know with all the games going to tablets/phones).
Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.
Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!
So it's okay for fans to get hyped up about a title and talk about how much they are going to love it but it's not okay for people to say they don't like the direction they are going?
If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?
Dear forum user Nanfoodle,
For your use of sound reasoning and logic within this forum, you have been issued a warning and have been penalized 5 internet points.
Please refrain from being reasonable in these forums. Furthermore, do not use your pragmatic outlook to get in the way of other's sermonizing and doom saying.
Very true, though I think it is ironic that I and others have to ASSUME about the PVE in TESO so much because all they are freaking advertising is the RvR...
In that case I believe it is also safe to assume one thing. Over past few years there was some kind of pressure from many players to create some MMORPG that has some meaningful RvR. Now as meaningful it is in TESO that remains to be seen. However with players wanting such game, PvE games no matter what being instantly called WoW clones and TESO happening to have RvR it is reasonable for them to give bigger deal of information on RvR while holding back info on PvE side of the game unless giving it is required or they are 100% certain it would help them in marketing.
Not saying that PvE will be any different from WoW or not. It is just how this business works and nothing else.
This is definitely a possibility.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I don't know, this whole thing just seems like a bad idea to me. It's not Bethesda. It barely "feels" like an Elder Scrolls game to me yet.
I haven't bought any of the Skyrim DLC yet, but reading about Hearthfire and the other DLC was more exciting to me than reading anything about TESO.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
How about this for a change? If this isn't the game you were expecting, then don't play it. Go out and make the game you want to play, if you think it's so easy. Don't want to? Then why would you expect a company to do so? I'm personally excited for this game because it is an MMO set in a world I know and love. That's good enough for me. As much as I would like to see the MMO version of TES that I have dreamed of, I'm ok with settling for this (for now, anyways). As the tired saying goes, don't like it then don't buy it. What's that other one? If you want it done right, do it yourself.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
Originally posted by walltar "TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.
I do sympathise - but I intend to keep banging this drum in as non-bias a way as I can.
You'll see from the poll choices at least that despite my personal opinion, all options are available to vote on.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".
Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.
Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".
Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.
Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.
No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".
Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.
Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.
No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.
Im going off memory. The article is probably far back in the archives. I dont have the time to go search it out
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Originally posted by xer0skill How about this for a change? If this isn't the game you were expecting, then don't play it. Go out and make the game you want to play, if you think it's so easy. Don't want to? Then why would you expect a company to do so? I'm personally excited for this game because it is an MMO set in a world I know and love. That's good enough for me. As much as I would like to see the MMO version of TES that I have dreamed of, I'm ok with settling for this (for now, anyways). As the tired saying goes, don't like it then don't buy it. What's that other one? If you want it done right, do it yourself.
How about this for a change - If you don't like what you're reading, then don't read it.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".
Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.
Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.
No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.
Im going off memory. The article is probably far back in the archives. I dont have the time to go search it out
If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.
If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?
Taking away freedom of faction choice and exploration is enough for me to judge personally, they are important features to me. I'm a little sketchy on the combat and class systems as well but I don't know enough about them to judge so I haven't said anything yet.
Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...
1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.
2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.
3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.
So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.
As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry.
I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.
If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!!
If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim." - Matt Firor
Interesting to see if the poll results in favour of the current game model will fall as low as 1/4.
It seems in steady decline as respondent number increase, and the last option is now in the ascendant.
This poll is all about perception.
One wonders if this is the kind of perception Zenimax wanted to engender?
Don't put to much stock in the poll results. The options are poorly constructed and biased in their phrasing so the last option is the only one that is even somewhat correct, hence it is coming out on top.
Hah! Got to love the people who instead of engaging directly on the issue, call the entire exercise into question without backing up their challenge for the same purpose as the more honest approach.
Sigh, there's only so much one can type while replying with a cell phone. Predictably, I knew you'd call me out and I'd get a chance to do a more formal reply. (because it's obvious you're spoiling for a fight)
Three options stating TES with some DAoC thrown in an one with DAoC as the primary element - and the poll is bias?
I wasn't interested in having a control question where there was no DAoC at all - primarily because a chimp can work out where the DAoC is in the game.
This is about how well it's integrated, and as such, covers the extent of potential possibilities just fine.
TES with DAOC flawlessly integrated - Inaccurate and inflammatory, better way to state it might be TES with strong similarities to DAOC gameplay design.
TES with DAOC clumsily integrated - negative adjective and implies lack of competence, better might be TES with minimal DAOC integration
TES ruined by too much DAOC - Again, negative adjective, implies game will be bad if it is too closely like DAOC. Might be different, doesn't go hand in hand that it will suck.. better might be Too similar to DAOC to be considered a TES MMO
DAOC using a popular IP to generate more sales - This was your only reasonable choice, however the way its phrased the implied message is that this is a bad thing. It's a business decision, no value judgement necessary. A better way to do it might be DAOC based around a popular IP in order to generate more sales.
I disagree with your claims of bias, and would question your motives if there was the slightest chance of finding out what they truly are.
Most of your wording was unnecessarily inflammatory and inaccuate (IMO) and I couldn't even pick one to vote on. (except maybe the last one)
If you would like to quote me some sociology research on the methodology of evidence gathering which is relevant to back yourself up - I'm all ears.
Oh stop, we're having a bit of forum PVP, no need to turn it into a college level debate team effort.
Otherwise a rejoiner is a waste of time wouldn't you say?
As to my motives, I just dont' like seeing people draw incorrect conclusions to support their position from flawed poll data.
That and I enjoy discussing MMO topics on these forums.
Heck, you do realize I agree with you, TESO isn't likely to be much of a TES MMORPG at all, in fact, it really won't be as much like DAOC as people seem to hope/expect. There will be too many modern theme park designs incoporated into it to really be a decent representative of either concept.
Now whether that is a good or bad thing is entirely dependent on what your expectations are. You are clearly disappointed (as I'm sure lots of TES fans are), can't say its anything I really want (I enjoyed DAOC's FFA PVP servers much more, RVR, not so much) but somewhere out there they'll likely find a target market. Just probably not as large as they are hoping for.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim." - Matt Firor
That is the exact quote.
Looking up quotes goes both ways, here's where it came from.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim." - Matt Firor
That is the exact quote.
Looking up quotes goes both ways, here's where it came from.
Yes. the full quote makes much more sense than the two attempts to spin it above:
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG,"
That was after talking about TESO being a PC and Mac game but not for consoles...
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...
1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.
2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.
3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.
So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.
As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry.
I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.
If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!!
4. DAoC fans who will take things out of context to try and defend their little nugget of happiness.
5. Suckers who blindly flock to the next big MMO and throw money at it until they've filled the hole in their meaningless lives.
Seriously, some of you're descriptions sound about as retarded as 4 & 5. TES fans do not want the game designed to our vision but we want ESO to be in TES' vision. I am only speaking my mind about what defines TES for me.
What does this have to do with my right to make a judgement on ESO with the information we have so far?
Matt Firor: "You said the thing that is the most important. It is the franchise that we are taking online, not the single-player game. The single-player games are still the single-player games. We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before, much like the Elder Scrolls novels. But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it. We've taken a lot of effort to make the lore consistent and make sure that it's the experience that they expect. The places they can go, the characters they can play and the enemies are all based very much on the world that they know, and that's where it works."
Afterall there would be no point in the IP if you didn't want to have people would loved Skyrim buying your game. What I did find interesting is he is telling people to wait and play the game, so don't preorder.
Matt Firor: "You said the thing that is the most important. It is the franchise that we are taking online, not the single-player game. The single-player games are still the single-player games. We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before, much like the Elder Scrolls novels. But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it. We've taken a lot of effort to make the lore consistent and make sure that it's the experience that they expect. The places they can go, the characters they can play and the enemies are all based very much on the world that they know, and that's where it works."
Afterall there would be no point in the IP if you didn't want to have people would loved Skyrim buying your game. What I did find interesting is he is telling people to wait and play the game, so don't preorder.
The more I think about it this game would've been much more accepted if Zenimax just used a new IP. Seeing the phrase "From the creator's of The Elder Scrolls" would've hyped it up just as much, they would've had another IP to market and no one would've held it to TES standards.
Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...
1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.
2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.
3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.
So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.
As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry.
I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.
If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!!
4. DAoC fans who will take things out of context to try and defend their little nugget of happiness.
5. Suckers who blindly flock to the next big MMO and throw money at it until they've filled the hole in their meaningless lives.
Seriously, some of you're descriptions sound about as retarded as 4 & 5. TES fans do not want the game designed to our vision but we want ESO to be in TES' vision. I am only speaking my mind about what defines TES for me.
What does this have to do with my right to make a judgement on ESO with the information we have so far?
Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans, MMO or TES based. You and I are group 3 and as much as we make the most noise, most in that group will buy the game no matter what and as long as they make the game awesome, we will stay be it WoW model or DAoC or any other. You think they made a bad move with the model they picked, but looking at the 3 groups I listed, it will net the most gain IMO and fits the needs of TSE turned into ESO best as a whole. Voice all ya like, buy or dont buy the game. But we know if you are from group 3 and most likely you are, you are going to buy the game no matter what.
Comments
I like how on this forum people have to thank one another for being civil.
I think being a huge fan of the Warcraft RTS games and Blizzard changing my Warcraft experience for something different, I'm willing to give Zenimax a chance.
Giving fans of the IP something new and different.
The thing with Blizzard though it doesn't look like I will be getting any more Warcraft RTS games. ES will still be releasing SPRPG's.
I admit there are some haters of ESO that take things too far (same for the fans). I am not a 'hater of games'. The only games I've had a falling out with are Rift and SWTOR, both of which had to do with customer support issues. Even then I didn't go around posting a bunch of threads on the matter.
I have no problem with many of the systems of ESO. If it would've been another IP, I would've supported this game. To me this issue is bigger than just one game. MMOs has been declining in substance, imo. They are too focused on how people define the genre and what would make the most money instead of just making an enjoyable game (or properly representing the IP in ESO's case).
Oh man you just don't know! I've had hateful messages sent to me from anonymous emails, been called names, strawman'd out the ass, and just recently I had someone wish for my physical passing.
To me, going from RTS to RPG is a huge leap, it just doesn't compare a SP-RPG going to MMORPG. Both have open worlds, stat system, weapons, etc. - well you get the drift. Even Oblivion was considered an 'offline MMO' because of the similarities. I do respect that you are giving Zenimax the benefit of the doubt, in that way you are bigger than I.
I don't think they are giving us something new and different... well maybe new and different from the TES series but many of the systems they are advertising are just 'generic MMO systems' with a twist (imo).
I'm happy to know that we will see future TES games (and I wouldn't put it past blizzard to rehash Warcraft RTS in the future, you just never know with all the games going to tablets/phones).
Dear forum user Nanfoodle,
For your use of sound reasoning and logic within this forum, you have been issued a warning and have been penalized 5 internet points.
Please refrain from being reasonable in these forums. Furthermore, do not use your pragmatic outlook to get in the way of other's sermonizing and doom saying.
You have been warned.
Thank you and good day.
This is definitely a possibility.
But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.
I don't know, this whole thing just seems like a bad idea to me. It's not Bethesda. It barely "feels" like an Elder Scrolls game to me yet.
I haven't bought any of the Skyrim DLC yet, but reading about Hearthfire and the other DLC was more exciting to me than reading anything about TESO.
I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme. What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans. They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.
Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"
All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?
Not all options are available.
You should have added "None of the above"
The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".
Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.
Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.
Im going off memory. The article is probably far back in the archives. I dont have the time to go search it out
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
How about this for a change - If you don't like what you're reading, then don't read it.
If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.
Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...
1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.
2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.
3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.
So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.
As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry.
I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.
If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!!
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim." - Matt Firor
That is the exact quote.
As to my motives, I just dont' like seeing people draw incorrect conclusions to support their position from flawed poll data.
That and I enjoy discussing MMO topics on these forums.
Heck, you do realize I agree with you, TESO isn't likely to be much of a TES MMORPG at all, in fact, it really won't be as much like DAOC as people seem to hope/expect. There will be too many modern theme park designs incoporated into it to really be a decent representative of either concept.
Now whether that is a good or bad thing is entirely dependent on what your expectations are. You are clearly disappointed (as I'm sure lots of TES fans are), can't say its anything I really want (I enjoyed DAOC's FFA PVP servers much more, RVR, not so much) but somewhere out there they'll likely find a target market. Just probably not as large as they are hoping for.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Looking up quotes goes both ways, here's where it came from.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/01/zenimax-devs-unapologetic-about-making-elder-scrolls-mmo/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes. the full quote makes much more sense than the two attempts to spin it above:
"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim. We're making the MMO version of the Elder Scrolls, and with that comes some conventions that are different from a console RPG,"
That was after talking about TESO being a PC and Mac game but not for consoles...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
4. DAoC fans who will take things out of context to try and defend their little nugget of happiness.
5. Suckers who blindly flock to the next big MMO and throw money at it until they've filled the hole in their meaningless lives.
Seriously, some of you're descriptions sound about as retarded as 4 & 5. TES fans do not want the game designed to our vision but we want ESO to be in TES' vision. I am only speaking my mind about what defines TES for me.
What does this have to do with my right to make a judgement on ESO with the information we have so far?
Matt Firor: "You said the thing that is the most important. It is the franchise that we are taking online, not the single-player game. The single-player games are still the single-player games. We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before, much like the Elder Scrolls novels. But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it. We've taken a lot of effort to make the lore consistent and make sure that it's the experience that they expect. The places they can go, the characters they can play and the enemies are all based very much on the world that they know, and that's where it works."
Which was taken from here http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-17-the-elder-scrolls-online-reinventing-a-franchise-in-an-online-world
Afterall there would be no point in the IP if you didn't want to have people would loved Skyrim buying your game. What I did find interesting is he is telling people to wait and play the game, so don't preorder.
The more I think about it this game would've been much more accepted if Zenimax just used a new IP. Seeing the phrase "From the creator's of The Elder Scrolls" would've hyped it up just as much, they would've had another IP to market and no one would've held it to TES standards.
Long way of saying, your and my input mean very little. ESO devs have spent a lot of time working out what model will get them the most money and make the game that will net them the most fans, MMO or TES based. You and I are group 3 and as much as we make the most noise, most in that group will buy the game no matter what and as long as they make the game awesome, we will stay be it WoW model or DAoC or any other. You think they made a bad move with the model they picked, but looking at the 3 groups I listed, it will net the most gain IMO and fits the needs of TSE turned into ESO best as a whole. Voice all ya like, buy or dont buy the game. But we know if you are from group 3 and most likely you are, you are going to buy the game no matter what.