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"US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,818
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Scot

    And as more and more MMO's and players go F2P, MMO's have got worse.

     

    "worse" in your opinion.

    So i guess you will quit MMO at some point because the trend is pretty clear.

    I think you need to work on your game play that was lame even for you.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     

  • EmrendilEmrendil Member Posts: 199
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Free to play is for those who subscribe to mediocrity.. & have little interest in spending money on their hobby.

    Honestly, who here wants.. a cheaply made mmorpg? I know.. children who have not learn to decern quality.. and just want quantity.

    Was SWTOR cheaply made MMO?

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Mortemia

    Didn't really know that talking about F2P and P2P requires this much modding and deleting posts. It's quite a chore to play catch up when you keep erasing stuff faster than we write it down.

    Maybe it's those big F2P advertisements on the site that get bad rep here...

    ALl the posts that have been moded or deleted got a little too personal. And uising the word 'troll' in any manner usually invite mods edit. As far F2P advertisements go..feel free to pay mmorpg.com staff out of your own pockets. They got to run business here. If not stop your whining and move to some other forums.Getting tired of this constant crying about gaming websites trying to generate revenue through ads. I wonder if you people have completely lost touch with reality.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

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  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     Someone give this man a medal ^^. In the end it is truly that simple, free games have more players ergo you wait less in "looking for game" or "looking for group" queues and in the case of persistent world MMO type free to play games it gives the impression of being in a living world even if world/trade/general/w/e chat is kind of disturbing at times on some servers.

     

    Even sandbox MMOs require people around less the player gives up after running out of ideas of what to do alone and moves to another game, this is why CCP (the makers of EVE-Online) are a more sensitive bunch of devs, they know they have a core group of players which over time has grown and they also know that their game isn't for the masses ergo they tend to be a whole lot more hands on with players, you'll never submit tickets, even highly technical ones, and wait more than 2 days for a reply, on the easier tickets they usually reply within a matter of hours and don't even get me started on the polaris fleet events (game masters and developer group moving out in pimped out dev ships to engage players on mass, sometimes it works for them and they gank a bunch of people before retreating, other times they run into Goonswarm & Co or one of the major high sec groups and the royal shit hits the fan, though at times the polaris fleets fit GM mods in which case it's really a case of 3000-4000 people vs 100, does the 100 have the balls to turn off their god mode modules?).

     

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  • WaiwanWaiwan Member Posts: 20
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.

    I dont see him saying he is rich, he just stated the fact like op did.

    Plus I dont see how 0-100 km/h times has anything to do with how car is good/expensive .. lol.  + I hope you are organ doner

    anyways :) How much money did you bikes costs if $15 dollar per month is so damn important. ITS REALLY FUNNY reading your posts about how MMOs are not worth it, etc. What do you think mmmorpg.com is about, motocycles?

     

    Make us a favor please ...GO find yourself some motocycles-related forums instead and post there..Creating threads here on mmorpgs.com how mmos are just waste of time and how you find a new awesome hobby and you can make 1-100 km/h in 0,0001 sec wont make you look like some cool kid or hero in here. We care this much || ZERO

     

    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,818
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     

    I agree with you, if you read my post no where did I say everyone is playing a game F2P for free. All I am saying is that subscription yields more revenue than F2P. More revenue equals more content and more quality. This is not exactly rocket science.

    With the merger of the two revenue streams that is happening in all MMO's we will not have games that can be called F2P in the future. All so called F2P MMO's will have a sub option. Gaming companies are not going to want to lose the word "free" as a tag for their MMO but thats whats going to happen. 

     

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Waiwan
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.

    I dont see him saying he is rich, he just stated the fact like op did.

    Plus I dont see how 0-100 km/h times has anything to do with how car is good/expensive .. lol.  + I hope you are organ doner

    anyways :) How much money did you bikes costs if $15 dollar per month is so damn important. ITS REALLY FUNNY reading your posts about how MMOs are not worth it, etc. What do you think mmmorpg.com is about, motocycles?

     

    Make us a favor please ...GO find yourself some motocycles-related forums instead and post there..Creating threads here on mmorpgs.com how mmos are just waste of time and how you find a new awesome hobby and you can make 1-100 km/h in 0,0001 sec wont make you look like some cool kid or hero in here. We care this much || ZERO

     

    Probably because on a biker forum they'd rip him a new one, he states several things without any real knowledge of the subject, pretty much your average suicide jockey approaching a corner too fast with an adverse camber, they don't tend to last long image

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Tazlor
    I would rather pay a sub. If you actually want to get into any F2P game you'll eventually have to shell out a few hundred bucks.

    1000 times this

    The only people who think F2P MMO are free play them for 1 week and stop playing and claim the MMO didn't force them to pay. I can play a P2P with a free trial for a week too but I don't go claiming it's free.

  • mymmomymmo Member UncommonPosts: 311
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Everyone seems to love P2P in this thread.  Do you still love the box price with the sub?  Or just a sub is enough P2P for you?  Just curious.  I don't feel that I'll ever do box price and sub together ever again, short of my dream game.

    most of the ppl on this site don't play mmos anymore. They just come here to complain about them.

    haha- so true. :) 

    Eve online and +1500 steam games in the back cataloge makes me a stressed out gamer.
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

    If enjoyment for you means the end of the jorney not the journey itself (ex: playing tier 10 tanks in World of Tanks as opposed to playing any of the other tiers) then yes your enjoyment was hindered, but make no mistake that is your definition of the word as other people play a game because they want to enjoy it as a experience not for the endgame (in the same example: they like playing tier 5-6 tanks even if they aren't sometimes the top tank or even in the top 5 tanks within a certain match).

     

    I am personally tired of P2P themepark games because they are scams pure and simple, they have no horizontal progression, only verticle and in this type of game they can keep you subbed and chugging away at content for as long as they can keep up with your content needs (which depending on the difficulty could very well be possible).

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  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

    If enjoyment for you means the end of the jorney not the journey itself (ex: playing tier 10 tanks in World of Tanks as opposed to playing any of the other tiers) then yes your enjoyment was hindered, but make no mistake that is your definition of the word as other people play a game because they want to enjoy it as a experience not for the endgame (in the same example: they like playing tier 5-6 tanks even if they aren't sometimes the top tank or even in the top 5 tanks within a certain match).

     

    I am personally tired of P2P themepark games because they are scams pure and simple, they have no horizontal progression, only verticle and in this type of game they can keep you subbed and chugging away at content for as long as they can keep up with your content needs (which depending on the difficulty could very well be possible).

    The lack of horizontal progression in themepark games isn't a P2P vs F2P thing.  That's for another discussion though.

    But how can you call it a scam?  You pay $15 a month, they give you access to their game.  Everybody gets what they want.  You're under no obligation to continue paying or to subscribte in the first place.  If you're beating the content faster than they can release it then quit.  Just because you don't like the payment model doesn't make it a scam.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • LienhartLienhart Member UncommonPosts: 662
    Edited to be empty for now...
    I live to go faster...or die trying.
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

    If enjoyment for you means the end of the jorney not the journey itself (ex: playing tier 10 tanks in World of Tanks as opposed to playing any of the other tiers) then yes your enjoyment was hindered, but make no mistake that is your definition of the word as other people play a game because they want to enjoy it as a experience not for the endgame (in the same example: they like playing tier 5-6 tanks even if they aren't sometimes the top tank or even in the top 5 tanks within a certain match).

     

    I am personally tired of P2P themepark games because they are scams pure and simple, they have no horizontal progression, only verticle and in this type of game they can keep you subbed and chugging away at content for as long as they can keep up with your content needs (which depending on the difficulty could very well be possible).

    The lack of horizontal progression in themepark games isn't a P2P vs F2P thing.  That's for another discussion though.

    But how can you call it a scam?  You pay $15 a month, they give you access to their game.  Everybody gets what they want.  You're under no obligation to continue paying or to subscribte in the first place.  If you're beating the content faster than they can release it then quit.  Just because you don't like the payment model doesn't make it a scam.

    It's a scam because it's a Skinner's box, and a damn poor one but if it had horizontal progression then they'd at least have to have had a better box for you, ergo scam, back in ultima online's day you paid 10-15$ for access to a virtual world, nowadays you pay to access a game and a piss poor one with skinner's reward system to make you feel that somehow it's worth it.

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  • just1opinionjust1opinion Member UncommonPosts: 4,641
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

     

    Ditto.  I think most f2p games are borderline sucky anyway. They generally feel cheap. I prefer buy to play or better yet......pay to play.  After all, you get what you pay for.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Obvious thread is obvious. Of course there's gonna be more people who'll hang around for free instead of having to pay. That's just how people are.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does?

    • Maple Story
    • Combat Arms
    • Vindictus
    • Habbo Hotel

    There are probably more F2P MMOs "making the money a subscription game can" than there are subscription games doing so. That's not including the sub games that weren't doing so well as subs but turned profitable once they went free to play. (ex: TSW, DDO)

    Gamers1st(previously K2 Networks) and Nexon have been rolling in cash for years now, while most subscription MMO devs are trying to figure out how to keep the lights on... usually solving that by going free to play. :)

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314
    Face it, the majority of the people rooting for f2p are just too cheap to pay a sub, and have diluted themselves into thinking they are entiled to it.
  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

     

    Ditto.  I think most f2p games are borderline sucky anyway. They generally feel cheap. I prefer buy to play or better yet......pay to play.  After all, you get what you pay for.

    No matter how much bickering back and forth, this is what it all comes down to. It's a universal truth that is constant.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

     

    Ditto.  I think most f2p games are borderline sucky anyway. They generally feel cheap. I prefer buy to play or better yet......pay to play.  After all, you get what you pay for.

    No matter how much bickering back and forth, this is what it all comes down to. It's a universal truth that is constant.

     Not at all.  IMO most sub based games just aren't worth it.  They don't provide me much enjoyment at least not more than the f2p ones. 

    As far as you get what you pay for, there are numerous examples of things that are increasing in costs and provide less value for hte same amount of money spent.  Health care, taxes just to name a couple.

    edit - and once again, since many people believe that a f2p can cost more, well then according that principle it must be better.

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

     

    Ditto.  I think most f2p games are borderline sucky anyway. They generally feel cheap. I prefer buy to play or better yet......pay to play.  After all, you get what you pay for.

    No matter how much bickering back and forth, this is what it all comes down to. It's a universal truth that is constant.

     Not at all.  IMO most sub based games just aren't worth it.  They don't provide me much enjoyment at least not more than the f2p ones. 

    As far as you get what you pay for, there are numerous examples of things that are increasing in costs and provide less value for hte same amount of money spent.  Health care, taxes just to name a couple.

    You can convince yourself into believing whatever the heck you want to, I however, will continue to use common sense and logic as I have always done.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

     

    Ditto.  I think most f2p games are borderline sucky anyway. They generally feel cheap. I prefer buy to play or better yet......pay to play.  After all, you get what you pay for.

    No matter how much bickering back and forth, this is what it all comes down to. It's a universal truth that is constant.

     Not at all.  IMO most sub based games just aren't worth it.  They don't provide me much enjoyment at least not more than the f2p ones. 

    As far as you get what you pay for, there are numerous examples of things that are increasing in costs and provide less value for hte same amount of money spent.  Health care, taxes just to name a couple.

    You can convince yourself into believing whatever the heck you want to, I however, will continue to use common sense and non-logic as I have always done.

    Which explains why things are going to Hell in a waste basket.

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  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    I would rather play FarmVille than Skyrim, I can't see why MMOs would be any different :-)
  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I would rather play FarmVille than Skyrim, I can't see why MMOs would be any different :-)

    I'd rather play Maplestory rather than WoW.

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This discussion has been closed.