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"US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by colddog04

    So your argument is that because you have seen threads about people wanting a game to go F2P, F2P games have shitty people in them and P2P games have better people.

     

    And just so you know, when a P2P game announces F2P, forums light up with people wanting to keep their game P2P. "F2P is SHIT! P2P RULES! God damn kiddies are going to infest my game!" So really, your anecdotal eveidence about the threads you personally see and pay attention to is worthless anyway.

     

    I mean, just read this thread to find out how mature the P2P community is.

    [mod edit]

    Yeah, I see the difference. P2P players are getting duped by the devs of almost every major release in the last 5 years. It's really the lifetime subbers that I feel the most sorry for.

     

    And you are overstating the amount and quality of the F2P players that are coming in and starting threads that beg for games to go F2P. I rarely, if ever see them. You apparently see them all the time. If anything I see crying by P2P players about their game going F2P all the time. And you're right, that does make sense. They just got bamboozled out of their preferred payment method.

     

    And I'm not knocking anyone that prefers one payment method over the other. But this thread certainly has a lot to say about the more vocal P2P-only crowd.

     

    So what u are saying, is that because you are an average consumer and was "duped" buy on of these devs, that you dont have additional money to try every game you want... so now u can try every free game u want.. because that alleviates ur own fear of wasting a few bucks on a game. Honestly, your arvument is hystarical... why really wants to play a free to play game, only because it is free.

    No, I'm not saying that at all. Another wierd answer that is really far off.

     

    I am currently paying for 2 games. WoW (to play arenas with my RL brother next season) and EVE (because it's great). I also play GW2 with my friends from other games (a B2P game) and occasionally bullshit around in Planetside 2 (a F2P game. I've spent $20 on it).

     

    My argument isn't that I only want to play a free game because it's free. How you got that is anyone's guess.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    Originally posted by Scot

    And as more and more MMO's and players go F2P, MMO's have got worse.

    One word. Funding.

    More like, they went F2P because they were bad MMOs and since then, STILL aren't good MMOs.

     

    The point of the thread is moot. I see that most everyone reailze that.

    More people are playing F2P now for many reasons (one being, because, well, they don't have much choice now since the majority of them have made the switch) but it has not improved the already failling MMOs. Also instead of funding the expasion of the game it goes into the cash shop. There isn't much growth like when F2P started with DDO and Lotro. Now, the players are spread out and not committing to any one MMO, thus hop from one to another. So "more F2P playerss!!11", whoop dee do.

     

    and now I have deja vu

    Good or bad is subjective and when it comes to MMOS it is no so black and hite. MMOS are ongoing process and many of these MMOS that were incomplete and horrible at launch have imoroved by leaps and beyond. STO and AOC for example.

    So nope it is not that simple. But then again according to your logic only bad mmos go F2P so if i look at the majority of opinions WOW is a very bad game and yet somehow it has highest P2P players in market. On the other hand majority of gamers and critics love TSW and it had to go B2P to survive.

    Subjective or not, it is the general consensus that some MMOs are not good MMOs, fun games maybe but not good MMOs.

    If the majority of gamers and critics love TSW then why is it doing so poorly?  I'm not playing it and don't know anyone that is or wants to. image

    You tell me? you are the one who is talking about majority here and even though what i am not saying is some 'facts' but from what i gathered, majority of player base loves TSW. It has got very good scores and reviews from many critis too. On the other hand WOW gets so much hate, no matter what gaming website or forum you are on and yet it is king od P2P MMOS.

    You just boiled everything down to game being good or bad to stay P2P or F2P. Even though it is not that simple that is all i am saying.

    I don't know you even brought up WoW. The hate it gets has more to do with it's popularity than what revenue model it uses.

    I also don't know why you need to call me out. I notice a trend and so I posted by what I'm seeing. I never said every F2P/P2P game is good or bad. You are the one trying make a point of that.

    So, the highlighted part was a lie?

     

    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    [mod edit]

    Your personal opinion and experinces are not facts.

    [mod edit]

     I will have to agree that more than often what dogblaster has said is true.

    Yes i brought up WOW to show that your assesment regarding what majority considers as a good or bad. Your view that simply if MMO is good it stays P2P and if it is bad it goes F2P is very simplistic at best and extremely black and white.

    I wasn't calling you out though. Simply disagreeing with your view point. A lot of good games also change their payment models because sometimes even though good games they fail to generate enough interest in gamers for number of reasons It could be because it is niche, more challenging, complex and  less advertisement etc.

    And as far as dogblaster is concerned i don't know what he said can be considered as true. Unless you mean his constant generalsiations, insults and acggressive attitude towards F2P players. And ignoring the irony that if he is trying to show that P2P players are more prudent and mature, he is completely failing at that.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon

    Breaking News *** beep beep

    Scoop McGee here on the scene reporting to you LIVE!

    "US free-to-play despisers outnumber pay-to-play 5 to 1"

    http://i56.tinypic.com/ip5e9g.png

  • A.BlacklochA.Blackloch NexusPosts: 831Member

    Didn't really know that talking about F2P and P2P requires this much modding and deleting posts. It's quite a chore to play catch up when you keep erasing stuff faster than we write it down.

    Maybe it's those big F2P advertisements on the site that get bad rep here...

    image image image

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lienhart
    Originally posted by Dogblaster Originally posted by Lienhart Originally posted by Dogblaster Poor pleople outnumbers rich people like 1000(made up) to 1 :D but yea ...   Every mmorpg wishes to be P2P or B2P but usually they cant :)   + say what you want. B2P or P2P communities are 1000x better than ANY F2P games. They dont last /stick with the games, they are not loyal and most of  these F2P players are just looking for FREE fun, they like to troll, etc.
    Poor people? What do you have in your garage?
    Mercedes E 2003. Not in garage tho .. :(
    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.


    you know where to put your money? LMAO!! as if spending $15 a month on an mmo is some sort of substantial investment.

    if you had the things you claim you do and the funds to purchase them, the money you would spend on an mmo would be irrelevant chump change.

    i am not a rich person by any means and spending $15 a month on a game is chump change to me.

    i spend more than that on take out.

    i would gladly give a game and its devs a little bit of money if i enjoy the game.

    i would especially rather do that than play a gimped restricted version of the game i want to play.



  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lienhart
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Lienhart
    Originally posted by Dogblaster

    Poor pleople outnumbers rich people like 1000(made up) to 1 :D but yea ...

    Every mmorpg wishes to be P2P or B2P but usually they cant :)

    + say what you want. B2P or P2P communities are 1000x better than ANY F2P games. They dont last /stick with the games, they are not loyal and most of  these F2P players are just looking for FREE fun, they like to troll, etc.

    Poor people?

    What do you have in your garage?

    Mercedes E 2003. Not in garage tho .. :(

    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.

    You've been putting in some serious overtime on this quest for validation. If you're above and better than the rest of us, why are you still here?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member
    Free to play is for those who subscribe to mediocrity.. & have little interest in spending money on their hobby.

    Honestly, who here wants.. a cheaply made mmorpg? [mod edit]

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    I am curious as to why this is even being brought up?   Free stuff always atracts more people - it's free!

    image
  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    NVM. No point in posting in this thread, please delete.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    I am curious as to why this is even being brought up?   Free stuff always atracts more people - it's free!

    Nothing is free especiay in the MMO world.

    image

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sportsfan
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by Scot

    And as more and more MMO's and players go F2P, MMO's have got worse.

    One word. Funding.

    Actually, that makes very little sense. Companies don't go free to play to make less money, if they did make less money they wouldn't go free to play. 

    I am not trying to be too offensive when I say this, but it feels like not to many people here actually think.

    are you talking short run or long run money here ?

    Zynga games have 300 million ... players and is broke. Free to play is to avoid shutting down former AAA games, while for B games it is a way to avoid taxes on other activities.

    What you see is an MMORPG industry losing players because of all that garbage out there.

    And unfortunately this site and others hyped way too much turds on the way.

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Scot

    And as more and more MMO's and players go F2P, MMO's have got worse.

     

    "worse" in your opinion.

    So i guess you will quit MMO at some point because the trend is pretty clear.

    I think you need to work on your game play that was lame even for you.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by Phelcher
    Free to play is for those who subscribe to mediocrity.. & have little interest in spending money on their hobby.

    Honestly, who here wants.. a cheaply made mmorpg? I know.. children who have not learn to decern quality.. and just want quantity.

    Was SWTOR cheaply made MMO?

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Mortemia

    Didn't really know that talking about F2P and P2P requires this much modding and deleting posts. It's quite a chore to play catch up when you keep erasing stuff faster than we write it down.

    Maybe it's those big F2P advertisements on the site that get bad rep here...

    ALl the posts that have been moded or deleted got a little too personal. And uising the word 'troll' in any manner usually invite mods edit. As far F2P advertisements go..feel free to pay mmorpg.com staff out of your own pockets. They got to run business here. If not stop your whining and move to some other forums.Getting tired of this constant crying about gaming websites trying to generate revenue through ads. I wonder if you people have completely lost touch with reality.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     Someone give this man a medal ^^. In the end it is truly that simple, free games have more players ergo you wait less in "looking for game" or "looking for group" queues and in the case of persistent world MMO type free to play games it gives the impression of being in a living world even if world/trade/general/w/e chat is kind of disturbing at times on some servers.

     

    Even sandbox MMOs require people around less the player gives up after running out of ideas of what to do alone and moves to another game, this is why CCP (the makers of EVE-Online) are a more sensitive bunch of devs, they know they have a core group of players which over time has grown and they also know that their game isn't for the masses ergo they tend to be a whole lot more hands on with players, you'll never submit tickets, even highly technical ones, and wait more than 2 days for a reply, on the easier tickets they usually reply within a matter of hours and don't even get me started on the polaris fleet events (game masters and developer group moving out in pimped out dev ships to engage players on mass, sometimes it works for them and they gank a bunch of people before retreating, other times they run into Goonswarm & Co or one of the major high sec groups and the royal shit hits the fan, though at times the polaris fleets fit GM mods in which case it's really a case of 3000-4000 people vs 100, does the 100 have the balls to turn off their god mode modules?).

     

    image
  • WaiwanWaiwan PraguePosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.

    I dont see him saying he is rich, he just stated the fact like op did.

    Plus I dont see how 0-100 km/h times has anything to do with how car is good/expensive .. lol.  + I hope you are organ doner

    anyways :) How much money did you bikes costs if $15 dollar per month is so damn important. ITS REALLY FUNNY reading your posts about how MMOs are not worth it, etc. What do you think mmmorpg.com is about, motocycles?

     

    Make us a favor please ...GO find yourself some motocycles-related forums instead and post there..Creating threads here on mmorpgs.com how mmos are just waste of time and how you find a new awesome hobby and you can make 1-100 km/h in 0,0001 sec wont make you look like some cool kid or hero in here. We care this much || ZERO

     

    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Scot

    Point out the F2P MMO which is making the money a subscription game can. I did not say F2P cannot fund a MMO, but can anyone here tell us of a F2P MMO that is making the money a sub game does? Or has the initial investment put into it that a sub game does? Quality costs money, less funding equals less quality.

    In the new age of MMO's we have many so called F2P games which have a sub as well. All MMO's are moving to a new revenue model which combines both F2P and P2P. But the more they rely on F2P the less funding they will have.

    You're talking about freemium games. they're not really f2p. They are more of a scam that is just trying to pigyback on the name. SWTOR is a good example of one of these games. Does anyone play that for free ?

    People just refuse to get that f2p games only USE the free players to fill in the gaps. Something p2p games suffer from as well. Many p2p games are not doing all that bad till people start to think there's no one ever around anymore and they quit to go find a more populated game.

    Free doesn't suffer this and they have just as many people spending money...IF they are a good game. Same thing a p2p game needs to be to get people to spend money on it.

    f2p doesn't mean everyone in the game is playing for free. That's just stupid....

     

    I agree with you, if you read my post no where did I say everyone is playing a game F2P for free. All I am saying is that subscription yields more revenue than F2P. More revenue equals more content and more quality. This is not exactly rocket science.

    With the merger of the two revenue streams that is happening in all MMO's we will not have games that can be called F2P in the future. All so called F2P MMO's will have a sub option. Gaming companies are not going to want to lose the word "free" as a tag for their MMO but thats whats going to happen. 

     

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,297Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waiwan
    Originally posted by Lienhart

    .....you have a car worth $10,000 CAD with piss poor 0-100km/h(0-60mp/h) times and absolute GARBAGE 1/4 mile timings and you're going around saying people are poor? -_______________-

    I choose F2P games for a damn good reason: 2008 GSXR-750 for street, 2012 CBR-600RR for track. The 750 will kill any car not classified as a supersport (and even then, a lot of supersports). I know where to put my money...you should learn too :P MMOs is not it.

    I dont see him saying he is rich, he just stated the fact like op did.

    Plus I dont see how 0-100 km/h times has anything to do with how car is good/expensive .. lol.  + I hope you are organ doner

    anyways :) How much money did you bikes costs if $15 dollar per month is so damn important. ITS REALLY FUNNY reading your posts about how MMOs are not worth it, etc. What do you think mmmorpg.com is about, motocycles?

     

    Make us a favor please ...GO find yourself some motocycles-related forums instead and post there..Creating threads here on mmorpgs.com how mmos are just waste of time and how you find a new awesome hobby and you can make 1-100 km/h in 0,0001 sec wont make you look like some cool kid or hero in here. We care this much || ZERO

     

    Probably because on a biker forum they'd rip him a new one, he states several things without any real knowledge of the subject, pretty much your average suicide jockey approaching a corner too fast with an adverse camber, they don't tend to last long image

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Tazlor
    I would rather pay a sub. If you actually want to get into any F2P game you'll eventually have to shell out a few hundred bucks.

    1000 times this

    The only people who think F2P MMO are free play them for 1 week and stop playing and claim the MMO didn't force them to pay. I can play a P2P with a free trial for a week too but I don't go claiming it's free.

  • mymmomymmo StockholmPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Everyone seems to love P2P in this thread.  Do you still love the box price with the sub?  Or just a sub is enough P2P for you?  Just curious.  I don't feel that I'll ever do box price and sub together ever again, short of my dream game.

    most of the ppl on this site don't play mmos anymore. They just come here to complain about them.

    haha- so true. :) 

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  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

    If enjoyment for you means the end of the jorney not the journey itself (ex: playing tier 10 tanks in World of Tanks as opposed to playing any of the other tiers) then yes your enjoyment was hindered, but make no mistake that is your definition of the word as other people play a game because they want to enjoy it as a experience not for the endgame (in the same example: they like playing tier 5-6 tanks even if they aren't sometimes the top tank or even in the top 5 tanks within a certain match).

     

    I am personally tired of P2P themepark games because they are scams pure and simple, they have no horizontal progression, only verticle and in this type of game they can keep you subbed and chugging away at content for as long as they can keep up with your content needs (which depending on the difficulty could very well be possible).

    image
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

     

    F2P MMO is a misnomer, they aren't free, they are limited access until you run into the cash grab known as a cash shop.

    "but my MMO is really free because you don't have to........" PLEASE, I have played tens of F2P MMO, in every single one your enjoyment of the game is hindered if you don't pay money.

    I am personally tired of F2P games, they are just scams pure ans simple.

    If enjoyment for you means the end of the jorney not the journey itself (ex: playing tier 10 tanks in World of Tanks as opposed to playing any of the other tiers) then yes your enjoyment was hindered, but make no mistake that is your definition of the word as other people play a game because they want to enjoy it as a experience not for the endgame (in the same example: they like playing tier 5-6 tanks even if they aren't sometimes the top tank or even in the top 5 tanks within a certain match).

     

    I am personally tired of P2P themepark games because they are scams pure and simple, they have no horizontal progression, only verticle and in this type of game they can keep you subbed and chugging away at content for as long as they can keep up with your content needs (which depending on the difficulty could very well be possible).

    The lack of horizontal progression in themepark games isn't a P2P vs F2P thing.  That's for another discussion though.

    But how can you call it a scam?  You pay $15 a month, they give you access to their game.  Everybody gets what they want.  You're under no obligation to continue paying or to subscribte in the first place.  If you're beating the content faster than they can release it then quit.  Just because you don't like the payment model doesn't make it a scam.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • LienhartLienhart Markham, ONPosts: 635Member
    Edited to be empty for now...
This discussion has been closed.