Originally posted by Nanfoodle I cant bring myself to pay money for a game that failed 3 years ago. Trials never let you play long enough to know if the game is good. So unless they change how they will make money on this game, I will pass.
Understandable, however it can hardly be even considered the same game. It doesnt even use the same engine.
Still have to buy a game and pay 15 bucks a month to try and game that failed to see if its worth playing now. If it was B2P I would consider it.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I cant bring myself to pay money for a game that failed 3 years ago. Trials never let you play long enough to know if the game is good. So unless they change how they will make money on this game, I will pass.
Understandable, however it can hardly be even considered the same game. It doesnt even use the same engine.
Still have to buy a game and pay 15 bucks a month to try and game that failed to see if its worth playing now. If it was B2P I would consider it.
You do know that beta 4 is open beta you wont buy anything and have time to play it. so that arguement is a silly one to try to make. You would know this by looking at the Final Fantasy XIV:ARR info post its listed there under beta road map.
Originally posted by PWN_FACE Short and simple for me. I play both sub-based and f2p games. The f2p games I like, I wind up subbing to and buying stuff in the cs. I'm going to quit that habit and stay with my sub only games because the f2p games wind up costing me a lot more.
See the problem with the F2P community do not lie with the people with this mentality but rather the majority of them. That look to mooch and freeload, then cry and complain about the limitations that are set forth for people who don't subscribe. And how they should have the same access to the game with their free account. Usually they will turn their arguments to well I would spend money on costumes or mounts in a cash shop, that don't actually effect gameplay.
Let's be real. If people are willing to spend real money on virtual vanity items. Why in hell do they have a problem with spending real money on having total access to the game?
That has always boggled me and is a very valid argument.
Freedom of choice is the answer. When a game is B2P or F2P, you can choose to then spend additional funds on vanity items (to support the game/developers). You can also choose to not play the game and not feel like you're wasting money due to not logging in. Taking a break from the game, for whatever reason, also boils down to a simple choice of not logging in. You also have the option of not spending another dime on the game after initial purchase for B2P, or at all in F2P. You have more personal control over how your money is allocated towards support for the game.
If you want a more real world example. The difference between playing a sub and B2P/F2P can be fairly dramatic in the minds of people. Let's say you're an accountant and are in your busy season. You may only be able to log into the game of your choice a few hours a month. Even though you can easily afford the $15 for access, it feels like wasted money since you're not able to play as much. So, you cancel your sub for the month or two that you're extremely busy. During that period you can't play at all. However, in the same situation for a non-sub game, well it doesn't matter. You can log in whenever you can and not feel like you're money is wasted.
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children (15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
Originally posted by PWN_FACE Short and simple for me. I play both sub-based and f2p games. The f2p games I like, I wind up subbing to and buying stuff in the cs. I'm going to quit that habit and stay with my sub only games because the f2p games wind up costing me a lot more.
See the problem with the F2P community do not lie with the people with this mentality but rather the majority of them. That look to mooch and freeload, then cry and complain about the limitations that are set forth for people who don't subscribe. And how they should have the same access to the game with their free account. Usually they will turn their arguments to well I would spend money on costumes or mounts in a cash shop, that don't actually effect gameplay.
Let's be real. If people are willing to spend real money on virtual vanity items. Why in hell do they have a problem with spending real money on having total access to the game?
That has always boggled me and is a very valid argument.
Freedom of choice is the answer. When a game is B2P or F2P, you can choose to then spend additional funds on vanity items (to support the game/developers). You can also choose to not play the game and not feel like you're wasting money due to not logging in. Taking a break from the game, for whatever reason, also boils down to a simple choice of not logging in. You also have the option of not spending another dime on the game after initial purchase for B2P, or at all in F2P. You have more personal control over how your money is allocated towards support for the game.
If you want a more real world example. The difference between playing a sub and B2P/F2P can be fairly dramatic in the minds of people. Let's say you're an accountant and are in your busy season. You may only be able to log into the game of your choice a few hours a month. Even though you can easily afford the $15 for access, it feels like wasted money since you're not able to play as much. So, you cancel your sub for the month or two that you're extremely busy. During that period you can't play at all. However, in the same situation for a non-sub game, well it doesn't matter. You can log in whenever you can and not feel like you're money is wasted.
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children (15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
^ A thousand times this. Bottom line, P2P will always be higher quality in every imaginable way. Don't like subs? Good, you're probably not the kind of player someone who enjoyed ffxi or V1 wants around anyway. We will be just fine without you, promise
^ A thousand times this. Bottom line, P2P will always be higher quality in every imaginable way. Don't like subs? Good, you're probably not the kind of player someone who enjoyed ffxi or V1 wants around anyway. We will be just fine without you, promise
Which P2P game is higher quality in every imaginable way?
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children (15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
Agreed.
You dont want to pay sub? So just move on and find different game! Stop cryeing an demand change... Do you go to store and ask for free or cheaper stuff just because you dont know if it taste good? I dont.
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children (15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
Constantly belitting others for their choice in video games seems like a far more heiness crime than someone asking questions about where to buy potions over chat. You seem like the last person I would ever want to be part of a community that I actually enjoyed being with. Your post only serves to reinforce the idea that P2P people tend to be just as vocal and vitriolic as F2P people.
And your generalizations are ridicuolous besides that. As if in P2P games people aren't constantly asking stupid questions. People game hop all the time in P2P games as well. Look at WoW. It probably has the most turnover of any game in existence. And you have no clue about how long people's relationships in either type of pricing model last. You are making shit up.
And XIV was horrible. It wasn't that people didn't understand it, it was that people understood how horrible it was. Although, if you get extreme amounts of enjoyment from watching moths around a street light, I can maybe understand why you liked it. It did have pretty good graphics. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there are people that do that exact same thing in another F2P game called LotRO where people are RPing and enjoying the game world just fine.
Originally posted by PWN_FACE Short and simple for me. I play both sub-based and f2p games. The f2p games I like, I wind up subbing to and buying stuff in the cs. I'm going to quit that habit and stay with my sub only games because the f2p games wind up costing me a lot more.
See the problem with the F2P community do not lie with the people with this mentality but rather the majority of them. That look to mooch and freeload, then cry and complain about the limitations that are set forth for people who don't subscribe. And how they should have the same access to the game with their free account. Usually they will turn their arguments to well I would spend money on costumes or mounts in a cash shop, that don't actually effect gameplay.
Let's be real. If people are willing to spend real money on virtual vanity items. Why in hell do they have a problem with spending real money on having total access to the game?
That has always boggled me and is a very valid argument.
Freedom of choice is the answer. When a game is B2P or F2P, you can choose to then spend additional funds on vanity items (to support the game/developers). You can also choose to not play the game and not feel like you're wasting money due to not logging in. Taking a break from the game, for whatever reason, also boils down to a simple choice of not logging in. You also have the option of not spending another dime on the game after initial purchase for B2P, or at all in F2P. You have more personal control over how your money is allocated towards support for the game.
If you want a more real world example. The difference between playing a sub and B2P/F2P can be fairly dramatic in the minds of people. Let's say you're an accountant and are in your busy season. You may only be able to log into the game of your choice a few hours a month. Even though you can easily afford the $15 for access, it feels like wasted money since you're not able to play as much. So, you cancel your sub for the month or two that you're extremely busy. During that period you can't play at all. However, in the same situation for a non-sub game, well it doesn't matter. You can log in whenever you can and not feel like you're money is wasted.
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children (15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
If you were trying to show us the mature side of P2P community i think you just did the opposite.
And those highlighted parts..wow..could you generalise some more? i sub to every MMO i play because i like to have all content open up to me. But as far as community is concerned this topic alone and your post proves that P2P community by default is not full of mature individuals.
I am sure i am not the only one who sees the irony here after going through this thread regarding P2P players calling out F2P crowd and labeling them with all kind of cliches one can think of.
There are only handful of P2P MMOS out there. And i will just give example of one MMO which rules all P2P category to show that only because it is P2P doesn't automatically means that playerbase is mature and full of friendly and hard working people. And that MMO is WOW. Notorious for by far the worst community in any MMO to date.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I'm 39 years old have a full-time job and a pretty busy life that doesn't leave a whole lot of time for gaming.
Still, no matter how often I see it, I just can not get on board with the idea of "it was fine when *I* was younger and had more time. But now that *I* am older and have more responsibility, it's not good anymore for *me*. So now, the games should change to better suit *me*, so that *I* can continue playing as *I* would like to, without having to compromise *my* sense of enjoyment".
Note, I say "you" in the general sense here, because even though I'm responding to the OP, I see this logic argued by so many people that it really doesn't apply to any one individual. It relates to anyone who shares that way of thinking. And there are a lot of you.
It just strikes me as a shamelessly entitled and ego-centric mindset. "My life has changed, so now the games should change to better suit my circumstances".
No. They shouldn't. You should change your expectations and adjust your priorities to suit your new circumstances.
Newsflash folks: It ain't "all about you". You are not the center of the universe. A change in your personal life situation is not a mandate for change in the way games are developed or sold, so you can continue to play as you'd like, and achieve what you'd like, on your own terms, without having to compromise.
So, you used to be able to spend 5 hours straight in-game going after that item you wanted, but don't have that kind of time anymore? Okay fine. So you make that realization, adjust your expectations and accept that, okay, so now it might take you 3 sessions of 2 hours to get that item you wanted. You're still getting it just not in one session. Can't enjoy the game as much that way? Well, then you should reconsider whether it's time to move on and find a new game that better suits your circumstances.
"But it's not fair", some might say?
Of course it's fair. That's called life. It's called growing up and realizing that nothing lasts forever, and you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
Say you play golf every weekend for 8 hours a day because you're single, free and clear. Then you get married and have children which take up more of your time. That doesn't mean the rules of golf need to change because they're no longer convenient to your life situation. It doesn't mean your membership fee for the Country Club should be reduced because "you don't feel it's worth that much anymore". It means you have to adjust your expectations and shift your schedule to work it in, and accept that you're just not gonna be able to play as much as you used to. You might have to cut that game short once in a while and not go the whole 18 holes. That's life.
The other part of that attitude that irks me is how it just completely and utterly ignores and disqualifies those who do still have all that time to pour into a game that you used to. Those people still have a lot of free time. They shouldn't have the opportunity to enjoy these games the way you used to, because you've grown up, become more responsible and can't do it anymore? Really?
Can't justify the subscription fee because you don't feel you have enough time to make it worth while? Then pick another game that better suits your finances. Don't expect a game to change its entire revenue model, just because it no longer suits your sense of value.
Seriously folks. Get over yourselves.
Great post. 100% agree.
And OP... if you don't think something is fun enough to deserve £10/ month of your money then maybe you just don't enjoy it all that much and your time might be better spent looking for something that you actually like?
Look .. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is going to be P2P. Plan is to run the game for more than 10 years with P2P model. NO ONE will change this, no matter how many posts, how many letters, how many petitions you make. Deal with it.
Only way that ARR will ever change to F2P is if it somehow fails. And I believe this WONT happen. If it does, well then good for you F2P players.
Look .. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is going to be P2P. Plan is to run the game for more than 10 years with P2P model. NO ONE will change this, no matter how many posts, how many letters, how many petitions you make. Deal with it.
Only way that ARR will ever change to F2P is if it fails. And I believe this WONT happen. If it does, well then good for you F2P players.
Good day
That is what i have been saying but i guess fans don't even want to think about the possibility. If there is anything i have learned over last 5 years is that there are more chances of a MMO going F2P after release than release asa F2P game.
It is quite possible that FFXIV doesn't get enough players to stay as a P2P game. It is even more likely considering the disaster first version was.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Look .. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is going to be P2P. Plan is to run the game for more than 10 years with P2P model. NO ONE will change this, no matter how many posts, how many letters, how many petitions he makes. This is fact.
Only was that ARR will ever change to F2P is if it fails. And I believe this WONT happen. If it does, well than good for you F2P players.
Good day
Yeah, it's definitely going to be P2P. They were very clear about their "promise." I actually hope this thing is going to be pretty good because I want to get a solid Final Fantasy fix (something that I haven't had for a long time).
There is still the chance that in 6 months, like almost every other major release, they choose to go F2P. I don't think it would be the end of the world for the game, but I can see how it would bother a lot of people that prefer the P2P style.
That is what i have been saying but i guess fans don't even want to think about the possibility. If there is anything i have learned over last 5 years is that there are more chances of a MMO going F2P after release than release asa F2P game.
It is quite possible that FFXIV doesn't get enough players to stay as a P2P game. It is even more likely considering the disaster first version was.
2.0 totaly different game. Thats the true. Lets just wit few months, years and see Game doesnt need 5M subs, few hundereds would be totally enought. FF XI is still subscription based for so long and it doesnt have milions playing it
I am really looking forward to ARR and If its going to be what I am hoping for I am willing to pay even 100euro per month for it
Yow know why we dont want to hear about F2P possibility, because it would mean game somehow failed (as i said) and NO ONE who is excited about ARR DONT want this to happen. Its natural behaviour.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I cant bring myself to pay money for a game that failed 3 years ago. Trials never let you play long enough to know if the game is good. So unless they change how they will make money on this game, I will pass.
Understandable, however it can hardly be even considered the same game. It doesnt even use the same engine.
Still have to buy a game and pay 15 bucks a month to try and game that failed to see if its worth playing now. If it was B2P I would consider it.
Ahhh... it's Nanfoodle... the guy that told me before that he wants to play 'for months' for free to see if he likes a game before paying anything into supporting it.
For 'months'... Because a trial isn't enough to see if he likes it or not.
For 'months'... Because the free month you get with the client purchas isn't enough to see whether he likes it or not.
(To be honest though, I fully suspect that all this 'I want to see if I like a game first' line you come out with is just a veiled 'I want to play as a freeloader because I don't like paying and just prefer to ride on the back of others')
Look Nan, the model is what it is, and that is a sub. You say you are gonna pass if it's a sub? So then PASS already and move on. Having the same conversation about the same revenue model for the same game acording your same personal preferences won't move you closer to where you want to be. So, yeah... pass already.
That is what i have been saying but i guess fans don't even want to think about the possibility. If there is anything i have learned over last 5 years is that there are more chances of a MMO going F2P after release than release asa F2P game.
It is quite possible that FFXIV doesn't get enough players to stay as a P2P game. It is even more likely considering the disaster first version was.
2.0 totaly different game. Thats the true. Lets just wit few months, years and see Game doesnt need 5M subs, few hundereds would be totally enought. FF XI is still subscription based for so long and it doesnt have milions playing it
I am really looking forward to ARR and If its going to be what I am hoping for I am willing to pay even 100euro per month for it
Yow know why we dont want to hear about F2P possibility, because it would mean game somehow failed (as i said) and NO ONE who is excited about ARR DONT want this to happen. Its natural behaviour.
Lets not compare to FFXI please. That was a whole another era and it had already build up its reputation and loyal fanbase. over the years. Also i read in an article that majority of subs for FFXI are from asia and we know how loyal they are to FF series and frankly FFXI was the last and only good FF MMO. Hard to just walk away from that when there is nothing else out there for FF fans.
Those were the easier times when there was hardly any compeition. it is not the same anymore and compeition is cut throat.
2.0 might be different game but it is still FF and players are going to be very cautious after disaster of first version.
I am also looking forward to play the game and sub for it but i am also keeping in touch with reality and possibility that anything can happen after release. nothing is ever set in stone.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Lets not compare to FFXI please. That was a whole another era and it had already build up its reputation and loyal fanbase. over the years. Also i read in an article that majority of subs for FFXI are from asia and we know how loyal they are to FF series and frankly FFXI was the last and only good FF MMO. Hard to just walk away from that when there is nothing else out there for FF fans.
Those were the easier times when there was hardly any compeition. it is not the same anymore and compeition is cut throat.
2.0 might be different game but it is still FF and players are going to be very cautious after disaster of first version.
I am also looking forward to play the game and sub for it but i am also keeping in touch with reality and possibility that anything can happen after release. nothing is ever set in stone.
Good I will be totally happy if the ARR subs were mostly from Asia and the rest from EU/NA. Atleast the game would not become just another western mmorpg. Me personally, I am sick of western mmorpgs released for past few years, really I am and I grew up on these and I have played all of them and have maxxed out characters there. So only the fact the game is developed by Japanese company is damn awesome fact. Japanese are well known for their big passion and dedication to their work!!
Lets not compare to FFXI please. That was a whole another era and it had already build up its reputation and loyal fanbase. over the years. Also i read in an article that majority of subs for FFXI are from asia and we know how loyal they are to FF series and frankly FFXI was the last and only good FF MMO. Hard to just walk away from that when there is nothing else out there for FF fans.
Those were the easier times when there was hardly any compeition. it is not the same anymore and compeition is cut throat.
2.0 might be different game but it is still FF and players are going to be very cautious after disaster of first version.
I am also looking forward to play the game and sub for it but i am also keeping in touch with reality and possibility that anything can happen after release. nothing is ever set in stone.
Good I will be totally happy if the ARR subs were mostly from Asia and the rest from EU/NA. Atleast the game would not become just another western mmorpg. Me personally, I am sick of western mmorpgs released for past few years, really I am and I grew up on these and I have played all of them and have maxxed out characters there. So only the fact the game is developed by Japanese company is damn awesome fact. Japanese are well known for their big passion and dedication to their work!!
Well i don't know about that because Hoshi said it many time while re working on Reborn that this time he will stick to more traditional plastyle of MMOS. And so far what i have read and seen FFXIV is not like FFXI but more like traditional tried and tested western MMOS. They are being very cautious this time and taking familiar route because they can not afford another failure.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Well i don't know about that because Hoshi said it many time while re working on Reborn that this time he will stick to more traditional plastyle of MMOS. And so far what i have read and seen FFXIV is not like FFXI but more like traditional tried and tested western MMOS. They are being very cautious this time and taking familiar route because they can not afford another failure.
I have seen and read almost everything Hoshi said etc. And I dont remeber him saying ''We are going to copy western mmorpgs such as wow, rift, swtor, gw2 etc.'' However I remeber him saying something like ''We are going to release mmorpg that will be able to compete with all the top mmoprgs.'' That doesnt necessarily means its going to be some kind of copy. In my oppinion Smart developer/company should always check competition, see what they do best and wrong and use the best features they have and modify them, make them better and implement them to their game
Lets see what the game looks like after release mkay ?
You forgot to mention those P2P game that went F2P becaues they kinda failed. Their subscription went from 1-2M to 500k and even lower. They had no choice. I bealive they would stay P2P if they could, sadly they couldnt and ONLY way to gain those numbers back was to make the game F2P. And I know what I am talking about, I bought every mmorpg released for past 10 years, in almost every each of them I have one or more maxxed out characters.
WHY it is so big deal to pay SO small amount of money per month for something you play daily several hours a day? If I wanted to do any outdoor activity every day for several hours a day (gym, tenis, golf, w/e) Just please think about it and STOP seeking and demanding ''free'' fun, thats not going to work.
but you said in your first post that even 100k players is good enough for FF14... then why is going from 1m to 500k a no- choice for other mmos? Im pretty sure that if FF14 dont get at least 1m players and retain them they will eventually add freemium. I dont support subs but if FF14:ARR is well done it could be that one mmo i would be glad to pay for monthly(still not every month).
You say why is it so hard to pay a monthly fee for an mmo you play daily for several hours a day? i dont know about the OP but thats one of the reasons i dont support subs. I do not play the same game several hours a day every day. I cant justify the monthly cost and i wont force myself to stick to 1 game so many hours every day just to get my money's worth. And like i said in other thread, if i wont be playing at least 75% of the month i subscribed, i dont subscribe in the first place. And i know i wont play the same game that long.
Lets see how good FF14:ARR is goind to be at launch. That will determine if ill pay for it (i already bought it at 1.0) and so far 2.0 its looking pretty good. A second factor that will determine if i will pay monthly is the generic ! quest system. If thats the only questing system in the game ill most likely step away. I love questing and spend most of the time in any mmo doing that. But after GW2 launched i set my new standard. If any upcoming subscription mmo comes with the generic WoW / Rift / TERA questing i wont pay for it. Improve beyond what GW2 did or you wont get my money.
Comments
Go play f2p games...
I want strawberry ice cream to be chocolate but no matter how many threads I make it just wont happen... I even have very good points.
Still have to buy a game and pay 15 bucks a month to try and game that failed to see if its worth playing now. If it was B2P I would consider it.
Actually I haven't seen any of his points as being good ones.
You do know that beta 4 is open beta you wont buy anything and have time to play it. so that arguement is a silly one to try to make. You would know this by looking at the Final Fantasy XIV:ARR info post its listed there under beta road map.
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
Hum with a 15$ sub fee per month breaks down to just .50cents a day thats cheaper then Alisa Malano seling feed the children
(15$ / 30 days ) As i said before Face Book games are F2P with a Cash Shop and there all lame , take Farmville as an example thats been out forever and still looks like the same pile of junk it was from the start but for some strange reason people spend real money on that game. Take Final Fantasy XI its been out 10 years is Sub. Based and is still going strong . and if your an accountant you should not complain about a 15$ fee for a MMO if you cant pay that then you must be a bad accountant lol. Now if you work at McDonalds i can understand but why force the people who can pay for a better experiance into playing a game that is now F2P. The turn off and why most jump ship from a game that was a Sub. Base that went F2P is the players who payed all there money for a stable game now got cheated by the company because the company cant make the money to pay investors so they make the game free with a CS. I know i would be pissed.
To me the F2P crowd is your typical entitlement types , who dont want to work hard at anything , want everything handed to them , and dont care about the game but will bitch and cry about the game . Your F2P is more of a outcast / solo player, They want to blaze through the story to EG .Always asking for help with the most basic of things like "where is the potion seller" really? your to lazy to walk around town and find him/her its a item shop jeeze. or Where is Central Shroud ? really your to lazy to zone out and find it.
Where your Sub. based Player is your typical hard working , ready to earn there items , enjoy more of the game then just blazing through the story just to get to EG. They typicaly have longer ingame relationships with friends , do more as a group, loves to explore and learn about the town or city there in , learn about the outdoor areas , take the time to see every detail in the game down to the moths flying around a street light.
I wonder how many out there agree with this? Im sure i am not alone in my assesments
I noticed this from going from XI to V1. New people to XIV V1 who just did not understand the game and could not do anything basic.
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
^ A thousand times this. Bottom line, P2P will always be higher quality in every imaginable way. Don't like subs? Good, you're probably not the kind of player someone who enjoyed ffxi or V1 wants around anyway. We will be just fine without you, promise
Which P2P game is higher quality in every imaginable way?
Agreed.
You dont want to pay sub? So just move on and find different game! Stop cryeing an demand change... Do you go to store and ask for free or cheaper stuff just because you dont know if it taste good? I dont.
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Constantly belitting others for their choice in video games seems like a far more heiness crime than someone asking questions about where to buy potions over chat. You seem like the last person I would ever want to be part of a community that I actually enjoyed being with. Your post only serves to reinforce the idea that P2P people tend to be just as vocal and vitriolic as F2P people.
And your generalizations are ridicuolous besides that. As if in P2P games people aren't constantly asking stupid questions. People game hop all the time in P2P games as well. Look at WoW. It probably has the most turnover of any game in existence. And you have no clue about how long people's relationships in either type of pricing model last. You are making shit up.
And XIV was horrible. It wasn't that people didn't understand it, it was that people understood how horrible it was. Although, if you get extreme amounts of enjoyment from watching moths around a street light, I can maybe understand why you liked it. It did have pretty good graphics. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there are people that do that exact same thing in another F2P game called LotRO where people are RPing and enjoying the game world just fine.
If you were trying to show us the mature side of P2P community i think you just did the opposite.
And those highlighted parts..wow..could you generalise some more? i sub to every MMO i play because i like to have all content open up to me. But as far as community is concerned this topic alone and your post proves that P2P community by default is not full of mature individuals.
I am sure i am not the only one who sees the irony here after going through this thread regarding P2P players calling out F2P crowd and labeling them with all kind of cliches one can think of.
There are only handful of P2P MMOS out there. And i will just give example of one MMO which rules all P2P category to show that only because it is P2P doesn't automatically means that playerbase is mature and full of friendly and hard working people. And that MMO is WOW. Notorious for by far the worst community in any MMO to date.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Great post. 100% agree.
And OP... if you don't think something is fun enough to deserve £10/ month of your money then maybe you just don't enjoy it all that much and your time might be better spent looking for something that you actually like?
This thread became just usless dicussion ..
Look .. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is going to be P2P. Plan is to run the game for more than 10 years with P2P model. NO ONE will change this, no matter how many posts, how many letters, how many petitions you make. Deal with it.
Only way that ARR will ever change to F2P is if it somehow fails. And I believe this WONT happen. If it does, well then good for you F2P players.
Good day
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
That is what i have been saying but i guess fans don't even want to think about the possibility. If there is anything i have learned over last 5 years is that there are more chances of a MMO going F2P after release than release asa F2P game.
It is quite possible that FFXIV doesn't get enough players to stay as a P2P game. It is even more likely considering the disaster first version was.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yeah, it's definitely going to be P2P. They were very clear about their "promise." I actually hope this thing is going to be pretty good because I want to get a solid Final Fantasy fix (something that I haven't had for a long time).
There is still the chance that in 6 months, like almost every other major release, they choose to go F2P. I don't think it would be the end of the world for the game, but I can see how it would bother a lot of people that prefer the P2P style.
2.0 totaly different game. Thats the true. Lets just wit few months, years and see
Game doesnt need 5M subs, few hundereds would be totally enought. FF XI is still subscription based for so long and it doesnt have milions playing it 
I am really looking forward to ARR and If its going to be what I am hoping for I am willing to pay even 100euro per month for it
Yow know why we dont want to hear about F2P possibility, because it would mean game somehow failed (as i said) and NO ONE who is excited about ARR DONT want this to happen. Its natural behaviour.
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
TL;DR
FFXIV is gonna be awesome. End of story.
Nope .. wrong
FFXIV ARR is going to be freaking awesome. End of story.
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Ahhh... it's Nanfoodle... the guy that told me before that he wants to play 'for months' for free to see if he likes a game before paying anything into supporting it.
For 'months'... Because a trial isn't enough to see if he likes it or not.
For 'months'... Because the free month you get with the client purchas isn't enough to see whether he likes it or not.
(To be honest though, I fully suspect that all this 'I want to see if I like a game first' line you come out with is just a veiled 'I want to play as a freeloader because I don't like paying and just prefer to ride on the back of others')
Look Nan, the model is what it is, and that is a sub. You say you are gonna pass if it's a sub? So then PASS already and move on. Having the same conversation about the same revenue model for the same game acording your same personal preferences won't move you closer to where you want to be. So, yeah... pass already.
Lets not compare to FFXI please. That was a whole another era and it had already build up its reputation and loyal fanbase. over the years. Also i read in an article that majority of subs for FFXI are from asia and we know how loyal they are to FF series and frankly FFXI was the last and only good FF MMO. Hard to just walk away from that when there is nothing else out there for FF fans.
Those were the easier times when there was hardly any compeition. it is not the same anymore and compeition is cut throat.
2.0 might be different game but it is still FF and players are going to be very cautious after disaster of first version.
I am also looking forward to play the game and sub for it but i am also keeping in touch with reality and possibility that anything can happen after release. nothing is ever set in stone.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Good
I will be totally happy if the ARR subs were mostly from Asia and the rest from EU/NA. Atleast the game would not become just another western mmorpg. Me personally, I am sick of western mmorpgs released for past few years, really I am and I grew up on these and I have played all of them and have maxxed out characters there. So only the fact the game is developed by Japanese company is damn awesome fact. Japanese are well known for their big passion and dedication to their work!!
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Well i don't know about that because Hoshi said it many time while re working on Reborn that this time he will stick to more traditional plastyle of MMOS. And so far what i have read and seen FFXIV is not like FFXI but more like traditional tried and tested western MMOS. They are being very cautious this time and taking familiar route because they can not afford another failure.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Wow proof that a company can charge us twice for the same thing and get away with I.t to thunderous applause!!!!!
Dont get me wrong they tried to help us by offering us free time then closing the servers down while still charging us !!
I had faith in square Enix dropped almost 200$ into the game and sub to complete and utter rubbish.
Its a shame though I fell for the nostelgia of older times.
Current games;
Star treck online
Rift
Eve online
Firefall
I have seen and read almost everything Hoshi said etc. And I dont remeber him saying ''We are going to copy western mmorpgs such as wow, rift, swtor, gw2 etc.'' However I remeber him saying something like ''We are going to release mmorpg that will be able to compete with all the top mmoprgs.'' That doesnt necessarily means its going to be some kind of copy. In my oppinion Smart developer/company should always check competition, see what they do best and wrong and use the best features they have and modify them, make them better and implement them to their game
Lets see what the game looks like after release
mkay ? 
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
but you said in your first post that even 100k players is good enough for FF14... then why is going from 1m to 500k a no- choice for other mmos? Im pretty sure that if FF14 dont get at least 1m players and retain them they will eventually add freemium. I dont support subs but if FF14:ARR is well done it could be that one mmo i would be glad to pay for monthly(still not every month).
You say why is it so hard to pay a monthly fee for an mmo you play daily for several hours a day? i dont know about the OP but thats one of the reasons i dont support subs. I do not play the same game several hours a day every day. I cant justify the monthly cost and i wont force myself to stick to 1 game so many hours every day just to get my money's worth. And like i said in other thread, if i wont be playing at least 75% of the month i subscribed, i dont subscribe in the first place. And i know i wont play the same game that long.
Lets see how good FF14:ARR is goind to be at launch. That will determine if ill pay for it (i already bought it at 1.0) and so far 2.0 its looking pretty good. A second factor that will determine if i will pay monthly is the generic ! quest system. If thats the only questing system in the game ill most likely step away. I love questing and spend most of the time in any mmo doing that. But after GW2 launched i set my new standard. If any upcoming subscription mmo comes with the generic WoW / Rift / TERA questing i wont pay for it. Improve beyond what GW2 did or you wont get my money.