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  • EtherignisEtherignis philadelphia, PAPosts: 246Member
    I like the p2p model for ffxiv
  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member
    The only thing I can say is square enix has had a sub. Based game out on the market 10years now and its still going. I would think they know what there doing with xiv arr being subscription . This is not there first rodeo

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  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member

    What I have taken for the OP and his responses. I want to be able to freeload and not have any real limitations compared to the people who choose to pay for it. Give them like costume perks.

     

    My opinion, thanks but not thanks. Keep this game pay to play. If they want to add a LIMITED trial later down the road that's fine.

  • TreabhairTreabhair New Port Richey, FLPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by DarknessReign
    The only thing I can say is square enix has had a sub. Based game out on the market 10years now and its still going. I would think they know what there doing with xiv arr being subscription . This is not there first rodeo

     

    As I mentioned, FFXI was my first mmo and I'm well aware of FFXIs begginings and current state. If SE can find as much early success with a subscription model for FFXIV:ARR as they did with FFXI, then good for them, though it may not neccisarily be good for me or others who won't or can't pay a sub fee for various reasons.

     

    My thoughts were merely an attempt to come up with a way to please a wider audience than to state that SE won't find success with the model they've chosen.

     

    Unfortunately all I've managed to find was another reason not to play P2P mmo's and ironically, it's one of the main reasons many advocates of P2P have such disdain towards f2p/b2p games. Hopefully FFXIV's community won't suffer from the same scuff that marked the otherwise fantastic FFXI community.

  • TreabhairTreabhair New Port Richey, FLPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by cybertrucker

    What I have taken for the OP and his responses. I want to be able to freeload and not have any real limitations compared to the people who choose to pay for it. Give them like costume perks.

     

    My opinion, thanks but not thanks. Keep this game pay to play. If they want to add a LIMITED trial later down the road that's fine.

    Reading helps.

    TL:DR

    I'm advocating a highly limited environment for f2p players, but not a p2w model, so that more people might be able to enjoy this game without hurting the p2p players experience.

     

    You're welcome.

  • MargraveMargrave Knoxville, TNPosts: 634Member Uncommon
    I would be thrilled with just a trial of some sort, maybe through the newbie area, or level limited in some way?
  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    Reading helps.

    TL:DR

    I'm advocating a highly limited environment for f2p players, but not a p2w model, so that more people might be able to enjoy this game without hurting the p2p players experience.

     

    You're welcome.

    You have the benchmark tool dont you ? Thats kinda highly limited enviroment for F2P players.

     

    Problem solved :)

     

    Tell me, how this similar scenario to yours but in real life would work?

    ''I would love to go and spend every week on Bora Bora or Maldives island for free, so I am advocating higly limited acess so just put me into different beach/hotel, so I might be able to enjoy these vacations without hurting paying customers experience.''

     

    xD

     

  • TreabhairTreabhair New Port Richey, FLPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    Reading helps.

    TL:DR

    I'm advocating a highly limited environment for f2p players, but not a p2w model, so that more people might be able to enjoy this game without hurting the p2p players experience.

     

    You're welcome.

    You have the benchmark tool dont you ? Thats kinda highly limited enviroment for F2P players.

     

    Problem solved :)

     

    Tell me, how this similar scenario to yours but in real life would work?

    ''I would love to go and spend every week on Bora Bora or Maldives island for free, so I am advocating higly limited acess to them so just put me different beach/hotel, so I might be able to enjoy these vacations without hurnting paying customers experience.''

     

    xD

     

     

    I do appreciate the humorous attitude you take, even if you don't really agree with me at all.

    Anyways, to answer your question,

    En Masse, Cryptic, PWE, Midway, and Arena Net are all real world companies making real money. So how would it work in the real world? Well I guess it would work buy making a product free to play and charging for extras, except with the trend in most f2p, the people playing for free would be the ones being catered too. At least my idea gives priority to the subscribers.

    EDIT: If you want an example closer to your quoted text story, It's called tourism.

    The hotel, restaraunts, souvenirs are the extras. The location is the game. You don't charge people to enter the location, but rather to use the extras. You attract people to come to your location so that you can sell these things and services to your customers.

     

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of success or failure FFXIV:ARR is before any consideration to change is given a thought. Though if they don't do as well as they planned and are forced to try a different revenue model or scrap the title altogether, what concern is it of mine if they go the way of the casual f2p?

  • BlueTiger33BlueTiger33 La Crosse, WIPosts: 158Member
    I really lose a lot of respect for a game or franchise when it goes F2P. You get the fealing like you are walking in a sewer and those around you are from the sewer. Now, if the F2P model is built in from day one I can understand the continunance as said players are needed for the paying players to pay their dollars.

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  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    I do appreciate the humorous attitude you take, even if you don't really agree with me at all.

    Anyways, to answer your question,

    En Masse, Cryptic, PWE, Midway, and Arena Net are all real world companies making real money. So how would it work in the real world? Well I guess it would work buy making a product free to play and charging for extras, except with the trend in most f2p, the people playing for free would be the ones being catered too. At least my idea gives priority to the subscribers.

     

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of success or failure FFXIV:ARR is before any consideration to change is given a thought. Though if they don't do as well as they planned and are forced to try a different revenue model or scrap the title altogether, what concern is it of mine if they go the way of the casual f2p?

    I am pretty sure this game will be sucessfull, It doesnt matter if they reach 500k or 5M sub. All what matters is what goals company and director/producer Naoki Yoshida are aiming to. And If you are following them/him closely, you have nothing to be afraight in this .

    I hope this game with this big potential, really dedicated developer team working on it with heart and soul (they are Japanese afterall) will never turn just into ''cash cow'' where pleasing ''everyone'', in other words no one matters.

     

    What concern is it of mine if you or any other poor/casual/etc. dont have money or time to play the game? I DONT CARE :) More loot for me and less stress on the servers !

  • TreabhairTreabhair New Port Richey, FLPosts: 20Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    I do appreciate the humorous attitude you take, even if you don't really agree with me at all.

    Anyways, to answer your question,

    En Masse, Cryptic, PWE, Midway, and Arena Net are all real world companies making real money. So how would it work in the real world? Well I guess it would work buy making a product free to play and charging for extras, except with the trend in most f2p, the people playing for free would be the ones being catered too. At least my idea gives priority to the subscribers.

     

    I guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of success or failure FFXIV:ARR is before any consideration to change is given a thought. Though if they don't do as well as they planned and are forced to try a different revenue model or scrap the title altogether, what concern is it of mine if they go the way of the casual f2p?

    I am pretty sure this game will be sucessfull, It doesnt matter if they reach 500k or 5M sub. All what matters is what goals company and director/producer Naoki Yoshida are aiming to.

     

    I hope this game with this big potential, really dedicated developer team working on it with hearths and souls (they are Japanese afterall) will never turn just into ''cash cow'' where pleasing ''everyone'', in other words no one matters.

     

    What concern is it of mine that you dont have money to play the game or time? I DONT CARE :) more loot for me

    All that matters is that they make money. Square Enix is in financial trouble and they can't afford to cater to a game and it's players if it's bleeding money instead of making it.

    I don't doubt that the game will find success in Japan with this model, but if it doesn't find the same success here, SE could very well go the way of SEGA, and simply pull the plug on international support rather than lose more money trying to cater to outside players. That or casual f2p mode it.

     

    Also, it may be a surprise to you, but not everyone who plays f2p games are poor and don't have money or time. As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. Also, if FFXI and some of the posters here are anything to go by, p2p attracts elitists / I'm better than other people mentalities.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    All that matters is that they make money. Square Enix is in financial trouble and they can't afford to cater to a game and it's players if it's bleeding money instead of making it.

    I don't doubt that the game will find success in Japan with this model, but if it doesn't find the same success here, SE could very well go the way of SEGA, and simply pull the plug on international support rather than lose more money trying to cater to outside players. That or casual f2p mode it.

     

    Also, it may be a surprise to you, but not everyone who plays f2p games are poor and don't have money or time. As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. Also, if FFXI and some of the posters here are anything to go by, p2p attracts elitists / I'm better than other people mentalities.

    Man just stop throwing this crap on us please xD ''Square Enix is in financial troubles so they should give us F2P acess or they are doomed'' Whats next? Will you post theirs annual balance sheet of previous years or what ? xD

    All what you care about is not paying a cent and playing the game for free. Nothing else.

     

    Here is big suprise for you xD Not going to happen and posting here on these forums wont ever help you. So either you pay the sub, dont play the game, or buy Square Enix so you can change it to F2P :) thats my advice

     

    jezus .. you dont like playing with the thought that you are spending money to waste your time in your back of you mind but you are willing to post the whole day/evening begging and making suggestion how F2P would be better for the game. If you spent these hours working instead of posting here, you could have already paid few months of subscription.

    Good night to you sir.

  • BlueTiger33BlueTiger33 La Crosse, WIPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    All that matters is that they make money. Square Enix is in financial trouble and they can't afford to cater to a game and it's players if it's bleeding money instead of making it.

    I don't doubt that the game will find success in Japan with this model, but if it doesn't find the same success here, SE could very well go the way of SEGA, and simply pull the plug on international support rather than lose more money trying to cater to outside players. That or casual f2p mode it.

     

    Also, it may be a surprise to you, but not everyone who plays f2p games are poor and don't have money or time. As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. Also, if FFXI and some of the posters here are anything to go by, p2p attracts elitists / I'm better than other people mentalities.

    Man just stop throwing this crap on us please xD ''Square Enix is in financial troubles so they should give us F2P acess or they are doomed'' Whats next? Will you post theirs annual balance sheet of previous years or what ? xD

    All what you care about is not paying a cent and playing the game for free. Nothing else.

     

    Here is big suprise for you xD Not going to happen and posting here on these forums wont ever help you. So either you pay the sub, dont play the game, or buy Square Enix so you can make it F2P :)

    jezus .. you dont like playing with spending money to waste my time but you are posting the whole evening on these forums begging and making suggestion how F2P would be better for the game. If you spent these hours working instead of posting here, you could have already paid few months of subscription.

    Good night to you sir.

     

    Epic. Valid points all around. "As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. " That can be taken so many ways LOL...nothing which paints a good light on you.

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    I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
    My Blog
  • GhernGhern Shingle Springs, CAPosts: 134Member Uncommon

    I thought I have read on this forum that there will be a free trial. I hope so. I have never played a FF game. I would like to try it out and am a big believer in sub based games promoting a better community.

    I will not try it blindly though. I am not just throwing my money at SE hoping that I will like the product.

    A free trial would be perfect.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Ghern

    I thought I have read on this forum that there will be a free trial. I hope so. I have never played a FF game. I would like to try it out and am a big believer in sub based games promoting a better community.

    I will not try it blindly though. I am not just throwing my money at SE hoping that I will like the product.

    A free trial would be perfect.

    There will be open beta for everyone (start of summer my guess). And those characters created in this last stage of beta wont be deleted after launch :)

    Not sure about trial but I dont see reason why not.

  • Snowdon_CloudripperSnowdon_Cloudripper Chickasha, OKPosts: 584Member

    Ok i will post this again this is a direct quote from Yoshi-P himself  and you can find the link in the Final Fantasy XIV:ARR info thread its link #12

     

    With A Realm Reborn, Yoshida is certainly playing a long game, but we asked him if – in a world now obsessed with the notion of free-to-play, sticking to a subscription model is a potential mistake waiting to happen.

    He replied, “The main reason why we haven’t decided to take the free-to-play option is that, at the game’s original launch, it didn’t live up to expectations and it let down a lot of fans. We lost the trust of fans who had followed us across our 25-year history. We want to regain that trust and to deliver on past promises.

    “One of the promises we originally stated was that we would release the game with a subscription model. Players will be able to play it 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days in the year if they paid a subscription fee. So to regain the trust of our players we must of course fulfil this promise. Right now we believe that to be more important than any kind of business decision.

    “The other thing is that – depending on what kind of game you have – its hard to say which model is better. Is free-to-play better? Are subscriptions better? It just really depends, and it’s hard to say which one is better.

    “The last thing is that our aim is to make an MMO, and a lot of companies do their development for MMOs by getting money from investors. Then the investors want their money back, so if the game doesn’t make enough money or doesn’t have enough users, then what do we do?

    “We’d have to pay our investors back, and free-to-play is an option to get that money back to investors quickly. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is a product that is independent to Square-Enix. All of the money’s coming from us, so we had more time to put it into what we wanted to do. We’re not in a rush to pay anyone back.”

     

     

    Now What Yoshi is saying makes total sense , Take TERA was it or was it not Sub fee until the 5th of Febuary. Now ask was the game a success ? Now the game is F2P with a cash shop why do you think that is? Well if you take what Yoshi here said it means a game like TERA has investors who want there money and a fast track to pay off investors is a cash shop and a free game. A game going free IS NOT a good thing its a faild game so much so it is now Free. What is the difference between TERA and a FaceBook Game ....... Nothing there free to play and have a cash shop and are usualy really lame unless your female and spen 24/7 on farmville ( my wife is a great example of this )

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  • TreabhairTreabhair New Port Richey, FLPosts: 20Member

    What I got out of it was that F2P is a quick way to make money, but they made a promise for a sub model and since they don't have investors knocking at their doors for a return on money spent, they can keep that original promise. No where does he insuate that f2p = poor quality. A poor quality f2p will do poorly monetarily after all. I currently play GW2 and while I'm not entirely happy with it, it's certainly not a bad game, and I've spent $25 on it in the 2 months I've played. I believe in Anet, especially after playing GW1, and though GW2 isn't where I would like it to be, I want to support the developer so that it might eventually make it there.

    To me, it sounds as if Yoshida sees the F2P market as completely viable, even preferable if profits are what you're looking for. But as he said, the team made a promise to all the other pre ARR FFXIV players (which I was a part of from the beginning and while it remained free) that it would eventually come with a sub model. While I personally think that's a silly reason to keep it, I'm not Yoshida, and we come from entirely different cultures and generations to boot. But I do very much respect his dedication to the game...

    ... which is why I wish I could play and spend $25 within two months (if it is as good as I hope it is). But I quit FFXI because I couldn't enjoy it anymore, not because of the game, but because of the looming monthly subscription. It's like if facebook or your other favorite social media sites and forums decided to require you to subscribe to them. They're a great way to be irresponsible and put off things you should be doing and most of us anyways are guilty of doing just that from time to time, but would you pay to do so?

    If subscriptions don't make you feel the same way, then great, I'm glad. But they just leave me with a bad feeling and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Certainly not if you simply take into account people who prefer f2p for their own reasons.

  • aliton12aliton12 San Diego, CAPosts: 18Member
    Nah ... Never happen F2P .... Final Fantasy XI been going good for long time ... It will be same.... I proimse you it never happen. 
  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,659Member Uncommon
    Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.

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  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.

    or maybe they are not that greedy like every other western model company :)

     

    In this scenario. Traditional P2P is better than modern F2P. This goes for many many cases, not every modern thing in present means its automaticaly better than it was before. Some might say that world was better 20/30/80 years ago than it is now, etc. etc ..

    And I think country as Japan with traditions is better than some modern state with his modern whatever crap :D

     

    So I would rather play the game developed by traditional company where I am sure that they preserve their goals and promises .. than playing mmorpg developed by modern company and have to worry about every patch and change that breaks their promises just because modern NA/EU players want that change to happen. Due to ''I want everything for free and without effort mentality'' that NA/EU players usually have.

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member

    Creating games to suit everyone doesnt work imo, games should have some niche to attract and suit a particular crowd.  GW2 was the second coming, the sales pitch had everyone believing it was the game for them,  b2p, f2p call it what you like, but it never held the torch for many people for very long.

    The OP says he has a family now and doesnt have the hours he spent in his younger days to play for long lengthy hrs at a time, neither do I and many other players, but I would still prefer the p2p model over f2p any day.  Even if I play a few hrs a week, thats still worth 10 - 15 bucks entertainment value knowing that I can obtain the full game and contents without competing with my wallet against those who have bigger wallets in the f2p model.  I bet my bottom dollar that a lot of gw2 players have spent more on gems and vanity items since release than they would have paid a monthly sub.

     

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Treabhair

    What I got out of it was that F2P is a quick way to make money, but they made a promise for a sub model and since they don't have investors knocking at their doors for a return on money spent, they can keep that original promise. No where does he insuate that f2p = poor quality. A poor quality f2p will do poorly monetarily after all. I currently play GW2 and while I'm not entirely happy with it, it's certainly not a bad game, and I've spent $25 on it in the 2 months I've played. I believe in Anet, especially after playing GW1, and though GW2 isn't where I would like it to be, I want to support the developer so that it might eventually make it there.

    To me, it sounds as if Yoshida sees the F2P market as completely viable, even preferable if profits are what you're looking for. But as he said, the team made a promise to all the other pre ARR FFXIV players (which I was a part of from the beginning and while it remained free) that it would eventually come with a sub model. While I personally think that's a silly reason to keep it, I'm not Yoshida, and we come from entirely different cultures and generations to boot. But I do very much respect his dedication to the game...

    ... which is why I wish I could play and spend $25 within two months (if it is as good as I hope it is). But I quit FFXI because I couldn't enjoy it anymore, not because of the game, but because of the looming monthly subscription. It's like if facebook or your other favorite social media sites and forums decided to require you to subscribe to them. They're a great way to be irresponsible and put off things you should be doing and most of us anyways are guilty of doing just that from time to time, but would you pay to do so?

    If subscriptions don't make you feel the same way, then great, I'm glad. But they just leave me with a bad feeling and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Certainly not if you simply take into account people who prefer f2p for their own reasons.

    Yoshi-P's "promise for a sub model" sounds like a tremendous cop-out reason. In the original quote he acknowledged that they lost the trust of many fans, but believing a sub model will regain trust is folly. I too am playing GW2, and while it does have issues, I've spent $40 on top of the box cost over the course of the past 6 months. I imagine that there are many others like me out there. However, if there was an associated sub cost to GW2, I might not have even gone back after taking a break initially. Even though $15 isn't a lot of money, it is still a bit of a barrier to many.

    SE is quite obviously very out of touch with their western markets, which has been very vocal in their distrust of SE for awhile now. FFXIII isn't a particularly fondly remembered title, and FFXIV has left a terrible taste in many mouths. Adding a sub isn't going to be viewed as an act of trust, but as another attempt to do some cash grabbing. SE has fallen from grace, imo, and their titles aren't launch day purchases anymore.

    I fully believe that their decision to attempt to run as a sub model isn't going to be well received with the general gaming community, and that they will have to turn to the B2P or F2P model within a year, that or limp along until a shut down. I hope I'm wrong, but history looks like it might be repeating.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member

    -sighs- so much bias and ass sniffing, so little reason and logic...

    Japan as a country isn't better than any other, Hell in some respects they're more fucked up ( try looking up cannibals currently living in Japan for shits and giggles... and then look up adult japanese gameshows).

     

    Someone in the thread said you get what you paid for in P2P while in F2P you have to be a wallet warrior of sorts which tbh is true and false in two ways, firstly in bad P2P and bad F2P you're gonna be a wallet warrior either way and secondly and most importantly: a fool and his money are soon parted, it doesn't matter how or when, Hell you'll be hard pressed to find a P2P game out right now that doesn't have a cash shop in it already.

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  • pmw4friendpmw4friend lawrenceville, GAPosts: 63Member
    Idc if the game is FTP or PVP just as long as the game is good. If it's pvp and it sucks then F it! I lost my money but if it's pvp and it good then AWESOME! Now if it's FTP then WHATEVER!
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.

    or maybe they are not that greedy like every other western model company :)

     

    In this scenario. Traditional P2P is better than modern F2P. This goes for many many cases, not every modern thing in present means its automaticaly better than it was before. Some might say that world was better 20/30/80 years ago than it is now, etc. etc ..

    And I think country as Japan with traditions is better than some modern state with his modern whatever crap :D

     

    So I would rather play the game developed by traditional company where I am sure that they preserve their goals and promises .. than playing mmorpg developed by modern company and have to worry about every patch and change that breaks their promises just because modern NA/EU players want that change to happen. Due to ''I want everything for free and without effort mentality'' that NA/EU players usually have.

    It is not about being greedy it is about running a viable business. WOW and RIft both are still managing sub based model. Why? because they have enough players to keep their business model afloat.

    Honor and pride doesn't pay the bills. if  Reborn tanked like previous version they will have only two options either shut the game down for good this time or go F2P / B2P.

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