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And the winner of the console wars is... PC???

tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon

So it seems that after trying to detach consoles from the PC-architechture all manufacturers are now making a full turn and returning to the one architechture that has been marching on for the last 25 years, pretty much unchanged.

I predict a new golden age of PC and console gaming. No more sorry ports that stutter and kill your computer/console. A developer from Epic Games commented that they finished porting the UE4 demo from PC to the new PS4 as a "side project", whereas the UE3 took several work years to port onto PS3.

All hail the mighty PC! The reports of thy death have apparently been greatly exaggerated, again.

 

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Comments

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    The PS3 was a pain to develop/port for. Xbox 360 on the other hand is much better. 

    But I don't think PC gaming is going to experience any significant growth... Casual games on smart devices are becoming more and more popular. The major thing that PC had going on for it was that the old consoles were very dated and the graphics were looking a bit tired. This is not going to be the case once the new consoles come out. Most games will loook much better on the consoles for a while than they would on your PC. But the major problem with the PC is that a lot of great games are console exclusives. There are tons of AAA releases which never make it to the PC yet there are very few AAA releases which don't make it to the consoles (MMOs, RTS). But it looks that MMOs are making their way to the consoles now that they have the juice to handle them.

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  • Mondo80Mondo80 Newington, CTPosts: 189Member Uncommon
    ALL games have to be programed first on a PC before they are encoded to run on a console.  The DEV kits that are used to program such games are just modified PCs that cannot be upgraded because they have to match the system specs of the console.

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  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    I think the point the op is making is the PS4 is a pc.  It has an amd cpu, amd graphics card, memory, hd.  It should be very easy to port games to and from.

    I agree things look good for pcs (laptops not so much .rip.)

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ryowulf

    I think the point the op is making is the PS4 is a pc.  It has an amd cpu, amd graphics card, memory, hd.  It should be very easy to port games to and from.

    I agree things look good for pcs (laptops not so much .rip.)

    The PlayStation 3 had an Nvidia video card.  The Xbox 360 had an AMD video card.  The high performance graphics architectures are the ones used for PCs.  It's been that way for a long time.  Consoles aren't high enough volume products to justify developing a new CPU architecture and graphics architecture and memory standard and so forth from scratch.  Rather, they've always gone and bought parts of architectures developed for other purposes.  You make some modifications so that you're not just using off-the-shelf parts, but you're not inventing all of the hardware from scratch, either.

    What is perhaps different this time is that the consoles are using the x86 CPU architecture that PCs have long been based on.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,783Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    But the major problem with the PC is that a lot of great games are console exclusives. There are tons of AAA releases which never make it to the PC yet there are very few AAA releases which don't make it to the consoles (MMOs, RTS). But it looks that MMOs are making their way to the consoles now that they have the juice to handle them.

    The new hardware doesn't do anything to change the reasons why developers would in the past have sometimes wanted not to port a game even if it were free.  Consoles are closed platforms, which makes piracy much harder.  If you port your console game to PC, it gets pirated a bunch and that can drive down sales of the console game.

    Meanwhile, consoles take a cut of revenue from whatever you sell.  If you're making an online game, then needing to connect to your servers to play the game gives you built-in anti-piracy protections.  Make the game PC-only and you get to keep all of the revenue that your players pay to play your game.  Port it to consoles and Sony or Microsoft or whoever takes a considerable chunk of it.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Definitely!

    Both XBox and PS4 are now essentially PCs. There are considerably fewer console only titles now than in the PS1 and PS2 era. PS3 was SUCH a waste, nothing hardly ever was worth buying it for PS3, when I think how MANY cool PS2 games I had.

    I certainly won't buy any consoles anymore.

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  • FARGIN_WARFARGIN_WAR New York, NYPosts: 166Member
    Yeah I never saw the sense in paying for what is essentially an intentionally limited PC. They put me in mind of those expensive yet stripped down sports cars that you can only drive on a race track.

    image

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  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member

    I prefer console games depending on the genre. Sports titles I couldn't see myself playing on a PC. MMO's are something else, I don't see myself playing Street Fighter or Killer Instinct on PC either.. Shooters I can go either way, depends on what I'm looking for..

    I guess basically I'm just here to say there's still a market for consoles in gaming. They still got a customer here...

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    All hail the mighty PC! The reports of thy death have apparently been greatly exaggerated, again.

     

    I never really understood the clamoring amongst some that was ever goinf to happen. Didn't really make a lot of sense if you thought about it.

    On a good note after the PS3 plummets a bit more in price I may actually finally pick one up. Wouldn't mind checking out some of their games like the Uncharted titles and Heavy Rain.

    I'm actually more curious about what the Steam Box will be about through to be honest than I am the next Xbox or PS4.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    All hail the mighty PC! The reports of thy death have apparently been greatly exaggerated, again.

     

    I never really understood the clamoring amongst some that was ever goinf to happen. Didn't really make a lot of sense if you thought about it.

    On a good note after the PS3 plummets a bit more in price I may actually finally pick one up. Wouldn't mind checking out some of their games like the Uncharted titles and Heavy Rain.

    I'm actually more curious about what the Steam Box will be about through to be honest than I am the next Xbox or PS4.

    You should save a little and just buy the ps4, it will have streaming of games where you will be not only able to play ps3 games but ps2 and ps1 games. Its kinda like the Wii U in that regard, the console before it becomes completely obsolete because you can play all the games of the previous console with it in some way.

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Consoles are noob PCs for people who don´t even have a clue how to update a graphics driver

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  • MuffinStumpMuffinStump Frankfort, KYPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    Console vs PC thread #2,590,012

  • FateFatalityFateFatality AnalholePosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    The PS3 was a pain to develop/port for. Xbox 360 on the other hand is much better. 

    But I don't think PC gaming is going to experience any significant growth... Casual games on smart devices are becoming more and more popular. The major thing that PC had going on for it was that the old consoles were very dated and the graphics were looking a bit tired. This is not going to be the case once the new consoles come out. Most games will loook much better on the consoles for a while than they would on your PC. But the major problem with the PC is that a lot of great games are console exclusives. There are tons of AAA releases which never make it to the PC yet there are very few AAA releases which don't make it to the consoles (MMOs, RTS). But it looks that MMOs are making their way to the consoles now that they have the juice to handle them.

    wrong!!!! PC is the best platform for gaming peroid exclusives may or may be good but don't mean anything

    the specs are 1.84 Teraflop/sec with AMD 8core prob @ 1.6 to 1.8GHZ using AMD CPU not the best.

    on top of that if you wanna know what they really useing they are using GPGPU Tech to port most of graphics and AI or w.e they can to GPU and less on CPU also like point out GPU is infact a 7970M mobile it TDP is only 100W makeing it console friendly and its performance is between Dekstop HD 7850 to HD 7870. mid range graphics not bad but PC is still better GTX 580+ is roughly 25% better performance wise. if GPGPU tech is used then it be used on PC as well again produceing better visuals then Console even with last gen flag ship cards that alone means more CPU for other important things

    also only 4 cores will be used for console for gaming and rest of 4 are used for back ground stuff such as downloads  steaming  share functions ect ect

     

    So point is that it's a PC with no upgrade path Nvidia is already about to announce next gen GPU 700 Family they just realsed the Titan so not long now again furthur pushing PC ahead of Console we be looking at roughly 80 to 100% more GPU power also Point out if AMD CPU is what i said it is a simpe Intel 4 Core CPU @ 3.3+ GHZ from i5 or i7 fam sandybridge and ivrybridge is also more effective then mare 8 core low GHZ plus there is also overclocking on CPU such as i5 2500k Clocking 4,5GHZ easy.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MuffinStump

    Console vs PC thread #2,590,012

     

    No no! You don't understand! It's going to be slow PC (console) vs. fast PC (a real PC) from now on! :)

     

    But on a more serious note, I can't see any downsides that the consoles and PCs are coming closer together regarding their architechture. At least not from the PC gamer point of view.

     

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,212Member Uncommon
    The biggest problem PCs and consoles face is getting people to upgrade is an absolute shit world economy. Our games would look and play a lot better if everyone could afford to update their hardware but that isn't going to happen.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • FateFatalityFateFatality AnalholePosts: 85Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by MuffinStump

    Console vs PC thread #2,590,012

     

    No no! You don't understand! It's going to be slow PC (console) vs. fast PC (a real PC) from now on! :)

     

    But on a more serious note, I can't see any downsides that the consoles and PCs are coming closer together regarding their architechture. At least not from the PC gamer point of view.

     

    its got its pro and cons

    Pro: better optimization for pc

    Better graphics standards on all games

    Con:

    Devs only focusing on console just like Ps3 and Xbox360 console porting  not added any graphical enchements for PC users

    ^ this is important issue i have and ,my concerns are not added the more features for PC users peroid .closed hardware has its draw backs Crysis 3 just got out and its looks great but could be better but it comes down to really pushing the PC and not just bad devs crytek are not good its been proven that shitty coding is bad for PC, BUT developers now need to up there game due to fact that PS4 is more PC sooo if they cut corners on games its going be deemed unplayble or visualy crap compair to developers that do push limits. so only time will tell if they do start making visualy awsome games, but they cant just catar to console market they got look at PC and Push there hardware as well giving us more eye candy is very important for this step in next gen gaming, if they pull same BS stunt with current gen consoles then PC gaming will still have porting issues and gamers on pc will contuine to flame consoles and developers only careing for console market

  • SybnalSybnal nunavit, NWPosts: 261Member

    I was impressed by the specs of the new PS4. It's pretty much the computer I'm running now.

    Of course,  I put my system together almost 3 years ago.  So the PS4 isn't exactly pushing any boundaries.  But on the other hand I can't wait to NOT play Diablo 3 on it and see how it compares to not playing it on PC.  :P

     

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by FateFatality
    Originally posted by fivoroth

    The PS3 was a pain to develop/port for. Xbox 360 on the other hand is much better. 

    But I don't think PC gaming is going to experience any significant growth... Casual games on smart devices are becoming more and more popular. The major thing that PC had going on for it was that the old consoles were very dated and the graphics were looking a bit tired. This is not going to be the case once the new consoles come out. Most games will loook much better on the consoles for a while than they would on your PC. But the major problem with the PC is that a lot of great games are console exclusives. There are tons of AAA releases which never make it to the PC yet there are very few AAA releases which don't make it to the consoles (MMOs, RTS). But it looks that MMOs are making their way to the consoles now that they have the juice to handle them.

    wrong!!!! PC is the best platform for gaming peroid exclusives may or may be good but don't mean anything

    the specs are 1.84 Teraflop/sec with AMD 8core prob @ 1.6 to 1.8GHZ using AMD CPU not the best.

    on top of that if you wanna know what they really useing they are using GPGPU Tech to port most of graphics and AI or w.e they can to GPU and less on CPU also like point out GPU is infact a 7970M mobile it TDP is only 100W makeing it console friendly and its performance is between Dekstop HD 7850 to HD 7870. mid range graphics not bad but PC is still better GTX 580+ is roughly 25% better performance wise. if GPGPU tech is used then it be used on PC as well again produceing better visuals then Console even with last gen flag ship cards that alone means more CPU for other important things

    also only 4 cores will be used for console for gaming and rest of 4 are used for back ground stuff such as downloads  steaming  share functions ect ect

     

    So point is that it's a PC with no upgrade path Nvidia is already about to announce next gen GPU 700 Family they just realsed the Titan so not long now again furthur pushing PC ahead of Console we be looking at roughly 80 to 100% more GPU power also Point out if AMD CPU is what i said it is a simpe Intel 4 Core CPU @ 3.3+ GHZ from i5 or i7 fam sandybridge and ivrybridge is also more effective then mare 8 core low GHZ plus there is also overclocking on CPU such as i5 2500k Clocking 4,5GHZ easy.

    A couple of things you got wrong. For starters, exclusives are the reason you pick a console over the other when not being a fanboy.  Games sell far higher on a console normaly than on the pc, thats a fact.

    Then we get into all your leet graphiz and numbers. Have you seen the last of us or the new tomb raider and how they look on the ps3? Do you know how they make it look like that with 512 mb ram and a graphic card equivalent to a series 7 nvidia? Tahts because every single playstation in the world has exactly the same hardware. What does this mean? thats its FAR easier to optimise. 

     

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

    In fact, if there are no chips specifically preventing it, it should be completely possible to install Linux or even Windows into the new PS4. Don't know why anyone would want that, though.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

     

    Thats right because using DDR5 for system ram is so common on normal pcs right?

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

     

    Thats right because using DDR5 for system ram is so common on normal pcs right?

    You have no idea what "architechture" means in terms of computers, do you?

     

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

     

    Thats right because using DDR5 for system ram is so common on normal pcs right?

    You have no idea what "architechture" means in terms of computers, do you?

     

    Im not an expert since i havent studied this thing in years but im pretty sure the way memory and the CPU interact has a lot to do with it.  I assume that changing the type of memory used for a process changes a lot, the same way last generation the ps3 used a proccesor type that wasnt very popular with developers

    Also, a quick search on google says its closer but not exaclt the same.

    what is true tho is that games will be easier to do on the ps4 now...now with the xbox 720 we have no clue.

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

     

    Thats right because using DDR5 for system ram is so common on normal pcs right?

    You have no idea what "architechture" means in terms of computers, do you?

     

    Im not an expert since i havent studied this thing in years but im pretty sure the way memory and the CPU interact has a lot to do with it.  I assume that changing the type of memory used for a process changes a lot, the same way last generation the ps3 used a proccesor type that wasnt very popular with developers

    Ok to be fair if we are talking about the whole architechture, DDR3 and GDDR5 are a bit different, but the way they are called works in a very similar way from a programmer's point of view. The problem with PS3 was indeed the CPU, which was a completely different architechture from the x86 architechture used in PCs (and both Xbox consoles). In essence, you had to write the game engine almost completely differently for a PS3 than Xbox/PC.

    Now PS4, on the other hand, will use an x86 architechture CPU, which means programmers will be able to use mostly the same code over all three platforms. The biggest differences will probably be on the graphics side, because the PS4 won't be able to run DirectX, but on consoles the developers will soon have to go close to "bare metal" programming anyway, to keep pushing more "oomph" from the machine. At this point, there will be some differences in programming in regards to the memory access. For games that will run mostly on standard APIs like OpenGL/CL and DirectX, very little changes need to be made to have the same program running on PC and consoles.

    Naturally, the engine is only one portion of the development costs of the games, but it's still the "heart" of the game. All other assets are dependent on how the engine runs. With the next generation, the devs can fine-tune the enginer better, since they don't have to program it for two completely different CPUs.

     

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by austriacus 

     

    what is true tho is that games will be easier to do on the ps4 now...now with the xbox 720 we have no clue.

    Yes we don't know for sure, but Microsoft would be crazy to abandon the x86 architechture and DirectX at this point. It's a pretty safe bet the next Xbox will also join the gang with x86 architechture.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by austriacus

    People REALLY need to stop comparing consoles and PCs eitherway. They work on entirely different architecture.

    Theres no superior gaming platform. There are different platforms for different needs.

    With the next generation of consoles, coming out this year, they will be working on exactly the same architechture. Only software is different.

     

    Thats right because using DDR5 for system ram is so common on normal pcs right?

    You have no idea what "architechture" means in terms of computers, do you?

     

    Im not an expert since i havent studied this thing in years but im pretty sure the way memory and the CPU interact has a lot to do with it.  I assume that changing the type of memory used for a process changes a lot, the same way last generation the ps3 used a proccesor type that wasnt very popular with developers

    Ok to be fair if we are talking about the whole architechture, DDR3 and GDDR5 are a bit different, but the way they are called works in a very similar way from a programmer's point of view. The problem with PS3 was indeed the CPU, which was a completely different architechture from the x86 architechture used in PCs (and both Xbox consoles). In essence, you had to write the game engine almost completely differently for a PS3 than Xbox/PC.

    Now PS4, on the other hand, will use an x86 architechture CPU, which means programmers will be able to use mostly the same code over all three platforms. The biggest differences will probably be on the graphics side, because the PS4 won't be able to run DirectX, but on consoles the developers will soon have to go close to "bare metal" programming anyway, to keep pushing more "oomph" from the machine. At this point, there will be some differences in programming in regards to the memory access. For games that will run mostly on standard APIs like OpenGL/CL and DirectX, very little changes need to be made to have the same program running on PC and consoles.

    Naturally, the engine is only one portion of the development costs of the games, but it's still the "heart" of the game. All other assets are dependent on how the engine runs. With the next generation, the devs can fine-tune the enginer better, since they don't have to program it for two completely different CPUs.

     

    I completely agree with you, my only dig was that you said "exactly" which....you kinda just proved wrong...i think?

    I never said it wouldnt be easier, actually thats the whole thing that gaming magazines are screaming, i just dont think consoles and pcs will ever use the same  exact architecture. 

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