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"US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Thus demonstrating that F2P is anything but free to play.  To be making massive money, money has to be being paid by players.  Of course there is another model, one SOE has a patent for, interupting the game with paid advertisments. Fortunately we have not seen that one introduced into the wild yet.

    Personally I am happy to see a variety of pricing models. While I prefer the consistency of a subscription fee and no cash shop other models are equally valid.  Despite the history of bad F2P games and bad P2P games going F2P there is nothing in either model that dictates bad (or good) design and implementation.

    Anarchy Online actually had in game advertising on billboards and things for a little while. I never really got into that game back then, as I was still in school and was busy all the time, but I remember the advertising not feeling very intrusive in the sci-fi setting. It actually felt like it made a lot of sense in that universe much like the Coka-Cola advertisements in Bladerunner.

     

    But in a fantasy game? I think it would bother the hell out of a lot of people - including me. 

     

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I might be accepting of a well made sci-fi MMORPG that does in game advertising in a tasteful way if it meant the game would be free to play without a cash shop. It's probably not viable, at least at this point, but it seems like a possibility at some point.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Rossboss

    If you believe Blizzard, EA, and smaller developers aren't sharing your data, let me welcome you to the era of Facebook where you can freely share your own data to others and tell them how many cows you e-milked today.

    The study is not specifically stand-alone MMORPGs either, make note of that.

    I'd imagine it includes smart phone applications and Facebook games alike.

    I didn't generate this study nor do I claim to see this as the holy grail of all writing.

     ROFLMAO!

    Wait, you actually believe that a publically held company can hide data on their products? Even EA, trying to hide the issues with SWTOR have no choice but eventually bring it up in conferrence calls...hell, their last one where they lumped SWTOR in with 2 other games had to release it on paper afterwards.

    When there are public shareholders, they cant hide anything...its the smaller companies that have no public option that CAN withold information.

    Just like you mouthbreathers can deny F2P is making massive money all you want but when a company like Nexon is dropping over 400 million to buyout other companies....reality laughs at you.

    Thus demonstrating that F2P is anything but free to play.  To be making massive money, money has to be being paid by players.  Of course there is another model, one SOE has a patent for, interupting the game with paid advertisments. Fortunately we have not seen that one introduced into the wild yet.

    Personally I am happy to see a variety of pricing models. While I prefer the consistency of a subscription fee and no cash shop other models are equally valid.  Despite the history of bad F2P games and bad P2P games going F2P there is nothing in either model that dictates bad (or good) design and implementation.

    This ONLY demonstrating that F2P is not free for SOME. It still can be free to play for many, and even a majority. In fact, evidence supporting exactly that ... a SMALL minority of whales pay through the roof while most are playing for free.

    So F2P is correct for many.

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by jtcgs

     ROFLMAO!

    Wait, you actually believe that a publically held company can hide data on their products? Even EA, trying to hide the issues with SWTOR have no choice but eventually bring it up in conferrence calls...hell, their last one where they lumped SWTOR in with 2 other games had to release it on paper afterwards.

    When there are public shareholders, they cant hide anything...its the smaller companies that have no public option that CAN withold information.

    Just like you mouthbreathers can deny F2P is making massive money all you want but when a company like Nexon is dropping over 400 million to buyout other companies....reality laughs at you.

    Thus demonstrating that F2P is anything but free to play.  To be making massive money, money has to be being paid by players. 

    Speaking strictly of F2P as a whole and not just MMOs (because it's easier to play with the line in MMOs), DOTA 2 and LoL have wonderful cash shops that offers purely cosmetic and convenience items (DOTA has Hero Skins and Spectator Access to Tournaments, LoL has champions, champion skins, rewards buffs, etc). They're both very succesful F2P titles that can be played without ever spending a single buck and yet they are still making money. Why is that? Because they offer services or items that players find interesting even though they have no bearing on the overall experience.

    Will buying a Hero Skin in DOTA 2 means that the game is no longer free to play? No. You could play without ever spending a single buck and get the same experience as those paying for Hero Skins. The only thing you won't get as a F2P player, is Spectator Access to Tournament Matches within the DOTA TV client (but you may still watch streams online from other distributors), you can however spectate normal matches entirely for free. But again, this does not affect in any way the F2P model, in that players can continue to play for free without ever having to spend a dime. The players who purchase Hero Skins do so because they want to and feel that they get their money out of it, and different people value money differently.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Thus demonstrating that F2P is anything but free to play.  To be making massive money, money has to be being paid by players.  Of course there is another model, one SOE has a patent for, interupting the game with paid advertisments. Fortunately we have not seen that one introduced into the wild yet.

    Personally I am happy to see a variety of pricing models. While I prefer the consistency of a subscription fee and no cash shop other models are equally valid.  Despite the history of bad F2P games and bad P2P games going F2P there is nothing in either model that dictates bad (or good) design and implementation.

    Anarchy Online actually had in game advertising on billboards and things for a little while. I never really got into that game back then, as I was still in school and was busy all the time, but I remember the advertising not feeling very intrusive in the sci-fi setting. It actually felt like it made a lot of sense in that universe much like the Coka-Cola advertisements in Bladerunner.

    But in a fantasy game? I think it would bother the hell out of a lot of people - including me. 

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I might be accepting of a well made sci-fi MMORPG that does in game advertising in a tasteful way if it meant the game would be free to play without a cash shop. It's probably not viable, at least at this point, but it seems like a possibility at some point.

    from http://www.gizmag.com/sony-in-game-advertising/22743/ May last year.

    "Sony Computer Entertainment America has filed a patent that could see video games interrupted by compulsory advertising. The patent's abstract describes the suspension of "interactive content" in order to display an advertisement, after which interaction resumes."

    Does not seem to have hit the PC market yet, but this site reported its intended use in at least one PS game.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/71/view/news/page/2/read/3318/PlanetSide-SOE-Jumps-On-InGame-Ads.html

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen

    LOL, I had to laugh at that always right.

    So stop beating around the bush - what reason is it that you aren't paying them the same as a sub game? If you are the rare person that is not like the others, give me the reason that you aren't paying what you would for a sub game - be it more or less. Tell the world why you should pay less. What made you so aware that 15 bucks a month is too much, nay 5 a month is too much to pay a month (runescape). Clue me in because I don't read minds even though I am all powerful in other regards :P Careful - it can't be a complaint about something or that would be dissatisfaction.

    I play F2P games because they are fun. It's pretty simple. If I don't see a reason to pay, I don't. If I want something, I do.

     

    I play sub games as well btw.

    Vague. Figures. Convo complete.

    I can see how such a simple answer could be difficult for you to deal with after all the effort you put into spinning F2P into an eventual complete and utter failure. But what I said was the truth. I, and many others, don't fit into the little box you created to justify your biased viewpoint.

     

    Your crusade would make a lot more sense if you actually admitted that it is completely based on your opinion. I'm not arguing that people should pay zero to play games. I'm saying that the F2P audience is much larger right now and that it is growing faster than P2P. You are trying to convince people, contrary to all evidence, that F2P is doomed to fail. And you use anecdotal evidence and opinion to back up your claims. What's worse is that you start trying to justify your viewpoint by saying you are making a game and that you are an INTJ personality.

     

    Convo complete? Yeah, I guess so. But most of what you said certainly isn't convincing me.

     

    My INTJ lets me see right through you as transparent.

    Hey fluffikins, what did I type at the top of the post I made, it was opinion. Opinion though based on information from people that have sold games peppered with information from people that talk about why they purchase games.  Not unfounded ramblings. Chide my expertise yet yours is in your lap under the napkin. I made logical arguments and made them real easy to understand with simple words.

    You didn't state a reason because your reason is trying to gain satisfaction which means you are in a state of dissatisfaction without what you buy. This is like debating with kiddiewinks day. Just because someone doesn't gloat it doesn't mean they think they lost anything. It is complete because you aren't interesting enough. You are being too easy to pin down. The worst part is that you don't admit that you do purchase less when you aren't satisfied. Being unable to analyze yourself makes you a bad candidate for debate with me. I lay it all out on the table.

    You do exactly what I said, you devalue the developer's time and training and decide that payment wouldn't behoove you and you do it only when it satisfies you, that is everything I stated. I'm not unhappy to inform you, you turned out to be the norm.

    You may as well have responded with derrrrrrrrr.

     

    Wow this is just too funny. Trollololol

    First of all INTJ doesn't make anyone in this world special. INTJ is just the rarest personality types one can be. Even if you are one of these personality types doesn't make you smart. Personality does not give you a better understanding or a better IQ.

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

     

    • I – Introversion preferred to extraversion: INTJs tend to be quiet and reserved. They generally prefer interacting with a few close friends rather than a wide circle of acquaintances, and they expend energy in social situations (whereas extraverts gain energy).
    • N – Intuition preferred to sensing: INTJs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.
    • T – Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.
    • J – Judgment preferred to perception: INTJs tend to plan their activities and make decisions early. They derive a sense of control through predictability, which to perceptive types may seem limiting.
     
    It's very unlikely a INTJ would be on forums socializing with many other people let alone speaking up to such a simple a matter. So you already lose the "I" in INTJ.
     
    You are also not following the "N". Rather then seeing the big picture in free to play, you are focusing on small details that really have very little to do with it. You reasoning is because some are paying more then others? You know it kinda works that way in a store as well, someone can go in .. and leave without buying a thing. Some can go in and buy $100 worth of things. Free to Play mmo's is pretty much a giant store getting you to buy things. Think of the game as the actual store with a bunch of murchindise shining to get your attention and buy it.
     
    "T", Thinking, you are also not following at all. You are suppose to be using logic, but you clearly are not.
     
    The "J" really doesn't have much to do with this situation. I can say though your Judgement sucks XD.
     
    So, again, tell me. What makes you so special? ...
     
    OHHH! That's right you are "special" :3.
  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen

    LOL, I had to laugh at that always right.

    So stop beating around the bush - what reason is it that you aren't paying them the same as a sub game? If you are the rare person that is not like the others, give me the reason that you aren't paying what you would for a sub game - be it more or less. Tell the world why you should pay less. What made you so aware that 15 bucks a month is too much, nay 5 a month is too much to pay a month (runescape). Clue me in because I don't read minds even though I am all powerful in other regards :P Careful - it can't be a complaint about something or that would be dissatisfaction.

    I play F2P games because they are fun. It's pretty simple. If I don't see a reason to pay, I don't. If I want something, I do.

     

    I play sub games as well btw.

    Vague. Figures. Convo complete.

    I can see how such a simple answer could be difficult for you to deal with after all the effort you put into spinning F2P into an eventual complete and utter failure. But what I said was the truth. I, and many others, don't fit into the little box you created to justify your biased viewpoint.

     

    Your crusade would make a lot more sense if you actually admitted that it is completely based on your opinion. I'm not arguing that people should pay zero to play games. I'm saying that the F2P audience is much larger right now and that it is growing faster than P2P. You are trying to convince people, contrary to all evidence, that F2P is doomed to fail. And you use anecdotal evidence and opinion to back up your claims. What's worse is that you start trying to justify your viewpoint by saying you are making a game and that you are an INTJ personality.

     

    Convo complete? Yeah, I guess so. But most of what you said certainly isn't convincing me.

     

    My INTJ lets me see right through you as transparent.

    Hey fluffikins, what did I type at the top of the post I made, it was opinion. Opinion though based on information from people that have sold games peppered with information from people that talk about why they purchase games.  Not unfounded ramblings. Chide my expertise yet yours is in your lap under the napkin. I made logical arguments and made them real easy to understand with simple words.

    You didn't state a reason because your reason is trying to gain satisfaction which means you are in a state of dissatisfaction without what you buy. This is like debating with kiddiewinks day. Just because someone doesn't gloat it doesn't mean they think they lost anything. It is complete because you aren't interesting enough. You are being too easy to pin down. The worst part is that you don't admit that you do purchase less when you aren't satisfied. Being unable to analyze yourself makes you a bad candidate for debate with me. I lay it all out on the table.

    You do exactly what I said, you devalue the developer's time and training and decide that payment wouldn't behoove you and you do it only when it satisfies you, that is everything I stated. I'm not unhappy to inform you, you turned out to be the norm.

    You may as well have responded with derrrrrrrrr.

     

    Wow this is just too funny. Trollololol

    First of all INTJ doesn't make anyone in this world special. INTJ is just the rarest personality types one can be. Even if you are one of these personality types doesn't make you smart. Personality does not give you a better understanding or a better IQ.

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

     

    • I – Introversion preferred to extraversion: INTJs tend to be quiet and reserved. They generally prefer interacting with a few close friends rather than a wide circle of acquaintances, and they expend energy in social situations (whereas extraverts gain energy).
    • N – Intuition preferred to sensing: INTJs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.
    • T – Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.
    • J – Judgment preferred to perception: INTJs tend to plan their activities and make decisions early. They derive a sense of control through predictability, which to perceptive types may seem limiting.
     
    It's very unlikely a INTJ would be on forums socializing with many other people let alone speaking up to such a simple a matter. So you already lose the "I" in INTJ.
     
    You are also not following the "N". Rather then seeing the big picture in free to play, you are focusing on small details that really have very little to do with it. You reasoning is because some are paying more then others? You know it kinda works that way in a store as well, someone can go in .. and leave without buying a thing. Some can go in and buy $100 worth of things. Free to Play mmo's is pretty much a giant store getting you to buy things. Think of the game as the actual store with a bunch of murchindise shining to get your attention and buy it.
     
    "T", Thinking, you are also not following at all. You are suppose to be using logic, but you clearly are not.
     
    The "J" really doesn't have much to do with this situation. I can say though your Judgement sucks XD.
     
    So, again, tell me. What makes you so special? ...
     
    OHHH! That's right you are "special" :3.

    Yeah, tell me more about myself. I'm not an INTJ because I'm on a forum. This just gets more entertaining. So INTJs never talk right, wrong. http://intjforum.com/ We just don't talk to people after they stop being entertaining, learn to predict me. Don't be jealous because my personality type is rare - the rarity only threatens you. I'm not threatened by it. I don't need to be considered "special" but different I am from the majority of the other people around me - nothing new. What were your discussions on the topic again?

    Yeah... not a one because you came for a personal attack.

    Good news for you, I can put people on block, bad news for me - their dumb comments still show unless I block them in every new thread. Ah well, first world problems. Still not going to make me play free games. Keep talking about it though. I think I might get off on your overwhelming attention to detail, on me. When you hit that nerve and you speak truth it just radiates drawing in more and more blind defenders. Tell me more things about myself that aren't true, I can take it. Give it to me, tell me how mad you are lol That maniacal laugh was a bit scary - you should have been here to witness it. Aww but joo can't be, joo be on dee internets fah fah away in that angry place. Here, enjoy this for your insightful input. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k If I hurt your feelings calling you a slacker well deal with it, you are NULL to me. Unworthy of my companionship in games and neither of us feel any pity about it.

  • BochnerBochner Tampa, FLPosts: 1Member
    Your entire post has nothing to stand on. Just because some website is calculating the amount of suscriptions does not mean that they left for a F2P model, they leave for a number of reasons. 
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen

    LOL, I had to laugh at that always right.

    So stop beating around the bush - what reason is it that you aren't paying them the same as a sub game? If you are the rare person that is not like the others, give me the reason that you aren't paying what you would for a sub game - be it more or less. Tell the world why you should pay less. What made you so aware that 15 bucks a month is too much, nay 5 a month is too much to pay a month (runescape). Clue me in because I don't read minds even though I am all powerful in other regards :P Careful - it can't be a complaint about something or that would be dissatisfaction.

    I play F2P games because they are fun. It's pretty simple. If I don't see a reason to pay, I don't. If I want something, I do.

     

    I play sub games as well btw.

    Vague. Figures. Convo complete.

    I can see how such a simple answer could be difficult for you to deal with after all the effort you put into spinning F2P into an eventual complete and utter failure. But what I said was the truth. I, and many others, don't fit into the little box you created to justify your biased viewpoint.

     

    Your crusade would make a lot more sense if you actually admitted that it is completely based on your opinion. I'm not arguing that people should pay zero to play games. I'm saying that the F2P audience is much larger right now and that it is growing faster than P2P. You are trying to convince people, contrary to all evidence, that F2P is doomed to fail. And you use anecdotal evidence and opinion to back up your claims. What's worse is that you start trying to justify your viewpoint by saying you are making a game and that you are an INTJ personality.

     

    Convo complete? Yeah, I guess so. But most of what you said certainly isn't convincing me.

     

    My INTJ lets me see right through you as transparent.

    Hey fluffikins, what did I type at the top of the post I made, it was opinion. Opinion though based on information from people that have sold games peppered with information from people that talk about why they purchase games.  Not unfounded ramblings. Chide my expertise yet yours is in your lap under the napkin. I made logical arguments and made them real easy to understand with simple words.

    You didn't state a reason because your reason is trying to gain satisfaction which means you are in a state of dissatisfaction without what you buy. This is like debating with kiddiewinks day. Just because someone doesn't gloat it doesn't mean they think they lost anything. It is complete because you aren't interesting enough. You are being too easy to pin down. The worst part is that you don't admit that you do purchase less when you aren't satisfied. Being unable to analyze yourself makes you a bad candidate for debate with me. I lay it all out on the table.

    You do exactly what I said, you devalue the developer's time and training and decide that payment wouldn't behoove you and you do it only when it satisfies you, that is everything I stated. I'm not unhappy to inform you, you turned out to be the norm.

    You may as well have responded with derrrrrrrrr.

     

    Wow this is just too funny. Trollololol

    First of all INTJ doesn't make anyone in this world special. INTJ is just the rarest personality types one can be. Even if you are one of these personality types doesn't make you smart. Personality does not give you a better understanding or a better IQ.

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

     

    • I – Introversion preferred to extraversion: INTJs tend to be quiet and reserved. They generally prefer interacting with a few close friends rather than a wide circle of acquaintances, and they expend energy in social situations (whereas extraverts gain energy).
    • N – Intuition preferred to sensing: INTJs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.
    • T – Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.
    • J – Judgment preferred to perception: INTJs tend to plan their activities and make decisions early. They derive a sense of control through predictability, which to perceptive types may seem limiting.
     
    It's very unlikely a INTJ would be on forums socializing with many other people let alone speaking up to such a simple a matter. So you already lose the "I" in INTJ.
     
    You are also not following the "N". Rather then seeing the big picture in free to play, you are focusing on small details that really have very little to do with it. You reasoning is because some are paying more then others? You know it kinda works that way in a store as well, someone can go in .. and leave without buying a thing. Some can go in and buy $100 worth of things. Free to Play mmo's is pretty much a giant store getting you to buy things. Think of the game as the actual store with a bunch of murchindise shining to get your attention and buy it.
     
    "T", Thinking, you are also not following at all. You are suppose to be using logic, but you clearly are not.
     
    The "J" really doesn't have much to do with this situation. I can say though your Judgement sucks XD.
     
    So, again, tell me. What makes you so special? ...
     
    OHHH! That's right you are "special" :3.

    Yeah, tell me more about myself. I'm not an INTJ because I'm on a forum. This just gets more entertaining. So INTJs never talk right, wrong. We just don't talk to people after they stop being entertaining, learn to predict me. Don't be jealous because my personality type is rare - the rarity only threatens you. I'm not threatened by it. I don't need to be considered "special" but different I am from the majority of the other people around me - nothing new. What were your discussions on the topic again?

    Yeah... not a one because you came for a personal attack.

    Good news for you, I can put people on block, bad news for me - their dumb comments still show unless I block them in every new thread. Ah well, first world problems. Still not going to make me play free games. Keep talking about it though. I think I might get off on your overwhelming attention to detail, on me. When you hit that nerve and you speak truth it just radiates. Tell me more things about myself that aren't true, I can take it. Give it to me, tell me how mad you are lol

    Not mad, only proving a point. I also never said INTJ's never talk, I said they usually don't bother getting involved in such situations.

    Also, hate to point this out. Rarity doesn't threaten me, considering I am a pretty rare specimen myself XD. However unlike you, im not going to use it and act like I know everything, because I do not. Just like you, I know a lot of game industry professionals and have even been part of a few development teams. Now this of course doesn't mean I know for a fact that free to play will stick. However, I do know free to play is not a bad model. Nexon, while not the best support company in the world, has made just about all their profits using a free to play model. They are also one of the largest free to play gaming companies and very sucessful at that.

    If there is something wrong with free to play, how did Nexon become so big?

    Edit: I also can't forget to mention that many companies are moving to the free to play model. Kinda funny how it's sucha bad model yet companies are using it.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
     

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

    That would be impossible to tell without a full Myers-Briggs test. 

    In any case you are, like many people, completely wrong on the introvert-extrovert thing.

    Think of it like this; last night you had a wonderful party you had a great time.  All your friends where there and you even met some great new people.

    This morning on waking up you want to:

    • do it all again tonight, I am feeling wonderfull. You jump out of bed and start planning to meet people.
    • that was great, I just need a few days to recover and charge my batteries.  A nice quiet day on my own would be great.
    The first is an extrovert, the second an introvert.  Also remember it is a continuum and not a polarity.
     
    You also make other errors in ascribing characteristics to the poster based on a simplistic description of the Myers-Briggs system.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
     

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

    That would be impossible to tell without a full Myers-Briggs test. 

    In any case you are, like many people, completely wrong on the introvert-extrovert thing.

    Think of it like this; last night you had a wonderful party you had a great time.  All your friends where there and you even met some great new people.

    This morning on waking up you want to:

    • do it all again tonight, I am feeling wonderfull. You jump out of bed and start planning to meet people.
    • that was great, I just need a few days to recover and charge my batteries.  A nice quiet day on my own would be great.
    The first is an extrovert, the second an introvert.  Also remember it is a continuum and not a polarity.
     

    Thanks for pointing that out. While ya you do need a test to actually be able to say for sure, it still certainly doesn't make you smarter then anyone else. They believed Einstein was a INTP. I mean so does that make INTP personality type special? No, not really. Again, personality type has nothing to do with knowledge or IQ. That would be like saying because you have blue eyes, you are better.

    It's something hitler would say is what im saying.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
     

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

    That would be impossible to tell without a full Myers-Briggs test. 

    In any case you are, like many people, completely wrong on the introvert-extrovert thing.

    Think of it like this; last night you had a wonderful party you had a great time.  All your friends where there and you even met some great new people.

    This morning on waking up you want to:

    • do it all again tonight, I am feeling wonderfull. You jump out of bed and start planning to meet people.
    • that was great, I just need a few days to recover and charge my batteries.  A nice quiet day on my own would be great.
    The first is an extrovert, the second an introvert.  Also remember it is a continuum and not a polarity.
     

    Thanks for pointing that out. While ya you do need a test to actually be able to say for sure, it still certainly doesn't make you smarter then anyone else. They believed Einstein was a INTP. I mean so does that make INTP personality type special? No, not really. Again, personality type has nothing to do with knowledge or IQ. That would be like saying because you have blue eyes, you are better.

    It's something hitler would say is what im saying.

    I doubt it is something Hitler would say, I believe he was anti Carl Jung and Myers-Briggs is Jungian (Carl Jung was Jewish within the Nazi definition).  As to the substantive point there is some correlation between high IQ and INTP personality type.  But really the whole Myers-Briggs thing is pretty passe.

     

     

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    6-to-1... sounds like ratio at which US was leveraging their loans during GFC lol.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen

    LOL, I had to laugh at that always right.

    So stop beating around the bush - what reason is it that you aren't paying them the same as a sub game? If you are the rare person that is not like the others, give me the reason that you aren't paying what you would for a sub game - be it more or less. Tell the world why you should pay less. What made you so aware that 15 bucks a month is too much, nay 5 a month is too much to pay a month (runescape). Clue me in because I don't read minds even though I am all powerful in other regards :P Careful - it can't be a complaint about something or that would be dissatisfaction.

    I play F2P games because they are fun. It's pretty simple. If I don't see a reason to pay, I don't. If I want something, I do.

     

    I play sub games as well btw.

    Vague. Figures. Convo complete.

    I can see how such a simple answer could be difficult for you to deal with after all the effort you put into spinning F2P into an eventual complete and utter failure. But what I said was the truth. I, and many others, don't fit into the little box you created to justify your biased viewpoint.

     

    Your crusade would make a lot more sense if you actually admitted that it is completely based on your opinion. I'm not arguing that people should pay zero to play games. I'm saying that the F2P audience is much larger right now and that it is growing faster than P2P. You are trying to convince people, contrary to all evidence, that F2P is doomed to fail. And you use anecdotal evidence and opinion to back up your claims. What's worse is that you start trying to justify your viewpoint by saying you are making a game and that you are an INTJ personality.

     

    Convo complete? Yeah, I guess so. But most of what you said certainly isn't convincing me.

     

    My INTJ lets me see right through you as transparent.

    Hey fluffikins, what did I type at the top of the post I made, it was opinion. Opinion though based on information from people that have sold games peppered with information from people that talk about why they purchase games.  Not unfounded ramblings. Chide my expertise yet yours is in your lap under the napkin. I made logical arguments and made them real easy to understand with simple words.

    You didn't state a reason because your reason is trying to gain satisfaction which means you are in a state of dissatisfaction without what you buy. This is like debating with kiddiewinks day. Just because someone doesn't gloat it doesn't mean they think they lost anything. It is complete because you aren't interesting enough. You are being too easy to pin down. The worst part is that you don't admit that you do purchase less when you aren't satisfied. Being unable to analyze yourself makes you a bad candidate for debate with me. I lay it all out on the table.

    You do exactly what I said, you devalue the developer's time and training and decide that payment wouldn't behoove you and you do it only when it satisfies you, that is everything I stated. I'm not unhappy to inform you, you turned out to be the norm.

    You may as well have responded with derrrrrrrrr.

     

    Wow this is just too funny. Trollololol

    First of all INTJ doesn't make anyone in this world special. INTJ is just the rarest personality types one can be. Even if you are one of these personality types doesn't make you smart. Personality does not give you a better understanding or a better IQ.

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

     

    • I – Introversion preferred to extraversion: INTJs tend to be quiet and reserved. They generally prefer interacting with a few close friends rather than a wide circle of acquaintances, and they expend energy in social situations (whereas extraverts gain energy).
    • N – Intuition preferred to sensing: INTJs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.
    • T – Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.
    • J – Judgment preferred to perception: INTJs tend to plan their activities and make decisions early. They derive a sense of control through predictability, which to perceptive types may seem limiting.
     
    It's very unlikely a INTJ would be on forums socializing with many other people let alone speaking up to such a simple a matter. So you already lose the "I" in INTJ.
     
    You are also not following the "N". Rather then seeing the big picture in free to play, you are focusing on small details that really have very little to do with it. You reasoning is because some are paying more then others? You know it kinda works that way in a store as well, someone can go in .. and leave without buying a thing. Some can go in and buy $100 worth of things. Free to Play mmo's is pretty much a giant store getting you to buy things. Think of the game as the actual store with a bunch of murchindise shining to get your attention and buy it.
     
    "T", Thinking, you are also not following at all. You are suppose to be using logic, but you clearly are not.
     
    The "J" really doesn't have much to do with this situation. I can say though your Judgement sucks XD.
     
    So, again, tell me. What makes you so special? ...
     
    OHHH! That's right you are "special" :3.

    Yeah, tell me more about myself. I'm not an INTJ because I'm on a forum. This just gets more entertaining. So INTJs never talk right, wrong. We just don't talk to people after they stop being entertaining, learn to predict me. Don't be jealous because my personality type is rare - the rarity only threatens you. I'm not threatened by it. I don't need to be considered "special" but different I am from the majority of the other people around me - nothing new. What were your discussions on the topic again?

    Yeah... not a one because you came for a personal attack.

    Good news for you, I can put people on block, bad news for me - their dumb comments still show unless I block them in every new thread. Ah well, first world problems. Still not going to make me play free games. Keep talking about it though. I think I might get off on your overwhelming attention to detail, on me. When you hit that nerve and you speak truth it just radiates. Tell me more things about myself that aren't true, I can take it. Give it to me, tell me how mad you are lol

    Not mad, only proving a point. I also never said INTJ's never talk, I said they usually don't bother getting involved in such situations.

    Also, hate to point this out. Rarity doesn't threaten me, considering I am a pretty rare specimen myself XD. However unlike you, im not going to use it and act like I know everything, because I do not. Just like you, I know a lot of game industry professionals and have even been part of a few development teams. Now this of course doesn't mean I know for a fact that free to play will stick. However, I do know free to play is not a bad model. Nexon, while not the best support company in the world, has made just about all their profits using a free to play model. They are also one of the largest free to play gaming companies and very sucessful at that.

    If there is something wrong with free to play, how did Nexon become so big?

    Edit: I also can't forget to mention that many companies are moving to the free to play model. Kinda funny how it's sucha bad model yet companies are using it.

    I didn't use it to say I know everything. I was called bitter for my comments and I tried to explain to someone why my comments were as strongly worded as they were. Read back to the original post where it was discussed. It wasn't meant to BECOME the topic of conversation. It was to expand on actions that are normal to me but not for others, to them it would be an over the top reaction indicating that they were more agitated than normal or as they put it, bitter. I was trying to talk to them like a human being that simply misunderstood the inflection, this is the internet. To wit I was continiously told everything was a lie, my expertise, my research, and even my personality. It was started, it needed to be finished. Gave them the rope and they hung themselves with their own comments.

    I never once said free games don't make money. My complaints on the model are about it being sustainable. Again, you have to go read my posts.

    Kinda' funny a company has moved from free to play to a sub, is this an emerging trend?

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/allods-online-russia-opens-up-subscription-based-server/

    Anyone that believes a "study" where they read at most 4 paragraphs summarizing it without any idea of the games polled makes the entire thing laughable to begin with. I already stated that one million participants was not enough to be considered market research. There are 6 times that amount of players in one sub game alone - I don't think I need to name the game.

    I still have yet to see anyone claim that they paid 700 for this study and want to give us the details. No one will. The only people interested in promoting the hype of free games are the people that play them and not enough of them want to pay anything. That's what bugs me, free to play people keep trying to sell me on marketing and hype and I don't care if they know my true opinion of them or their games. They certainly aren't making their thoughts about my preferred style of play out-of-bounds for their discussions. Starting a topic like this was meant to garner reaction from the other side. It got it. I can be the beast of burden for the brunt of it, still not changing me or what I know. I know an online game requires money to operate. I'm not dumb enough to think free is real. Whether it ends next week or in 20 years, it matters not. Free is never free. What's the worst thing that could happen, I guilt someone into paying for their free game and the model continues? Still won't affect me since I won't be playing those games. I'm not making a game to offer it free to play, it will always be there for me even if every sub game on earth vanishes, then I have what they call a monopoly.

     

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by greenreen

    LOL, I had to laugh at that always right.

    So stop beating around the bush - what reason is it that you aren't paying them the same as a sub game? If you are the rare person that is not like the others, give me the reason that you aren't paying what you would for a sub game - be it more or less. Tell the world why you should pay less. What made you so aware that 15 bucks a month is too much, nay 5 a month is too much to pay a month (runescape). Clue me in because I don't read minds even though I am all powerful in other regards :P Careful - it can't be a complaint about something or that would be dissatisfaction.

    I play F2P games because they are fun. It's pretty simple. If I don't see a reason to pay, I don't. If I want something, I do.

     

    I play sub games as well btw.

    Vague. Figures. Convo complete.

    I can see how such a simple answer could be difficult for you to deal with after all the effort you put into spinning F2P into an eventual complete and utter failure. But what I said was the truth. I, and many others, don't fit into the little box you created to justify your biased viewpoint.

     

    Your crusade would make a lot more sense if you actually admitted that it is completely based on your opinion. I'm not arguing that people should pay zero to play games. I'm saying that the F2P audience is much larger right now and that it is growing faster than P2P. You are trying to convince people, contrary to all evidence, that F2P is doomed to fail. And you use anecdotal evidence and opinion to back up your claims. What's worse is that you start trying to justify your viewpoint by saying you are making a game and that you are an INTJ personality.

     

    Convo complete? Yeah, I guess so. But most of what you said certainly isn't convincing me.

     

    My INTJ lets me see right through you as transparent.

    Hey fluffikins, what did I type at the top of the post I made, it was opinion. Opinion though based on information from people that have sold games peppered with information from people that talk about why they purchase games.  Not unfounded ramblings. Chide my expertise yet yours is in your lap under the napkin. I made logical arguments and made them real easy to understand with simple words.

    You didn't state a reason because your reason is trying to gain satisfaction which means you are in a state of dissatisfaction without what you buy. This is like debating with kiddiewinks day. Just because someone doesn't gloat it doesn't mean they think they lost anything. It is complete because you aren't interesting enough. You are being too easy to pin down. The worst part is that you don't admit that you do purchase less when you aren't satisfied. Being unable to analyze yourself makes you a bad candidate for debate with me. I lay it all out on the table.

    You do exactly what I said, you devalue the developer's time and training and decide that payment wouldn't behoove you and you do it only when it satisfies you, that is everything I stated. I'm not unhappy to inform you, you turned out to be the norm.

    You may as well have responded with derrrrrrrrr.

     

    Wow this is just too funny. Trollololol

    First of all INTJ doesn't make anyone in this world special. INTJ is just the rarest personality types one can be. Even if you are one of these personality types doesn't make you smart. Personality does not give you a better understanding or a better IQ.

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

     

    • I – Introversion preferred to extraversion: INTJs tend to be quiet and reserved. They generally prefer interacting with a few close friends rather than a wide circle of acquaintances, and they expend energy in social situations (whereas extraverts gain energy).
    • N – Intuition preferred to sensing: INTJs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.
    • T – Thinking preferred to feeling: INTJs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations.
    • J – Judgment preferred to perception: INTJs tend to plan their activities and make decisions early. They derive a sense of control through predictability, which to perceptive types may seem limiting.
     
    It's very unlikely a INTJ would be on forums socializing with many other people let alone speaking up to such a simple a matter. So you already lose the "I" in INTJ.
     
    You are also not following the "N". Rather then seeing the big picture in free to play, you are focusing on small details that really have very little to do with it. You reasoning is because some are paying more then others? You know it kinda works that way in a store as well, someone can go in .. and leave without buying a thing. Some can go in and buy $100 worth of things. Free to Play mmo's is pretty much a giant store getting you to buy things. Think of the game as the actual store with a bunch of murchindise shining to get your attention and buy it.
     
    "T", Thinking, you are also not following at all. You are suppose to be using logic, but you clearly are not.
     
    The "J" really doesn't have much to do with this situation. I can say though your Judgement sucks XD.
     
    So, again, tell me. What makes you so special? ...
     
    OHHH! That's right you are "special" :3.

    Yeah, tell me more about myself. I'm not an INTJ because I'm on a forum. This just gets more entertaining. So INTJs never talk right, wrong. We just don't talk to people after they stop being entertaining, learn to predict me. Don't be jealous because my personality type is rare - the rarity only threatens you. I'm not threatened by it. I don't need to be considered "special" but different I am from the majority of the other people around me - nothing new. What were your discussions on the topic again?

    Yeah... not a one because you came for a personal attack.

    Good news for you, I can put people on block, bad news for me - their dumb comments still show unless I block them in every new thread. Ah well, first world problems. Still not going to make me play free games. Keep talking about it though. I think I might get off on your overwhelming attention to detail, on me. When you hit that nerve and you speak truth it just radiates. Tell me more things about myself that aren't true, I can take it. Give it to me, tell me how mad you are lol

    Not mad, only proving a point. I also never said INTJ's never talk, I said they usually don't bother getting involved in such situations.

    Also, hate to point this out. Rarity doesn't threaten me, considering I am a pretty rare specimen myself XD. However unlike you, im not going to use it and act like I know everything, because I do not. Just like you, I know a lot of game industry professionals and have even been part of a few development teams. Now this of course doesn't mean I know for a fact that free to play will stick. However, I do know free to play is not a bad model. Nexon, while not the best support company in the world, has made just about all their profits using a free to play model. They are also one of the largest free to play gaming companies and very sucessful at that.

    If there is something wrong with free to play, how did Nexon become so big?

    Edit: I also can't forget to mention that many companies are moving to the free to play model. Kinda funny how it's sucha bad model yet companies are using it.

    I didn't use it to say I know everything. I was called bitter for my comments and I tried to explain to someone why my comments were as strongly worded as they were. Read back to the original post where it was discussed. It wasn't meant to BECOME the topic of conversation. It was to expand on actions that are normal to me but not for others, to them it would be an over the top reaction indicating that they were more agitated than normal or as they put it, bitter. I was trying to talk to them like a human being that simply misunderstood the inflection, this is the internet. To wit I was continiously told everything was a lie, my expertise, my research, and even my personality. It was started, it needed to be finished. Gave them the rope and they hung themselves with their own comments.

    I never once said free games don't make money. My complaints on the model are about it being sustainable. Again, you have to go read my posts.

    Kinda' funny a company has moved from free to play to a sub, is this an emerging trend?

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/01/16/allods-online-russia-opens-up-subscription-based-server/

    Anyone that believes a "study" where they read at most 4 paragraphs summarizing it without any idea of the games polled makes the entire thing laughable to begin with. I already stated that one million participants was not enough to be considered market research. There are 6 times that amount of players in one sub game alone - I don't think I need to name the game.

    I still have yet to see anyone claim that they paid 700 for this study and want to give us the details. No one will. The only people interested in promoting the hype of free games are the people that play them and not enough of them want to pay anything. That's what bugs me, free to play people keep trying to sell me on marketing and hype and I don't care if they know my true opinion of them or their games. They certainly aren't making their thoughts about my preferred style of play out-of-bounds for their discussions. Starting a topic like this was meant to garner reaction from the other side. It got it. I can be the beast of burden for the brunt of it, still not changing me or what I know.

     

    Ok well in that case I apoligize. My fault for not going all the way back to the beginning. Sorry about that.

    Free to play has shown to work when done correctly. It's a fantastic model and experiments are still being done to find out exactly why it works. If you read my last post you can see an experiment done by Valve. 

    I have my own theory on why it works, but that im not going to explain that here.

    With this being said, pay to play probably wont be going anywhere. Which is better, I can't say at this current moment in time. Free to play is on the rise, that is a fact. It's a fact that it has worked plenty of times to know it's viable.

    In all honesty one can argue about this all day and never come to a answer because the answer currently does not exist.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

     

    Edit: Also a comment by a person doesn't equal that of a whole community. I know many people who still play TF2. I particularly hate the game myself.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

    Well Eurogamer has been around for a while (1999) and they are well known particularly for running The Eurogamer Expo and their industry awards.  But that does not make them a market research organisation.

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

    Well Eurogamer has been around for a while (1999) and they are well known particularly for running The Eurogamer Expo and their industry awards.  But that does not make them a market research organisation.

    Never said they where. They are my news source. A news source is just a news source. Not see how you got confused about that. Valve was the one who did the experiment and research. And we are talking about Valve here. They single handedly changed a big portion of the industry with steam. I don't take their research lightly.

    Edit: To funny just looked at my old personality tests my therapist made me take a while back and seems my personality type would be INTJ as well. Well guess that certainly does make me wrong, cause im posting in this forum as well XD.

  • greenreengreenreen Punchoo, AKPosts: 2,101Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
     

    Now on to another note, You don't even match a INTJ personality type.

    That would be impossible to tell without a full Myers-Briggs test. 

    In any case you are, like many people, completely wrong on the introvert-extrovert thing.

    Think of it like this; last night you had a wonderful party you had a great time.  All your friends where there and you even met some great new people.

    This morning on waking up you want to:

    • do it all again tonight, I am feeling wonderfull. You jump out of bed and start planning to meet people.
    • that was great, I just need a few days to recover and charge my batteries.  A nice quiet day on my own would be great.
    The first is an extrovert, the second an introvert.  Also remember it is a continuum and not a polarity.
     

    Thanks for pointing that out. While ya you do need a test to actually be able to say for sure, it still certainly doesn't make you smarter then anyone else. They believed Einstein was a INTP. I mean so does that make INTP personality type special? No, not really. Again, personality type has nothing to do with knowledge or IQ. That would be like saying because you have blue eyes, you are better.

    It's something hitler would say is what im saying.

    I doubt it is something Hitler would say, I believe he was anti Carl Jung and Myers-Briggs is Jungian (Carl Jung was Jewish within the Nazi definition).  As to the substantive point there is some correlation between high IQ and INTP personality type.  But really the whole Myers-Briggs thing is pretty passe.

     

     

    You really think so? I found pointing out my type great for work relationships. It explained so much about what we all expected from each other. I would get people in my cubicle talking about family life. They thought they were just being personable and that  I cared, that it was as necessary for me as for them. I finally busted out that I was there to work and that I really didn't care, my smiles were fake. After we got that all out of the way in meetings I was eventually allowed to work remotely. I didn't need the people time that others did and my performance was better out of the office. My boss looked at the bottom line and said, if it gets me more constructive time for the pay, go for it. I'm not the outcast now when I sit at my desk and eat alone because I don't want to go sit in a lunchroom. Heck, I'm enjoying myself watching some meme and practically singing along - all sides win because they can have tickle fights if they really want - they aren't making me do it any longer.

    In personal relationships I try to identify people by their personality types - I know for instance that my mother is a girly girl and wants me to notice when she got a haircut or is wearing new jewelry. I say things to her about them and it has improved our relationship. I don't care for me but I know she wants to be noticed for things like that so I do it for her and make sure I'm alert when she is around. I've also been able to explain to her why I prefer to be at home rather than at bars, she seems to get it now. I'm not making pipe bombs in the basement or an agoraphobic person I just have lots of things to do that interest me, like talking about games lol

    If it weren't for that test people would continue to confound me. Once I realized we all need different things the world just makes so much more sense. Back to my hard-line stance. I still think people should pay for the games they play as long as programmers work behind the scenes either having built the game or support the game. Firm stance.

    We have though hit Godwin's Law, where can it go from here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

    Well Eurogamer has been around for a while (1999) and they are well known particularly for running The Eurogamer Expo and their industry awards.  But that does not make them a market research organisation.

    Never said they where. They are my news source. A news source is just a news source. Not see how you got confused about that. Valve was the one who did the experiment and research. And we are talking about Valve here. They single handedly changed a big portion of the industry with steam. I don't take their research lightly.

    Edit: To funny just looked at my old personality tests my therapist made me take a while back and seems my personality type would be INTJ as well. Well guess that certainly does make me wrong, cause im posting in this forum as well XD.

    A very old news source did you not notice the date embedded in the link 2011-10-24? So the valve numbers were even older than that.  Also the user comment I copied Posted:A year ago. 

     

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Oh and BTW, the original data which this thread was based on seems to me to be fairly flawed.  It makes no consideration of the number of MMORPGs someone plays: one sub game & several F2P, several F2P, one F2P etc.

    Also on their "Companies we have worked with" list I do not see: Blizzard, SOE, Trion, CCP or indeed any of the other major MMORPG publishers with the sole exception of EA.  Makes you wonder how they actually got the data and who they were selling it to.

    Established in 2009 they seem to me to be hyping controversial research to establish a profile.  I suppose if you pay them serious money they will do a creditable job.  But the free data seems to be worth what you pay for it.

    The point of the matter is if you pay attention to the game industry, you would know the free to play model is doing well. I read game industry news every single day since im in the industry and it's pretty important to know what is going on. A good site to follow is gamesindustry.biz 

    You actually see Valve and Nexon working together fairly often. Nexon runs Counterstrike in Korea. Vavle also experimented on free to play with Team Fortress.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-10-24-newell-team-fortress-2-sees-20-per-cent-free-to-paid-conversion

    Hmmm, from the website a user comment:

    Has it occurred to Gabe that Team Fortress 2 is kinda stale by now?

    Posted:A year ago

    Also the site seems to be run by "Eurogamer Network Ltd"  from their corporate website.

    http://www.eurogamer.biz/holding.html

    Eurogamer is one of the world’s leading games media businesses. The company creates a range of gamer-focused websites and events.

    The Eurogamer family of websites now reaches over 10 million unique users per month.

    Full corporate site coming soon

    Does not seem to me to be a more reliable  source. Less reliable really.
     
    Now we all know that F2P makes money and there are many F2P titles out there.  But the attemp to hang some reputable source on the idea that F2P is in some way better seems to me to be failing.

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

    Well Eurogamer has been around for a while (1999) and they are well known particularly for running The Eurogamer Expo and their industry awards.  But that does not make them a market research organisation.

    Never said they where. They are my news source. A news source is just a news source. Not see how you got confused about that. Valve was the one who did the experiment and research. And we are talking about Valve here. They single handedly changed a big portion of the industry with steam. I don't take their research lightly.

    Edit: To funny just looked at my old personality tests my therapist made me take a while back and seems my personality type would be INTJ as well. Well guess that certainly does make me wrong, cause im posting in this forum as well XD.

    A very old news source did you not notice the date embedded in the link 2011-10-24? So the valve numbers were even older than that.  Also the user comment I copied Posted:A year ago. 

     

    Not a very old news source. There are many many articles about free to play, that is just 1 out of many on the site. I mean do I really need to go and explain this to you? Do I actually have to pul la more recent article for you even though I gave you the site and you are very capable of searching yourself?

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Rossboss

    If you believe Blizzard, EA, and smaller developers aren't sharing your data, let me welcome you to the era of Facebook where you can freely share your own data to others and tell them how many cows you e-milked today.

    The study is not specifically stand-alone MMORPGs either, make note of that.

    I'd imagine it includes smart phone applications and Facebook games alike.

    I didn't generate this study nor do I claim to see this as the holy grail of all writing.

     ROFLMAO!

    Wait, you actually believe that a publically held company can hide data on their products? Even EA, trying to hide the issues with SWTOR have no choice but eventually bring it up in conferrence calls...hell, their last one where they lumped SWTOR in with 2 other games had to release it on paper afterwards.

    When there are public shareholders, they cant hide anything...its the smaller companies that have no public option that CAN withold information.

    Just like you mouthbreathers can deny F2P is making massive money all you want but when a company like Nexon is dropping over 400 million to buyout other companies....reality laughs at you.

    Thus demonstrating that F2P is anything but free to play...

     What a great red herring that has nothing to do with what I said, or even what I replied to.

    Did you also know that  pizza cant be good for you because potatoes have skin.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Funnny I learned about that site from my college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.

    A very old news source did you not notice the date embedded in the link 2011-10-24? So the valve numbers were even older than that.  Also the user comment I copied Posted:A year ago. 

    Not a very old news source. There are many many articles about free to play, that is just 1 out of many on the site. I mean do I really need to go and explain this to you? Do I actually have to pul la more recent article for you even though I gave you the site and you are very capable of searching yourself?

    Funny I did not cite that sixteen month old article you did.  I did not make an appeal to the authority of my "college professor who has been in the game industry for over 20 years.'  You did. 

    It strikes me that if you have some reputable source of information to share, that is current and relevant you should perhaps do that. Rather than attacking people for being some personality type or other or for failing to do your research for you.

    Oh and if you think a sixteen month old article based on some data older than that is somehow relevant to the current state of the F2P/P2P argument you need to sit down with that professor and learn something about the pace of market trends in the gaming industry.

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