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"US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"

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  • infiniti70infiniti70 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 61Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Is their a AAA title released recently that was F2P?

     

     

     Is there a AAA title released recently that was P2P?

    Or should I say, is there a title that was claimed ot be AAA that was even a B title recently that was P2P?

    I wasn't trying to make a point, was just asking a question.

    Last AAA release of P2P I think was Rift and SWTOR, both in 2011. I can not think of any AAA titles since then.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Is their a AAA title released recently that was F2P?

     

     

     Is there a AAA title released recently that was P2P?

    Or should I say, is there a title that was claimed ot be AAA that was even a B title recently that was P2P?

    I wasn't trying to make a point, was just asking a question.

    Last AAA release of P2P I think was Rift and SWTOR, both in 2011. I can not think of any AAA titles since then.

    TSW and TERA released p2p

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sharess
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Sharess

    6-1 is a good ratio of people that don't want to pay for quality.

    Though having a purchase game with a microtransaction cash shop (no 15$ for mounts, like 6 would be great) would work a LOT better.

    Which P2P game is quality to you?

    ATM none of them.

    AA looks like it will have enough quality to have both cashshop and subscription.

    UO, EQ, EQII, WoW, TERA, on release all those games had enough quality to be P2P.

    I don't make a distinction between f2p and b2p.  It's sub-free vs sub-locked.  None of those games, not any game, is worth renting temporary access to me.  I'm paying for elite status in Tera while I level some characters.  It's value to me because it's a nice boost and when I stop paying and drop back down I can still play the game and access my world.  To me, that is a great system.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Is their a AAA title released recently that was F2P?

     

     

     Is there a AAA title released recently that was P2P?

    Or should I say, is there a title that was claimed ot be AAA that was even a B title recently that was P2P?

    I wasn't trying to make a point, was just asking a question.

    Last AAA release of P2P I think was Rift and SWTOR, both in 2011. I can not think of any AAA titles since then.

     SWTOR falls into what I was saying, company thought it was AAA and spent like it was AAA, it turned out not to even be an A game.

    As for your question, I would say no, others would say Age of Wushu and Path of Exile. I do believe that Otherland has a good chance of being one later this year.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon
    Teens and folks who really cant afford subs will logically flock to any of the hundreds f2p mmos.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Precusor
    Teens and folks who really cant afford subs will logically flock to any of the hundreds f2p mmos.

     People who really have no clue will logically flock to post comments like this, makes them feel special for paying money every month for reasons that no longer apply when it was created.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • infiniti70infiniti70 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 61Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by infiniti70
    Is their a AAA title released recently that was F2P?

     

     

     Is there a AAA title released recently that was P2P?

    Or should I say, is there a title that was claimed ot be AAA that was even a B title recently that was P2P?

    I wasn't trying to make a point, was just asking a question.

    Last AAA release of P2P I think was Rift and SWTOR, both in 2011. I can not think of any AAA titles since then.

    TSW and TERA released p2p

    Played TSW, but was not sure how it launched as I understand they changed up the pay model on it.

    So, have any AAA games launched F2P? (I ask again)

     

    I am not trying to make a point here. GW1 was the first game I remember being F2P (outside of box cost) and was not really an MMO, but did have community. LOTRO is the first AAA sub game I can remember going to F2P with cash shop. Since then, many games have followed (EQ2, AOC, Warhammer). And other using F2P more as a long intro to game (Free for 20 levels or similar).

    It seems the best business model is Box sales + Subs + expansion or two (should put the game at 18-24 months) then move to F2P to get an uptick in population as game gets stale...new revenue.

     

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Columbus, OHPosts: 520Member
    Just because someone is playing a F2P game doesn't mean they prefer the F2P system. This statistic is misleading anyways since theres way more then 6 times as many F2P games as P2P. Not to mention 90% of the F2P games out there are pay to win anyways.
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    lol it's funny to me because a lot(not all) of "shitty" f2p games where once p2p. I can agree, F2P and yes even B2P can have less loyalty than P2P. F2P though has a lot more trolling in chats than B2P and P2P games though, least from my experience.

    I still will never agree that paying box price plus a sub is needed for a great MMO, and it pushed me even further into that belief since the release of GW2(My opinion).

    Also it irks me though I mean something clearly isn't right with P2P, if a lot of MMOs go from P2P to Freemium(Like F2P with P2P options). F2P attracts a lot but maybe not maintain that loyalty and for certain maturity as P2P/B2P mmos but then most just end up F2P.

    The reason I don't like subs though is cause if I stop playing for say a month because I'm busy an then I feel like playin the next month but don't have much time on my hands I then have to pay 15 dollars just to get those few days lol.

    Luckily I never had to do that and least one MMO was made for me, and some are moving towards the right payment model for me. 

    Even my dream MMO wouldn't have me slav...paying 15 dollars a month when the developers don't [need] it from me, if anything throw me a non p2w cash shop(GW2 comes to mind fuck the haters) and you might actually get 10 dollars and that's a huge maybe because then if you make it to where I can get cash shop items in game...that's even better.

    I guess P2P games just do their P2P wrong same with F2P and B2P. Also note how I experienced some P2P MMOs, well never said I didn't have friens that play em. Though really the amount of friends I have that did P2P is decreasing, but however they don't do F2P at all.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Crunchy222Crunchy222 new york, ILPosts: 386Member

    Ok so theres a larger market of players when you dont put a paywall up...rocket science?

    Now if this wasnt typical f2p propeganda...you would see a like to something comparing paying players in p2p games vs f2p games...and i think you would see a slightly different picture.

     

    I get it though...in a perfect world all games would be f2p so you all could moan and whine about the cash shop asking for money. 

    Also...am i a f2p player?  ive played f2p games...does this make me a f2p or p2p player...because i play p2p games to....how did this magical study conducted by mystery people determine?

    As someone who plays both i vastly prefer p2p...by a long shot...for many...many reasons ranging from community to level play field, to how developer effort seems to shift in what they spend time on between the two. 

     

    Oh yeah i see they used SWTOR as a metric...that game is NOT free to play...just has a long trial.  Enjoy being excluded from endgame and hotbars if your free.  Forget they always gotta game the data to get the results they want.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by infiniti70

    Played TSW, but was not sure how it launched as I understand they changed up the pay model on it.

    So, have any AAA games launched F2P? (I ask again)

     

    I am not trying to make a point here. GW1 was the first game I remember being F2P (outside of box cost) and was not really an MMO, but did have community. LOTRO is the first AAA sub game I can remember going to F2P with cash shop. Since then, many games have followed (EQ2, AOC, Warhammer). And other using F2P more as a long intro to game (Free for 20 levels or similar).

    It seems the best business model is Box sales + Subs + expansion or two (should put the game at 18-24 months) then move to F2P to get an uptick in population as game gets stale...new revenue.

     

     1. if you list GW1 as a F2P game, then GW2 would be your AAA F2P game release recently.

    2. Box+Sub+Expac, then go F2P doesnt actually work as well as going F2P from the start if you target more than just western players. Nexon Co has become a giant off of F2P games, big enough they spent more money last year buying companies out and buying a stake into companies than most western companies make in all revenues. Worse yet, games that TURN F2P long after release always do so in a piss poor way that limits their new revenue. They always come with bad shops, and they retain a Sub model placing those players above F2P players...also making it a FREEMIUM, not really a F2P game. Either way, they dont make the kind of revenue as actual F2P games.

    Its simple math.

    if there are, say 40 million MMORPG players around the world. If you go F2P, you have 40 million potential customers. If you go P2P, you just lost those that will never pay a monthly fee AND those that are locked into a better game, as well as those that just plain dont want to pay to play two games at the same time.

    Just plain makes no sense at all. Remove WoW from that list provided in the OP and you just removed over 50% of the P2P markets revenue...because P2P doesnt appeal overall any longer and it will make less sense to pay to play any game when there are so many F2P options out there now, and will be by the end of the year.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Crunchy222

    Ok so theres a larger market of players when you dont put a paywall up...rocket science?

    Now if this wasnt typical f2p propeganda...

     Yep, its pure propaganda that Nexon somehow had over 400 million dollars last year to buyout several companies and buy a 15% stake in NCsoft.

    No really, its propaganda, they print money. There is no revenue in F2P, so what if SoE, EA, Funcom and Turbine said Subscriptions are a thing of the past...pure, propaganda...and pay no mind to the massive amounts of companies popping up producing A to AAA F2P games this year.

    They are not really doing it, its propaganda to get you to stop giving money to other companies and play theirs for free!

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,747Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Talgen
    My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

     and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    I like the FTP model if it's done right. I never found any issue with FTP games and actually I have had more fun in FTP games then sub based games. I spent many years playing Mabinogi as an example. Now im playing TERA Online, but I will admit I started playing TERA back when it was sub based.
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Talgen
    My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

     and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

     Dont bother, because if he ever told his parents that he paid for a game, to have to pay to be able to play it...he would quickly get a "Son, I am disapoint" face..and then try to explain that the saying doesnt mean if you pay more than what its worth, that it somehow magically becomes more valuable.

    ask anyone that owns an Apple product.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • infiniti70infiniti70 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 61Member

    I am still waiting to hear of the AAA F2P game that launched. GW2, like GW1, is not a MMO to me (not a disscusion for this thread. Is there a game like WoW, Rift, Lotor,  or any of the other major releases that launched as F2P?

    Are we talking in theory? Is there a game that we can actual point to and say the content, support, and gameplay was XXX compared to sub games?

    So far it seems like a long debate on what would be better without anything to reference. So if anyone can give me an actual F2P game that was not a conversion, would preciate it.

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member


    Originally posted by Crunchy222 Ok so theres a larger market of players when you dont put a paywall up...rocket science?
    Now if this wasnt typical f2p propeganda...you would see a like to something comparing paying players in p2p games vs f2p games...and i think you would see a slightly different picture.
    What is typical F2P propaganda? I feel like you have this preconceived notion that playing a F2P game is like being under the control of a fascist nation.


    I get it though...in a perfect world all games would be f2p so you all could moan and whine about the cash shop asking for money. 
    F2P players really only complain when there hasn't been a sale in a while or that a certain necessity isn't being offered enough. Often times, when players do complain, it's for a good reason like balancing, glitches, bugs, or game improvements. Generally, when a F2P player complains, it's not whining about the fact that they have to pay to get stuff. It's that the certain things cost too much in the long run of the game.


    Also...am i a f2p player?  ive played f2p games...does this make me a f2p or p2p player...because i play p2p games to....how did this magical study conducted by mystery people determine?
    How they conducted the study.


    As someone who plays both i vastly prefer p2p...by a long shot...for many...many reasons ranging from community to level play field, to how developer effort seems to shift in what they spend time on between the two. 
    I'm not sure which F2P games you are playing, but the general quality of the MMORPGs is pretty level. Community for F2P games is much broader in who plays, so yes, there might be a lower expectation for the community.


    Oh yeah i see they used SWTOR as a metric...that game is NOT free to play...just has a long trial.  Enjoy being excluded from endgame and hotbars if your free.  Forget they always gotta game the data to get the results they want.
     
    Yeah, no. SWTOR is like the lowest of the low in the F2P community for doing that (I personally consider it a P2W because of the fact that they lock your flipping hotbars). You'll find that most F2P players don't play games that exclude features like your hotbars unless you pay for them. If you look around more, you'll see the F2P universe of games is pretty similar in quality and much greater in quantity.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Who cares. I would rather play with a smaller tight knit population than a huge on the go population of passer through players. I will not play F2P games.

    And yet you are out-numbered 6 to 1.

    Who cares about tight knit population when i can play with my friends anyway.

    I do and will play F2P games ... as long as they are fun.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

    "If you were to look at the growth of the audience alone, the market for F2P games is substantially larger than that for pay-to-play. Six times larger, in fact."

    "Subscription-based MMOs have been on a decline in the US, dropping from 8.5MM in December 2009 to 6.7MM in October 2012."

    "So, yes, it would appear that F2P may be a viable revenue model, partly because of the large number of gamers it attracts. But traffic alone is not a definitive measure of success. Overall spending may follow a very different trend depending on a game’s life cycle, player base and genre.

    The good news is that in 2012, F2P MMOs made more than their P2P counterparts, capturing the majority of the MMO US market’s revenue. The tricky part lies in how to capture and replicate this success."

     

     

    I'll take "Numbers pulled out of my ass for $300, Alex".

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    RANDOM FACT OF THE DAY:

    Sheep outnumber lions 51628 to 1.

    image

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Talgen
    My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

     and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

    If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

    $702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

     

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by taus01

     

    This so called satistic tries to suggest that the F2P market is bigger and more successful. Well, thats actually complete rubbish. Of cause there are more players on F2P games but that has nothing to do with success or failure. Both models are equally successful in terms of money made.

    What you have to look at is the REAL numbers in terms of MONEY made from games in both revenue models.

    In 2012 the US had roughly 50 Million players of which 23 million payed in some form, be it monthly fees or item shops. The top countries had a total revenue of $3.1 billion for P2P and $3.4 billion for F2P. This is 50% of the global market.

     

    Check your facts people.

    The F2P market IS bigger. And it appears to be slightly more successful from a revenue standpoint based on the information you provided. And it's rate of growth has been much faster than P2P games which are actually in decline.

     

    I mean, I'm not sure why you would call it complete rubbish when the stuff you linked only helps support that F2P makes slightly more than P2P.  

    The difference is minimal. The OP and the statistic he linked suggests a 6 to 1 difference. That is simply NOT TRUE. Why you would even argue this is baffling.

    Originally posted by jtcgs

     About those facts, how much of the P2P market was World of Warcraft...oh yeah, turns out only a few P2P games are making money, turning to F2P and making MORE of it...which will turn a larger portion of that market share even higher for F2P.

    NO, as i have shown with the 2012 report, the market share is 47/53. It has noting to do with WoW or any other game. Are you simply ignoring the facts here or are you not able to understand it?

     

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Talgen
    My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

     and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

    If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

    $702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

     

    Whats insane is the F2P games that have a big emphasis on guild, clan, alliance, (insert random group), achievements and then all of the sudden, you get people not only spending that $702 dollars on themself but also on their friends and guildies.  All of the sudden, they are spending thousands and sometime tens of thousands in a single month.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rossboss

     



    How they conducted the study.

    Just focusing on that.  If you read the link you have there, and believe that Blizzard and EA are sharing their data with these yahoos, I have got a whole catalog of lovely bridges to sell you.

    Read that content in your link: Every month we collect information from 350 game titles over 50 publishers.

    I never knew there were 50 AAA MMO developers and they average 7 games a piece.

    Even if these developers were actually sharing their information with this company (again, highly debateable), it's a bunch of Farmville vs Vampire Hunter Facebook games, not SOE and Turbine.

  • RossbossRossboss Runes of Magic, TXPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Talgen
    My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

     and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

    If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

    $702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

     

    That makes no sense. Nobody ever goes out and buys access to everything in a F2P game. Nobody ever plays a P2P game in every way they possibly can, with every race and every class, and get every shiny piece of gear. It's an absolutely absurd comparison.

    I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
    I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
    I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

This discussion has been closed.