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When will there be a new game that doesn't try to hold your hand and escort you through the content?

Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYPosts: 354Member Uncommon

Why can't I just be dropped in a game world and expected to figure out what to do first?  

If I want to know how to use my sword and inventory, I'll press F1.

The first sign of a bad game to me is when you log into a tutorial.  Not only the tutorial, but no way to bypass it.

Does anyone remember those old shooter games where you moved around and shot at the screen and couldn't control where and when you moved, you just got railed around the game and had to shoot people arcade style before they shot you?  Yeah that's what MMO games are starting to feel like.

MMO games are trying to appeal to dumber and dumber people?  Younger maybe?  Really old?  I don't know.  I hate that all these mmo games are dummy proof and anyone who has at least 4 fingers and an IQ of 61 can compete.

What I'm saying is.... wheres the challenge?  I don't mean perfecting the dance routine to dodge the monsters blows, that's arcade stuff, I'm not interested.   I want to explore the world and find things.  Actually get killed and drop all my stuff once in a while. 

 

Any suggestions?

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Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon

    That game is Age of Wushu. Yes there is a stupid tutorial that you will wish would end, but after they kick you into the world with 1% of the knowledge out there, you'll be looking for a guide. So many systems most people kinda just know what they know.

     

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Try EVE. Turn off the tutorial at launch.

    Good luck!  Let me know how it turns out for you.  image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    TSW as well -- lots of thinking required on the player's part, not only for the investigations but also for the combat system.
  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYPosts: 354Member Uncommon

    Age of wushu sounds best out of these options. I know theres a fad having to do with no levels, but I wish it'd go away.  The reason they wanted to do away with levels is because they made it possible to reach the max level.  Since it was possible to reach max level in a game, they had to put all the great content at the max level.  Then since people cried about the long grind, they decided to take away the levels.  Now we basically have mmo-arcade-games.

    Even is an oldfart game with a miserable / dieing fanbase waiting for the next big thing.

    TSW is a twitch based arcade style, not only you have to think but you have to jump through the hoops at exactly the right time or gg.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    gw2 really has no tutorial and even at 80 people don't understand the games combat.. you are also free to do zones anyway you like you aren't hand held through them saying go here, here, and here.. you have heart quests that act as marker guides you can do them or not its up to you. Also i have seen numerous people rage quit over the dungeons being to hard.. mostly because they didn't build for a dungeon and can't grasp the concept of working together... but doesn't sound like you want fast paced action combat so guess gw2 wouldn't be for you.. AoW may be a better option for you

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    GW2 shows you why totorials and hand-holding are necessary to a degree. Everything that's not self-explanatory flies over people's heads. Combo fields are a pretty good example of that. They're explained in the little tutorial pop-ups and are a pretty simple concept, but shockingly many don't even know what they are or how to set them up.
  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    Why can't I just be dropped in a game world and expected to figure out what to do first?  

    If I want to know how to use my sword and inventory, I'll press F1.

    The first sign of a bad game to me is when you log into a tutorial.  Not only the tutorial, but no way to bypass it.

    Does anyone remember those old shooter games where you moved around and shot at the screen and couldn't control where and when you moved, you just got railed around the game and had to shoot people arcade style before they shot you?  Yeah that's what MMO games are starting to feel like.

    MMO games are trying to appeal to dumber and dumber people?  Younger maybe?  Really old?  I don't know.  I hate that all these mmo games are dummy proof and anyone who has at least 4 fingers and an IQ of 61 can compete.

    What I'm saying is.... wheres the challenge?  I don't mean perfecting the dance routine to dodge the monsters blows, that's arcade stuff, I'm not interested.   I want to explore the world and find things.  Actually get killed and drop all my stuff once in a while. 

     

    Any suggestions?

    image

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Lexington, KYPosts: 354Member Uncommon

    I play a bit of GW2.  My biggest turn off is that they have a different cultivating tool for every kind of cultivation.  19 different types of ore veins require you to carry 19 different pick axes. 

    Also, the combat feels arcade style again, making me dodge attacks. I don't have amazing twitch reactions, that's why I'm playing mmorpg games and not shooters.  Quite honestly, I want my character to have the chance to dodge because I trained him, I don't want to have to do it for him.

    I do understand the hybrid feel of the game where you take more control of what your character does, I really just want a good old fashioned MMORPG.  Think of original runescape or everquest with the latest and greatest graphics.  People spamming you to figure out how to open their inventory etc.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,645Member Uncommon

    Tutorials are not the issue, hell.. even EQ had one, but they go on FAR too long these days I agree.

    That aside, they have a place.

  • ichihaifuichihaifu nullPosts: 259Member Uncommon

    Well, if you want statistical combat theres WoW, aion and other similar games. But theyre going to hold your hand through the content.

    Your best bet for now would probably be GW2 but seeing you already play it. nil. Atleast no triple-A's around for now and none in horizon either.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    MMO games are trying to appeal to dumber and dumber people?  Younger maybe?  Really old?  I don't know.  I hate that all these mmo games are dummy proof and anyone who has at least 4 fingers and an IQ of 61 can compete.

     Any suggestions?

    Grey Poupon.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member

    TSW, AoW and GW2 do not actually lead your character around the world much(in Aow/gw2 case not at all really) but people still say that they do. my guess is unless it's a sandbox people will jsut call them all guided even if they aren't. for laughs though, archeage is more guided than half the themparks that have come out in the last half a year.

     

    can't wait to see how that goes over with this tough guy me love snadbox crowd.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    I play a bit of GW2.  My biggest turn off is that they have a different cultivating tool for every kind of cultivation.  19 different types of ore veins require you to carry 19 different pick axes. 

    Also, the combat feels arcade style again, making me dodge attacks. I don't have amazing twitch reactions, that's why I'm playing mmorpg games and not shooters.  Quite honestly, I want my character to have the chance to dodge because I trained him, I don't want to have to do it for him.

    I do understand the hybrid feel of the game where you take more control of what your character does, I really just want a good old fashioned MMORPG.  Think of original runescape or everquest with the latest and greatest graphics.  People spamming you to figure out how to open their inventory etc.

    LOL no you don't just buy the best kind it can cultivate ANY of the lower ones:P All cultivation items can cultivate what they made made for and any lower tier cultivation node(says so right in the item description.. aren't you the one that's complaining about hand holding and tutorials?:P) you never need more than one of each of the 3 cultivation items.. but yea if you don't care for action combat gw2 won't be for you

    also with that last part sounds like AoW is up your alley again because I had no clue what half the menu items did or were for even after the tutorial :P(although a lot is due to the translations)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • LIOKILIOKI Igloo, ABPosts: 175Member

    Sounds like to me you are looking for a game like Mortal Online. I tried it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone but it doesn't do much for hand holding. 

    GW2 lol

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

  • DzoneDzone bowling green, KYPosts: 351Member Uncommon
    umm i know a game that drops you off in a world, and gives you no hint why your even there. Its not an MMO, but its a classic, that game was MYST. Really gota use your noggin for that one.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    Age of wushu sounds best out of these options. I know theres a fad having to do with no levels, but I wish it'd go away.  The reason they wanted to do away with levels is because they made it possible to reach the max level.  Since it was possible to reach max level in a game, they had to put all the great content at the max level.  Then since people cried about the long grind, they decided to take away the levels.  Now we basically have mmo-arcade-games.

    Even is an oldfart game with a miserable / dieing fanbase waiting for the next big thing.

    TSW is a twitch based arcade style, not only you have to think but you have to jump through the hoops at exactly the right time or gg.

    I know what EVE is, apparently you don't, let me educate you.

    It is one of the longest running MMO's in the business, has been growing its subscriber base steadily (if slowly) since launch and now is somewhere around 400K subs  which would make it more popular than about 90% of the MMO's out there.

    The fanbase is neither miserable or dying, in fact many probably can't envision ever really leaving, there's nothing quite like EVE out there, but I will agree, it does not appeal to a very large segment of the greater playerbase.

    When they turn the lights out on this genre, EVE and it's players will likely be the last folks standing in the reckage.

    Anyways, you asked if there was a game that doesn't try to hold your hand, no one can accuse EVE of doing that, even if you were to take the 3-4 hours to do the tutorials.  (you still wouldn't have a clue what to do next)

    How about DFUW, it's in beta now, and certainly won't be holding anyone's hands.

    You know, you really can't have a challenging MMO but keep turning your nose up at MMO's that have difficulty built into them in terms of requiring you to think, or use some coordination to master the content.

    They just aren't going to remake EQ1, sorry, EQNEXT will likely have designs you don't care for either. (including a good tutorial)

     

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    Age of wushu sounds best out of these options. I know theres a fad having to do with no levels, but I wish it'd go away.  The reason they wanted to do away with levels is because they made it possible to reach the max level.  Since it was possible to reach max level in a game, they had to put all the great content at the max level.  Then since people cried about the long grind, they decided to take away the levels.  Now we basically have mmo-arcade-games.

    Even is an oldfart game with a miserable / dieing fanbase waiting for the next big thing.

    TSW is a twitch based arcade style, not only you have to think but you have to jump through the hoops at exactly the right time or gg.

    I know what EVE is, apparently you don't, let me educate you.

    Oh, challenge issued with a dart to the E(ve)go.

    This thread could get nasty.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    I play a bit of GW2.  My biggest turn off is that they have a different cultivating tool for every kind of cultivation.  19 different types of ore veins require you to carry 19 different pick axes. 

    Also, the combat feels arcade style again, making me dodge attacks. I don't have amazing twitch reactions, that's why I'm playing mmorpg games and not shooters.  Quite honestly, I want my character to have the chance to dodge because I trained him, I don't want to have to do it for him.

    I do understand the hybrid feel of the game where you take more control of what your character does, I really just want a good old fashioned MMORPG.  Think of original runescape or everquest with the latest and greatest graphics.  People spamming you to figure out how to open their inventory etc.

     

    So Mr Intelligent, why is it you cannot work out that a high level pick axe/scythe/axe can mine all nodes? do you understand the meaning of irony? I'd take Kylerans idea or my suggestion is Wurm online get back to me when you've worked out how to build a house and stayed alive long enough to actually build one and do it all on a wild server.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Im waiting to see if Everquest next will be more like EQ1 and doesnt hold your hand, guess ill probaly find out in august during the fanfaire if not probaly end of the year i reckon it come out im being optommistic of course. SoE did it once before with EQ im hoping they can do it again.
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILPosts: 1,710Member Uncommon
    There are a bunch of sandbox type games that are coming out that don't look to have hand holding.  Sadly they aren't here yet, but I can't wait.  The first one out of the shoot should be DFUW.  Whether you like the game or don't, I don't think you can argue that it doesn't hold your hand.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • steelheartxsteelheartx Biloxi, MSPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    @sanshi44....u and me both :)

    Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Abuz0r

    Age of wushu sounds best out of these options. I know theres a fad having to do with no levels, but I wish it'd go away.  The reason they wanted to do away with levels is because they made it possible to reach the max level.  Since it was possible to reach max level in a game, they had to put all the great content at the max level.  Then since people cried about the long grind, they decided to take away the levels.  Now we basically have mmo-arcade-games.

    Even is an oldfart game with a miserable / dieing fanbase waiting for the next big thing.

    TSW is a twitch based arcade style, not only you have to think but you have to jump through the hoops at exactly the right time or gg.

    I know what EVE is, apparently you don't, let me educate you.

    Oh, challenge issued with a dart to the E(ve)go.

    This thread could get nasty.

    Naw, it isn't any challenge at all really.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon

    Yeh I think Age of Wushu is your best bet as far as lack of hand holding goes.  The real test though is to see if you will actually like playing that game.

     

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    gw2 really has no tutorial and even at 80 people don't understand the games combat.. you are also free to do zones anyway you like you aren't hand held through them saying go here, here, and here.. you have heart quests that act as marker guides you can do them or not its up to you. Also i have seen numerous people rage quit over the dungeons being to hard.. mostly because they didn't build for a dungeon and can't grasp the concept of working together... but doesn't sound like you want fast paced action combat so guess gw2 wouldn't be for you.. AoW may be a better option for you

    Aero are you freaking serious?  GW2 is the biggest offender of what hes talking about I dont think you have any idea what hes looking for. And he clearly said hes not bothered by action combat just dont use it to as an example of complex hard or deep gameplay.  I had fun for the brief amount of time GW2 held my attention but its as shallow and repetitive as the next modern MMO and dumbs some things down to a new level.

    I cant think of a single game coming down that pipe that might interest him, not archeage certainly not TESO, I dont know MAYBE pathfinder but thats a big wait and see.  EVE is well its EVE, unless your into space ships just forget it.

    MMO's as a whole just dont challenge anymore they are all about convenience, convenient travel, easy leveling, easy gathering, easy exploring, ohh look over here where the big heart is etc.

    Anything still around with any depth unfortunately looks like cats ass.

    I totally feel this guys pain.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn
    There are a bunch of sandbox type games that are coming out that don't look to have hand holding.  Sadly they aren't here yet, but I can't wait.  The first one out of the shoot should be DFUW.  Whether you like the game or don't, I don't think you can argue that it doesn't hold your hand.

    No DFUW is an FPS PvP full loot gank fest, its not a replacement for UO or SWG or something along those lines. If you dont want to run around ganking and looting other people about the only thing you can do is gather and get ganked and looted or try to PVE and get ganked and looted.  Thats about it.  You cannot argue these facts.  Oh and by the way I do play it.

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