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IF a mmorpg company listened to their community 99% would the game be better?

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  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member
    No. Customers are idiots.

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by phantomghost

    Impossible.  Look at any game and any post.  Almost all of the suggestions are hated by other players.  Very few suggestions have better than 80% acceptance.  So, in the end they would change something, then a contradicting suggestion would change that... and before you know it the game does not work.

     

    So no, never, impossible.

    This ^

    I'm surprised the question is even being asked, but am glad to see most people seem to know it's an asburd notion. The gaming community is notorious for contradicting itself, and demanding things that are blatantly detremental towards the games they love.

    This isn't to say that there aren't some phenominal user-created content, but that's mostly created by a very small percentage of the user base. The rest tends to be mostly crap.

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    sorry, I found I don't have enough options for answer.

    I voted "NO" but it's not at all accurate.
    I would rather tell "yes" for listen and "no" to make ALL asked changes.

    example: guy here told about runescape devs will open 2007 server on community request. IMO, good example of fail to act like 8 years after. Why they never took in concentration over 1k thread and like tons of people signed against 2007 changes?

    WoW to me is better designed now for LARGE group of players then it was at the start, beside you are looking for challenge, you have Heroic Mod. So problem of WoW is not here, Blizzard do listen (I recall how long I chated with GM for like any kind of issue), but not always do what people asking, and for purpose.

    Good dev always listen, but not always DO what people asking for.

    Also depends what games suggest and how many others will support him.

    Example: we never got problem to add more costume / mount skin to Item Shop, as it all benefit for both sides. Just took few time to do it and: here you are, devs can't loose with such extra.

    Example: GW1 did major nerf every player hated and "killed" game but never could admit they did wrong.

    Example: seems GW2 listen to players and approved drop rate, good idea as many player can enjoy rewards for efforts made, hope they will not change their mind.

    and BEST example would be any game with non-censored forum, where people talk about anything else but general game problems.

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    I submit that players THINK they know what they want. Then they change their mind. Myself included... I don't know what the hell it is I'm looking for.... I pay them for the game so they can do the work lol.
  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by dmartination
    If a mmorpg company listend to their community 99% and the devs 1% do you think the game would be a lot better? Or 50 50? I am saying this because every game I play everyone says the company does not listen.

    I think you just need to see the rather vitriolic disagreements in these forums to realise that we could never reach a 'one fits all' game design.  Better that a developer has a vision and realises it for a more limited audience.  

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    No, since unfortunately there are so many conflicting views of what the game should do that it would make it impossible to please everyone for one, and two a lot of people want one thing yet if given it they aren't very likely to stick around.

    A good example would be casuals often craving stuff to be easier. If a developer made it that way all the time, the game would likely lose its population fast? Why? Because casuals will likely become bored of the game themselves and quit it after they have been given everything already.  Why play a game when you have nothing to gain out of it, specially with such a large amount of MMO to play?

    Don't get me wrong, they SHOULD listen to the community, but if the did everything the community wanted, specially with a heavy casual influence its going to lead to poor choices that will likely make the game passed over that much more quickly by the casual base who wanted those changes. Of course not saying to impliment some things hardcore gamers might want either, they have their own flaws.

  • EdeusEdeus Stamford, CTPosts: 506Member

    I like the results lol... they are so one-sided makes you wonder what the OP was thinking?

     

    As others have said, community is screaming for 20 different things, and the one thing they all agree on is no taxes... oh wait, wrong discussion.

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    Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    It would be extraordinarily difficult to access the detailed opinions of 99% of the playerbase, or to even find a player pool that is representative of the entire playerbase.  If you're talking about forum posters, they are in the extreme minority of overall gamers; and it's impossible to tell how representative their views are of players who never post on forums or never even visit forums.  One thing we do know is that forum-goers tend to be a little more passionate about gaming as a major hobby in their lives, which automatically makes their interests a little different from the rest (the majority) of players playing the game. 

    Another obvious issue here is that you will never something 99% of people can agree on.  That is, of 99% of the gaming population, you will find players fighting and disagreeing on every single design feature and philosophy.  Which players do you listen to?  There is no 99% body with a unified set of opinions and ideas.  It doesn't exist. 

    For the very same reason that people playing a particular game have very different gaming interests and desires, you will inevitably find thousands of players who are unhappy with a particular feature in every single game.  The old adage that you cannot please everyone holds true.  Nevertheless, people (especially the passionate forum-goers) like to voice their opinions and complain.  Thus the constant posts the OP referenced. 

  • casual187casual187 omaha, NEPosts: 32Member
    To quote a famous football coach "If you start listining to the fans in the seats, you will soon be one of them"
  • BrooksTechBrooksTech Canton, ILPosts: 163Member

    No. 

    Only the vocal minority would get what they want.  And most of the time it would be the worst possible outcome.  Just look at 99% of all posts on these forums for any  proof you need.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Edeus

    and the one thing they all agree on is no taxes...

    I think you're entirely too optimistic--mmorpg.com version:

    Taxes are the soul of hardco, yo, payin' more taxes is vital for mah sense of achievement.

    What are you, nuts? WTH do taxes have to do with difficulty?

    Goddamn carebearz, always wanting their ezmode non-taxation.

    (etc., we all know how these go following the opening volleys)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dmartination
    hah dang didn't think this topic would get big lol..

    It is a mmorpg.com type mainsteam thread. You can answer it simply by looking at the title. Nice and convinent, little thought required.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    how is this even a question? isn't it obvious how impossible it is to implement 99% of all suggestions? everyone wants different things. I suppose given a trillion dollar budget where the company could open countless shards with different rulesets, it might be possible .. but it will never happen.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • apb2011apb2011 Quebec city, QCPosts: 153Member Common

    95% of big game developers make games for the profit. That is it. In theory if they listen to the community they will in turn make a good game which will generate money.

    You have to factor in greed, when you do then you will understand why they make games and do not or only paritally listen to their audience.

    I cannot break down the schematics of how this works, i'm sure most of you get it though.

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.

    That sounded a little like 'nonsense speak' mate.  Yeah developer should create their own vision, but that is a small part of selling a game, and so small as to not invalidate other people's views

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
     
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.

     The developers vision has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION.

    A game being "better" is based on the opinion of the person asking and thus "a company listening" would mean listening to YOU...and since nobody is going to ask for something they DONT WANT...it would mean you asking for something YOU want.

    So, if you think a game wont be better because of something YOU want being in it...then, lol...total ban for actually saying what you are.

    He asked a trap question, you fell for it hard.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by MightyChasm

    Originally posted by botrytis

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Originally posted by n00n3r In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  
     Read his question again. Anyone voting no is not reading. How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol... Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.
    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.
    That sounded a little like 'nonsense speak' mate.  Yeah developer should create their own vision, but that is a small part of selling a game, and so small as to not invalidate other people's views

    1000 players want a skill based game where you raise certain skills, but don't have levels.

    1000 players want a tree based skill system with levels.

    50% of what the players want will not be in the game, and this is an over simplified example. There are 100s of variations of the two basic ideas I just posted. In the end YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • MightyChasmMightyChasm londonPosts: 298Member
    Originally posted by azmundai

     


    Originally posted by MightyChasm

    Originally posted by botrytis

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Originally posted by n00n3r In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  
     Read his question again. Anyone voting no is not reading. How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol... Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.
    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.
    That sounded a little like 'nonsense speak' mate.  Yeah developer should create their own vision, but that is a small part of selling a game, and so small as to not invalidate other people's views

     

    1000 players want a skill based game where you raise certain skills, but don't have levels.

    1000 players want a tree based skill system with levels.

    50% of what the players want will not be in the game, and this is an over simplified example. There are 100s of variations of the two basic ideas I just posted. In the end YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

    were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? 

  • Blazer6992Blazer6992 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 606Member Uncommon

       Look at what happened with SWG. They had a great game and then started listening to what everyone was saying, then made those changes and the game went to crap and eventually shut down. All because they listened.

     

  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    The head dev needs to understand the community. He needs to be able to see tends and make accurate judgments about what players want.

    He needs to have a game in mind, a vision born of what he knows and what he feels people want.

    He should be fluid, so he can make changes when something isn't working.

    He needs to be a leader. Hire the right people. Make sure the work he wants done is getting done the way he wants it.

    He needs to be able to listen to others and take criticism.

    He needs to realistically be able to look at what he wants to make vs what he can make.

    And finally. He can't tied his vision to his ego.  He has to accept he can be wrong.

     

    I think people are confusing "people crying on forums" with the playerbase as a whole.  I think after games go live devs do try to listen to the community. They have tons of game data telling when what is working and what isn't.

    Should they listen to players on the forums? With a gain of salt, but they shouldn't just change things base on that imput alone.

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by botrytis
     
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.

     The developers vision has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION.

    A game being "better" is based on the opinion of the person asking and thus "a company listening" would mean listening to YOU...and since nobody is going to ask for something they DONT WANT...it would mean you asking for something YOU want.

    So, if you think a game wont be better because of something YOU want being in it...then, lol...total ban for actually saying what you are.

    He asked a trap question, you fell for it hard.

    I said no because FANS say they want one thing but will play something else because it is what they are used to not what they want. Example, look at how people play the game Rift. There are so many neat build but they all pare down to Warrior = Tank, Cleric = Healer, Rouge, Ele = DPS. People want things to fit in their comfort zone not what is outside of it.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by botrytis
     
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by n00n3r

    In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

     Read his question again.

    Anyone voting no is not reading.

    How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol...

    Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead

    The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.

    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.

     The developers vision has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION.

    A game being "better" is based on the opinion of the person asking and thus "a company listening" would mean listening to YOU...and since nobody is going to ask for something they DONT WANT...it would mean you asking for something YOU want.

    So, if you think a game wont be better because of something YOU want being in it...then, lol...total ban for actually saying what you are.

    He asked a trap question, you fell for it hard.

    I said no because FANS say they want one thing but will play something else because it is what they are used to not what they want. Example, look at how people play the game Rift. There are so many neat build but they all pare down to Warrior = Tank, Cleric = Healer, Rouge, Ele = DPS. People want things to fit in their comfort zone not what is outside of it.

    Do you mean all warriors end up being tanks, all clerics end up being healers and all mages and rogues end up being dps? Because I am a cleric tank, my guild's main healer is a mage and we have several warriors who only dps.....

    If you mean that in the end, Rift has the trinity; you are right.

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by MightyChasm
    Originally posted by azmundai   Originally posted by MightyChasm Originally posted by botrytis Originally posted by jtcgs Originally posted by n00n3r In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  
     Read his question again. Anyone voting no is not reading. How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol... Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.
    I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.
    That sounded a little like 'nonsense speak' mate.  Yeah developer should create their own vision, but that is a small part of selling a game, and so small as to not invalidate other people's views
      1000 players want a skill based game where you raise certain skills, but don't have levels. 1000 players want a tree based skill system with levels. 50% of what the players want will not be in the game, and this is an over simplified example. There are 100s of variations of the two basic ideas I just posted. In the end YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.
    were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? 

    if I had to guess, id say neither, or both.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

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