1.Great incentive to work together, In Asherons call it was free passup exp from vassels,community is the best of any mmo i have ever played.People jump at the chance to help and get you flaged cause they benefit a ton from helping you.
2.Fierce competition and freedom to attack and destroy the work of others brings out the worse of players, that community will have highly unfriendly and toxic sections of community but a lot of people play games for just this reason the fear of being attacked and a competitive environment . In order for this to work and have a good community being a douche needs to be punished severely.
First: Look at communities 5-8 years ago, whey want to play and change games. Now game companies have all the players deep in a*s. Player/Gamer is only a moneymaker for next DLC or next SAME game ( look at Crysis 3 - no new ideas just same crap like in Crysis 2). If we dont vote for good games in ours vallets, we never get a good games. Screw EA, Blizzard ano others "big game developers" who only make a next part of old games. Player/Gamer knows which game is good or bad, dont believe in advertisement..
*I know my english is not perfect but is not my first language.
Unfortunately the OP doesn't seem to understand the meaning of a community.
Seems like there are as many meanings as there are people. Huh, go figure. Have you not noticed the fifty insular little viewpoints prior to yours? All different?
I wish the op luck, grasping the indefinable. But I suspect, like most of us, he can't/won't grasp any concept of 'community' that's terribly different from his own (as exemplified by his own personal favorite past game).
By all means, let's watch what his efforts turn up.
But try to define what a similar conceptual, say "Family" means, just within a single culture, and how many different ways it can be explained and expressed--yet, in the end, no two are identical.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What makes for a good community? Well in my opinion people coming together to help one another helps to build communities. People talking and chatting and overall being social helps build communities.
Most games these days are designed these days to cater to the solo crowd. They are also designed Around the philosophy that everyone has to be rewarded, which has lead to enforcing the ME ME ME mentality. In older games while people still wanted to advance their characters they spent a lot of their time coming together to overcome challenges for other people instead of themselves. Entire raids would be coordinated to help one member of a a guild achieve something they have been working towards.
Wow had this in the eary days even. It's just now something that is no longer there for the most part. The games throw out loot for everyone. If it doesnt. People seem to have no interest in participating.
Difficulty breeds community. When you have a game like WOW, where you can solo most of the content, easily procure mats, and have nothing communal to achieve or protect. Why expect a community to develop? Most will agree the earlier MMOs (EQ, AC, UO) were much more challenging than what we see today, and the result was players working together to achieve personal goals.
Now we have auction house, then we had trade chat. Now we have dungeon finder, then we had guilds, or towns where we would meet to join for an adventure. Now we have the ability to run dungeons 50 times in a day, then we had CDs and a careful selected band of heros.
Think I agree here. TSW has a bit of a learning curve, and chat in the starter zone is always buzzing with questions as people are getting started. The thing is, that has brought a lot lot helpful posts there as well, lots of people pitching in as well as just general chatting. It's not always perfect, but I think the initial difficulty has sparked a friendlier community.
Just kidding!!! I think you may have hit the nail on the head, Christina.
I feel you missed a sub-group, though, and it's a rather important one. Those who tend to ignore the community, such as myself. For my part, I think the LotRO community is pretty awesome, at least on Dwarrowdelf; if someone asks a question, and I'm paying attention to chat, I will take the time to try and answer it. However, normally by the time I've done so, one or two other responses, regardless of where I am in the game, have either already been made, or are made almost immediately after mine. That's pretty special. When I have a question -yes, I may have been playing for a while, but I still have questions not answered by LotRO Wiki- it's the very same thing. Several answers come from the aether and, normally, they're respectful and inciteful, even if succinct.
Having played World of Warcraft from November 24th, 2004 to late 2006, and then another one month stint in 2008, I can tell you the community there started a bit rough, though mostly helpful, but over the years it filled quickly with whiners, and the vocal minority took over. Not having played since then, I couldn't tell you whether the strong survived or not, the good and helpful folks, but if what my cousin has told me is any indication, it has not.
I mentioned the third sub-group, those who don't pay attention to the community, and that's me. When I log in, I'm interested in deeding so I can afford the next expansion or quest pack -Misty Mountains, here I come- or finishing tasks -not quests- so I can move on successfully to a new area, though I continue to find new quests in lower-level areas -I have performed almost all of my trivial tasks since beginning, on each of three characters. However, if someone asks for my help, and they actually talk to me about it, rather than simply trying to invite me to their Fellowship, I will normally go and help them; this is doubly true if I find out I have one of the enormous number of Fellowship and Small Fellowship quests you simply cannot advance in the game without, or without grinding your way to 50 -thanks Turbine, no love fo' ya.
I'm looking forward to reading more of your articles, Christina, though I would like you to write them, then put them away for a day or two, bring them back out and read them so you complete thoughts missed or incomplete, please?
Well, whatever it takes to make a good community it would seem Tera has none of it...Global is WoWs barrens chat to the extreme and Area chat on the starting island is filled with royal azzhats, I didnt even get off the island before exiting and uninstalling it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
SWG had a pretty good one, no problems for new people to get help. Even after NGE when vets had no incentive helping newcomers they often got out of their way to help out.
Respect for your fellow players goes a long way and is not dependent on mechanics. By that I mean recognizing that they have as much right to be in the game as you and acting accordingly. Sadly many of the younger people thinks that respect is about being the best pvp player or the bigges most foul mouthed bully. In RL I guess it would translate into fear. Respect and fear are not the same thing.
From gaming since 2002 and still to date with mmos and having done tabletop games I have to say the sense of community for mmorpgs has declined. What was once an area to help others, meet new friends and scream "bunnyhooter" evil ganker are slowly dwindling. The sense of how pimp your gear is vs hey I got a hour to burn think ill help this random newb grind by giving them free heals. I have played various games and some communities like D3,wow, EQ2 jut made me want to quit. It was the amount of people Bering ing holds saying I'm he best or I'm to good to even associate with others that has made me view community and communication with others as a dying format. Look at the various message boards on the net they are called anonymous for a reason. No one need know how much of a troll/jerk you are out six of the house. The fenominom of Xbox360/ps3 and other do soul games have brought the art of trashing a community rather than have a good Ike be comptitive to gutter level thinking. I want to see and find better communities to be in. Sadly to those groups has become harder as of late on account various groups play games and it was not the groups of high school kids playing DnD. I can only hope pile will slowly go back to the less jerkoff aggressive attitude and move towards a more mellow welcoming good natured crowd.
playing with friends and/or having people in the game who are open for and willing to make new internet/gaming friends. preferring group play and playing together than soloing all the way. (i dont mean those people who have real life issues like a baby and can just play solo most of the times)
Originally posted by freerangegames Participation (or lack of participation) by developers and/or publishers is another factor that can influence whether a community is good or bad.
I remember when developers were still allowed to participate. And you do have a point; there was considerably less hostility before the consumer mob grew too large and hostile to deal with directly.
Once the legal teams issued gag-orders, any sense of cooperation between staff and players was essentially lost.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
As others have mentioned, games like SWG had combat, non-combat, and social gameplay paths, and this drew in a much more diverse player base including more *real* women than I have seen in any other MMO. The gameplay mechanics gave people a reason to work together to accomplish their goals, both large and small. The design created horizontal gameplay which allowed people to slow down end enjoy each other rather than racing toward some end game. Your standard themepark game does not cater to creative minds, people interested in politics, entertaining, crafting and running a shop full time, doing science, etc.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I think the community is a mirror of the game mechanics. If the game just is about you gaining power you will get selfish players while if it is more of a team effort you will get more social people that help eachother out.
The whole need and greed mechanics really doesnt help either, it brings out the worst in many people and leads to plenty of squabble. Let people get individual loot instead, it is an easy fix that would solve a lot of squabbling. You can always show rolls for the loot anyways if you must (the usual argument for need and greed seems to be that it is exciting to roll for the loot) but dont let people pick if the need the stuff or not.
Social Professions / Skills: Musicians, Dancers, Gamblers, Architects, Beauticians, Politicians, Criminal-Crafting (fake IDs, fencing, drugs) etc. Moreover, player-generated content, e.g., player cities and outlets.
There were 4+ year veterans in SWG that had never held a single weapon.
As an ex-SWG player, I played as an adventurer. It was always so much more fulfilling when visiting town and experiencing all the real-playerhustle 'n bustle. The games of today don't offer that, which is why they all feel so lifeless and cheap.
It's not possible for me to agree more to this statement. You need to bring the meta-game (forum) community into the game. Social professions are a fantastic way to do this. Even in a PvP game you still need to create a game world.
Whatever the kind of community you want to create - for example you might want an orc faction to be nasty - needs a carrot and stick approach. The consequences of behaving in a way you want to encourage should be good and the consequences of behaving in a way you want to discourage should be bad.
Community is best seen though global chat. Many sub segments of the community exist outside of global chat, however, global chat is what new players enter as the doorway to the community, and can make or break a good community.
I can remember back when conversations took place in global chat. Yeah there were clowns and mean people ect...but the general flow of chat was a conversation that many people participated in.
Now its something vastly different.
Currently global chat is the text version of meme's. Argument bailting. gerneally speaking global chat in just about every game is void of any real conversation. Yeah youll get conversations where one guy says alienware is best, another guy will jump in and agree, 15 people will pretend that this isnt a troll bait meme argument starter and suggest alienware is dell and not that good/overpriced 20 other people will jump in stating alienware sucks. Thats not a conversation since just about every party is playing a role within a text version of a meme. One guy player the moron and the rest fall into place.
This type of communicating is exteneded across every new joke, popular media figures and scenarios. Its boring. its annoying. Its like 4chan is in the game and replaced thinking people with who can make the funniest forum post content, or the most ridiculous statement contest.
This is why communities are terrible, this is what occupies the public space of games. No more conversations, just white noice, meme's, arguments...most of it being fake with all parties involved "trolling".
People as a whole now days are rude, never mind the age debate because it dont matter. Give a game enough time and all the rift raft and game hoppers will leave for greener pastures and what you will have left are the true fans of the game. And that is where the good community truly lies.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Comments
[mod edit]
Hi
1.Great incentive to work together, In Asherons call it was free passup exp from vassels,community is the best of any mmo i have ever played.People jump at the chance to help and get you flaged cause they benefit a ton from helping you.
2.Fierce competition and freedom to attack and destroy the work of others brings out the worse of players, that community will have highly unfriendly and toxic sections of community but a lot of people play games for just this reason the fear of being attacked and a competitive environment . In order for this to work and have a good community being a douche needs to be punished severely.
First: Look at communities 5-8 years ago, whey want to play and change games. Now game companies have all the players deep in a*s. Player/Gamer is only a moneymaker for next DLC or next SAME game ( look at Crysis 3 - no new ideas just same crap like in Crysis 2). If we dont vote for good games in ours vallets, we never get a good games. Screw EA, Blizzard ano others "big game developers" who only make a next part of old games. Player/Gamer knows which game is good or bad, dont believe in advertisement..
*I know my english is not perfect but is not my first language.
Sort of backs up my post doesn't it? ;-)
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Seems like there are as many meanings as there are people. Huh, go figure. Have you not noticed the fifty insular little viewpoints prior to yours? All different?
I wish the op luck, grasping the indefinable. But I suspect, like most of us, he can't/won't grasp any concept of 'community' that's terribly different from his own (as exemplified by his own personal favorite past game).
By all means, let's watch what his efforts turn up.
But try to define what a similar conceptual, say "Family" means, just within a single culture, and how many different ways it can be explained and expressed--yet, in the end, no two are identical.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
It's all sarts in your family, realy, good and bad.
On the net they show true nature of self and respect to others.
People tend to rulle over each other, those who have more power rulles, and those who, well can't? make a bad community.
Think I agree here. TSW has a bit of a learning curve, and chat in the starter zone is always buzzing with questions as people are getting started. The thing is, that has brought a lot lot helpful posts there as well, lots of people pitching in as well as just general chatting. It's not always perfect, but I think the initial difficulty has sparked a friendlier community.
THIS ARTICLE SUCKS!!!
Just kidding!!! I think you may have hit the nail on the head, Christina.
I feel you missed a sub-group, though, and it's a rather important one. Those who tend to ignore the community, such as myself. For my part, I think the LotRO community is pretty awesome, at least on Dwarrowdelf; if someone asks a question, and I'm paying attention to chat, I will take the time to try and answer it. However, normally by the time I've done so, one or two other responses, regardless of where I am in the game, have either already been made, or are made almost immediately after mine. That's pretty special. When I have a question -yes, I may have been playing for a while, but I still have questions not answered by LotRO Wiki- it's the very same thing. Several answers come from the aether and, normally, they're respectful and inciteful, even if succinct.
Having played World of Warcraft from November 24th, 2004 to late 2006, and then another one month stint in 2008, I can tell you the community there started a bit rough, though mostly helpful, but over the years it filled quickly with whiners, and the vocal minority took over. Not having played since then, I couldn't tell you whether the strong survived or not, the good and helpful folks, but if what my cousin has told me is any indication, it has not.
I mentioned the third sub-group, those who don't pay attention to the community, and that's me. When I log in, I'm interested in deeding so I can afford the next expansion or quest pack -Misty Mountains, here I come- or finishing tasks -not quests- so I can move on successfully to a new area, though I continue to find new quests in lower-level areas -I have performed almost all of my trivial tasks since beginning, on each of three characters. However, if someone asks for my help, and they actually talk to me about it, rather than simply trying to invite me to their Fellowship, I will normally go and help them; this is doubly true if I find out I have one of the enormous number of Fellowship and Small Fellowship quests you simply cannot advance in the game without, or without grinding your way to 50 -thanks Turbine, no love fo' ya.
I'm looking forward to reading more of your articles, Christina, though I would like you to write them, then put them away for a day or two, bring them back out and read them so you complete thoughts missed or incomplete, please?
Thanks.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
SWG had a pretty good one, no problems for new people to get help. Even after NGE when vets had no incentive helping newcomers they often got out of their way to help out.
Respect for your fellow players goes a long way and is not dependent on mechanics. By that I mean recognizing that they have as much right to be in the game as you and acting accordingly. Sadly many of the younger people thinks that respect is about being the best pvp player or the bigges most foul mouthed bully. In RL I guess it would translate into fear. Respect and fear are not the same thing.
I have played various games and some communities like D3,wow, EQ2 jut made me want to quit. It was the amount of people Bering ing holds saying I'm he best or I'm to good to even associate with others that has made me view community and communication with others as a dying format.
Look at the various message boards on the net they are called anonymous for a reason. No one need know how much of a troll/jerk you are out six of the house. The fenominom of Xbox360/ps3 and other do soul games have brought the art of trashing a community rather than have a good Ike be comptitive to gutter level thinking.
I want to see and find better communities to be in. Sadly to those groups has become harder as of late on account various groups play games and it was not the groups of high school kids playing DnD. I can only hope pile will slowly go back to the less jerkoff aggressive attitude and move towards a more mellow welcoming good natured crowd.
Once upon a time....
FRG, devs for FreeFall Tournament
playing with friends and/or having people in the game who are open for and willing to make new internet/gaming friends. preferring group play and playing together than soloing all the way. (i dont mean those people who have real life issues like a baby and can just play solo most of the times)
btw, i also prefer christina....
I remember when developers were still allowed to participate. And you do have a point; there was considerably less hostility before the consumer mob grew too large and hostile to deal with directly.
Once the legal teams issued gag-orders, any sense of cooperation between staff and players was essentially lost.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
As others have mentioned, games like SWG had combat, non-combat, and social gameplay paths, and this drew in a much more diverse player base including more *real* women than I have seen in any other MMO. The gameplay mechanics gave people a reason to work together to accomplish their goals, both large and small. The design created horizontal gameplay which allowed people to slow down end enjoy each other rather than racing toward some end game. Your standard themepark game does not cater to creative minds, people interested in politics, entertaining, crafting and running a shop full time, doing science, etc.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I think the community is a mirror of the game mechanics. If the game just is about you gaining power you will get selfish players while if it is more of a team effort you will get more social people that help eachother out.
The whole need and greed mechanics really doesnt help either, it brings out the worst in many people and leads to plenty of squabble. Let people get individual loot instead, it is an easy fix that would solve a lot of squabbling. You can always show rolls for the loot anyways if you must (the usual argument for need and greed seems to be that it is exciting to roll for the loot) but dont let people pick if the need the stuff or not.
It's not possible for me to agree more to this statement. You need to bring the meta-game (forum) community into the game. Social professions are a fantastic way to do this. Even in a PvP game you still need to create a game world.
Well said.
www.ygworlds.net
Consequences.
Whatever the kind of community you want to create - for example you might want an orc faction to be nasty - needs a carrot and stick approach. The consequences of behaving in a way you want to encourage should be good and the consequences of behaving in a way you want to discourage should be bad.
Community is best seen though global chat. Many sub segments of the community exist outside of global chat, however, global chat is what new players enter as the doorway to the community, and can make or break a good community.
I can remember back when conversations took place in global chat. Yeah there were clowns and mean people ect...but the general flow of chat was a conversation that many people participated in.
Now its something vastly different.
Currently global chat is the text version of meme's. Argument bailting. gerneally speaking global chat in just about every game is void of any real conversation. Yeah youll get conversations where one guy says alienware is best, another guy will jump in and agree, 15 people will pretend that this isnt a troll bait meme argument starter and suggest alienware is dell and not that good/overpriced 20 other people will jump in stating alienware sucks. Thats not a conversation since just about every party is playing a role within a text version of a meme. One guy player the moron and the rest fall into place.
This type of communicating is exteneded across every new joke, popular media figures and scenarios. Its boring. its annoying. Its like 4chan is in the game and replaced thinking people with who can make the funniest forum post content, or the most ridiculous statement contest.
This is why communities are terrible, this is what occupies the public space of games. No more conversations, just white noice, meme's, arguments...most of it being fake with all parties involved "trolling".
What makes a good community? Time
People as a whole now days are rude, never mind the age debate because it dont matter. Give a game enough time and all the rift raft and game hoppers will leave for greener pastures and what you will have left are the true fans of the game. And that is where the good community truly lies.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...