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[Column] The Secret World: Quiet on the Front?

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Comments

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

    image
  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

    If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

    If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

    The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

    It looks like WoW mob pulling.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

    If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

    If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

    The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

    It looks like WoW mob pulling.

    Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

    Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

    MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

    image
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Randayn

    The combat in TSW is a very "Thinking" style combat.  You must align every skill with each other....that's why they call it "synergy" cuz that's what it does.  

     

    The difference between a poorly put together build and a well built build is night and day.  And no, Rift does not offer the same depth.  It just offers several builds that will mirror each other from player to player.  

    It's really funny that combat always comes up as a deterent...I'd consider it a one of it's strength's.  Im so sick of the "new" action type combat...if I wanted action combat Id play an action console game or mortal combat....Im playing an RPG damnit...I want to think about my build before I go fight...not rely on twitch movement to make the difference.

    As for having to move out of the way with dodge...it's really not that difficult and your build plays a much bigger part than this mechanic in most cases.

    I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

    The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

    My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

     

    Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

     

    P.S.

    Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

    You make me like charity

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

    If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

    If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

    The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

    It looks like WoW mob pulling.

    Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

    Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

    MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

    I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

    Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

    You make me like charity

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

    The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

    My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

     

    Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

     

    P.S.

    Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

    Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

    As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

    image
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

    If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

    If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

    The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

    It looks like WoW mob pulling.

    Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

    Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

    MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

    I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

    Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

    Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

    again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

    image
  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Randayn
    I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

    The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

    My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

     

    Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

     

    P.S.

    Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

    Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

    As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

    Once again, my build was fine and I had DPS gear.  It still takes 20 seconds or so to kill anything in my area (second zone), which wouldn't be so bad if it was a FUN 20 econds, but it really just ends up being (combo builder x5 + finisher for each weapon)2.  Maybe throw in a cooldown every other fight for some extra crits which shave a second or two off.  For groups, it's much the same, just with AOE-focused skills.

    There's nothing compelling about that.  It's literally 3 or 4 buttons to press, per fight, with one button being used 90% of the time.

    You make me like charity

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    Originally posted by Randayn

    I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

    Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

    Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

    again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

    Neither of those games has much of a story.  Eve has the epic story arcs, I suppose, but they were pretty uninteresting and ammounted to little more than a basic questline with a few player choices, from my experience.

    You make me like charity

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Randayn
    I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

    The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

    My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

     

    Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

     

    P.S.

    Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

    Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

    As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

    Once again, my build was fine and I had DPS gear.  It still takes 20 seconds or so to kill anything in my area (second zone), which wouldn't be so bad if it was a FUN 20 econds, but it really just ends up being (combo builder x5 + finisher for each weapon)2.  Maybe throw in a cooldown every other fight for some extra crits which shave a second or two off.  For groups, it's much the same, just with AOE-focused skills.

    There's nothing compelling about that.  It's literally 3 or 4 buttons to press, per fight, with one button being used 90% of the time.

    Don't know...if you had all DPS gear it would have had to have been your build.  You can say it isnt all you want, but Imma tank build and once I got my build right and my gear right, no mob lasted that long in a fight with me...maybe 2 or 3...not 1.  

    I used all 7 skills pretty much round the clock...had 1 that was a knockdown for when mobs would do their "big" move, but the other 6 were very useful.  

    I still like the combat alot and have been playing since beta, but there is still a WHOLE lot more to the game than combat, not to detract from your argument, but mine encompasses the entire game.  the entire game appeals to those who want to play something that teases their intellect a bit.  If that's now how you have fun, then it's all good....I just think it's a real shame that MMORPG's forgot all about the "RPG" element.

    image
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Randayn

    I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

    Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

    Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

    again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

    Neither of those games has much of a story.  Eve has the epic story arcs, I suppose, but they were pretty uninteresting and ammounted to little more than a basic questline with a few player choices, from my experience.

    Anarchy Online didnt have a story?  What are you nuts?  The story was EVERYWHERE and ANYWHERE.  the dungeons had a story all of their own...

    Just because Morgan Freeman isn't providing commentary doesn't mean there isn't a story...you had to dig.

    image
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,734Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

     Yeah I quit in beta even though it was free....jsut was a boring single player feel game...The 3 factions felt identical and the combat and mob animations were just awful.....i know Im in the minority but I thought Funcom's oldest game (AO in 2001) was still their best......I wouldn't play TSW or AoC for free even.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Randayn

    The combat in TSW is a very "Thinking" style combat.  You must align every skill with each other....that's why they call it "synergy" cuz that's what it does.  

    The difference between a poorly put together build and a well built build is night and day.  And no, Rift does not offer the same depth.  It just offers several builds that will mirror each other from player to player.  

    It's really funny that combat always comes up as a deterent...I'd consider it a one of it's strength's.  Im so sick of the "new" action type combat...if I wanted action combat Id play an action console game or mortal combat....Im playing an RPG damnit...I want to think about my build before I go fight...not rely on twitch movement to make the difference.

    As for having to move out of the way with dodge...it's really not that difficult and your build plays a much bigger part than this mechanic in most cases.

    I love the combat in the game.  It feels action-oriented to me and has a great pace to it, again for me.  I also like Tera and GW2 combat and TSW doesn't feel much different in how satisfying I find it.

    I like the active-passive synergies and the active dodging and positioning.  I'm mid level and using survival builds since I pretty much solo.

    All that is secondary to the community though, which I find to be most enjoyable.  It's the immersion and community that make this game truly great to me.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    All that is secondary to the community though, which I find to be most enjoyable.  It's the immersion and community that make this game truly great to me.

    Agree 100%!

    image
  • orbitxoorbitxo fort lauderdale, FLPosts: 1,405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

    Exactly - me too.

    I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

    However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

    I was so skeptical of this game not sure why maybe becaouse they werent dwrfs or goblins or knights...finally during my downtime with GW2 i played Tera..and TSW, I can say iam hooked with TSW!- it complements GW2 i can truly say when i play either of them iam not comparing them at all-how they could do this or they could do that..and ive hated tank,heal,dps mmos which ive droped after wow. but man TSW has made me really enjoy their synergy!-i cant explain it-its a diff style mmo, and well worth my time investment!

     

    Iam not here to tell you guys PLAY IT PLAIT PLAY IT- iam just voicing my opinion on a really cool game i found out on my own and very dumbfounded the little coverage mmorpg has given it-  a place i cme to read about mmo news. I know they gave it great reviews 8.5 or so - but exposure could of been better.

    im just pretty excited i found an mmo that gets me excited to play again!

     
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JudgeUK
    Originally posted by Ortwig
    Originally posted by calranthe

    I really do not understand people saying it takes a long time to kill enemies in this game, yes compared to diablo 3 or games like that this game does not have "trash" mobs you should be able to one hit.

    This game is made for optimizing your build and skill set, fighting intelligently, adaptation to creatures and enemies, I have played since launch but even now there are nuances to the combat system I am still learning.

    I have 2 solo builds depending on who and what I am fighting and a couple of skills I switch out for different affects I can take 2-3 normal mobs easily and singe mobs go down quite fast, may other builds are for playing with friends.

    I am not a hardcore player I don't even do raids or dungeons pretty casual as it is but I now understand the combat system and anything that does kick my ass I see it as another type of puzzle to solve, open up my wheel and think how can I adapt to this situation.

    ^ Yes.  It really does come down to playstyle I think.  TSW demands you pay attention, and the game asks you to use your head, both for the in-game investigations and to understand how to best optimize yourself for combat.  Players are not simply given a single set of skills that always work; instead, you are given a set of abilities that CAN work well, IF you understand how they work together.  The player needs to take the time to understand how to create an optimized deck -- once you've done that, the monsters go down quickly.  I'm much more satisfied when I finally figure out the build to take down a that's been kicking my ass for the past week.  The combat system is there, but it's on the player's shoulders to make their character better.  

    I think a lot of players have a hard time with this.  They simply are not used to being given the freedom to create a sucky (or good) combat build.

    I wouldn't go that far. Rift has a similar, if not wider, range of build options and carries this out far clearer than TSW.

    However, the whole idea of giving players the freedom is a minomer. You know what happens, players look up build guides in the game's forums or associated sites and run with these. People do the number crunching with build options and pretty soon there is the updated cookie cutter build for all the classes.

    Sure players can have a go themselves, there will always be those people, from wow to rift, swtor, tera, or  whatever. But the players who want the best for their class/role will generally  ignore the whole being given the freedom bit (which isn't new or special) and refer to the various game guides.

    But TSW does a better job with the options. Sure, there are the outfit decks (which are only fair as far as decks go) as well as the many sites that have pre-made decks that many players will take and copy.  The thing is, the people who experiment and learn how active/passive combos really work will always have an advantage over a cookie-cutter deck.  They'll understand when a mob is suddenly immune to Impairs that you need to switch decks and find abilities that work; it may be a bit of trial and error, but that combat system understanding makes a huge difference.

    A few months ago in PvP, everyone was complaining about the "glance tank" build many players were copying and using.  Of course, not long after, a counter was found for the build, and suddenly the glance tanks were getting their asses handed to them again.  There's always a new build, and "flavor of the month" builds come and go.

    Instead of straight-up power, TSW is about adpatability and flexibility within a large but finite pool of abilities.  Someone much better than me at math recently figured out that the pool of 525 abilities and all the possible weapon combinations worked out to 77,258,540,228,633,700,000,000 possible builds:

    http://karl3d.wordpress.com/2012/08/03/tsw-builds-final/

    Granted, not all those builds are viable, but there certainly is room to find more variations than the cookie-cutters some folks have discovered and posted.  

    The nice thing about all this?  TSW is closer than any game I have encountered to truly delivering on horizontal progression.

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