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Help me understand this...

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  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by muffins89

    yes

    yes

    yes

    Why?

    Cause it's a spinoff.

  • MaelwyddMaelwydd CrawleyPosts: 1,123Member
    Originally posted by Latronus

    You are correct.  Knowing how to program is not really needed to design a game; however, I bet 99% of those that complain about old game designs have absolutely no idea what is required in designing a game or anything else for that matter.  I'd love to see many of these nay Sayers put into a position of authority and have to make these same decisions.  It's easy to say that they would make differing decisions, but when your faced with cost, schedule, & performance parameters, the choices aren't as clear cut as the average gamer thinks.  

    I don't dissagree with your point but it still stands that you don't have to know how to program to be a game designer. It certainly helps and it is a common career path it is only 1 of many skills a game designer needs.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by muffins89

    yes

    yes

    yes

    Why?

    because the games lead designers are stuck in the past and cannot come up with any new ideas. They have on rose colored glasses and actually believe the game they are basing it off of was great...so great it seems they think it will apply successfully to anything even though history proves them wrong.

    ::sigh::  Tamriel is huge, and there are lots of places a person can travel and explore, but we're going to be forbidden to explore the land because the developers want to recreate DAoC?   This maybe the one reason I will not even look at this game now.   Stupid.

    This is the kind of people this game is trying to avoid. If you don't want 3 seperate unique PvE experiences and RvR combat, look to Wildstar or some of the other games coming out, you will be much happier :)

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by SoMuchMass

    About the game design comment.  Calling the DAoC model "piss poor" design is baseless.  There is nothing that backs up that comment.

    lol where did I say that?

    You quoted me for calling out a  person that  said DAoC model was "piss poor" design.  Please read it again.

    5 pages and counting still can't see it. What post number? I will appologise if you are correct.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5577799#5577799

     

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common

    Isn't it actually 50% of the game world that you see, not just 1/3? Three locked zones, one shared zone. Each alliance has access to one locked and the shared equaling two out of four zones. 2/4 = 1/2.

    I'd also mention that in the SP ES games you're locked in one nation. This game goes forward and gives you access to four nations total... 300% more than the SP games. Are we saying that more freedom in the MMO version equals less freedom?

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by rygard49

    Isn't it actually 50% of the game world that you see, not just 1/3? Three locked zones, one shared zone. Each alliance has access to one locked and the shared equaling two out of four zones. 2/4 = 1/2.

    I'd also mention that in the SP ES games you're locked in one nation. This game goes forward and gives you access to four nations total... 300% more than the SP games. Are we saying that more freedom in the MMO version equals less freedom?

    That seems to be the mob mentality lately, yes.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    What depresses me most about this "DAoC reincarnated as TESO" situation is that it's unlikely we'll see a non-PvP-centric TES MMO in the next 5 to 8 years.

    It seems to be accepted practice in the industry that you NEVER have 2 MMO's running concurrently based on the same IP. So TES fans are pretty much stuck with this "interpretation" of the TES SPG gameplay.

     

    Of course, it seems that creating clones of a game is only ever "bad" if you didn't like the game that has been cloned. 

     

    Why is it that TWO DAoC clones (CU and TESO) are currently in the pipeline ? If DAoC was so great, why isn't someone just making "DAoC 2" or "DAoC: ReLoaded" or whatever ?

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    What depresses me most about this "DAoC reincarnated as TESO" situation is that it's unlikely we'll see a non-PvP-centric TES MMO in the next 5 to 8 years.

    It seems to be accepted practice in the industry that you NEVER have 2 MMO's running concurrently based on the same IP. So TES fans are pretty much stuck with this "interpretation" of the TES SPG gameplay.

     

    Of course, it seems that creating clones of a game is only ever "bad" if you didn't like the game that has been cloned. 

     

    Why is it that TWO DAoC clones (CU and TESO) are currently in the pipeline ? If DAoC was so great, why isn't someone just making "DAoC 2" or "DAoC: ReLoaded" or whatever ?

    Because EA has what is left of Mythic in a stranglehold choking the last breath out of their lungs, and god help us all if EA decides to make DAoC 2.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Why is it that TWO DAoC clones (CU and TESO) are currently in the pipeline ? If DAoC was so great, why isn't someone just making "DAoC 2" or "DAoC: ReLoaded" or whatever ?

    Licensing.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    What depresses me most about this "DAoC reincarnated as TESO" situation is that it's unlikely we'll see a non-PvP-centric TES MMO in the next 5 to 8 years.

    It seems to be accepted practice in the industry that you NEVER have 2 MMO's running concurrently based on the same IP. So TES fans are pretty much stuck with this "interpretation" of the TES SPG gameplay.

     

    Of course, it seems that creating clones of a game is only ever "bad" if you didn't like the game that has been cloned. 

     

    Why is it that TWO DAoC clones (CU and TESO) are currently in the pipeline ? If DAoC was so great, why isn't someone just making "DAoC 2" or "DAoC: ReLoaded" or whatever ?

    But yet I guarentee you we will see a Elder Scrolls Single Player RPG within 2. 

     

     

    To be as blunt as possible, to design an Elder Scrolls MMO in any incarnation other then the current one has proven to be disasterous.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Mael you came do any story at any time in skyrim.

    Many of the quests have level and / or the the completion of other quests as requirements.

    For instance you can't do the dawnguard chain until you reach level 10

    You can't do half the deadric quests until you reach certain levels (some are level 30)

    You can't do dragonborn main story line until you've got as far as high hrothgar on the main story line.

    Also I'm really confused as to why you guys think daoc isn't "open world" the game has NO INSTANCES.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Gecko
    Because EA are a bunch of idiots.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Aeon
    Lol yeah I wouldn't touch a ea daoc2 with a ten foot barge pole.

    Likely be some crappy linear instanced to hell and back sub par wow clone.
  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    Make note of this thread, tag it, because someday it'll be used as a means to say, "we told you so.", just as we have done so many times in the past regarding poorly designed and implemented games.   I am saying it here and now that this land locked game design they are using in TESO will be one of the main things that end up hurting this game.   It will be another Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWTOR...people do not play poorly designed games.   This game is all ready showing signs of bad game design.   If they insist on locking lands to a specific faction it will not be a very popular game.

    image
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Teala
    Make note of this thread, tag it, because someday it'll be used as a means to say, "we told you so.", just as we have done so many times in the past regarding poorly designed and implemented games.   I am saying it here and now that this land locked game design they are using in TESO will be one of the main things that end up hurting this game.   It will be another Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWTOR...people do not play poorly designed games.   This game is all ready showing signs of bad game design.   If they insist on locking lands to a specific faction it will not be a very popular game.

    LOL, that's the truth.  When the game releases and the RvR is NOTHING like DAoC and the Elder Scroll fanbase is enraged, I'll drop back by with "I told you so".

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Oh don't get me wrong there's plenty could go wrong with the game.

    but the "evil faction lock" isn't it.

    Lack of community with the mega server
    Overuse of phasing and instancing
    Pandering to the "raiders must have best" crowd
    Overuse of "you are THE hero" storyline
    Etc..
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Make note of this thread, tag it, because someday it'll be used as a means to say, "we told you so.", just as we have done so many times in the past regarding poorly designed and implemented games.   I am saying it here and now that this land locked game design they are using in TESO will be one of the main things that end up hurting this game.   It will be another Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWTOR...people do not play poorly designed games.   This game is all ready showing signs of bad game design.   If they insist on locking lands to a specific faction it will not be a very popular game.

    Done and done, will bookmark it as a constant reminder than a few disgruntled people don't make up a majority, thank goodness. Also, Rift is great give it a try, but you probably won't because you make your mind up before you even try. Or just take someone elses opinion and run with it.

    I'm not saying this game is the second coming by any means, but it's going to be successfull with or without players who like to hold hands and sing kumbaya.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by Latronus

    You are correct.  Knowing how to program is not really needed to design a game; however, I bet 99% of those that complain about old game designs have absolutely no idea what is required in designing a game or anything else for that matter.  I'd love to see many of these nay Sayers put into a position of authority and have to make these same decisions.  It's easy to say that they would make differing decisions, but when your faced with cost, schedule, & performance parameters, the choices aren't as clear cut as the average gamer thinks.  

    I don't dissagree with your point but it still stands that you don't have to know how to program to be a game designer. It certainly helps and it is a common career path it is only 1 of many skills a game designer needs.

    Where I work, it is a resume' requirement to even be a potential hire as a designer you must know how to Script.  There is a big difference between scripting and programming.  However designers are not required to program any code, that is the coder's job.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Designers that can't code at all are a pain in the arse.

    Once had this guy that drew out all the UI in micro managed detail. Then just drew a cloud on his drawing with DO CALCULATIONS on it. if they can't code they at least need to know maths otherwise they want the impossible because they can't understand exponential problems, had one guy like this too with a route planner
    - "why are you doing all this genetic algorithm stuff just pick the fastest route"
    - "err because users will be sat there for a week waiting for the calculation"
    - "well just code it better then"
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Aeon

    The most amusing thing is rift DOES let you go anywhere and group with who you like. Shite pvp though.
  • VindicarVindicar ParisPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Make note of this thread, tag it, because someday it'll be used as a means to say, "we told you so.", just as we have done so many times in the past regarding poorly designed and implemented games.   I am saying it here and now that this land locked game design they are using in TESO will be one of the main things that end up hurting this game.   It will be another Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWTOR...people do not play poorly designed games.   This game is all ready showing signs of bad game design.   If they insist on locking lands to a specific faction it will not be a very popular game.

    I agree locked land is one serious BS but I can't agree with someone considering that Aion and SWTOR are on the same level... I don't see much restrictions in Aion when SWTOR is almost a single player game...

    It's off topic and I'm not looking for a debate about it, but it clearly doesn't help making you sound like a fair reference.

    Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.

    I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2)
    Recently known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU).
    Actually Known as "Wundicar" in Age of Wushu (US)

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maelwydd
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    No problem at all with them taking a single player game, extrapilating that out into an MMO form while staying true to the single player game and adding in possibly the best MMO feature thats been done exactly ONE other time with great success. You in turn would rather they take the game and stay true to the TES game but extrapalting that out into MMO form and making it jsut like every other MMO released in the last 8 years.  That is what I call an idiotic and surefire fail.

    TES games are open world and non linear. I don't care what PvP systems they use, remove those 2 elements and it isn't a TES game. TES games are sandbox in nature and while some might argue that they should have FFA PVP or full loot they are options. By using DAOC as a framework for the PvP they have removed the fundamentals of what makes a TES game a TES game.

    You could go either way with PvP but the open world, non linear design of TES isn't open to negotiation. THAT is where they have failed.

     

    You make absolutely no sense.  True TES are best known for their open world, non-linear gameplay and that is exactly what we get with ESO.  The 3 PvE worlds are open world non linear JUST LIKE THE SINGLE PLAYER GAMES.

     

    My argument is you need PvP and to put in any other type of PvP other then RvR it would make the game fail.  Look at all the failures of MMO games that feature instanced Battleground style PvP, or FFA PvP.  None have worked except for WoW and thats because the PvE is what keeps it playerbase around.  But you still need other systems in place to flesh out the game and PvP is a good choice as long as if its done right and seeing as DAoC is the only successdful PvP game (in the west) then it stands to reason to use its system.  Hence the combining of the best of both worlds.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Teala
    Make note of this thread, tag it, because someday it'll be used as a means to say, "we told you so.", just as we have done so many times in the past regarding poorly designed and implemented games.   I am saying it here and now that this land locked game design they are using in TESO will be one of the main things that end up hurting this game.   It will be another Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWTOR...people do not play poorly designed games.   This game is all ready showing signs of bad game design.   If they insist on locking lands to a specific faction it will not be a very popular game.

    For you maybe but for potentially millions of others I would wage not and hsitory is on my side!  DAoC and GW2 are both both massive successes and they are the only 3 faction RvR games to ever have been made.  Take away the DAoC style RvR and you turn the game itno another WoW clone.

     

    You guys who want a WoW'ified TES game are an utter embaressment to MMO's and to think you want otherwise is not being true to yourselves.  To remove RvR and open up all the lands for exploration will cause the game to be either a EQ clone with no PvP, or you can offer Open PvP game and turn it into a Darkfall model.  While I wouldnt mind a PvE only TES game world I will settle for soemthing that works too because past games who used the model also did well.  Now to add in PvP which is a must in a MMO you can only copy several styles, and none of them is as popular or as widely successful as the 3 faction RvR system.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon

    I just don't think pvprs will stay for too long only be able to fight in one area. PvP zones take away the element of surprise, the chance of being off guard. In a pvp zone, you know the next fight is right around the corner.

     

    who knows though it could be super huge with towns and stuff just like the pve areas with incredible combat, idk though.

  • trash656trash656 Here, SKPosts: 357Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by muffins89

     

     

     

    ::sigh::  Tamriel is huge, and there are lots of places a person can travel and explore, but we're going to be forbidden to explore the land becuase the developers want to recreate DAoC?   This maybe the one reason I will not even look at this game now.   Stupid.

    you'll just need to make more than one character.  think of it as 3 ES games in one.

    No.  I just won't play their game.

    not every game is for everyone. 

    You're right, but of all the games to put this in, this is not the one.   Also, even in WOW, we could travel the world...the whole world.   Even on PvP servers, you couldn't attack players of the other faction outright in their own lands and hurt them.   They had to attack you first before you could do damage back.   Are you telling me that a game from 2003 has better game mechanics than a game being designed for 2013?

    Teala your smarter than a lot of the guys on this site. Couldnt have said it better myself. We need more woman gamers like you around.

     

    *hugs from Canada

    -Trash

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