I spotted one FULL server on Sunday around the time when it had 5 FULL servers last month, so 1.7 did not attract as many as the last update prior to Jan 13th which granted F2P players more than 2 chars
even if it was a good game,,the fans would quickly run it into the ground
It simply needs a better engine with up to date graphics, pazzak, swoop racing and JTL like space combat, all planets 1-50, with day/night change, no exhaustion zones and not looking like made out of plastic, NPCs with better AI populating planets instead of standing around like puppets, speeders which are faster than wheelchairs, animal mounts, guild cities, housing, et cetera et cetera.
You know it would be more efficient to start developing SWG 2 instead, because fixing SWTOR design errors and shortcomings is probably like starting from scratch.
even if it was a good game,,the fans would quickly run it into the ground
It simply needs a better engine with up to date graphics, pazzak, swoop racing and JTL like space combat, all planets 1-50, with day/night change, no exhaustion zones and not looking like made out of plastic, NPCs with better AI populating planets instead of standing around like puppets, speeders which are faster than wheelchairs, animal mounts, guild cities, housing, et cetera et cetera.
You know it would be more efficient to start developing SWG 2 instead, because fixing SWTOR design errors and shortcomings is probably like starting from scratch.
they tried swg once, and it failed
today it would fail even harder, with so many other mmos on the market
player bounties,,carte blanche for griefers
stuff like that only works in smaller games,,it will scare away the big casual crowd
and without those,,you will have a game like swtor, swg or tsw
theyre barely surviving, and they sure arent expanding
even if it was a good game,,the fans would quickly run it into the ground
It simply needs a better engine with up to date graphics, pazzak, swoop racing and JTL like space combat, all planets 1-50, with day/night change, no exhaustion zones and not looking like made out of plastic, NPCs with better AI populating planets instead of standing around like puppets, speeders which are faster than wheelchairs, animal mounts, guild cities, housing, et cetera et cetera.
You know it would be more efficient to start developing SWG 2 instead, because fixing SWTOR design errors and shortcomings is probably like starting from scratch.
they tried swg once, and it failed
today it would fail even harder, with so many other mmos on the market Which are all the same boring cookie cutter games.
player bounties,,carte blanche for griefers FALSE. You didn't get a bounty just like that.
stuff like that only works in smaller games,,it will scare away the big casual crowd I've never played a game that was as casual as SWG.
and without those,,you will have a game like swtor, swg or tsw
theyre barely surviving, and they sure arent expanding
Seems like you never played SWG, judging by your claims.
even if it was a good game,,the fans would quickly run it into the ground
It simply needs a better engine with up to date graphics, pazzak, swoop racing and JTL like space combat, all planets 1-50, with day/night change, no exhaustion zones and not looking like made out of plastic, NPCs with better AI populating planets instead of standing around like puppets, speeders which are faster than wheelchairs, animal mounts, guild cities, housing, et cetera et cetera.
You know it would be more efficient to start developing SWG 2 instead, because fixing SWTOR design errors and shortcomings is probably like starting from scratch.
they tried swg once, and it failed
today it would fail even harder, with so many other mmos on the market
player bounties,,carte blanche for griefers
stuff like that only works in smaller games,,it will scare away the big casual crowd
and without those,,you will have a game like swtor, swg or tsw
theyre barely surviving, and they sure arent expanding
Only your post is "fail". Do you know what´s not a fail? SWG, running 10 years and a fan community which keeps it alive, even after being shut down. SWGEMU will probably still run when SWTOR has long been shut down and forgotten. Niche games are the ones staying alive, hyped run off the mill trash gets eaten by the locusts and dumped into the sewer in year 2.
okay perhaps fail is too strong,,but it surely didnt live up to the size of the IP
and the cookie cutter games are like that, because theyre the only ones generating enough cash, to
make big budget games
and , as we can see in any mmo,,give griefers the smallest opportunity to ruin a game, and they will do it
the HK 51 mission is a good example
BW actually serving the PVErs , without skill and gear, to the PVP crowd is a bad idea
with todays toxic community, im afraid, that the only solution is phasing, like in GW2
the good communities,,like in wow BC,,they dont exist anymore,,so the devs have to be both parents and police
swtor didnt have any mmo experience , and it shows
swg prolly had some good things, that is worth keeping,,so does swtor
but the overall experience in swtor was simply not good enough for todays market
i guess swg had the same problem
The population for SWG at the time in 2003/2004 was quite high, as there was no WOW like figures when it launched.
SWGs problem was the success of WOW and then the 2 major changes that followed in 2005. If SWG was bug free, ran really smoothly, and LA respected their fans, then SWG would have done a lot better.
The amount of game mechanics and faetures in SWG were OTT and spoiled you for every other MMO you played aftewards, and there was way plenty enough in the game to keep you hooked for a lifetime, but the bugs and whatnot put people off, and then the 2 major changes.
SWG could have been a niche game like EVE, but LA did not want that, and wanted a massively popular game like WOW
SWTORs problem is that it just cost too much to make and then run, and the true vision of what they were trying to achieve never happened and most of it got scrapped, and is now just slowly bringing out content already written, as they do not have enough money to pay devs to do more new content. If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
Um...no thank you. We have enough games that are trying to be like WOW. If you want the perfect WOW clone, go try Rift. TOR was an attempt to move beyond the boring text based leveling that had been plaqueing MMOs and making it more interesting. They might have went a little too far with it, but it's still way better than the insufferably boring text quests that most MMOs before it were doing. From the look of things, voice over and cutscenes are the future. Even your beloved STO went back and half-hazardly added some cutscenes in to make their missions more interesting.
If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
Um...no thank you. We have enough games that are trying to be like WOW. If you want the perfect WOW clone, go try Rift. TOR was an attempt to move beyond the boring text based leveling that had been plaqueing MMOs and making it more interesting. They might have went a little too far with it, but it's still way better than the insufferably boring text quests that most MMOs before it were doing. From the look of things, voice over and cutscenes are the future. Even your beloved STO went back and half-hazardly added some cutscenes in to make their missions more interesting.
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
Persoanlly though, I do not think cut scenes have a place in MMOs, where you play with other people. Single player games are where cut scenes should stay. If you like cut scenes then you should like single player games more than MMOs. The game world, you and other players in a MMO should be the cut scene. Voice over is easy just speak over the text, and the text acts like subtitles - quite a few MMOs have this. Even SWTOR is all text too if you turn on subtitles, but I do find that they speak too quick sometimes and it is all gone, with text only games the text is all there for however long you want it. Play by yourself and can take as long as you want to read it, play with others then just click through it all in secs and move on or enjoy it with others. It makes playing the same quests over and over again where you know the story go through a lot quicker, and do not have to wait for the cutscene to load, and then spacebar. With advancing tech I am sure they could be able to get NPCs in MMOs to have better interaction with you, better facial expressions, and body movements, so it all happens in the game world instead of a cutscene. When speaking to NPCs in SWG your char and the NPC makes certain body movements, but is all a bit frantic, but it was a start. This parapgraph is my perference of cut scenes, but my previous comment was made with thoughts of keeping game updated and fresh. Although knowing EA they would just let it rot if it was underperforming anwyay, if Warhammer is anything to go by.
the problem with big IPs are , that they attract a lot of fans, who are not mmo players
so , for every pro, you will have 3 noobs,,swtor is a good example
the successful games cater mostly to the noobs,,,wow, COX,GW2
the hardcore ones can only hope to become a niche game
imagine , if EVE had chosen to build their universe like wow,,,with dedicated PVE servers
they could prolly have challenged even wow
In theory sucessful games cater to both new and experienced players - but I think that may better apply to clones. True success innovates and the games you list are examples.
WoW - caters for all types; when it launched it catered for hardcore raiders et. al. but - perhaps the key innovation - it introduced game mechanics that made it easier for new folk to start - and haven't made it big it has had the money to do more. It also launched with high production / quality values.
GWX is/was sucessful because NCSoft adopted a different business model - B2P - and linked that into the same high quality standards that WoW introduced. Arguably even higher because with no sub you can't afford to be patching your game every week.
COX was a niche game from day 1 but it also innovated. Superb character customization, big characters and you couldn't run through people. Big deals at the time. It also introduced updates - two monthly was the plan and they pretty much delivered. And maybe high quality should be included as well.
Eve's big difference of course being a single server; a single world and the economy that goes with it.
And there have been other games that have innovated - UO, AC, EQ1, DAoC (pretty easy for early games to be innovative of course!).
Clones - almost by definition - can't afford to fail in any department. A big IP will help get people to buy the game but it won't get people to stay subbed - a point that people who go on about WoW being a success because of all the Warcraft players. An IP helps get sales but - as SWTOR demonstrated - it won't make them subscribers.
The population for SWG at the time in 2003/2004 was quite high, as there was no WOW like figures when it launched.
SWGs problem was the success of WOW and then the 2 major changes that followed in 2005. If SWG was bug free, ran really smoothly, and LA respected their fans, then SWG would have done a lot better.
The amount of game mechanics and faetures in SWG were OTT and spoiled you for every other MMO you played aftewards, and there was way plenty enough in the game to keep you hooked for a lifetime, but the bugs and whatnot put people off, and then the 2 major changes.
SWG could have been a niche game like EVE, but LA did not want that, and wanted a massively popular game like WOW
SWTORs problem is that it just cost too much to make and then run, and the true vision of what they were trying to achieve never happened and most of it got scrapped, and is now just slowly bringing out content already written, as they do not have enough money to pay devs to do more new content. If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
I think SWG had 2 other problems: bugs and greedy devs. A fine game besides that but as soon as the devs (and LA) saw Wows numbers they thought they could get the same with some changes to make it closer to Wow.
But it was really the bugs and bad code that was the beginning of the problem.
TORs problem is that Bioware thought that stuff that works fine in a singleplayer game would work as well in a MMO instead of focusing on the social things.
It is too bad that noone took all the good parts from SWG and made a new game based on that with a good engine, little bugs and new mechanics for the things that worked less good, some of the thing SWG did was the best in any MMO.
And it is too bad that Bioware made the decision that focus on singleplayer stuff, if they made it optional and added more multiplayer focus like GW2 I think the game would have done a lot better.
SW is a great IP and deserves more, both these games have (or in SWGs case had) their good sides but also flaws that stopped them from truly making it to the top.
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
I prefer TOR over STO because
1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games.
2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG.
3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO. I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.
That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players who paid nothing being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out.
I think SWG had 2 other problems: bugs and greedy devs. A fine game besides that but as soon as the devs (and LA) saw Wows numbers they thought they could get the same with some changes to make it closer to Wow.
But it was really the bugs and bad code that was the beginning of the problem.
It is too bad that noone took all the good parts from SWG and made a new game based on that with a good engine, little bugs and new mechanics for the things that worked less good, some of the thing SWG did was the best in any MMO.
Very true and it really baffles me why no one has tried to improve on the solid foundation that PRE-NGE SWG had. The Repopulation seems to be trying to go in that direction, but with indie companies there's always a chance of the game never being completed.
The population for SWG at the time in 2003/2004 was quite high, as there was no WOW like figures when it launched.
SWGs problem was the success of WOW and then the 2 major changes that followed in 2005. If SWG was bug free, ran really smoothly, and LA respected their fans, then SWG would have done a lot better.
The amount of game mechanics and faetures in SWG were OTT and spoiled you for every other MMO you played aftewards, and there was way plenty enough in the game to keep you hooked for a lifetime, but the bugs and whatnot put people off, and then the 2 major changes.
SWG could have been a niche game like EVE, but LA did not want that, and wanted a massively popular game like WOW
SWTORs problem is that it just cost too much to make and then run, and the true vision of what they were trying to achieve never happened and most of it got scrapped, and is now just slowly bringing out content already written, as they do not have enough money to pay devs to do more new content. If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
I think SWG had 2 other problems: bugs and greedy devs. A fine game besides that but as soon as the devs (and LA) saw Wows numbers they thought they could get the same with some changes to make it closer to Wow.
But it was really the bugs and bad code that was the beginning of the problem.
That is pretty much what I said in the 2nd paragraph, so was not really "2 other problems"
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
I prefer TOR over STO because
1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games.
2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG.
3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO. I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.
That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out.
True on all accounts, and 3 months in SWTOR > 3 months in STO but SWTOR is dead / stuck in maintenance mode yet STO keeps on ticking with update after update after update, with plenty of crap gameplay to keep you amused. SWTOR just simply has nothing to keep you amused, and even yourself said you can only do the same content so many times before it goes stale.. When Makeb was announced, Season 6 went in, and since then had Season 7 announced AND in which brought a new planet and quests like Makeb for FREE, and now shortly will have Season 8, due around the same time as Makeb, with Season 9 planned for later in the year.
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
I prefer TOR over STO because
1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games.
2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG.
3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO. I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.
That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out.
True on all accounts, and 3 months in SWTOR > 3 months in STO but SWTOR is dead / stuck in maintenance mode yet STO keeps on ticking with update after update after update, with plenty of crap gameplay to keep you amused. SWTOR just simply has nothing to keep you amused, and even yourself said you can only do the same content so many times before it goes stale.. When Makeb was announced, Season 6 went in, and since then had Season 7 announced AND in which brought a new planet and quests like Makeb for FREE, and now shortly will have Season 8, due around the same time as Makeb, with Season 9 planned for later in the year.
TOR launched with more content than STO has ever had. In STO, your running the same exact path as you do in every one of the alts unless you go Klingon. And in Klingon, you have VERY little content other than grinding PVP or zones. In TOR, you have 8 classes with a different story arc in each one. You can also skip the side quests and level by PVP or flashpoints if you wish.
TOR has added plenty of new content since the game came out. They just had the 1.7 update which completely changed Ilum and added a reputation system, the 2.0 which is on test center raises the level cap and revamps the skill system and Makeb is the next expansion coming out in the spring of all new content. I'd rather have slightly fewer updates of good ,smooth running content rather than a rash of updates that is a jerky filled mess. Every one has their pet peeves and a game that runs without frustrations like constant lag,constant rubberbanding, and constant jerkiness is my biggest one.
Edit: And if you want to rag on TOR's population levels, you might want to check the few players that are still playing STO on their ONE server. Even with all the free stuff STO is giving out players aren't flocking to it. The STO sub forum on this site gets very little activity. Nobody really cares about it anymore.
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
I prefer TOR over STO because
1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games.
2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG.
3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO. I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.
That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out.
True on all accounts, and 3 months in SWTOR > 3 months in STO but SWTOR is dead / stuck in maintenance mode yet STO keeps on ticking with update after update after update, with plenty of crap gameplay to keep you amused. SWTOR just simply has nothing to keep you amused, and even yourself said you can only do the same content so many times before it goes stale.. When Makeb was announced, Season 6 went in, and since then had Season 7 announced AND in which brought a new planet and quests like Makeb for FREE, and now shortly will have Season 8, due around the same time as Makeb, with Season 9 planned for later in the year.
TOR has added plenty of new content since the game came out. They just had the 1.7 update which completely changed Ilum and added a reputation system, the 2.0 which is on test center raises the level cap and revamps the skill system and Makeb is the next expansion coming out in the spring of all new content. I'd rather have slightly fewer updates of good ,smooth running content rather than a rash of updates that is a jerky filled mess. Every one has their pet peeves and a game that runs without frustration is my biggest one.
What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.
Perfect World are totally commited to making the best out of STO, while EA/BW have just given up on SWTOR. They had enough devs on the game, to make mince meat of STO, but they have clearly failed.
I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR
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Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
It simply needs a better engine with up to date graphics, pazzak, swoop racing and JTL like space combat, all planets 1-50, with day/night change, no exhaustion zones and not looking like made out of plastic, NPCs with better AI populating planets instead of standing around like puppets, speeders which are faster than wheelchairs, animal mounts, guild cities, housing, et cetera et cetera.
You know it would be more efficient to start developing SWG 2 instead, because fixing SWTOR design errors and shortcomings is probably like starting from scratch.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
That's why I think it is best for MMO to not try to be the killer of WoW (or anything). Just find it's own space and do well in it.
Look at World of Tanks for example - they are doing reasonably well where they are.
The higher they push the repair costs, the more players will slip through their fingers. Still Bleeding at their own hand it looks like.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=597827
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
they tried swg once, and it failed
today it would fail even harder, with so many other mmos on the market
player bounties,,carte blanche for griefers
stuff like that only works in smaller games,,it will scare away the big casual crowd
and without those,,you will have a game like swtor, swg or tsw
theyre barely surviving, and they sure arent expanding
yea i wonder whats happening
surely the devs must see , that theyre bleeding over this,,and only one yellow post in 4 days?
it looks like theyre intentionally trying to crash now
most mmos would have done a rollback in the first hours
Seems like you never played SWG, judging by your claims.
Only your post is "fail". Do you know what´s not a fail? SWG, running 10 years and a fan community which keeps it alive, even after being shut down. SWGEMU will probably still run when SWTOR has long been shut down and forgotten. Niche games are the ones staying alive, hyped run off the mill trash gets eaten by the locusts and dumped into the sewer in year 2.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
okay perhaps fail is too strong,,but it surely didnt live up to the size of the IP
and the cookie cutter games are like that, because theyre the only ones generating enough cash, to
make big budget games
and , as we can see in any mmo,,give griefers the smallest opportunity to ruin a game, and they will do it
the HK 51 mission is a good example
BW actually serving the PVErs , without skill and gear, to the PVP crowd is a bad idea
with todays toxic community, im afraid, that the only solution is phasing, like in GW2
the good communities,,like in wow BC,,they dont exist anymore,,so the devs have to be both parents and police
swtor didnt have any mmo experience , and it shows
swg prolly had some good things, that is worth keeping,,so does swtor
but the overall experience in swtor was simply not good enough for todays market
i guess swg had the same problem
i know a lot of the old games are still alive, thanks to the work and love of dedicated fans
UO, AO, EQ1,EQ2,,,the list goes on and on
i even tried out the emulator for one of my old favorites,,earth&beyond
but after the honeymoon goggles disappeared,,it was horrible
the world of mmos have evolved so much since then
and still,,there are things from that game, i would like to see in other newer games,,like open level cap
i guess that would be the secret of the ultimate mmo
pick the best parts from other mmos, and leave out the bad ones
heres one:
a story driven mmo , centered around a french piano lesson in the 19th century
there will be permadeath,,not only for your character, but also the whole account
there will not be pet battles, only pet cleaning
all PVP will be handled by simple random rolls,,loose a roll, and youre out
now all we need is a big IP,,and were ready to go
I agree. It seems odd that they just don't roll it back immediately. Then again this seems to be their perennial problem, overweening pride.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
The population for SWG at the time in 2003/2004 was quite high, as there was no WOW like figures when it launched.
SWGs problem was the success of WOW and then the 2 major changes that followed in 2005. If SWG was bug free, ran really smoothly, and LA respected their fans, then SWG would have done a lot better.
The amount of game mechanics and faetures in SWG were OTT and spoiled you for every other MMO you played aftewards, and there was way plenty enough in the game to keep you hooked for a lifetime, but the bugs and whatnot put people off, and then the 2 major changes.
SWG could have been a niche game like EVE, but LA did not want that, and wanted a massively popular game like WOW
SWTORs problem is that it just cost too much to make and then run, and the true vision of what they were trying to achieve never happened and most of it got scrapped, and is now just slowly bringing out content already written, as they do not have enough money to pay devs to do more new content. If they managed to have kept the costs low, by even making SWTOR without voice over and be like WOW, then they would be able to afford to keep the game running better, and be able to progress the game in leaps and bounds. It may not have sold 2 million at launch, but could possibly be a lot better off than it is now, which is an average MMO with a future.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Um...no thank you. We have enough games that are trying to be like WOW. If you want the perfect WOW clone, go try Rift. TOR was an attempt to move beyond the boring text based leveling that had been plaqueing MMOs and making it more interesting. They might have went a little too far with it, but it's still way better than the insufferably boring text quests that most MMOs before it were doing. From the look of things, voice over and cutscenes are the future. Even your beloved STO went back and half-hazardly added some cutscenes in to make their missions more interesting.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
the problem with big IPs are , that they attract a lot of fans, who are not mmo players
so , for every pro, you will have 3 noobs,,swtor is a good example
the successful games cater mostly to the noobs,,,wow, COX,GW2
the hardcore ones can only hope to become a niche game
imagine , if EVE had chosen to build their universe like wow,,,with dedicated PVE servers
they could prolly have challenged even wow
rift is awful,,a wow clone, but without wows qualities
swtor also has that problem
lets se when they get on the new fad,,player housing
apparently, rift has made that one of its pillars
I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally. Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.
STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.
Persoanlly though, I do not think cut scenes have a place in MMOs, where you play with other people. Single player games are where cut scenes should stay. If you like cut scenes then you should like single player games more than MMOs. The game world, you and other players in a MMO should be the cut scene. Voice over is easy just speak over the text, and the text acts like subtitles - quite a few MMOs have this. Even SWTOR is all text too if you turn on subtitles, but I do find that they speak too quick sometimes and it is all gone, with text only games the text is all there for however long you want it. Play by yourself and can take as long as you want to read it, play with others then just click through it all in secs and move on or enjoy it with others. It makes playing the same quests over and over again where you know the story go through a lot quicker, and do not have to wait for the cutscene to load, and then spacebar. With advancing tech I am sure they could be able to get NPCs in MMOs to have better interaction with you, better facial expressions, and body movements, so it all happens in the game world instead of a cutscene. When speaking to NPCs in SWG your char and the NPC makes certain body movements, but is all a bit frantic, but it was a start. This parapgraph is my perference of cut scenes, but my previous comment was made with thoughts of keeping game updated and fresh. Although knowing EA they would just let it rot if it was underperforming anwyay, if Warhammer is anything to go by.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
STO still need to tweak their cutscenes though
compared to swtor, their cutscenes looks very rough and unpolished
but its no big deal,,they can take take a long time,because the rest of the game is good
In theory sucessful games cater to both new and experienced players - but I think that may better apply to clones. True success innovates and the games you list are examples.
WoW - caters for all types; when it launched it catered for hardcore raiders et. al. but - perhaps the key innovation - it introduced game mechanics that made it easier for new folk to start - and haven't made it big it has had the money to do more. It also launched with high production / quality values.
GWX is/was sucessful because NCSoft adopted a different business model - B2P - and linked that into the same high quality standards that WoW introduced. Arguably even higher because with no sub you can't afford to be patching your game every week.
COX was a niche game from day 1 but it also innovated. Superb character customization, big characters and you couldn't run through people. Big deals at the time. It also introduced updates - two monthly was the plan and they pretty much delivered. And maybe high quality should be included as well.
Eve's big difference of course being a single server; a single world and the economy that goes with it.
And there have been other games that have innovated - UO, AC, EQ1, DAoC (pretty easy for early games to be innovative of course!).
Clones - almost by definition - can't afford to fail in any department. A big IP will help get people to buy the game but it won't get people to stay subbed - a point that people who go on about WoW being a success because of all the Warcraft players. An IP helps get sales but - as SWTOR demonstrated - it won't make them subscribers.
I think SWG had 2 other problems: bugs and greedy devs. A fine game besides that but as soon as the devs (and LA) saw Wows numbers they thought they could get the same with some changes to make it closer to Wow.
But it was really the bugs and bad code that was the beginning of the problem.
TORs problem is that Bioware thought that stuff that works fine in a singleplayer game would work as well in a MMO instead of focusing on the social things.
It is too bad that noone took all the good parts from SWG and made a new game based on that with a good engine, little bugs and new mechanics for the things that worked less good, some of the thing SWG did was the best in any MMO.
And it is too bad that Bioware made the decision that focus on singleplayer stuff, if they made it optional and added more multiplayer focus like GW2 I think the game would have done a lot better.
SW is a great IP and deserves more, both these games have (or in SWGs case had) their good sides but also flaws that stopped them from truly making it to the top.
I prefer TOR over STO because
1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games.
2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG.
3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO. I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.
That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players who paid nothing being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Very true and it really baffles me why no one has tried to improve on the solid foundation that PRE-NGE SWG had. The Repopulation seems to be trying to go in that direction, but with indie companies there's always a chance of the game never being completed.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
That is pretty much what I said in the 2nd paragraph, so was not really "2 other problems"
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
True on all accounts, and 3 months in SWTOR > 3 months in STO but SWTOR is dead / stuck in maintenance mode yet STO keeps on ticking with update after update after update, with plenty of crap gameplay to keep you amused. SWTOR just simply has nothing to keep you amused, and even yourself said you can only do the same content so many times before it goes stale.. When Makeb was announced, Season 6 went in, and since then had Season 7 announced AND in which brought a new planet and quests like Makeb for FREE, and now shortly will have Season 8, due around the same time as Makeb, with Season 9 planned for later in the year.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
TOR launched with more content than STO has ever had. In STO, your running the same exact path as you do in every one of the alts unless you go Klingon. And in Klingon, you have VERY little content other than grinding PVP or zones. In TOR, you have 8 classes with a different story arc in each one. You can also skip the side quests and level by PVP or flashpoints if you wish.
TOR has added plenty of new content since the game came out. They just had the 1.7 update which completely changed Ilum and added a reputation system, the 2.0 which is on test center raises the level cap and revamps the skill system and Makeb is the next expansion coming out in the spring of all new content. I'd rather have slightly fewer updates of good ,smooth running content rather than a rash of updates that is a jerky filled mess. Every one has their pet peeves and a game that runs without frustrations like constant lag,constant rubberbanding, and constant jerkiness is my biggest one.
Edit: And if you want to rag on TOR's population levels, you might want to check the few players that are still playing STO on their ONE server. Even with all the free stuff STO is giving out players aren't flocking to it. The STO sub forum on this site gets very little activity. Nobody really cares about it anymore.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.
Perfect World are totally commited to making the best out of STO, while EA/BW have just given up on SWTOR. They had enough devs on the game, to make mince meat of STO, but they have clearly failed.
I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012