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In my opinion, this is what keeps MOP from being great..............

13

Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    i agree valor gear is not mandatory but blizzard made a mistake locking it behind dailies
  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Nadia

    this is an editorial about WOW dailies that I agree with

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/11/know-your-lore-dailies-and-story-development/

    Dailies and obligation

    In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.

    And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.

    it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.

    This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.

    At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.

    This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.

    If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).

    Lots of games now punish players like myself with their system. How I play: I want the best gear possible without raiding. I don't care how long it takes as long as the experience is entertaining. I have no desire to raid even when I am beyond raid ready. I have been down that long boring road and I have no desire for it. However, the type of person I am dictates I must get the best gear I possibly can, thus making it a necessity for my enjoyment of the game.

    Lock it behind grind dailies, the worst content to come to MMO's in years, and you have someone who is playing other games now because it is no longer entertaining, I work at work, and at least they pay me.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Nadia

    this is an editorial about WOW dailies that I agree with

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/11/know-your-lore-dailies-and-story-development/

    Dailies and obligation

    In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.

    And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.

    it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.

    This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.

    At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.

    This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.

    If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).

    Lots of games now punish players like myself with their system. How I play: I want the best gear possible without raiding. I don't care how long it takes as long as the experience is entertaining. I have no desire to raid even when I am beyond raid ready. I have been down that long boring road and I have no desire for it. However, the type of person I am dictates I must get the best gear I possibly can, thus making it a necessity for my enjoyment of the game.

    Lock it behind grind dailies, the worst content to come to MMO's in years, and you have someone who is playing other games now because it is no longer entertaining, I work at work, and at least they pay me.

    I fully respect your view, but to play devils advocate, it should take effort to get said "best gear in the game". Not to crap on your view, but you are the exact reason a lot of ppl bash WoW on this site, ppl getting top end gear without putting in the time and effort to get it. You say you are willing to though, so what is your suggestion? What should they add in that would take as long as it would for a 10 man guild to get decked out in the top end gear, but possible by a solo toon?

    How do you think it feels for raiders to beat their heads againsnt the wall progressing through a tier, when people who "want the best gear in the game without raiding" can get it in a fraction of the time? Blizzards answer for that was dailies this tier....bad move, but still..their only other option is to remove the valor gear from anyone who doesnt want to raid, which is what they are doing in 5.2. We are back to square 1...dailies removed..but so is your access to that gear unless you raid...

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    I like almost everything about MoP, except one thing.  It's not alt friendly.  I'm an altoholic and I currently have 7 level 90s, and 6 other characters that are level 85 or higher (told you that I was an altoholic lol).  The only problem I have with MoP is the need to run so many dailies for valor early on.  There's really only two things I would change, both have to do with Valor.

     

    First, along with the double reputation for factions, the commendation should also double the valor you get from dailies.  Right now, you end up gettting exalted in like 2-3 sets of dailies for almost every rep with a commendation bonus.  This leaves an alt with 1000 valor (I run alot of heroics too, and it is actually faster way to get valor), but 1000 valor cannot buy any valor equipment.  Doubling the valor you get from dailies makes it so you get the same valor as the first time you did them, just twice as fast, just like the rep.

     

    Now, you're thinking, "That's not going to change anything, since you can only get 1000 valor in a week".  Which brings me to my second change.  Get rid of valor, conquest, justice, honor caps!  I've always hated this!  If I got an alt that I want to get some valor equipment for, I should be able to get as much valor as I want to get that valor equipment for that alt.  Not have to wait 2 weeks to get one piece.  I know that the whole point of currency capping is to lengthen the duration of a content patch.  As an altoholic, I have no problem with the time it takes between patches.  Once I finish a patch on one character, I got 12 others to go work on lol.

     

    I know most people probably only have 1-3 level 90s, but it would help them out as well.  If you wanted, or had the time, you could sit at your computer doing heroics and get enough valor to buy an entire set in about 4-5 days probably (I can valor cap a character in a single day, which is why I currently have 7 90s lol).  And valor isn't the end of the game anyways.  All valor is for, is to get you ready to go raiding.  Without valor gear equipped, doing raids is extremely hard.

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    I dont like the way rep works . Where i have to get so far with one group to even start the next. There are alot of dailies but its a good thing for the solo player Who doesn't like to raid. if u do heroics and raid u wont need rep to get gear. As for flying ia gree it should be like lk , Give us a way to buy the flying for our alts. 

    I hate that every one of my guys has to get cloud serpent rep to get to ride the mounts. That said the addition of the token to double exp gains once u have hit honored on oen toon makes it easier. 

    Oh i have played swtor and while i haven't played gw 2 . i still love wow Some players like wow because its fun and no matter how many people slam it is still the top mmo out there. 

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Nadia

    this is an editorial about WOW dailies that I agree with

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/11/know-your-lore-dailies-and-story-development/

    Dailies and obligation

    In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.

    And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.

    it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.

    This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.

    At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.

    This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.

    If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).

    Lots of games now punish players like myself with their system. How I play: I want the best gear possible without raiding. I don't care how long it takes as long as the experience is entertaining. I have no desire to raid even when I am beyond raid ready. I have been down that long boring road and I have no desire for it. However, the type of person I am dictates I must get the best gear I possibly can, thus making it a necessity for my enjoyment of the game.

    Lock it behind grind dailies, the worst content to come to MMO's in years, and you have someone who is playing other games now because it is no longer entertaining, I work at work, and at least they pay me.

    I fully respect your view, but to play devils advocate, it should take effort to get said "best gear in the game". Not to crap on your view, but you are the exact reason a lot of ppl bash WoW on this site, ppl getting top end gear without putting in the time and effort to get it. You say you are willing to though, so what is your suggestion? What should they add in that would take as long as it would for a 10 man guild to get decked out in the top end gear, but possible by a solo toon?

    How do you think it feels for raiders to beat their heads againsnt the wall progressing through a tier, when people who "want the best gear in the game without raiding" can get it in a fraction of the time? Blizzards answer for that was dailies this tier....bad move, but still..their only other option is to remove the valor gear from anyone who doesnt want to raid, which is what they are doing in 5.2. We are back to square 1...dailies removed..but so is your access to that gear unless you raid...

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Nadia

    this is an editorial about WOW dailies that I agree with

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/11/11/know-your-lore-dailies-and-story-development/

    Dailies and obligation

    In Wrath, characters were offered items to enhance certain slots of gear. The Sons of Hodir were pretty much considered a requirement to complete because of this. In Cataclysm, the same was offered through Therazane, which again, made the grind almost a requirement for players. In Mists, these enhancements were changed to player-created items, eliminating the "need" for a reputation grind. Yet a handful of new reputations were introduced.

    And instead of eliminating the problem of what is a perceived need for a reputation grind, the problem was then exacerbated by the placement of the only valor gear in game behind reputation requirements.

    it now feels as though four are required for character progression -- and two of those four are locked behind the Golden Lotus.

    This takes daily quests from the territory of something additional to do, to something that players feel that they must do in order to remain competitive in the game itself.

    At the moment, daily quests work on the basis of repetition. Kill this many mogu today. Tomorrow, we'll ask you to kill that exact number of mogu all over again. Unfortunately, while this works for gameplay, it does little for story -- the repetition kills all drive that players have towards completing these daily quests.

    This is 100% true, but one thing level headed people need to keep in mind, they only feel mandatory because of the valor gear. The valor gear they offer is absolutly not required to raid....the only area you would benefit from the valor gear they offer is to raid...its all part of progression. Wanting something "just because", and needing something, are 2 different beasts.

    If you have no intention of raiding, valor gear will not be of much concequence. if raiding is your thing, you can do just fine (although have to work a little harder) with Heroic 5man blues (which i did).

    Lots of games now punish players like myself with their system. How I play: I want the best gear possible without raiding. I don't care how long it takes as long as the experience is entertaining. I have no desire to raid even when I am beyond raid ready. I have been down that long boring road and I have no desire for it. However, the type of person I am dictates I must get the best gear I possibly can, thus making it a necessity for my enjoyment of the game.

    Lock it behind grind dailies, the worst content to come to MMO's in years, and you have someone who is playing other games now because it is no longer entertaining, I work at work, and at least they pay me.

    I fully respect your view, but to play devils advocate, it should take effort to get said "best gear in the game". Not to crap on your view, but you are the exact reason a lot of ppl bash WoW on this site, ppl getting top end gear without putting in the time and effort to get it. You say you are willing to though, so what is your suggestion? What should they add in that would take as long as it would for a 10 man guild to get decked out in the top end gear, but possible by a solo toon?

    How do you think it feels for raiders to beat their heads againsnt the wall progressing through a tier, when people who "want the best gear in the game without raiding" can get it in a fraction of the time? Blizzards answer for that was dailies this tier....bad move, but still..their only other option is to remove the valor gear from anyone who doesnt want to raid, which is what they are doing in 5.2. We are back to square 1...dailies removed..but so is your access to that gear unless you raid...

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Reread what i said as well...I acknowleged your commitment, but I asked you for a suggestion of how it would take months to get gear solo aside from doing dailies or raiding.

    As far as raiders beating their heads agaisnt the wall, less than 10% of raiders have cleared the full tier, so ya, get the notion that WoW is easy out of your head. If you choose to only do the easy content, its easy (IE: solo content to get high end raid gear). If you choose to do the hard content, its as hard as any game.

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    I was going to say pandas, but thats just as obvious.

    image

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Reread what i said as well...I acknowleged your commitment, but I asked you for a suggestion of how it would take months to get gear solo aside from doing dailies or raiding.

    As far as raiders beating their heads agaisnt the wall, less than 10% of raiders have cleared the full tier, so ya, get the notion that WoW is easy out of your head. If you choose to only do the easy content, its easy (IE: solo content to get high end raid gear). If you choose to do the hard content, its as hard as any game.

     Raiding is the easiest way to obtain the best gear, it isn't hard in any game, especially newer games.

    There are numerous better systems than rep grinding, Heroic dungeons, (Master Mode dungeons would be nice), I.E. The master mode dungeons in Rift had the same challenge as the raids in my eyes (yes sadly I did raid a bit in Rift), just less people to lead/deal with.

    World events, Zone specific events, any sort of actual character progression system beyond level>dungeons>raid. Raiding should not be the end game, a new era of MMOs are upon us and a lot are taking notice. Crafted items should be on the same level as raid gear and dungeon gear. There is too much disparity between raiders and people who play the game for entertainment, and it has nothing to do with time invested to me, as I said I have no problem grinding months for a single piece of gear as long as the grind is fun.

    Raiding is the same thing as every other type of content Time Invested = Reward, and usually raiding is quicker for better rewards, thats the part of the system that is broken.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Reread what i said as well...I acknowleged your commitment, but I asked you for a suggestion of how it would take months to get gear solo aside from doing dailies or raiding.

    As far as raiders beating their heads agaisnt the wall, less than 10% of raiders have cleared the full tier, so ya, get the notion that WoW is easy out of your head. If you choose to only do the easy content, its easy (IE: solo content to get high end raid gear). If you choose to do the hard content, its as hard as any game.

     Raiding is the easiest way to obtain the best gear, it isn't hard in any game, especially newer games.

    There are numerous better systems than rep grinding, Heroic dungeons, (Master Mode dungeons would be nice), I.E. The master mode dungeons in Rift had the same challenge as the raids in my eyes (yes sadly I did raid a bit in Rift), just less people to lead/deal with.

    World events, Zone specific events, any sort of actual character progression system beyond level>dungeons>raid. Raiding should not be the end game, a new era of MMOs are upon us and a lot are taking notice. Crafted items should be on the same level as raid gear and dungeon gear. There is too much disparity between raiders and people who play the game for entertainment, and it has nothing to do with time invested to me, as I said I have no problem grinding months for a single piece of gear as long as the grind is fun.

    Raiding is the same thing as every other type of content Time Invested = Reward, and usually raiding is quicker for better rewards, thats the part of the system that is broken.

    Saying heoric Sha of Fear is "easy" when only 10% of raiders have even gotten that far, let alone beat it,  is pretty crazy if you dont mind me saying.

    If you want to bring up heroic dungons, then the "master mode dungons" in Rift, and pretend that the Challenge mode dungons in WoW dont exist...you can pretty much stop posting comments..

    Its obvious we cannot discuss this in a constructive manner.

  • ThebigthrillThebigthrill Eastpointe, MIPosts: 117Member
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Yeah i took that 10 day trial for MoP.

    Im sure there are people in this thread that are saying WoW is great but honestly if WoW released today it would die faster than Tabula Rasa...

    I've been away from WoW for a while... TERA interested me more than my recent WoW try, So did SWTOR and TSW and GW2 and RIFT! 

     

    WoW happens to have this insanely large playerbase that has sticked with the game for years, these guys don't play other games... its WoW everyday, every waking second of their free time. its like a cyber cult.

     

    Take a break from wow... maybe for three years and come back. Its an aged, inferior product. the combat is slow, the classes are simplistic, the graphics are low tech, the UI is horrid, The quests are cookie cutter, the dungeons are samey, the crafting is worthless and the AH is controlled by the gold farmers.

    I bet you anything, take a person that never played a MMO before, have him/her play Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR or even TERA for a few months, then give them a copy of World of Warcraft. WoW would be uninstalled in less than a day.

    Lol yea because SWTOR is a much more feature rich game than WOW.

     

     

    "Don't tell me what to do! , you're not my mod"

    Saying invented by me.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Reread what i said as well...I acknowleged your commitment, but I asked you for a suggestion of how it would take months to get gear solo aside from doing dailies or raiding.

    As far as raiders beating their heads agaisnt the wall, less than 10% of raiders have cleared the full tier, so ya, get the notion that WoW is easy out of your head. If you choose to only do the easy content, its easy (IE: solo content to get high end raid gear). If you choose to do the hard content, its as hard as any game.

     Raiding is the easiest way to obtain the best gear, it isn't hard in any game, especially newer games.

    There are numerous better systems than rep grinding, Heroic dungeons, (Master Mode dungeons would be nice), I.E. The master mode dungeons in Rift had the same challenge as the raids in my eyes (yes sadly I did raid a bit in Rift), just less people to lead/deal with.

    World events, Zone specific events, any sort of actual character progression system beyond level>dungeons>raid. Raiding should not be the end game, a new era of MMOs are upon us and a lot are taking notice. Crafted items should be on the same level as raid gear and dungeon gear. There is too much disparity between raiders and people who play the game for entertainment, and it has nothing to do with time invested to me, as I said I have no problem grinding months for a single piece of gear as long as the grind is fun.

    Raiding is the same thing as every other type of content Time Invested = Reward, and usually raiding is quicker for better rewards, thats the part of the system that is broken.

    Saying heoric Sha of Fear is "easy" when only 10% of raiders have even gotten that far, let alone beat it,  is pretty crazy if you dont mind me saying.

    If you want to bring up heroic dungons, then the "master mode dungons" in Rift, and pretend that the Challenge mode dungons in WoW dont exist...you can pretty much stop posting comments..

    Its obvious we cannot discuss this in a constructive manner.

    I thought we were doing just fine and being civil, but if you must concede, I will take my victories small and where I can get them. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but to me raiding is welfare epics, as it requires less time for a greater reward.

    Although I do like that I mention another good game with some good PvE content and all hell breaks loose and suddenly we aren't being constructive anymore.

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Reread what I said, I don't care how long it takes, 3 months for one piece of gear is fine for me as long as I'm having fun earning it. It has nothing to do with time invested and everything to do with what is entertaining. I SHOULD have to work for months to get the best gear.

    And no raider has beat there heads against a wall in years as far as I know.

    Reread what i said as well...I acknowleged your commitment, but I asked you for a suggestion of how it would take months to get gear solo aside from doing dailies or raiding.

    As far as raiders beating their heads agaisnt the wall, less than 10% of raiders have cleared the full tier, so ya, get the notion that WoW is easy out of your head. If you choose to only do the easy content, its easy (IE: solo content to get high end raid gear). If you choose to do the hard content, its as hard as any game.

     Raiding is the easiest way to obtain the best gear, it isn't hard in any game, especially newer games.

    There are numerous better systems than rep grinding, Heroic dungeons, (Master Mode dungeons would be nice), I.E. The master mode dungeons in Rift had the same challenge as the raids in my eyes (yes sadly I did raid a bit in Rift), just less people to lead/deal with.

    World events, Zone specific events, any sort of actual character progression system beyond level>dungeons>raid. Raiding should not be the end game, a new era of MMOs are upon us and a lot are taking notice. Crafted items should be on the same level as raid gear and dungeon gear. There is too much disparity between raiders and people who play the game for entertainment, and it has nothing to do with time invested to me, as I said I have no problem grinding months for a single piece of gear as long as the grind is fun.

    Raiding is the same thing as every other type of content Time Invested = Reward, and usually raiding is quicker for better rewards, thats the part of the system that is broken.

    Saying heoric Sha of Fear is "easy" when only 10% of raiders have even gotten that far, let alone beat it,  is pretty crazy if you dont mind me saying.

    If you want to bring up heroic dungons, then the "master mode dungons" in Rift, and pretend that the Challenge mode dungons in WoW dont exist...you can pretty much stop posting comments..

    Its obvious we cannot discuss this in a constructive manner.

    I thought we were doing just fine and being civil, but if you must concede, I will take my victories small and where I can get them. I'm sorry you don't agree with me, but to me raiding is welfare epics, as it requires less time for a greater reward.

    Although I do like that I mention another good game with some good PvE content and all hell breaks loose and suddenly we aren't being constructive anymore.

    You literally suggested that WoW add something that it already has a better version of...how are we supposed to talk about it when you are doing that?....I like how you say I "conceded" instead of actually addressing your "master mode dungon" comment...

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    The complete butchering a talent system into... well, no longer a talent system.

    Were cookie cutter builds better for the game? I would like a serious answer...there was 0 build diversity in the old talent system.

    The lack of diversity in the old system only came after WotLK. In TBC and Vanilla, there was very much diversity in how you specced.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

    image
  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member
    Originally posted by Thebigthrill

    Lol yea because SWTOR is a much more feature rich game than WOW.

     

     

    So you are comparing a 1 year old game to an 8 year old game ? That really makes sense. You should compare it to another 8 year old game, namely EQ2, don't you think ?

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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  • TalinTalin West Babylon, NYPosts: 824Member

    WoW is as much a social platform as facebook is due to the size of its playerbase. I imagine in some areas around the world, at some points in its popularity, not playing WoW may even have been likened to social suicide. Many other people return time and time again to reconnect with friends and guildmates in the game.

    I have to give Blizzard credit for continuously tweaking their product to support their "core" audience which is the non-hardcore gamer. I personally enjoyed playing the game years ago in vanilla and BC, but after having played numerous other games, I just don't care for most of the class dynamics and other game functionality. To each their own though.

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 984Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dimnikar

    The biggest mistake they made with MOP is that I'm not 7 years younger with a lot more free time on my hands.

     

    They really messed up on that one.

     

    P.S.: talent system wins hands down as the singlemost disappointing thing about MOP.

    In total agreement with the former; just picked up MoP after a 2-3 year hiatus, so not too sure about the latter yet.

     

    Blizzard is richer than the Monopoly guy; by now, they should have finished developing the Elixir of Seven Years Younger.  Hell, it should be distributed to anyone who bought MoP.

     

    I smell a conspiracy, and it smells like pandas. 

     

    Wait - that's not pandas...anyone smell popcorn? 

  • ProblemProblem Bedford, OHPosts: 71Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kabitoshin
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

    Ah ya, forgot to add that about the new talent system.

     

    • 11>the new talent system.

    I like the talent system now, mainly cause I don't have to click 100 times when I respec.

    No doubt clicking is serious business.

    Citizen: Preach your filth elsewhere!

  • AkumawraithAkumawraith Fort wayne, INPosts: 335Member Common

    First and foremost Blizzard ahs jack.. Activision gets all your cash folks. Blizz is just a sub.

    Second the talent system in vanilla was probably the best for player uniqueness but it was hell to set up and if you screwed it up you sucked.

    Third i will make it clear.. i absolutely hate linear questing in everyway, add to that the catalog quests and its a matched set in hell. Wow completely aced these functions because they had no choice.. but really do pigs not have livers? even if you kill 30 of them you have 6 livers out of all of them id be a little worried.

    Dailies.. ok folks reality check.. these are what developers come up with when they have absolutely no clue what to add in for content. its the bulshitters route plain and simple. I dont care if you like them or not.. they are thre because Blizzard had a moment of stupidity.

    LFD/LFR... what can i say it has its good point and bad.. are the people partying up with you total idiots are did you get a good group.. me? i get about 50-50.

    I have been playing WoW for far longer than i like to admit but i can tell you that on the first days I was in Stormwind when certain asshats were doing naughty things and handing out end game gear at lvl 1. yeah you can imagine that didnt last long.

    I have seen wow de-evolved from a game that took time and talent to a game the gimme generation can jump into and have a ball.. for all of a few days of effort then get bored and whine about the things they dont like.  And noone can say that Vanilla WoW didnt take time.. omfg the time to level from 30-50 is the longest grind i ever did in my life for a game... it took forever.. well seemed that way any ways.

    Yes WoW has about 9 million player.. they announced they lost another 400k last month so its getting closer to 9, and yes it has a open world format with minimal loading screens. Brilliantly played by Blizzard. I can only think of one game that may beat Blizz in that and thats Citadel of Sorcery.. if they ever finish developing it...

    The UI and combat system.. auto targetting and auto hitting while mashing a few buttons gets boring after a few years.. I want to move around get into deep crap and try to get my but out alive.. i havent felt that in wow since BWL. as far as the UI, i see it in alot of games. if it works why not? if its ugly then fix it theres all kinds of addons you can get to change how your UI looks.

    I played WoW for many years and I quit after MoP was released not because of the content, not because of the raids or even the dailies.. it was because I got tired of Blizzard releasing incomplete conent Xpacs which is how they have started doing things. To me if you create an expansion you release the content thats expected, you dont hold the meat and potatos of the expansion till 4-6 months after release. Blizz gets aways with it because most players dont know that isnt how its done. I would say most of the players now about 60-70% of the base arewrath babies that didnt know how an expansion was supposed to work. I know there are those who will justify the missing content expansions... and ill say it straight:

    I really dont care what you fan boys of wow have to say. its my opinion. Have a nice day.

     

    Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT

    Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.

    Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games

    Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member

    I'd never done WoW's endgame until I did Cataclism - I was bored by the dailies and the rewards were not worth the time, in my opinion.

     

    This was the main reason why I didn't buy MoP.

     

    I suspect the 'daily grind' is main reason why people quit WoW in general.

     

    You never want a game to resemble work.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by sportsfan
    Originally posted by Z3R01

    Yeah i took that 10 day trial for MoP.

    Im sure there are people in this thread that are saying WoW is great but honestly if WoW released today it would die faster than Tabula Rasa...

    I've been away from WoW for a while... TERA interested me more than my recent WoW try, So did SWTOR and TSW and GW2 and RIFT! 

     

    WoW happens to have this insanely large playerbase that has sticked with the game for years, these guys don't play other games... its WoW everyday, every waking second of their free time. its like a cyber cult.

     

    Take a break from wow... maybe for three years and come back. Its an aged, inferior product. the combat is slow, the classes are simplistic, the graphics are low tech, the UI is horrid, The quests are cookie cutter, the dungeons are samey, the crafting is worthless and the AH is controlled by the gold farmers.

    I bet you anything, take a person that never played a MMO before, have him/her play Guild Wars 2 or SWTOR or even TERA for a few months, then give them a copy of World of Warcraft. WoW would be uninstalled in less than a day.

     

     

     BS.

    WoW has 9.6 million paying subscriptions or ... > 1 billion dollars revenue as we speak.

    The rest lays in the cords, mostly in bed with life support.

    The situation is THIS dramatic that WoW no longer even HAS a competition in the subscription field anymore.

    All the rest has gone free to play as no one was even willing to pay a sub (well except EVE and 15% of the initial Rift servers housing a few hundred people...)

    So. Clear BS. yeah just ignore the fact WOW makes > 1 billion dollars  each year.

    One word: open seamless world of Azeroth blows ANY loading screen of failed sub based games like SW TOR/ Tera or that free to play stuff in GW2 right out of the water. Not even talking about seamless cross server open world play.

    The rest is not even nearing, the gap was never wider than before in basic infrastructure  and revenue (and I am sure Titan will blow anything even further away when they'll start over from scratch).

    If you're decribing the levelling game in WoW, I think you might have a point.

    However, the problem with WoW is the 'daily grind' at the level cap.

    It always has been the problem with WoW - ever since 2003.

    The thing is, WoW probably isn't worth the sub after a month or two of play - for most people.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by sxvs

    mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.

    everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.

    even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.

    it stopped being a game at some point.

     

    maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.

    The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.

    What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).

    No - the vanilla parts of the map are much less of a grind than the other regions - for a good reason:

    You see, in vanilla you have the choice of levelling in 3 different zones per level. 

    In the expension packs, it's generally just one zone per level. So after level 60, the sense of adventure and exploration diminishes and it becomes more of a grind.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne LondonPosts: 1,420Member
    Originally posted by sxvs
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by sxvs
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by sxvs
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by sxvs

    mists of pandaria seems to me like one giant grind enhanced 100 times over.

    everything about it felt like a grind, i know wow is a grindy game but there used to be small things in between the grinds, pandaria is just a grind.

    even listening to the story felt like a grind to me.

    it stopped being a game at some point.

     

    maybe it was always just a grind but for whatever reason it didn't feel totally like a grind to me the way mists of pandaria has.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    WoW in its current form is nowhere near the grind it used to be in Vanilla/BC....the problem is that they started pretty much handing you free gear at the end of the last 2 expansions, therefore as soon as they introduce something even resembling a "grind" (aka, not free loot), people lose their minds.

    The next raid tier will not completely negate the previous, as has been common place in wow since Wotlk. Back in Vanilla/BC, your new toons had to run tier 1 in order to do tier 2, then tier 2 in order to do tier 3 etc etc.. Wotlk intorduced 5 man dungon "make up mechanics", so new toons could jump into the latest tear with no progression. They are going back to actial tier'd progression, whcih in my view, is way more healthier.

    What will more than likely happen though, are more posts about how "grindy" the game is, simply because stuff isnt just given to you anymore (like in the previous 2 expansions).

     

    i don't know, trying to gain the 15 reputations or whatever it is over a long period of time sure felt like a grind to me.. i logged in, did my daily reputation quests and by that time i was pretty much done playing.

    what is that? i pay to log in and do a monotonous daily quest over and over each day?

    and on every character no less.

    What is the goal/reason of doing dailies? Gear. The only reason to do dailies each and every day is to gain access to their gear, which goes back to what I just said. Nowhere in my post did I say that dailies were not a grind. I hate dailies with a passion, so I ended up raiding instead for my gear (which is a choice everyone can make).  My point was that the grind is nowhere near the lvl it was in Vanilla/BC, its just that gear is no longer just handed out freely, you have to work for it, which has people upset.

    You literally confirmed the point I was making.

     

    the point of doing dailies isn't specifically gear, i don't raid... there's also mounts and other odds and ends and just the simple case of completion.

    i did the dailies because what else is there to do? that was my point.

     

     

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I get the feeling that your implication is that they removed everyting in the game that you like doing, so you are forced to do dailies. The game has the same endgame content it has always had, with quite a few additions. There is raiding, LFR, 5 mans, professions, pet battles, and dailies (I may even be missing some). From the sound of it, the only thing you like doing are quests, yet you hate the daily "grind". If you dont like any of the endgame WoW has to offer, why play it? If questing is all you care about, may I suggest SWTOR? To try and pass off the argument that WoW has somehow changed into something else (regarding what there is to do), is completely forced.

     

    i'm simply saying the feel of it has changed for me... it doesn't feel like i'm playing a game any more.

    i played since open beta and had fun up to mists of pandaria/cataclysm, it never felt like a simple grind to me before and now it does.

    why that is i don't completely know...

    i don't mind a grind, or working over time to achieve something but with mists of pandaria i don't have any fun whatsoever, doesn't feel like i'm playing a game.

    i basically log in to do a job and then log out.

    it was never like that before.

    maybe it was because i obtained things faster and was able to go out and enjoy the game instead of spending so much time on the grind aspect of it, not saying that's wrong.. i don't know specifically what the cause is.

    it started with cataclysm and concluded with mists.

    This happened to me. I think it's because to begin with WoW is a novelty.

    After a while, you know what to expect.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Paddyspub

    This is just my 2 cents but:

     

    • 1>The gated VP gear (Really makes it hard to want to level alts past 89.
    • 2>No flying till 90, cant even fly when dead (Imo, Blizz should make it so you can buy flying for alts after 85)
    • 3>Dailes, dailies, more dailies, how about some moar dailies, and then some dailies,  talk about overkill
    • 4>Alot of mobs have to much health thus making some dailies a chore at 90 to do.
    • 5>Did I mention dailies?
    • 6>The broken LFR loot system
    • 7>Grind from 85 to 90 pretty isnt THAT bad but still it really slows down but 13 million from 85>86, yikes!
    • 8>The overall Disney-vibe feel of the xpac lacks the coolness of the Classic, BC, Wotlk epic feeling.
    • 9>Some quests are just terrible (those ones in Jade Forest where you control chars in a story, Im looking at you)
    • 10> Oh yea, I forgot.................Dailies!
     
    Now, Blizz did get alot of things right since the last time I played in Wotlk.   I love how its real easy to find groups for DR, LFR, etc.  I also like how you dont need a raid group to solo old raiding content.  Also the monk class is pretty nice.  The graphics also in MOP are pretty top-notch. 
     
    My biggest beef from the list above all is the gated rep, thus pretty much forcing you to do dailies on alts that sometimes are just a chore to do, even on your main.    Yea sure you can go around the rep gear by buying BOE epics (if you are rich) and try your luck with getting an epic in Heriocs, otherwise you are at the complete mercy of RNG (like the loot system is borked imo)
     
    That is just bad design imo, why Blizz doesnt have a system like in Wotlk is beyond me.  If you want leet-skillz herioc raid epics, then you gotta really earn it, but if you are casual and just want some badge gear style epics or epics from herioc dungeons (like in those ICC herioc dungeons) then thats good too.   Really hope Blizz listens and changes these things ive listed in their next epac.

    I do not agree on single point. MOP is great as it is. Truth is it is first expansion I have stopped (temporarely, make no mistake) to play before leveling all my 11 alts to max, still 4 remaining as I remember around 87, but nowadays there are valid alternatives to alternate gameplay. Currently playing GW2, then will SWTOR, barely can wait TESO, Neverw...... Only complain I have is leveling is too fast, but that was problem also with Cata.

  • ghostfaeriesghostfaeries the Land of OooPosts: 86Member
    this is the sad truth. haha. I skipped as many quests as possible trying to get my main to 90 so that I could PvP. I have leveled one alt since then and I don't plan on leveling anything else! the valor restrictions are dumb. I didn't even begin to grind out reputation on one of my toons... they are supposedly letting you gain rep via dungeons next patch, I think.
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