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Please no GCD in Camelot Unchained

MidHealerMidHealer StuttgartPosts: 15Member

 

As the title says, no GCD, pretty please :)

 

Such abomination as GCD is maybe good for WoW and whatnot, but it will only ruin CU experience.

 

On the similar note, please reduce the number of instant, timed abilities - this leads only to people waiting for timers to recycle, and then dumping (almost) all of the instant abilities at once at the beginning of the fight, thus often ending the fight in the first 2 seconds.

Some instant abilities should, of course, still be implemented, but having too many of them, either as spells or as item abilities is only serving to ruin the fun of tactical fighting, what with fights being over in few seconds.

 

Birger, Galahad, Healer
Midgard forever

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Comments

  • CananCanan Wedowee, ALPosts: 94Member
    I agree, please do not have a global cool down.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,536Member Uncommon

     

    It will depend on their technology and if they localize servers or not.  Technology has not progressed to a point where latency is not a problem for the majority of the world when the server is stationed thousands of miles away.  While 1.5 GDC is a bit extreme with today's current technology, they will probably still have a 0.7 or so at the very least.  If they went with absolutely no GDC, some elitist with a lot of money that loves this game will just buy a house next to their servers so that he/she could get even the slightest advantage over the rest of the world (come on, we all know some people are like that).

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • SyrixIISyrixII Loris, SCPosts: 43Member
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk

     

    It will depend on their technology and if they localize servers or not.  Technology has not progressed to a point where latency is not a problem for the majority of the world when the server is stationed thousands of miles away.  While 1.5 GDC is a bit extreme with today's current technology, they will probably still have a 0.7 or so at the very least.  If they went with absolutely no GDC, some elitist with a lot of money that loves this game will just buy a house next to their servers so that he/she could get even the slightest advantage over the rest of the world (come on, we all know some people are like that).

    I think you're missing the point...

    I hope they do away with GCD. Your argument is that GCD is to prevent latency issues. Spell queueing solves the same problem. The big problem GCD brings to the table (which i think has ruined MMO tab target combat) is that it allows instant attacks to become predominant sources or damage. Instant, spells, Instant melee/ranged attacks. I was much happier with the casting system of pre-GCD days. Each spells would have a cast time. while casting that spell, you could "queue" the next spell, so that as soon as you finishing casting this spell your character starts the next spell. It serves the same purpose as a GCD without having one. This generally makes casters more stationary and based on what Mark has already said about casters being less mobile (not to mention DAOC did not have a GCD) and not bouncing around while casting... It's a decent possibility that camelot unchained may not see a GCD either. I think it makes attacks more manageable from a balancing perspective as well. It keeps them all on your base attack timer instead of just unloading all your instant attacks immediately at the start of a fight.

    Don't get me wrong, GCD did have a purpose though. It allowed developers to do a few things they were not capable of in the non-GCD era. It allowed them to add instant skills (spells, attacks, and other utility skills) without putting cooldowns on them. That also made players more mobile for the more action oriented crowd.

    I'm sure i am missing a few points here, but I did want to put these thoughts out there to think about.

    It is NOT about latency though. That was handled way before GCD came along.

  • Teh_AxiTeh_Axi HalifaxPosts: 380Member

    I'd rather have combat closer too vanilla WoW then DAoC snail paced combat personally.

  • JaggaSpikesJaggaSpikes LabinPosts: 421Member Uncommon
    so, OP, your problem is actually proliferation of instant abilities, and not GCD? because, GCD doesn't make instants happen. it's other way around.
  • MidHealerMidHealer StuttgartPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by spinner_vis
    so, OP, your problem is actually proliferation of instant abilities, and not GCD? because, GCD doesn't make instants happen. it's other way around.

    Yeah, I know, I have expressed myself rather poorly there image

    I have adressed two separate issues - GCD in practically all WoW-like MMOs (where instants are not so big of an issue), and insta-dumping (which happened in DAoC with far too many insta abilities available, be it spells or items). Nex time I will make two separate threads image

     

     

    Birger, Galahad, Healer
    Midgard forever

  • JithakJithak MunsterPosts: 9Member

    While I prefer the DAoC combat system GCD isn't always a really bad idea. You could still make your GCD time dependend on your weapon speed which would not be of much difference when playing a pure melee class. Or dependend on your casting speed. Further more you could take specific abilities off your GCD or not triggering one. Then the only thing you would lose in comparison to DAoCs system would be firing off instants while you're casting another spell but it would be a GCD system.

  • JaggaSpikesJaggaSpikes LabinPosts: 421Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MidHealer
    Originally posted by spinner_vis
    so, OP, your problem is actually proliferation of instant abilities, and not GCD? because, GCD doesn't make instants happen. it's other way around.

    Yeah, I know, I have expressed myself rather poorly there image

    I have adressed two separate issues - GCD in practically all WoW-like MMOs (where instants are not so big of an issue), and insta-dumping (which happened in DAoC with far too many insta abilities available, be it spells or items). Nex time I will make two separate threads image

    separate issues? but, what are your reasons for wanting GCD gone? GCD solves exactly the issue that you seem to be bothered with, that of insta-dumping.

  • OdamanOdaman Satesboro, GAPosts: 194Member
    I'm not a fan of GCD myself. I don't mind dumping instant cast spells, there shouldn't be many in game anyways other than oh shit buttons and maybe certain debuffs. My main issue with a GCD is that it means melee combat is probably going to be the same old white and yellow numbers game where style animations look like crap (auto attacks and styles w/ conflicting animations) and melee styles feel like little more than a close range magic spell. It's not a make or break thing for me though.... I know I'm biased and looking for a combat system similar to daoc. It's a hard thing to stop doing.
  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    GCD is only to make it fair for those people who react slower than the average human being. It is like a handicap in sports. You don't need a GCD!
  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by spinner_vis
    Originally posted by MidHealer
    Originally posted by spinner_vis
    so, OP, your problem is actually proliferation of instant abilities, and not GCD? because, GCD doesn't make instants happen. it's other way around.

    Yeah, I know, I have expressed myself rather poorly there image

    I have adressed two separate issues - GCD in practically all WoW-like MMOs (where instants are not so big of an issue), and insta-dumping (which happened in DAoC with far too many insta abilities available, be it spells or items). Nex time I will make two separate threads image

    separate issues? but, what are your reasons for wanting GCD gone? GCD solves exactly the issue that you seem to be bothered with, that of insta-dumping.

    You're mixing cooldown and global cooldown here.

    Cooldowns are for preventing instant abilities from being spammed, global cooldowns prevent you from doing any two things at the same time no matter how different in purpose they are.

    A place where cooldowns make sense are when you have two instant abilities that both do damage. If using both at the same time causes too much frontloading damage, then you could consider using a partial shared cooldown.

     

    An example of what I mean, lets use the daoc skald that has 2 instant DDs. I don't remember the cooldowns on them, but lets say they're both 30 second cooldowns. They have their own cooldown, and a partially shared cooldown of 1 second could prevent you from skald-cleaving. You could still used them back to back and at the same time as other instant abilities, just not the same time as each other.

     

    This concept of partially sharing cooldowns is much different than a global cooldown. Global cooldown applies to everything. In this case if a skald changed songs he would not be able to instant DD or swing his hammer until the global cooldown allowed him to.

    A GCD's purpose is to lower the skill cap, has nothing to do with latency.

    image

  • kraidenkraiden Staff Writer Edgewater, NJPosts: 638Member
    Originally posted by MidHealer

     

    As the title says, no GCD, pretty please :)

     

    Such abomination as GCD is maybe good for WoW and whatnot, but it will only ruin CU experience.

     

    On the similar note, please reduce the number of instant, timed abilities - this leads only to people waiting for timers to recycle, and then dumping (almost) all of the instant abilities at once at the beginning of the fight, thus often ending the fight in the first 2 seconds.

    Some instant abilities should, of course, still be implemented, but having too many of them, either as spells or as item abilities is only serving to ruin the fun of tactical fighting, what with fights being over in few seconds.

     

    i for one dont want 9 spells being cast per seconds. think about it, daoc didnt have a global cooldown but every spell had a cast time and all melee abilities had a delay timer based on the weapon speed. 

    But I agree with you on one point, there should be almost zero instant abilities in the game and the ones in the game should be about as powerful as rank 0 cantrips in D&D.

    example 5 sec cast heal would restore 90% health. 2.5 sec cast heal would restore 30% a  2 sec cast HoT resotres 60% health over 15 sec. but a cantrip insta cast hot restores 10% health over 10 seconds.

    it made me so angry when i played WoW that a mage could take you from 100% to dead and never actually STOP to cast a single spell. a game where casters didnt cast just dosent sit well with me. but having a game without global cooldowns only works for me if we use weapon delays and cast times. if you want "faster i press the button the faster i attack" then im not for that at all.

    I want my pvp to be determined by what i press WHEN, not by my twitch skills.

  • VyethVyeth Fayetteville, NCPosts: 1,459Member
    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    GCD is only to make it fair for those people who react slower than the average human being. It is like a handicap in sports. You don't need a GCD!

    Reaction time online is moot because we all know that macros handle battle that is not on GCD anyway..

    Instead of spamming away on your keyboard, you just click a script and it spams for you..

    I don't really care either way as I prefer combat to require more tactics than just the speed at which you use skills..

    image

  • aylwynnaylwynn idontsayPosts: 94Member
    What does GCD stand for?
  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member
    Originally posted by aylwynn
    What does GCD stand for?

    Global Cool Down. Its mentioned earlier in the thread

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • JaggaSpikesJaggaSpikes LabinPosts: 421Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aylwynn
    What does GCD stand for?

    global cooldown. time period during which no (or most) ability can be used. it's used to prevent spamming of instants.

  • MajorBiggsMajorBiggs Visalia, CAPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aylwynn
    What does GCD stand for?

    GCD = Global Cooldown

    Lemme snip this from the WoW wiki (just an example of how they it)

    "A global or universal cooldown, frequently shortened to "GCD", is the cooldown which starts every time you start to cast a spell, and it affects all of your class spells (...) The basic rule of thumb is that if the spell affects the casting of the next spell, it will not activate the global cooldown."

    "If the spell has a casting time less than the global cooldown (or instant cast), you generally have to wait the remainder of the global cooldown. If a spell with casting time is interrupted before it has finished casting, the global cooldown will be canceled, meaning you can start casting a new one immediately."

     

    I think this is shown in most similar games but, if you pay attention to the hotbar when you press a key to cast a spell/use ability, alot of the other spell/abilities on the hotbar will go through a quick cooldown animation thing. Jus look at any gameplay vid on youtube for WoW

  • aylwynnaylwynn idontsayPosts: 94Member

    Alright - At least now I know what you're talking about :D

    Sometime Global/Skillgroup Cooldowns make sense. It makes sense that you cannot spam all your Healing/Mana Pots of different levels because they have a "GDC".

    Skills in DAoC didn't need any GDC because most of them needed time to execute or casttime - Instant or Direct Damage charges should've been timed perfectly in a groupfight.

     

    It really depends if there would be something like "casttime" or attackspeed/attacktimer. I don't really expect an action MMORPG with a lot of buttonmashing like in GuildWars 2 or World of Warcraft, to be honest. GDC + casttime interrupted is just useless. Its annoying enough if you get interrupted while casting a powerful spell. If this game would be resourcebased and spamable interrupt casts would exist ... GDC would be useless.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by Thorbrand
    GCD is only to make it fair for those people who react slower than the average human being. It is like a handicap in sports. You don't need a GCD!

    Reaction time has nothing to do with it, you generally already know what buttom you would need to press next when chaining abilities, or you're just mashing the one button. people who can preform less APM, though yea sure it does.

    But yea the main issue is latency, i think the spell was aether flame in aion, some americans could get off about 11 in 1 aerial shackle, Australians could get off about 3, pretty dumb mechanic.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 467Member Uncommon

    Folks,

       Just poking my head in while I take a break from the Lost Levels (1 more to go). Sorry about no blog post today but here's a few things to talk/argue about in regards to this thread (and then I'm vanishing again).

    1) No GCD for CU. It makes sense in some games but I don't want to have one in CU.

    2) There *might* be a very limited set of instant cast spells but please keep the words "limited" and "might" in mind as you continue your discussions. I could see some spells that could be useful in non-combat situations being insta-cast but I believe we really need to limit the insta-cast spells/abilities quite heavily in the combat portion of our RvR game. No matter what, there will not be a lot of insta-cast skills in combat, that part has already been decided on. I just want to reserve the possilibility of some insta-casts for very unique combat situations and/or out of combat spell casting.

    3) I also believe that we don't want a lot of players running around as fast as they can while casting spells, using abilities, etc. if we want to have a successful combat system so expect that casting & moving is not going to be a core component of the system.

    Okay, back to work, Boss level here I come.

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member

    How will melee be handled then? by weapon swing speed or animation or something else?

    also if you make melee abilities stand you still while they animate...like aion...i will find you and DESTROY you!...it makes for terribly clunky bad melee play.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • HokibukisaHokibukisa Midland, GAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by skyexile

    How will melee be handled then? by weapon swing speed or animation or something else?

    also if you make melee abilities stand you still while they animate...like aion...i will find you and DESTROY you!...it makes for terribly clunky bad melee play.

    Calm down dude, install daoc trial and all will be clear to you my son.

    image

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz North Las Vegas, NVPosts: 268Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

       Just poking my head in while I take a break from the Lost Levels (1 more to go). Sorry about no blog post today but here's a few things to talk/argue about in regards to this thread (and then I'm vanishing again).

    1) No GCD for CU. It makes sense in some games but I don't want to have one in CU.

    2) There *might* be a very limited set of instant cast spells but please keep the words "limited" and "might" in mind as you continue your discussions. I could see some spells that could be useful in non-combat situations being insta-cast but I believe we really need to limit the insta-cast spells/abilities quite heavily in the combat portion of our RvR game. No matter what, there will not be a lot of insta-cast skills in combat, that part has already been decided on. I just want to reserve the possilibility of some insta-casts for very unique combat situations and/or out of combat spell casting.

    3) I also believe that we don't want a lot of players running around as fast as they can while casting spells, using abilities, etc. if we want to have a successful combat system so expect that casting & moving is not going to be a core component of the system.

    Okay, back to work, Boss level here I come.

    Mark

    I agree with all of that. I personally prefer no global cooldown but have cast times on spells. I'm not a fan of instant cast unless, like in daoc, as soon as a melee hits a caster he can no longer cast. I'm not a fan of that system either. Let a caster cast, but not move while doing so, and there is no reason to have insta casts. Melee weapon styles I wouldn't consider insta spells. They have animations associated with them as well which can work as a buffer to not make them instant. But melee styles should be quicker to fire off as melee's gotta cover ground to get to a caster.

     

    But all in all this is music to my ears. It means no more run at full skald speed and drive by aoe mez/root the first thing you see and win.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Teh_Axi

    I'd rather have combat closer too vanilla WoW then DAoC snail paced combat personally.

    Same here but I would also rather there be Reticule based Action Combat.  Loved DAoC but after 9 years of other MMO's I see it was really slow and boring.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raagnarz
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

       Just poking my head in while I take a break from the Lost Levels (1 more to go). Sorry about no blog post today but here's a few things to talk/argue about in regards to this thread (and then I'm vanishing again).

    1) No GCD for CU. It makes sense in some games but I don't want to have one in CU.

    2) There *might* be a very limited set of instant cast spells but please keep the words "limited" and "might" in mind as you continue your discussions. I could see some spells that could be useful in non-combat situations being insta-cast but I believe we really need to limit the insta-cast spells/abilities quite heavily in the combat portion of our RvR game. No matter what, there will not be a lot of insta-cast skills in combat, that part has already been decided on. I just want to reserve the possilibility of some insta-casts for very unique combat situations and/or out of combat spell casting.

    3) I also believe that we don't want a lot of players running around as fast as they can while casting spells, using abilities, etc. if we want to have a successful combat system so expect that casting & moving is not going to be a core component of the system.

    Okay, back to work, Boss level here I come.

    Mark

    I agree with all of that. I personally prefer no global cooldown but have cast times on spells. I'm not a fan of instant cast unless, like in daoc, as soon as a melee hits a caster he can no longer cast. I'm not a fan of that system either. Let a caster cast, but not move while doing so, and there is no reason to have insta casts. Melee weapon styles I wouldn't consider insta spells. They have animations associated with them as well which can work as a buffer to not make them instant. But melee styles should be quicker to fire off as melee's gotta cover ground to get to a caster.

     

    But all in all this is music to my ears. It means no more run at full skald speed and drive by aoe mez/root the first thing you see and win.

    I agree with Mark here.  The reason why a caster cant cast is because he actually had several long moments to get free spells of while the melee closed the distance.  Although TBH I'd rather have a action combat or a GW2 combat.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

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