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Radar
MidHealer
Member Posts: 15
As many of us can surely remember, radar issue was a big problem in DAoC days, especially in RvR.
At the beginning (I started Nov. 1, 2001), the frontier kill spam (and chat) was THE way to find action, and to try to guess where the enemy is, and how many of them are there.
There were actual scouts in frontiers, archers, speed classes and stealthers, giving reports as to where the enemy is.
But, alas, that changed quickly, and for the worse.
Up until the first big wave of radar-bans, radar-using "leet groups", lot of stealthers and many others were running rampant in Frontiers, basically ruining the RvR for the rest of us.
The major argument of radar-users was that they use it "only avoid zerg" and to "find equal 8v8 fights" or, in case of stealthers, "to avoid other radar users" and "find 1v1 fights". Mostly, radar-groups were using it to avoid enemies until their timers recycled, because, everyone simply had to have radar and all timers up, otherwise you could not, you know, "compete" 
Later on, a kind of "official" radar was introduced, showing where the actions is, kind of. Whether it was enough to make radar-users happy... I do not think so, frankly. I believe many, if not all of them simply went on using it, the bigger and "better" versions.
So, what to do about the radar?
Enjoy our time until the client is hacked and radar rears its ugly head again? Or, put radar in the game, so that everyone has access to it? It sounds like a solution, but somehow reduces the enjoyment of not knowing what is behind that bend in the road, or behind those trees, or, worse of all, who is coming behind you 
Birger, Galahad, Healer
Midgard forever
Comments
I wish they could not use a radar of any kind and combat ways of users being able to hack/ues tools to find one themselves.
I'm not a developer though so I don't know how that worked in DAOC or how players were able to make one themselves.
In one of the interviews (or perhaps it was the blog) Mark mentions the map and how it will not be that detailed and what not, it wouldn't make sense then to have a radar showing you everything.
IMO radars take the surprises and fun out of pvp.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
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Well, that's a bold statement
It is actually pretty hard to prevent someone from creating a radar. They will either inject the process and read other player data (coordinates, class, race, etc) directly from memory (that worked even later, when this data was encrypted). This is, however, somewhat easier to detect (by CSE).
The other, advanced radars used/will use network packet sniffiing and decoding, either on the same machine (somewhat detectable), or on a second machine (practically undetectable).
The radars killed the fun in Frontiers (by "but we only wanted fair 8v8 fights!1111one" lamers), and I do not want or need one, even not really wanting the official one. But, knowing how hard it is to prevent creation of radars, this seems like already lost fight
Birger, Galahad, Healer
Midgard forever
I see.
Well then, this will be part of the Eula: "Any persons using radar or simular hacks and cheats will be hunted down in real life and Blood-Eagled"
There. That should do it.
As they later proved, it's not an impossible technical challenge to detect radar users and ban them. So what they need to do is make that a priority from day one instead of letting radar use go unchecked for 5 years.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
All radar users (and any exploiter for that matter) should burn in MMO hell where they have to play the MMO they hate the most forever.
Anyway, if a company is unable to prevent those cheats or just not willing to spent the resources on it, I would prefer an officially provided radar. I like equal playing fields.
As far as I can recall.. and it's been awhile, but Shadowbane (another heavy pvp game) had radar. It was ok in Shadowbane it only showed dots for people. The Nations and factions were player made, so it did not differentiate. It just show blue dots. some were allies, some enemies, so you still needed scouts. It didn't seem to have that much of an impact on the game.
I only played DAoC for a bit, so I'm not sure how much it effected the game. We the factions shown as different colors?
I'm quite confident in stating radar, speed hacks, and pos teleporting will be in this game.
They're in every MMO.
Well then. I guess they need to try and curb that the best they can. Cheaters wreck games, period.
I despise hacks and cheats with a passion.
It wasn't built into the game - it was a separate process that decoded network traffic. You could even tell what class each person was playing.
Really unfortunate, but hasn't been a problem for a long long time.
I was surprised it never really caught on for WoW, but I guess with PVP the way it was at launch, nobody cares. And with instanced arcade combat, nobody cares.
It'd be nice if the world map did some of the DAOC style "there's a lot of action going on over here..." type stuff, but that's all I'd want.
Was it really that bad? I played on a smaller German server where radar was never a real issue.
I also don't get why anybody would use that. The thrill of not knowing what comes next is the most exciting part at RvR.
Well , making an undetected radar will be really easy.
I mean even WoW is filled with them and they can't do anything about it.
We can only hope no one will decide to develop one
Behind every great fortune was a great crime. And most of the early realm rank 10s in the game all used radar at some point. The excuses have already been listed by the OP, but, nevertheless, they used it. When TOA came out, a lot people starting getting banned. Of course, their excuse was TOA was too hard. I played a kobold savage when TOA launched. I PUG'd every RVR group I was ever in up until that point. Yet, I was still the 2nd person for realm on the server to have a level 10 shades of mist. Their excuses were total bs. Steriods and baseball, same crap.