Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I think that warrants at least one link.
And I'd personally remove the word 'forward' from that last line.
Well IQ scores certainly move up from generation to generation, it is called the Flynn effect. In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 IQ points. However it is debatable as to what IQ score actually measures.
As to the post I have certainly noticed that younger players in general have:
less patience
less interest in problem solving in MMORPGs
a lof of experience in console games and a desire to move features from console games to MMORPGs
a desire to avoid playing low level content and move straight to MOBA style end game play
a more abusive attitude and a higher tolerance for bad language and intolerent behaviour
Yep. Seems the more technology thrown at people, the less they think for themselves, or do themselves if it can be done for them"conveniently". The more technology, the dumber people get when thinking for themselves is not required in other words.
2012 was an amazing time for MMO's and 2013 will be even better. Now 2014 on you might have a case but then again theres no other games coming out I am looking forward to, especially titan. Will never touch a Blizzard product again.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Well IQ scores certainly move up from generation to generation, it is called the Flynn effect. In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 IQ points. However it is debatable as to what IQ score actually measures.
As to the post I have certainly noticed that younger players in general have:
less patience
less interest in problem solving in MMORPGs
a lof of experience in console games and a desire to move features from console games to MMORPGs
a desire to avoid playing low level content and move straight to MOBA style end game play
a more abusive attitude and a higher tolerance for bad language and intolerent behaviour
Yes, what IQ scores measures is debatable, but in the last half a century the improved nutrition has been thought to be atleast the part cause of height increase and intelligence increase. So to some extent, the average height has predicted average intelligence. Then again, I doubt that has had a significant effect for decades now.
All this is, is just oldschoolers trying to feel superior / lashing out. Despite what you say you're quite immature.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Huge expectations, hardly any delivery. AoC and WAR back then, SW TOR and GW2 now.
If GW2 had a sub, it would hardly be played.
2012 was the year of the Rat: everything drowned unless they went free to play. (well except WoW and EVE and a few stranded symbolic preachers in 15% of the initial Rift servers).
From what I read and see from the Internet, its the adults who need a heavy dose of commong sense.
This calls for some Infographics for the attention impaired:
Fundamentally different. Really. Us old folks are vastly superior in every possible way, clearly.
It is interesting that we choose to blame anyone (except ourselves) for how the very first (and then next) computer-literate generation turned out.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Er... not to be pedantic here, but there is no "Massive" in MMORPG, it is "massively" and it goes in tandem with the word mutiplayer, meaning massive amounts of people.. it has nothing to do with world size. In PoE, do you encounter dozens or hundreds of other players in a zone?
So, every MUD ever marketed is an MMO then?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Since you calling their advertisement flat out lies, I would love to hear some excamples.
Ok, i play your game. Let's take the most recent released big title, Guildwars 2. Just to name a few promises.
1. Server Guesting, has been touted as the big feature multiple times over 5 years. Not in the game at release and still to this day not in the game.
2. The strict no grind philosophy they been spreading for years and reality is that the end game they call "Fractals" is probably the grindiest end game system ever invented.
In fact, ANet admitted to these and other misleading facts they have spread and are giving everyone a refund if he asks for one.
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by BlackcatZero
yes an I agree on something is going wrong when game companies expect $200 or $300 for a beta (it may be as simple as they ran out of money for there project and can or need help funding the project to make they're game) mmoprg cost tons to make and if it's funding they need to up frfont and say we would like to give u our product but it cost more money then we have please help and we make the choise to help or not. your saying it isn't right or we should not spend money on games or what we like and spend money on. hint I supposted Darkfall:unholy war and dislike it so I just canceled and said after this no more money. I spent money on age of wushu and have not regreed it same goes for Defiance and Neverwinter. but in the end it's my choise and anyone else that decided to suppost them.
Im curious, which games charge that kind of money just a beta?
Plenty of Kickstarter had exclusive BETA access at $100+ Levels. Currently Neverwinter MMO wants $199 for a founders pack. (to be fair there is also a mroe limited $60 package).
Just an fyi. Guesting is already in and there are alternative ways to get ascended gear. You dont even have to do fractals anymore. In fact fractals are now taken as just a challenge of ability and a good way to earn money since they have made it extremely easy to get ascended gear
Er... not to be pedantic here, but there is no "Massive" in MMORPG, it is "massively" and it goes in tandem with the word mutiplayer, meaning massive amounts of people.. it has nothing to do with world size. In PoE, do you encounter dozens or hundreds of other players in a zone?
So, every MUD ever marketed is an MMO then?
I don't know, I was just correcting someone's misuse of the term MMORPG. Ever marketed? That's a pretty big scope, but essentially I think they're very similar in concept. MMO's would be a direct descendent of MUDs.
My question about PoE was a genuine one though, since I've never played it.
From what I read and see from the Internet, its the adults who need a heavy dose of commong sense.
This calls for some Infographics for the attention impaired:
Fundamentally different. Really. Us old folks are vastly superior in every possible way, clearly.
It is interesting that we choose to blame anyone (except ourselves) for how the very first (and then next) computer-literate generation turned out.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Why, so did I. I was seven.
But...what does that have to do with anything?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
I am glad i am not the only one that comes from the era before the internet an home computer was "invented". I salute you sir!
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Why, so did I. I was seven.
But...what does that have to do with anything?
Nothing mutch was just commenting on the graphic really. Comparing a teen in 1982 with a teen in 2012 was a bit off the mark when some of us were teens in the 60's and 70s.
Let me see, music Moody Blues, Led Zepplin, lots of Gilbert and Sulivan. Movies "A Man for All Seasons", "Doctor Zchivago", "Romeo and Juliet". Video Game, none. Played D&D PnP though, Diplomacy and competitive Chess. Sports Stars, not one for sports stars, maybe some of the Olympic Fencers and Modern Pentatheletes. Working RMC (Officer School) before that lots of jobs including filling grocery bags at the supermarket and selling the Horse Manure I collected from the fields for keen gardeners and sold field mushrooms from the same fields. Oh and books, Lord of the Rings of course but also Tolstoy, Dochevsky and Dickens and far too mutch Science Fiction.
Comparing a teen in 1982 with a teen in 2012 was a bit off the mark when some of us were teens in the 60's and 70s.
Was kind of nostalgic though. I played music on the local FM radio station for those 80s kids.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Why, so did I. I was seven.
But...what does that have to do with anything?
Nothing mutch was just commenting on the graphic really. Comparing a teen in 1982 with a teen in 2012 was a bit off the mark when some of us were teens in the 60's and 70s.
Oh, right. You have seven years on me, you were already out of high school when PCs hit the market (barely).
Vast disparity of experience, surely.
Have we been waving our "I'm-so-old" wangs for so long that we need to split hairs this finely, really?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yes, what IQ scores measures is debatable, but in the last half a century the improved nutrition has been thought to be atleast the part cause of height increase and intelligence increase. So to some extent, the average height has predicted average intelligence. Then again, I doubt that has had a significant effect for decades now.
All this is, is just oldschoolers trying to feel superior / lashing out. Despite what you say you're quite immature.
Originally posted by Quirhid
From what I read and see from the Internet, its the adults who need a heavy dose of commong sense.
Now now, young whippersnapper. Why don't you sit over there with the WoW players, Justin Bieber and Twillight fans while the adults talk.
Disclaimer: This is intended as a humorous comment not to offend or troll the person quoted. If you are in any way offended please accept my humble appologies.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Why, so did I. I was seven.
But...what does that have to do with anything?
Nothing mutch was just commenting on the graphic really. Comparing a teen in 1982 with a teen in 2012 was a bit off the mark when some of us were teens in the 60's and 70s.
Oh, right. You have seven years on me, you were already out of high school when PCs hit the market (barely).
Vast disparity of experience, surely.
Have we been waving our "I'm-so-old" wangs for so long that we need to split hairs this finely, really?
Speak for yourself I dont have many hairs left to split let me enjoy them while I can.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What? o.o I mean I am nowhere near 60 years of age but... doesn't this all smack a bit of "I've got more experience than you so I am right" arguments? Don't get me wrong I consider the gradual degradation of the difficulty of games in general to be something rather sad personally but... if you want a difficult but rewarding experience in an MMO there are many choices out there you just have to look for them (Wurm, EVE-Online, high population private servers of games that have vanished or been changed in recent years, etc,etc) as many of them aren't that publicized for whatever reasons.
That said games will never again be as hard as Castlevania, Metroid, Megaman or Ninja Gaiden, why? Because arcades have long, long since stopped being a important source of income for publishers and the home console and home PC user has become the principal source of income for most publishers ergo they cater towards these people and no matter how much you say so the number of people who want to put a wii mote hole in their flat screen due to frustration at the difficulty of the game is pretty small, most people just wanna fire up their entertainment system and have fun and for some it's mindless, for some it's mildly challanging, for you it could be sadistically challanging but considering you are only part of the equation yet you still buy the game the only way to get a hardcore difficulty level on your game which would be the way you like it is to vote for it with your wallet, if enough people do that developers would spend the 1-2 months of coding time putting in a slightly smarter AI for the hardcore crowd and basically win more money doing it.
From what I read and see from the Internet, its the adults who need a heavy dose of commong sense.
This calls for some Infographics for the attention impaired:
Fundamentally different. Really. Us old folks are vastly superior in every possible way, clearly.
It is interesting that we choose to blame anyone (except ourselves) for how the very first (and then next) computer-literate generation turned out.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Its quite funny you say you are older than him when you two are actually the same age.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
I am glad i am not the only one that comes from the era before the internet an home computer was "invented". I salute you sir!
Might want to adjust your claimed age...if we take the early CPM machines as a starting date, say 1978, you would've been...eleven?
Apparently, we've started shaving e-Cred really finely for exclusion or entry to the dusty old pharts club.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
Care to share your sources for all this research, because the sources i read say different. If you just spend 5 minutes on google you find that your statement is completely false. You can't just come here and make stuff up to fit your agenda. You are going to be called out on it, thats how forums work, buddy.
"The 'high-level thinking' skills of 14-year-olds are now on a par with those of 12-year-olds in 1976."
"Previous research by Professor Shayer has shown that 11-year-olds' grasp of concepts such as volume, density, quantity and weight appears to have declined over the last 30 years."
"The study reviewed test scores of 800 thirteen- and fourteen-year-olds and compared them with similar tests of teens from 1976, a generation ago. The results? In one test, only one in ten of the current teens tested with top scores, down from one in four twenty years ago. In another, only one in twenty reached the top score compared to one in five from the 1976 batch. Professor Michael Shayer, who lead the study, believes the educational focus on testing (rather than learning) is at least partially to blame."
Here's some more data:
The Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs commissioned a civic education poll among public school students. A surprising 77% didn't know that George Washington was the first President; couldn't name Thomas Jefferson as the author of the Declaration of Independence, and only 2.8% of the students actually passed the citizenship test. Along similar lines, the Goldwater Institute of Phoenix did the same survey and only 3.5% of students passed the civics test.
On the eve of the Iraq War, 69% of American's thought Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks; four years later, even though proof had been provided that he was not, 34% still believe he was.
18% of Americans still believe that the sun revolves around the earth, according to a Gallup poll.
According to another poll, the average American voter believes that U.S. foreign aid consumes 24% of the Federal budget, when it is only 1%.
The American Association of State Colleges and Universities report on education shows that the U.S. ranks second among all nations in the proportion of the population aged 35-64 with a college degree, but 19th in the percentage of those aged 25-34 with an associates or high school diploma, which means that for the first time, the educational attainment of young people will be lower than their parents'.
In a Newsweek poll, of U.S. citizens, 29% couldn't identify Joe Biden as the Vice President, and 44% couldn't describe the Bill of Rights.
In a 2009 survey of a number of European countries and the U.S. on international affairs, a significant majority of Europeans could identify the Taliban, and just over 50% of Americans could, despite the heavy presence of the U.S. in Afghanistan.
Researcher Kyung Hee Kim at the College of William & Mary analyzed 300,00 Torrance Creativity Test scores of children and adults in the US. Kim found creativity and IQ scores rose steadily until 1990, and were in decline thereafter, and the most serious decline occurring for the youngest children.
In 1966-67, approximately 1.4 million students who took the verbal portion of the S.A.T and a score of 700 or more was achieved by 33,000 students. In 1986-87 over 1.8 million students took the test and a score of 700 or higher was attained by fewer than 14,000.
A new global study of educational systems in major nations ranks U.S. 15 year olds 14th in the world in reading skills, 17th in science and 25th (below average) in math.
According the 2009 National Assessment of Educational Progress, 68% of public school children in the U.S. do not read proficiently by the time they finish third grade. And the U.S. News & World reported that barely 50% of students are ready for college level reading.
Of the 21 countries participating in the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, American high school seniors did better than only 2 countries--Cyprus and South Africa.
According to the National Endowment for the Arts report in 1982, 82% of college graduates read novels or poems for pleasure; two decades later only 67% did. And more than 40% of Americans under 44 did not read a single book--fiction or nonfiction--over the course of a year. The proportion of 17 year olds who read nothing (unless required by school ) has doubled between 1984-2004.
Renowned T.V. producer Jerry Bruckheimer, who has produced many successful T.V. shows, was once quoted as saying, "it is getting harder and harder to underestimate the intelligence of the American public. It now averages well below the previous 6th grade level."
...and many many more.
PUBLIC being the key word....look at government officials of an degree on any level of the "Government Food Chain" and you will find them to be lazy, uncooperative and lacking any motivation to do their job.
As some dude in "Remember the Titans" said - "Attitude Reflects Leadership"
Comments
Yep. Seems the more technology thrown at people, the less they think for themselves, or do themselves if it can be done for them"conveniently". The more technology, the dumber people get when thinking for themselves is not required in other words.
But now you've opened a can or worms.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
haha..... no. They simply have more information at their fingertips. Common sense, however, is out the window.
Yes, what IQ scores measures is debatable, but in the last half a century the improved nutrition has been thought to be atleast the part cause of height increase and intelligence increase. So to some extent, the average height has predicted average intelligence. Then again, I doubt that has had a significant effect for decades now.
All this is, is just oldschoolers trying to feel superior / lashing out. Despite what you say you're quite immature.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
From what I read and see from the Internet, its the adults who need a heavy dose of commong sense.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
i wounder were did you get this kind of assumbshion
remmber if you dont like dosent mean it bad
This calls for some Infographics for the attention impaired:
Fundamentally different. Really. Us old folks are vastly superior in every possible way, clearly.
It is interesting that we choose to blame anyone (except ourselves) for how the very first (and then next) computer-literate generation turned out.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
So, every MUD ever marketed is an MMO then?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Just an fyi. Guesting is already in and there are alternative ways to get ascended gear. You dont even have to do fractals anymore. In fact fractals are now taken as just a challenge of ability and a good way to earn money since they have made it extremely easy to get ascended gear
I don't know, I was just correcting someone's misuse of the term MMORPG. Ever marketed? That's a pretty big scope, but essentially I think they're very similar in concept. MMO's would be a direct descendent of MUDs.
My question about PoE was a genuine one though, since I've never played it.
Quite clever, but you should have checked my age. I am older than Bill Gates and remember an era before the PC and Consoles. I also remember watching the moon landing live.
Why, so did I. I was seven.
But...what does that have to do with anything?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am glad i am not the only one that comes from the era before the internet an home computer was "invented". I salute you sir!
Nothing mutch was just commenting on the graphic really. Comparing a teen in 1982 with a teen in 2012 was a bit off the mark when some of us were teens in the 60's and 70s.
Let me see, music Moody Blues, Led Zepplin, lots of Gilbert and Sulivan. Movies "A Man for All Seasons", "Doctor Zchivago", "Romeo and Juliet". Video Game, none. Played D&D PnP though, Diplomacy and competitive Chess. Sports Stars, not one for sports stars, maybe some of the Olympic Fencers and Modern Pentatheletes. Working RMC (Officer School) before that lots of jobs including filling grocery bags at the supermarket and selling the Horse Manure I collected from the fields for keen gardeners and sold field mushrooms from the same fields. Oh and books, Lord of the Rings of course but also Tolstoy, Dochevsky and Dickens and far too mutch Science Fiction.
Was kind of nostalgic though. I played music on the local FM radio station for those 80s kids.
Oh, right. You have seven years on me, you were already out of high school when PCs hit the market (barely).
Vast disparity of experience, surely.
Have we been waving our "I'm-so-old" wangs for so long that we need to split hairs this finely, really?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Now now, young whippersnapper. Why don't you sit over there with the WoW players, Justin Bieber and Twillight fans while the adults talk.
Disclaimer: This is intended as a humorous comment not to offend or troll the person quoted. If you are in any way offended please accept my humble appologies.
Speak for yourself I dont have many hairs left to split let me enjoy them while I can.
Welcome to ye olde nostalgia wallow.
A weekly event.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What? o.o I mean I am nowhere near 60 years of age but... doesn't this all smack a bit of "I've got more experience than you so I am right" arguments? Don't get me wrong I consider the gradual degradation of the difficulty of games in general to be something rather sad personally but... if you want a difficult but rewarding experience in an MMO there are many choices out there you just have to look for them (Wurm, EVE-Online, high population private servers of games that have vanished or been changed in recent years, etc,etc) as many of them aren't that publicized for whatever reasons.
That said games will never again be as hard as Castlevania, Metroid, Megaman or Ninja Gaiden, why? Because arcades have long, long since stopped being a important source of income for publishers and the home console and home PC user has become the principal source of income for most publishers ergo they cater towards these people and no matter how much you say so the number of people who want to put a wii mote hole in their flat screen due to frustration at the difficulty of the game is pretty small, most people just wanna fire up their entertainment system and have fun and for some it's mindless, for some it's mildly challanging, for you it could be sadistically challanging but considering you are only part of the equation yet you still buy the game the only way to get a hardcore difficulty level on your game which would be the way you like it is to vote for it with your wallet, if enough people do that developers would spend the 1-2 months of coding time putting in a slightly smarter AI for the hardcore crowd and basically win more money doing it.
Your going to love this my other half saw your avatar and I had to prove I was not chatting up a younger woman on line.
Anyhow its goodnight from me.
Its quite funny you say you are older than him when you two are actually the same age.
Might want to adjust your claimed age...if we take the early CPM machines as a starting date, say 1978, you would've been...eleven?
Apparently, we've started shaving e-Cred really finely for exclusion or entry to the dusty old pharts club.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm kinda with the OP.
The only game in recent memory that was worth it's box price and hype IMHO was RIFT.
I bought every Major title that came down the road since WAR, and I'm currently not playing any of them.
In fact, As much as I hate F2P I've accually gotten more worth out of a few of them, then the titles I purchased.
The OP is fundamentaly right, most of these titles comming out these days are just steaming piles of grabastic amphibian Sh*t.
I'm going to give CU and Black Desert a Chance, and consider AA, and Bless on teh fringe, but after that,
if none of those titles pan out I'm done with MMOs.
PUBLIC being the key word....look at government officials of an degree on any level of the "Government Food Chain" and you will find them to be lazy, uncooperative and lacking any motivation to do their job.
As some dude in "Remember the Titans" said - "Attitude Reflects Leadership"