Theme park?

xpiher · February 2013

Is the game themepark with a quest creator?

Aerowyn · February 2013

yes

xpiher · February 2013

Damn oh well, at least it will be a good way to digitall play NW DnD :P

gillrmn · February 2013

You can easily create Sandbox quests in foundry if you want to.

Try the campaign showing in the sig next beta. It is a sandbox quest.

Caldrin · February 2013

whats a sandbox quest lol..

From what i have read of NW it sounds liek an instanced dungeon game with a quest hub similar to what GW was like.. not really interested in this at all.

xpiher · February 2013

Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

sacredfool · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

Seriously.... for one.... content takes 20x longer to develop then it does to play through. So content will always be lacking, even in games developed for 10 years. You can either limit the scope (and then people cry "OMG i beat the game in 2hours... i quit!!!! " ), you can also put in grind ( "Omg this quest asks me to kill 100 rats.... i quit!!! " ) or you can allow players to craft their own content ( " OMG they are open-sourcing development.... i quit!!!" ? ).

Secondly... if they can allow players to develop content... why not?

EDIT:

If anything, the ability to develop content is the only truly "sandbox" element MMOs can have. And while developing streamlined quests is hardly sandboxy, the act of building the content itself is what sandbox gameplay is about! Instead of implicitly claiming it's unacceptable for them to allow players to develop their own content look at it as the first step to a real sandbox game which is crafted by it's players from ground up.

Isawa · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

Isn't that what DnD players want? The ability to create dungeons ha.

xpiher · February 2013

Originally posted by sacredfool
Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

If anything, the ability to develop content is the only truly "sandbox" element MMOs can have. And while developing streamlined quests is hardly sandboxy, the act of building the content itself is what sandbox gameplay is about! Instead of implicitly claiming it's unacceptable for them to allow players to develop their own content look at it as the first step to a real sandbox game which is crafted by it's players from ground up.

I just find it funny that people are praising a feature that lest developers off the hook and existed in CoH/CoV. And no, creating content isn't what sandbox games is all about, not in the sense that its created to be consumed once and then be done. When someone says sandbox games are about playre created content they mean player driven content which impacts that world i.e. building a house out in the world that can only be removed from decay, terraforaming, political meta game, singular events that actually change the game itself, etc.

I'm not saying its a bad decision, I just don't think it should be praised as innovative.

Caldrin · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

I actually like that there is an option to create your own missions it worked well in STO and it didnt stop the devs adding content either.. the foundry is actually one fo the better things about their games. I do agree that this featrue does not make the game a sandbox tho LOL...

Still tis a very good feature that i would like to see in other MMOs

ShakyMo · February 2013

A cursory look at the website, and noting the games heavy emphasis on running instances would have answered your question op.

xpiher · February 2013

Originally posted by ShakyMo
A cursory look at the website, and noting the games heavy emphasis on running instances would have answered your question op.

running instances doesn't make a game non-sandbox. I was just making sure that the foundry was nothing more than a quest instance creator. I do like the story system which can be sandboxy, but its not enough.

evilastro · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

This is hands down the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Because:

1) No development company could ever keep up with the content locusts. Ever.

2) It gives people creativity to create many different variations of quests and adventures.

A better question would be, why do people think its acceptable to be spoon fed content at a limited rate when they could just open-source the tools and create unlimited quantities of content?

evilastro · February 2013

Also since the basic definition of sandbox is player made content, I don't see how games like Archage, Age of Wushu and Darkfall are being touted as sandboxes and this game isn't?

Those games have freeform character development, but not really any character made content.

Some people think that freeform character development makes a game a sandbox, yet Champions Online and The Secret World have freeform character development and neither of those are touted as sandboxes.

Wish people would make up their mind as to what makes a sandbox.

sacredfool · February 2013

I will agree that player created content like the Foundry isn't a sandbox element yet since it's not player driven. But what you don't seem to get is that it's a step in the right direction.

What sandboxes are aiming for is openworld zones with "minecrafty" possibilities. Zones you can control and develop. Zones where you can create items that will be important to a larger player driven economy.

And while the quest creator does not give us that it gives us the ability to create instanced areas. Being able to do that it's only a small step to being able to create instanced "minecrafty" zones (or even instanced player owned housing) which will (hopefully) evolve into open world minecrafty zones, finally getting us to a sandbox.

Caldrin · February 2013

Originally posted by evilastro
Also since the basic definition of sandbox is player made content, I don't see how games like Archage, Age of Wushu and Darkfall are being touted as sandboxes and this game isn't?

Those games have freeform character development, but not really any character made content.

Some people think that freeform character development makes a game a sandbox, yet Champions Online and The Secret World have freeform character development and neither of those are touted as sandboxes.

Wish people would make up their mind as to what makes a sandbox.

not that i dont agree with what your saying about sandbox games.. but are people really saying age of wushu is a sandbox? LOL its just a themepark game.

Derros · February 2013

People thought a DnD game would be sandbox?

xpiher · February 2013

Originally posted by evilastro
Also since the basic definition of sandbox is player made content, I don't see how games like Archage, Age of Wushu and Darkfall are being touted as sandboxes and this game isn't?

Those games have freeform character development, but not really any character made content.

Some people think that freeform character development makes a game a sandbox, yet Champions Online and The Secret World have freeform character development and neither of those are touted as sandboxes.

Wish people would make up their mind as to what makes a sandbox.

People who say AoW is sandbox are dumb. Its a free form themepark game, but not a sandbox.

Like I said in the AoW forums on this website, sandbox games are defined by characters having a direct impact on the world. Look at EvE as a model for successful sandbox games, people build space stations, take over planets, control the economy, enter into politics, etc etc. ArchAge is sandbox for many of the same reasons: politics, the ability to build housing and destory it, taxation, elect governments, take over governments, farm, and in general shape the world. The quest creator does not do this.

And while you may think its better for the developers to open source the content creation than waiting for content to be created I can kind of agree with you. However, there isn't anything new about this.

BTW Pathfinder Online will be a sandbox game so yes, DnD can be sandbox.

fs23otm · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by evilastro
Also since the basic definition of sandbox is player made content, I don't see how games like Archage, Age of Wushu and Darkfall are being touted as sandboxes and this game isn't?

Those games have freeform character development, but not really any character made content.

Some people think that freeform character development makes a game a sandbox, yet Champions Online and The Secret World have freeform character development and neither of those are touted as sandboxes.

Wish people would make up their mind as to what makes a sandbox.

People who say AoW is sandbox are dumb. Its a free form themepark game, but not a sandbox.

Like I said in the AoW forums on this website, sandbox games are defined by characters having a direct impact on the world. Look at EvE as a model for successful sandbox games, people build space stations, take over planets, control the economy, enter into politics, etc etc. ArchAge is sandbox for many of the same reasons: politics, the ability to build housing and destory it, taxation, elect governments, take over governments, farm, and in general shape the world. The quest creator does not do this.

And while you may think its better for the developers to open source the content creation than waiting for content to be created I can kind of agree with you. However, there isn't anything new about this.

BTW Pathfinder Online will be a sandbox game so yes, DnD can be sandbox.

By your definition Tera would be considered a sandbox because of it political system. The only part it is missing is housing. That is why I call BS on all people who whine about sandbox feature. A game could meet 99% of what sandbox is, and sandboxes would still whine it wasn't a sandbox.

Truth is the only sandbox that really exists is EVE and Minecraft.....and there will never be another of those type games.

xpiher · February 2013

Originally posted by fs23otm
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by evilastro
Also since the basic definition of sandbox is player made content, I don't see how games like Archage, Age of Wushu and Darkfall are being touted as sandboxes and this game isn't?

Those games have freeform character development, but not really any character made content.

Some people think that freeform character development makes a game a sandbox, yet Champions Online and The Secret World have freeform character development and neither of those are touted as sandboxes.

Wish people would make up their mind as to what makes a sandbox.

People who say AoW is sandbox are dumb. Its a free form themepark game, but not a sandbox.

Like I said in the AoW forums on this website, sandbox games are defined by characters having a direct impact on the world. Look at EvE as a model for successful sandbox games, people build space stations, take over planets, control the economy, enter into politics, etc etc. ArchAge is sandbox for many of the same reasons: politics, the ability to build housing and destory it, taxation, elect governments, take over governments, farm, and in general shape the world. The quest creator does not do this.

And while you may think its better for the developers to open source the content creation than waiting for content to be created I can kind of agree with you. However, there isn't anything new about this.

BTW Pathfinder Online will be a sandbox game so yes, DnD can be sandbox.

By your definition Tera would be considered a sandbox because of it political system. The only part it is missing is housing. That is why I call BS on all people who whine about sandbox feature. A game could meet 99% of what sandbox is, and sandboxes would still whine it wasn't a sandbox.

Truth is the only sandbox that really exists is EVE and Minecraft.....and there will never be another of those type games.

Perpetum, The Repopulation, Salem, Haven and Hearth, Ultima Online, Star Citizen, SWG pre NGE (removed a lot of the sandbox content), Moral Online, Day Z (although small scale), etc are all sandbox games. Vanguard was close, but had linear progression in quests, dungeons, and items. Same thing with Tera. A political system isn't the only thing that makes a game a sandbox, but its an important feautre IMO due to the fact that it keeps things fresh. UO didn't have politics in the meaningful sense but it had EVERYTHING ELSE, player created maps, houses, stores, faction warfare, guild warfare, stealing, skill based level/character system, etc etc.

AoW is close to a sandbox the issue is with the way content is delievered. Most of it is deilevered like a repeatable daily and territory control is gimmickie and very in the standard Asian style. What sets ArchAge apart from AoW is both the character creation system (although AoW does this well by allowing you to steal other school's skills and forcing you to rely on other playres to finish it very sandboxy) but also with the way housing and territory control is set up. When you take over an area you have direct control over it. You can tax people who live in your "kingdom" or destroy their house, or steal their crops whenever you want. The amount of player driven content by that alone makes me drool.

Kaerigan · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Playing through a story line isn't very sandbox guys. Also, why do people think its acceptable to open-source developement to supplement content that lacks in a game?

Boo for more content!

fs23otm · February 2013

Originally posted by xpiher
Perpetum, The Repopulation, Salem, Haven and Hearth, Ultima Online, Star Citizen, SWG pre NGE (removed a lot of the sandbox content), Moral Online, Day Z (although small scale), etc are all sandbox games. Vanguard was close, but had linear progression in quests, dungeons, and items. Same thing with Tera. A political system isn't the only thing that makes a game a sandbox, but its an important feautre IMO due to the fact that it keeps things fresh. UO didn't have politics in the meaningful sense but it had EVERYTHING ELSE, player created maps, houses, stores, faction warfare, guild warfare, stealing, skill based level/character system, etc etc.

AoW is close to a sandbox the issue is with the way content is delievered. Most of it is deilevered like a repeatable daily and territory control is gimmickie and very in the standard Asian style. What sets ArchAge apart from AoW is both the character creation system (although AoW does this well by allowing you to steal other school's skills and forcing you to rely on other playres to finish it very sandboxy) but also with the way housing and territory control is set up. When you take over an area you have direct control over it. You can tax people who live in your "kingdom" or destroy their house, or steal their crops whenever you want. The amount of player driven content by that alone makes me drool.

If you look at my quote, I was pointing out how he was saying player ran governments make a sandbox. Tera fit HIS definition.

The fun thing about sandbox games is they are niche... bottom line. Every game you listed is small market, not that there is anything wrong with that. The thing wrong is the "sandbox community" coming here to whine about all the other games that aren't sandboxes.

Back on topic however, NW will be a good game, with some user crested content. I would rather have a good game with the possibility for good user created content than a sandbox.

I played UO, I played SWG pre-NGE, I played EQ.... and for the most part todays games are better entertainment experiences then the past. Why? Time you are required to play vs Time you have to play. Most of the UO, EQ, SWG generations are 10+ years older with less time.

I will enjoy NW, and I will make some kick butt content with it for all to enjoy.

emikochan · February 2013

Open sourced content is the definition of a sandbox. If you can't make things in the game that weren't there before you joined, then it's not a sandbox is it

TheDarkrayne · February 2013

I'd say it's a themepark.. but it is possible to create free roam and/or non-linear quests and dungeons with the foundry.

xpiher · February 2013

Originally posted by fs23otm
Originally posted by xpiher
Perpetum, The Repopulation, Salem, Haven and Hearth, Ultima Online, Star Citizen, SWG pre NGE (removed a lot of the sandbox content), Moral Online, Day Z (although small scale), etc are all sandbox games. Vanguard was close, but had linear progression in quests, dungeons, and items. Same thing with Tera. A political system isn't the only thing that makes a game a sandbox, but its an important feautre IMO due to the fact that it keeps things fresh. UO didn't have politics in the meaningful sense but it had EVERYTHING ELSE, player created maps, houses, stores, faction warfare, guild warfare, stealing, skill based level/character system, etc etc.

AoW is close to a sandbox the issue is with the way content is delievered. Most of it is deilevered like a repeatable daily and territory control is gimmickie and very in the standard Asian style. What sets ArchAge apart from AoW is both the character creation system (although AoW does this well by allowing you to steal other school's skills and forcing you to rely on other playres to finish it very sandboxy) but also with the way housing and territory control is set up. When you take over an area you have direct control over it. You can tax people who live in your "kingdom" or destroy their house, or steal their crops whenever you want. The amount of player driven content by that alone makes me drool.

If you look at my quote, I was pointing out how he was saying player ran governments make a sandbox. Tera fit HIS definition.

The fun thing about sandbox games is they are niche... bottom line. Every game you listed is small market, not that there is anything wrong with that. The thing wrong is the "sandbox community" coming here to whine about all the other games that aren't sandboxes.

Back on topic however, NW will be a good game, with some user crested content. I would rather have a good game with the possibility for good user created content than a sandbox.

I played UO, I played SWG pre-NGE, I played EQ.... and for the most part todays games are better entertainment experiences then the past. Why? Time you are required to play vs Time you have to play. Most of the UO, EQ, SWG generations are 10+ years older with less time.

I will enjoy NW, and I will make some kick butt content with it for all to enjoy.

You do realize you are replying ot the same person right? BTW, I'm not complaining the game isn't sandbox. I was asking if it was because I saw some sandbox elements in the story lines influencing how the world treats you.

StarI · February 2013

If you're not entirely sure about the differences between themepark and sandbox questing, than read on.

I'll start with sandbox examples because I believe everyone (should) know what a themepark quest is (talk to npc or visit an area-initiate a task-carry the task out to finish the quest).

Just to clear it up, a sandbox may have some themepark questing included, but only as a "fluff" to add a little dimension but in no way should a player look at themepark questing as a main body of a game in a real sandbox!

So what is a real sandbox quest? Read the example below (added markers Q1-4 to make quests parts clearer).

You heard that there are random treasures to be found across the land where you live in. You decide to try your luck hunting treasure chest so you head out exploring (Q1). Following a road it brings you near what it seems abandoned village overrun by some evil npc mobs. You decide to avoid it, just when you spot a fellow player fighting a group of skeletons behind one of the cottages. He seems low on health so you instead decide to aid him (Q2). After the fight you greet him "Hi" and ask what's he up to. He tells you the skeletons poses certain items he needs for crafting his new armor and you decide to join on the grind (Q3). You know there are sometimes player bandits plundering this land, deciding not to stay around for too long and instead head home to secure your loot and prepare for a big clan adventure in the evening... Your clan leader has planned a raid on nearby player populated fort in an attempt to claim it home and make lands more secure for our own (Q4).

I think the above 4Quest example doesn't need much more explanations.

Basicaly every decision you make is a quest and it's up to you and you alone to pick and walk a path. For example at Q1 you could have instead went fishing. At Q2 you could have decided to kill a player, to stand by and lol at his death, or to simply pursue your first Quest no matter what. At Q4 you could decide to offer help with war preparations, could go scout enemy area, you could try to be an infiltrator and a spy, etc..

You and your fellow gamers make your own quests, but you do NOT need any quest generator or quest creator. Because in many cases You and your fellow gamers ARE the quests. Player interaction is very important, but not just any player interaction.

Every themepark has player interaction as well. It's just that themepark games as whole are bottled down into many predefined ways, instances, hand held options and such that only allow to very limited results (not talking about quantity) and player interaction often reflects that.

One other related thing, a real sanbox requires more energy from players. Wait, no it doesn't really require anything, but your game time will reflect lazzines, unsocial behaviour and similar traits much more than a themepark does. You need more self initiative to do stuff and this is one of the main reasons why so many people play themeparks where things are predefined by developers and often get thrown right in your face to comfort you more.

So yeah, to end directly on topic, quest creator is esentially just as much as themepark as is sandbox. Both themepark AND sandbox can have such a tool but it doesn't necessarily define a game in one or the other way.

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