yes an I agree on something is going wrong when game companies expect $200 or $300 for a beta (it may be as simple as they ran out of money for there project and can or need help funding the project to make they're game) mmoprg cost tons to make and if it's funding they need to up frfont and say we would like to give u our product but it cost more money then we have please help and we make the choise to help or not. your saying it isn't right or we should not spend money on games or what we like and spend money on. hint I supposted Darkfall:unholy war and dislike it so I just canceled and said after this no more money. I spent money on age of wushu and have not regreed it same goes for Defiance and Neverwinter. but in the end it's my choise and anyone else that decided to suppost them.
Im curious, which games charge that kind of money just a beta?
Since you calling their advertisement flat out lies, I would love to hear some excamples.
Ok, i play your game. Let's take the most recent released big title, Guildwars 2. Just to name a few promises.
1. Server Guesting, has been touted as the big feature multiple times over 5 years. Not in the game at release and still to this day not in the game.
2. The strict no grind philosophy they been spreading for years and reality is that the end game they call "Fractals" is probably the grindiest end game system ever invented.
In fact, ANet admitted to these and other misleading facts they have spread and are giving everyone a refund if he asks for one.
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by BlackcatZero
yes an I agree on something is going wrong when game companies expect $200 or $300 for a beta (it may be as simple as they ran out of money for there project and can or need help funding the project to make they're game) mmoprg cost tons to make and if it's funding they need to up frfont and say we would like to give u our product but it cost more money then we have please help and we make the choise to help or not. your saying it isn't right or we should not spend money on games or what we like and spend money on. hint I supposted Darkfall:unholy war and dislike it so I just canceled and said after this no more money. I spent money on age of wushu and have not regreed it same goes for Defiance and Neverwinter. but in the end it's my choise and anyone else that decided to suppost them.
Im curious, which games charge that kind of money just a beta?
Plenty of Kickstarter had exclusive BETA access at $100+ Levels. Currently Neverwinter MMO wants $199 for a founders pack. (to be fair there is also a mroe limited $60 package).
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
yes an I agree on something is going wrong when game companies expect $200 or $300 for a beta (it may be as simple as they ran out of money for there project and can or need help funding the project to make they're game) mmoprg cost tons to make and if it's funding they need to up frfont and say we would like to give u our product but it cost more money then we have please help and we make the choise to help or not. your saying it isn't right or we should not spend money on games or what we like and spend money on. hint I supposted Darkfall:unholy war and dislike it so I just canceled and said after this no more money. I spent money on age of wushu and have not regreed it same goes for Defiance and Neverwinter. but in the end it's my choise and anyone else that decided to suppost them.
No they are not expecting everyone to pay. No one is forcing you to pay. It is a free world, isn't it? What is wrong with charging whatever for the beta product a dev is producing?
It's a free world so spammers should be able to spam here and the mods should let it go... con artists should be able to take all of your grandparent's retirement savings without consequences...yeah love that "free world" kinda of thinking.
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated from their money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
This trend started a while back with "lifetime subscriptions." The pitch is that you're not a true fan or committed enough to your beloved game unless you become a lifer. All they have to give you is a description and a bit of art with a mishmash of anti-MMORPG Big Company Establishment features to make them seem cutting-edge. Now they've just figured out a way to get you to commit and be a lifer on spec before they have anything for you to play.
Yeah...let's get rid of regulations, governments and law enforcement then no one can force you to do anything...it'd be such a better world wouldn't it?
This is just the gamer equivalent of the Nigerian tied-up funds so they need your bank account info scam. More sophisticated and more targetted but pretty dodgy.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated their your money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
As long as there is no false advertising, and no fraud, i don't see why not. If some "gamers" have such desire, it is called a demand to be filled.
Personallly i think it is silly, but what is wrong for these whales to pay for what they know is coming ... a beta.
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated their your money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
As long as there is no false advertising, and no fraud, i don't see why not. If some "gamers" have such desire, it is called a demand to be filled.
Personallly i think it is silly, but what is wrong for these whales to pay for what they know is coming ... a beta.
Guildwars admitted to false advertising and is giving everyone a refund without questions asked. It's the right thing to do, no question about that, but its despicable to try and get away with it first.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated their your money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
As long as there is no false advertising, and no fraud, i don't see why not. If some "gamers" have such desire, it is called a demand to be filled.
Personallly i think it is silly, but what is wrong for these whales to pay for what they know is coming ... a beta.
Guildwars admitted to false advertising and is giving everyone a refund without questions asked. It's the right thing to do, no question about that, but its despicable to try and get away with it first.
No they have not. Where is this from? I have never seen anything posted ANYWHERE where A.Net said this. Remember what we put on this site, open MMORPG.COM to law suits. Conjecture and utter tripe and slander comes to mind.
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated their your money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
As long as there is no false advertising, and no fraud, i don't see why not. If some "gamers" have such desire, it is called a demand to be filled.
Personallly i think it is silly, but what is wrong for these whales to pay for what they know is coming ... a beta.
Guildwars admitted to false advertising and is giving everyone a refund without questions asked. It's the right thing to do, no question about that, but its despicable to try and get away with it first.
No they have not. Where is this from? I have never seen anything posted ANYWHERE where A.Net said this. Remember what we put on this site, open MMORPG.COM to law suits. Conjecture and utter tripe and slander comes to mind.
The OP has the best of intentions here but my problem with this post is the fact were not getting the same MMOs this year when finally MMOs are being developed in a different direction of the sandpark (hybrid) Archeage, The Repopulation, Wildstar, and some not so much in the hybrid direction The Elder Scrolls Online (jury is still out on this one) they are trying new things.
Slamming crowdfunding isn't the right thing to do how are they a culprit? These are indie developers without backing of major funding that want to get their game off the ground and some of them are catching the gamer's eyes . WIthout the inteference of investors and publishers telling them what to do to, appealing to lowest common denominator, dumbing it down, MMO lovers can have a game that they actually want to play for more than 1 month.
To be honest we need new directions, new ways to fund games without assholes like EA or Activison with their hands in the pie. Investors and business types who know nothing about gaming or design whatsoever, its killing the gaming industry, market studies , surveys, charts and graphs show minute information on what gamers want, so they believe they are helping by funding games that noone wants or just rehashes of the last 4 releases (Call of Duty)
Ill be happy to pay for crowdfunding if I can get the game I want and not whats trending or whats hot (FPS) and developers get to make the games they want to with input from us with reasonable community direction, Wasteland 2, The Repopulation , and Star Citizen are games I actually want to play but publishers wouldn't touch them, they said there was no market for them or didn't have faith in them enough to fund them , guess what they was wrong, not only did they raise their funding but in more ways exceeded what they originally asked for, that tells those publishers and investors they was wrong just cause its not a billion dollar IP involved like Call of Duty or Assassins Creed doesnt mean it wont make money, sometimes making a good game in the long run is better than churning out the same ol shit just to make a dollar
Since you calling their advertisement flat out lies, I would love to hear some excamples.
Ok, i play your game. Let's take the most recent released big title, Guildwars 2. Just to name a few promises.
1. Server Guesting, has been touted as the big feature multiple times over 5 years. Not in the game at release and still to this day not in the game.
2. The strict no grind philosophy they been spreading for years and reality is that the end game they call "Fractals" is probably the grindiest end game system ever invented.
In fact, ANet admitted to these and other misleading facts they have spread and are giving everyone a refund if he asks for one.
Neither are actually listed as feature during their actual promotions so other then that being "plans" they never became actual listed features, so much for false advertisements.
point 2 is debateble, then again.. everyone knew including them there is no way around a grind at end game, we can debate the magnitude of the grind but we already knew there would be one, what did you expect? Hit max lvl and blam full decked out?
But regardless both may have been discussed but neither made it to the feature listings.
Originally posted by Panthien
Originally posted by BlackcatZero
yes an I agree on something is going wrong when game companies expect $200 or $300 for a beta (it may be as simple as they ran out of money for there project and can or need help funding the project to make they're game) mmoprg cost tons to make and if it's funding they need to up frfont and say we would like to give u our product but it cost more money then we have please help and we make the choise to help or not. your saying it isn't right or we should not spend money on games or what we like and spend money on. hint I supposted Darkfall:unholy war and dislike it so I just canceled and said after this no more money. I spent money on age of wushu and have not regreed it same goes for Defiance and Neverwinter. but in the end it's my choise and anyone else that decided to suppost them.
Im curious, which games charge that kind of money just a beta?
Plenty of Kickstarter had exclusive BETA access at $100+ Levels. Currently Neverwinter MMO wants $199 for a founders pack. (to be fair there is also a mroe limited $60 package).
Neverwinter lets you apply for beta, there have been several beta key giveway's as well. So you can get garanteed access by getting a founder pack. So much for having to pay just to get into beta.
I know, we are all desperate for a really good MMORPG but if we continue to support these crappy games we will never get the industry change.
Stop buying into these payed BETAS of games promising things they can not deliver.
Stop making excuses for games with phrases like "A MMORPG is never finished", "They will fix it after release" or "They said they will add [insert promised feature here] after release". When has anything of this ever happened?
Stop believing reviews from gaming sites including this one. They live from advertisements and the will not bite the hand that feeds them. Simple fact.
Don't support want to be MMORPGs like Path of Exile or Defiance. These are not MMORPGs.
Only you can stop this by not supporting the games until they deliver what they promise. Yes, of cause, this genre of games do improve and get better over time but why throw money at them NOW when you have no way to tell if any of the features ever going to be delivered.
Why not wait until all the promised features are delivered and then buy it? I know, its crazy how much sense this makes but for some reason we are idiots (i include myself) that throw money at half assed games in the hope "They will fix it after release" because "an MMORPG is never finished" and "They said they will add [insert feature X here]".
This year will be no different than the last 10. The only thing that is changing right now is that every one of them tries to get as much money as they can before the game is actually released. A new trend that is influenced by the Kickstarter crowdfunding movement. I call it "Crowdmilking".
Bought BETA and features. Preorder to get BETA, Headstart, in game items like mounts, useless swag like badges, T-shirts or other crap.
Combine #1 bought BETAS with an NDA to maximize Profit before people can realize how shitty a game is going to be.
All the new games are designed with Microtransaction shops and F2P in mind because developers know they have a sub standard product and that we will reject it like we did the past 10 years.
They are starting Crowdfunding for Patches/Updates/Content. This is a very new trend that will ask for donations to make updates to the game or add content. Based on Kickstarter there are funding goals to be met for different features.
Maximize initial box sales no matter what. Lie, deceive or outright make shit up to get people to pay box price. This practice has been seen with a game released last holiday season. AOC started it, probably had only 30% of the features they promised at start and the BETA was nothing like the rest of the game. AOC was the ultimate bait and switch scam.
The Revolution has to start now, this year, or we will be stuck with more and more of the same money grabs and boring themeparks for decades to come.
(ps: don't take the revolution thing litterally please, this is about bad practices of gaming companies not about starting a revolution)
While I generally agree with your points, do not forget that some of the games that fall into your description some people actually enjoy. Never begrudge another person's fun. A prime example is DayZ, which fits most everything "bad" you describe, yet there are those who enjoy the game.
This is why I wait months before considering a game. I let hype die, launch issues shake out and read reactions from other players who have deeply played the game. This is also why I haven't played an MMO for over two years.
The biggest issue I can see with MMORPG's today is that they are never a complete package:
You typically get one of the following:
- great combat terrible corridor sized world
- open world with the same things everywhere
- amazing setting and diverse world with not enough diversity in anything else
- endless content with 1rst grade level story and lack of diversity
- awesome sandbox elements but no pve and full loot PVP
When will we get a game that has a great setting, diverse world, with good to great combat, a deep and interesting story, intricate skill system, deep crafting system and tons of different gear so that you dont have to look the same as someone else? (think Anarchy Online :P)
On top of that, Id like house building, farming, fishing, boat building and vehicle building as well as animal raising.
For now though, I have my sights set on The Repopulation and I agree with the OP that if you just "like" a game, not love it, and you haven't run across a game like that in a while because of the same reasons over and over, it might be time to demand a good product by only investing in worth while projects....but then...what is a worthwhile project?
Originally posted by Aerowyn 2012 was the best year for MMOs since 2004 IMHO,, had several MMOs with plenty of new ideas for the genre.. i feel 2013 with a slew of promising games coming will build on what we saw in 2012.. I feel 2013 will be the best year for MMOs ever:)
I think we live in different realities, for me 2012 was more of the same wearing a different skin or in disguise masquerading as somthing better than it was. 2013 doesn't look much better.
all about preferences.. Been gaming since the 80s I wouldn't expect everyone to enjoy the same things as me or have the same values in games... Not sure how that's a hard concept for people..
It's not a hard concept, this post was also not about that. It was about the practices these gaming companies are using right now to get as much money as possible before the game is even released. The promises made and the blatant lies about features that never make it into the final product.
Not sure how that's a hard concept for people looking at the facts and seeing that something is going horribly wrong.
what lies? i have seen many mistake or misunderstand things.. I have seen many read things on these forums and think they are facts then blame developers when its not true.. You talking about PR speak? because every MMO ever uses PR talk when promoting a game it's their job to do so as it is with any product. I have played every MMO released this past year and haven't payed any more than the box price aside from a couple bucks to gw2 for some extra bag slots and that's it. Only one I could see looking at their MMO as just a cash grab is EA but i don't follow that one at all anymore so can't really comment on that.
Also my quote was just responding to someone elses post not the OP specifically
oh also on getting money before release.. stuff like pre-ordering and collectors editions have been out forever.. now they are actually adding a lot more to those then in the past it seems.. also its all optional anyway so who cares if people buy them or not
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Good MMO's have been produced in prior years, and OP is right, this year is not looking good so far. Unfortunately we need to sit tight while the big guys (Bliizard and SOE) work on their next big MMO's and we need to be smart enough than to waste our time on these second-rate or worse MMOs that keep popping up.
Huge expectations, hardly any delivery. AoC and WAR back then, SW TOR and GW2 now.
If GW2 had a sub, it would hardly be played.
2012 was the year of the Rat: everything drowned unless they went free to play. (well except WoW and EVE and a few stranded symbolic preachers in 15% of the initial Rift servers).
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
Care to share your sources for all this research, because the sources i read say different. If you just spend 5 minutes on google you find that your statement is completely false. You can't just come here and make stuff up to fit your agenda. You are going to be called out on it, thats how forums work, buddy.
"The 'high-level thinking' skills of 14-year-olds are now on a par with those of 12-year-olds in 1976."
"Previous research by Professor Shayer has shown that 11-year-olds' grasp of concepts such as volume, density, quantity and weight appears to have declined over the last 30 years."
"The study reviewed test scores of 800 thirteen- and fourteen-year-olds and compared them with similar tests of teens from 1976, a generation ago. The results? In one test, only one in ten of the current teens tested with top scores, down from one in four twenty years ago. In another, only one in twenty reached the top score compared to one in five from the 1976 batch. Professor Michael Shayer, who lead the study, believes the educational focus on testing (rather than learning) is at least partially to blame."
Here's some more data:
The Oklahoma Council of Public Affairs commissioned a civic education poll among public school students. A surprising 77% didn't know that George Washington was the first President; couldn't name Thomas Jefferson as the author of the Declaration of Independence, and only 2.8% of the students actually passed the citizenship test. Along similar lines, the Goldwater Institute of Phoenix did the same survey and only 3.5% of students passed the civics test.
On the eve of the Iraq War, 69% of American's thought Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks; four years later, even though proof had been provided that he was not, 34% still believe he was.
18% of Americans still believe that the sun revolves around the earth, according to a Gallup poll.
According to another poll, the average American voter believes that U.S. foreign aid consumes 24% of the Federal budget, when it is only 1%.
The American Association of State Colleges and Universities report on education shows that the U.S. ranks second among all nations in the proportion of the population aged 35-64 with a college degree, but 19th in the percentage of those aged 25-34 with an associates or high school diploma, which means that for the first time, the educational attainment of young people will be lower than their parents'.
In a Newsweek poll, of U.S. citizens, 29% couldn't identify Joe Biden as the Vice President, and 44% couldn't describe the Bill of Rights.
In a 2009 survey of a number of European countries and the U.S. on international affairs, a significant majority of Europeans could identify the Taliban, and just over 50% of Americans could, despite the heavy presence of the U.S. in Afghanistan.
Researcher Kyung Hee Kim at the College of William & Mary analyzed 300,00 Torrance Creativity Test scores of children and adults in the US. Kim found creativity and IQ scores rose steadily until 1990, and were in decline thereafter, and the most serious decline occurring for the youngest children.
In 1966-67, approximately 1.4 million students who took the verbal portion of the S.A.T and a score of 700 or more was achieved by 33,000 students. In 1986-87 over 1.8 million students took the test and a score of 700 or higher was attained by fewer than 14,000.
A new global study of educational systems in major nations ranks U.S. 15 year olds 14th in the world in reading skills, 17th in science and 25th (below average) in math.
According the 2009 National Assessment of Educational Progress, 68% of public school children in the U.S. do not read proficiently by the time they finish third grade. And the U.S. News & World reported that barely 50% of students are ready for college level reading.
Of the 21 countries participating in the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, American high school seniors did better than only 2 countries--Cyprus and South Africa.
According to the National Endowment for the Arts report in 1982, 82% of college graduates read novels or poems for pleasure; two decades later only 67% did. And more than 40% of Americans under 44 did not read a single book--fiction or nonfiction--over the course of a year. The proportion of 17 year olds who read nothing (unless required by school ) has doubled between 1984-2004.
Renowned T.V. producer Jerry Bruckheimer, who has produced many successful T.V. shows, was once quoted as saying, "it is getting harder and harder to underestimate the intelligence of the American public. It now averages well below the previous 6th grade level."
...and many many more.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I think that warrants at least one link.
And I'd personally remove the word 'forward' from that last line.
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I think that warrants at least one link.
And I'd personally remove the word 'forward' from that last line.
Well IQ scores certainly move up from generation to generation, it is called the Flynn effect. In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 IQ points. However it is debatable as to what IQ score actually measures.
As to the post I have certainly noticed that younger players in general have:
less patience
less interest in problem solving in MMORPGs
a lof of experience in console games and a desire to move features from console games to MMORPGs
a desire to avoid playing low level content and move straight to MOBA style end game play
a more abusive attitude and a higher tolerance for bad language and intolerent behaviour
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
There are far far too many people that are either consumer whores, consumers who feel they have no power or outright fanboys.
Those are the people most companies target anyway.
I mean, just look at Apple, they became the largest company on the planet via fanboys and consumer whores willing to pay insane prices for slightly above average products that for the most part, are not bringing anything new over the previous iteration they overpaid for last year!
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
Im curious, which games charge that kind of money just a beta?
Ok, i play your game. Let's take the most recent released big title, Guildwars 2. Just to name a few promises.
1. Server Guesting, has been touted as the big feature multiple times over 5 years. Not in the game at release and still to this day not in the game.
2. The strict no grind philosophy they been spreading for years and reality is that the end game they call "Fractals" is probably the grindiest end game system ever invented.
In fact, ANet admitted to these and other misleading facts they have spread and are giving everyone a refund if he asks for one.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It's a free world so spammers should be able to spam here and the mods should let it go... con artists should be able to take all of your grandparent's retirement savings without consequences...yeah love that "free world" kinda of thinking.
Companies are taking advantage of the apparent desire by some gamers to feel like they're more than gamers...that they're investors in the development process, when in fact they're just gamers being separated from their money on the basis that the game MIGHT make it out of development and MIGHT not be a POS that they actually want to play...but by the time they find that out, it's too late--they already paid.
This trend started a while back with "lifetime subscriptions." The pitch is that you're not a true fan or committed enough to your beloved game unless you become a lifer. All they have to give you is a description and a bit of art with a mishmash of anti-MMORPG Big Company Establishment features to make them seem cutting-edge. Now they've just figured out a way to get you to commit and be a lifer on spec before they have anything for you to play.
Yeah...let's get rid of regulations, governments and law enforcement then no one can force you to do anything...it'd be such a better world wouldn't it?
This is just the gamer equivalent of the Nigerian tied-up funds so they need your bank account info scam. More sophisticated and more targetted but pretty dodgy.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
As long as there is no false advertising, and no fraud, i don't see why not. If some "gamers" have such desire, it is called a demand to be filled.
Personallly i think it is silly, but what is wrong for these whales to pay for what they know is coming ... a beta.
Guildwars admitted to false advertising and is giving everyone a refund without questions asked. It's the right thing to do, no question about that, but its despicable to try and get away with it first.
No they have not. Where is this from? I have never seen anything posted ANYWHERE where A.Net said this. Remember what we put on this site, open MMORPG.COM to law suits. Conjecture and utter tripe and slander comes to mind.
He is being sarcastic.
The OP has the best of intentions here but my problem with this post is the fact were not getting the same MMOs this year when finally MMOs are being developed in a different direction of the sandpark (hybrid) Archeage, The Repopulation, Wildstar, and some not so much in the hybrid direction The Elder Scrolls Online (jury is still out on this one) they are trying new things.
Slamming crowdfunding isn't the right thing to do how are they a culprit? These are indie developers without backing of major funding that want to get their game off the ground and some of them are catching the gamer's eyes . WIthout the inteference of investors and publishers telling them what to do to, appealing to lowest common denominator, dumbing it down, MMO lovers can have a game that they actually want to play for more than 1 month.
To be honest we need new directions, new ways to fund games without assholes like EA or Activison with their hands in the pie. Investors and business types who know nothing about gaming or design whatsoever, its killing the gaming industry, market studies , surveys, charts and graphs show minute information on what gamers want, so they believe they are helping by funding games that noone wants or just rehashes of the last 4 releases (Call of Duty)
Ill be happy to pay for crowdfunding if I can get the game I want and not whats trending or whats hot (FPS) and developers get to make the games they want to with input from us with reasonable community direction, Wasteland 2, The Repopulation , and Star Citizen are games I actually want to play but publishers wouldn't touch them, they said there was no market for them or didn't have faith in them enough to fund them , guess what they was wrong, not only did they raise their funding but in more ways exceeded what they originally asked for, that tells those publishers and investors they was wrong just cause its not a billion dollar IP involved like Call of Duty or Assassins Creed doesnt mean it wont make money, sometimes making a good game in the long run is better than churning out the same ol shit just to make a dollar
Neither are actually listed as feature during their actual promotions so other then that being "plans" they never became actual listed features, so much for false advertisements.
point 2 is debateble, then again.. everyone knew including them there is no way around a grind at end game, we can debate the magnitude of the grind but we already knew there would be one, what did you expect? Hit max lvl and blam full decked out?
But regardless both may have been discussed but neither made it to the feature listings.
Neverwinter lets you apply for beta, there have been several beta key giveway's as well. So you can get garanteed access by getting a founder pack. So much for having to pay just to get into beta.
While I generally agree with your points, do not forget that some of the games that fall into your description some people actually enjoy. Never begrudge another person's fun. A prime example is DayZ, which fits most everything "bad" you describe, yet there are those who enjoy the game.
This is why I wait months before considering a game. I let hype die, launch issues shake out and read reactions from other players who have deeply played the game. This is also why I haven't played an MMO for over two years.
The biggest issue I can see with MMORPG's today is that they are never a complete package:
You typically get one of the following:
- great combat terrible corridor sized world
- open world with the same things everywhere
- amazing setting and diverse world with not enough diversity in anything else
- endless content with 1rst grade level story and lack of diversity
- awesome sandbox elements but no pve and full loot PVP
When will we get a game that has a great setting, diverse world, with good to great combat, a deep and interesting story, intricate skill system, deep crafting system and tons of different gear so that you dont have to look the same as someone else? (think Anarchy Online :P)
On top of that, Id like house building, farming, fishing, boat building and vehicle building as well as animal raising.
For now though, I have my sights set on The Repopulation and I agree with the OP that if you just "like" a game, not love it, and you haven't run across a game like that in a while because of the same reasons over and over, it might be time to demand a good product by only investing in worth while projects....but then...what is a worthwhile project?
Well I played a lot more than that in 2012. But Feb 2013 has been exactly that.
what lies? i have seen many mistake or misunderstand things.. I have seen many read things on these forums and think they are facts then blame developers when its not true.. You talking about PR speak? because every MMO ever uses PR talk when promoting a game it's their job to do so as it is with any product. I have played every MMO released this past year and haven't payed any more than the box price aside from a couple bucks to gw2 for some extra bag slots and that's it. Only one I could see looking at their MMO as just a cash grab is EA but i don't follow that one at all anymore so can't really comment on that.
Also my quote was just responding to someone elses post not the OP specifically
oh also on getting money before release.. stuff like pre-ordering and collectors editions have been out forever.. now they are actually adding a lot more to those then in the past it seems.. also its all optional anyway so who cares if people buy them or not
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I compare 2012 with 2008.
Huge expectations, hardly any delivery. AoC and WAR back then, SW TOR and GW2 now.
If GW2 had a sub, it would hardly be played.
2012 was the year of the Rat: everything drowned unless they went free to play. (well except WoW and EVE and a few stranded symbolic preachers in 15% of the initial Rift servers).
The subscription market ended for any would be's.
Even this guy ended his activity: http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.
Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.
So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.
My gaming blog
To further extrapolate on this,
No patience
No problem solving skills
Raised on console gameplay
And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...
You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".
The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Care to share your sources for all this research, because the sources i read say different. If you just spend 5 minutes on google you find that your statement is completely false. You can't just come here and make stuff up to fit your agenda. You are going to be called out on it, thats how forums work, buddy.
"The 'high-level thinking' skills of 14-year-olds are now on a par with those of 12-year-olds in 1976."
"Previous research by Professor Shayer has shown that 11-year-olds' grasp of concepts such as volume, density, quantity and weight appears to have declined over the last 30 years."
"The study reviewed test scores of 800 thirteen- and fourteen-year-olds and compared them with similar tests of teens from 1976, a generation ago. The results? In one test, only one in ten of the current teens tested with top scores, down from one in four twenty years ago. In another, only one in twenty reached the top score compared to one in five from the 1976 batch. Professor Michael Shayer, who lead the study, believes the educational focus on testing (rather than learning) is at least partially to blame."
Here's some more data:
...and many many more.
I think that warrants at least one link.
And I'd personally remove the word 'forward' from that last line.
Well IQ scores certainly move up from generation to generation, it is called the Flynn effect. In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 IQ points. However it is debatable as to what IQ score actually measures.
As to the post I have certainly noticed that younger players in general have:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/15/research-suggests-humans-are-evolving-to-be-dumber/
Just sayin...
So true....sadly.
always knew this is where we were headed :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8rhIZJAdd0
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg