Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
I'll chime in with my 2 cents, it's not even worth the risk vs reward, even if you manage to keep griefers at bay while you do whatever it is you are doing it can all be undone in 10 minutes by some dude who gets his jollies off screwing with other people.
Complete digital freedom comes at too high of a cost for most games to do anything with it.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
I'll chime in with my 2 cents, it's not even worth the risk vs reward, even if you manage to keep griefers at bay while you do whatever it is you are doing it can all be undone in 10 minutes by some dude who gets his jollies off screwing with other people.
Complete digital freedom comes at too high of a cost for most games to do anything with it.
We cant make assumptions like that without knowing the details of the game.
Lets say it takes 1 day to build 1 day to destory... would you still have the same outlook?
I'll chime in with my 2 cents, it's not even worth the risk vs reward, even if you manage to keep griefers at bay while you do whatever it is you are doing it can all be undone in 10 minutes by some dude who gets his jollies off screwing with other people.
Complete digital freedom comes at too high of a cost for most games to do anything with it.
This is a truth. Look at the thread complaining about chat in TERA currently running on this forum. It says alot about how people will react in a game like this and that is F2P chat - I hate to see what a full freedom game would be. It would be like the Kubrick film - A Clockwork Orange.
I'll chime in with my 2 cents, it's not even worth the risk vs reward, even if you manage to keep griefers at bay while you do whatever it is you are doing it can all be undone in 10 minutes by some dude who gets his jollies off screwing with other people.
Complete digital freedom comes at too high of a cost for most games to do anything with it.
We cant make assumptions like that without knowing the details of the game.
Lets say it takes 1 day to build 1 day to destory... would you still have the same outlook?
10 min, one hour, one day .. you stil have to worry about others tearing it down. Why even play such a game when there are alternatives?
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
What part of experience are you not getting. We've played games like this, games that let you (or conversely NPC's) destroy, We've played games where players can run around and pk at will.
It's not a case of we are imagining it happening, it's happened, we've been there done that and seen that. Nothing in the OP's post talks about ways to discourage, minimize or eliminate this. In fact he openly talks about doing it.
Unless something is done to reduce/mitigate this, the same result will occur.
How many times do you have to touch a hot stove before you realize it's hot. While the saying that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is in many cases are garbage statement (because often things do change) in this case it's true. The mmo community is the same (or worse depending on your pov), the game the op presented does not discourage this - so once again if the elements are the same you will get the same result.
And your statement has nothing to do with defeat, which was the question.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
Because history is a revolving door of repetition wrapped up in a new shiny package.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
Because history is a revolving door of repetition wrapped up in a new shiny package.
More and more we get a darker view into the future that the Milennials and their moment-to-moment socialnetwork-tethered lives have in store for us. A generation that acknowledges nothing other than what has been typed on the internet in the past fifteen minutes.
By 2030, the words 'research' and 'history' will be considered divisive, if not completely offensive.
/tangentiallyrelatedrant
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wurm *has* PVP if it's your choice (-> Epic Server). Though from what they say PVP is not exactly where wurm is shining (combat in wurm is pretty basic to say it friendly). But playing on Epic shouldn't be so grindy, level up is faster there.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
I think it will happen this way because of the other group of consistent posts that come up when FFA PvP is discussed, those that chortle maniacly about how they are going to slaughter the "carebears" and how wonderfull it will be to grief people.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
I think it will happen this way because of the other group of consistent posts that come up when FFA PvP is discussed, those that chortle maniacly about how they are going to slaughter the "carebears" and how wonderfull it will be to grief people.
With no rules, you will always get people who will do this sort of playing style. Allods Online was like that after lvl 30, since you had to quest in zones that can have PvP. Allods did have flag on and off function but one could turn on the flag of the opponent if they knew how - so griefing was immense. Same with building - why build if some goof, who gets his jollies out of stomping on someone else, comes in and destroys things? This game won't make it past the first month w/o any rules.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
What part of experience are you not getting. We've played games like this, games that let you (or conversely NPC's) destroy, We've played games where players can run around and pk at will.
It's not a case of we are imagining it happening, it's happened, we've been there done that and seen that. Nothing in the OP's post talks about ways to discourage, minimize or eliminate this. In fact he openly talks about doing it.
Unless something is done to reduce/mitigate this, the same result will occur.
How many times do you have to touch a hot stove before you realize it's hot. While the saying that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is in many cases are garbage statement (because often things do change) in this case it's true. The mmo community is the same (or worse depending on your pov), the game the op presented does not discourage this - so once again if the elements are the same you will get the same result.
And your statement has nothing to do with defeat, which was the question.
Sorry for the late reply (im at work)
Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.
Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.
Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.
Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.
Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.
True, this fact must be considered.
However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.
No not from fear, from experience. We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.
How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.
Once again, experience. There is no win or defeat. I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.
You can't lose a battle you were never in.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
What part of experience are you not getting. We've played games like this, games that let you (or conversely NPC's) destroy, We've played games where players can run around and pk at will.
It's not a case of we are imagining it happening, it's happened, we've been there done that and seen that. Nothing in the OP's post talks about ways to discourage, minimize or eliminate this. In fact he openly talks about doing it.
Unless something is done to reduce/mitigate this, the same result will occur.
How many times do you have to touch a hot stove before you realize it's hot. While the saying that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is in many cases are garbage statement (because often things do change) in this case it's true. The mmo community is the same (or worse depending on your pov), the game the op presented does not discourage this - so once again if the elements are the same you will get the same result.
And your statement has nothing to do with defeat, which was the question.
Sorry for the late reply (im at work)
Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.
Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.
Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.
In your example the population is different. Different school, possibly different city, different county, different community, different attitudes.
This wouldn't be different. It is the same community (as the games are played over the net on a global level), the same people and thus the same result.
Your idea if defeat is different than my idea of defeat. If there is no fight there is no defeat. I refuse to engage in the fight. That isn't defeat, that recognizing reality and the need to have some rules.
edit -games where my creations were destroyed and/or rampant griefing: Horizons - early game npcs would destroy towns, fun at first, got annoying very quickly.
EQ and darkfall. Admittedly not for long, but it doesn't take long to realize I don't like being harassed. Even if it was a tiny minority that did it, they did it all the time drowning out all the other players.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.
Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.
Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.
The question is why should one waste their time when there is a chance ... even a small one ... that there will be griefing.
Using your analogy, why should i choose a school with a chance of some bullies, when there are plenty of schools when bullying is not possible because the rule of physics is changed so that none of them can touch you in the main hall?
This kind of reminds me of Shadowbane and would probably run into the same problem that Shadowbane had or did when I played at release for around year or so.
The griefing wasn't as bad as people said it would be or made it out to be. Guilds formed for protection and territory. Then came alliances for the same reason... Then it ultimately came down to, on ever single server I played, the MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION vs. THE OTHER MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION or/ vs. The Coalition of the Very, Very Numerous, but Significantly Smaller Guilds Who Don't Want to Surrender.
Whoever won griefed and chased the loser off the server.
Then the cycle started again when drama caused the winner(s) to fracture... only this time with half the server population having left.
Any thing I build or make..can be looted destroyed by douchebags...hmm sounds fun {/sarcasm off}
I believe I shall pass.
Pretty much this, a game where anything another player can build or make can be looted and destroyed in less time than it took to build or make really only appeals to those that want to rape, pillage and burn all day and not to those who like to build and make.
The consequence of this is that the bandits drive the citizens out of the game and are left ganking each other until they get bored and leave in search of a game where they can gank "noobs and carebears".
Comments
I'll chime in with my 2 cents, it's not even worth the risk vs reward, even if you manage to keep griefers at bay while you do whatever it is you are doing it can all be undone in 10 minutes by some dude who gets his jollies off screwing with other people.
Complete digital freedom comes at too high of a cost for most games to do anything with it.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Thats my point.
Then why would you say I'm admitting defeat. I play these games for enjoyment and relaxation. I build something, someone destroys it, I build it again, someone destroys it. I could keep on fighting, keep on building but the purpose of the game is entertainment and it is no longer entertaining.
Same with being a policman. I want to enjoy the game not continually rebuild things or protect others. The same reasoning applies to raids and repeated dungeons - repetition gets boring which defeats the purpose of the game.
We cant make assumptions like that without knowing the details of the game.
Lets say it takes 1 day to build 1 day to destory... would you still have the same outlook?
This is a truth. Look at the thread complaining about chat in TERA currently running on this forum. It says alot about how people will react in a game like this and that is F2P chat - I hate to see what a full freedom game would be. It would be like the Kubrick film - A Clockwork Orange.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
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10 min, one hour, one day .. you stil have to worry about others tearing it down. Why even play such a game when there are alternatives?
And players build stuff is mostly crap anyway.
The reason why?
Whenever Open world PvP, City building/destruction and permadeath is mention on these boards. I see nothing but "No, I will not play this game because I believe the worst possible senario will happen to me". Zod personally would never think this way. I understand that not all games are for everybody.. but I hope you can get my point ...
Why do people think this way? If if happened in the past what makes you think it will happen this time?
What part of experience are you not getting. We've played games like this, games that let you (or conversely NPC's) destroy, We've played games where players can run around and pk at will.
It's not a case of we are imagining it happening, it's happened, we've been there done that and seen that. Nothing in the OP's post talks about ways to discourage, minimize or eliminate this. In fact he openly talks about doing it.
Unless something is done to reduce/mitigate this, the same result will occur.
How many times do you have to touch a hot stove before you realize it's hot. While the saying that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is in many cases are garbage statement (because often things do change) in this case it's true. The mmo community is the same (or worse depending on your pov), the game the op presented does not discourage this - so once again if the elements are the same you will get the same result.
And your statement has nothing to do with defeat, which was the question.
Because history is a revolving door of repetition wrapped up in a new shiny package.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
More and more we get a darker view into the future that the Milennials and their moment-to-moment socialnetwork-tethered lives have in store for us. A generation that acknowledges nothing other than what has been typed on the internet in the past fifteen minutes.
By 2030, the words 'research' and 'history' will be considered divisive, if not completely offensive.
/tangentiallyrelatedrant
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes. History is the best signal for the future.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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I think it will happen this way because of the other group of consistent posts that come up when FFA PvP is discussed, those that chortle maniacly about how they are going to slaughter the "carebears" and how wonderfull it will be to grief people.
With no rules, you will always get people who will do this sort of playing style. Allods Online was like that after lvl 30, since you had to quest in zones that can have PvP. Allods did have flag on and off function but one could turn on the flag of the opponent if they knew how - so griefing was immense. Same with building - why build if some goof, who gets his jollies out of stomping on someone else, comes in and destroys things? This game won't make it past the first month w/o any rules.
Sorry for the late reply (im at work)
Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.
Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.
Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.
In your example the population is different. Different school, possibly different city, different county, different community, different attitudes.
This wouldn't be different. It is the same community (as the games are played over the net on a global level), the same people and thus the same result.
Your idea if defeat is different than my idea of defeat. If there is no fight there is no defeat. I refuse to engage in the fight. That isn't defeat, that recognizing reality and the need to have some rules.
edit -games where my creations were destroyed and/or rampant griefing: Horizons - early game npcs would destroy towns, fun at first, got annoying very quickly.
EQ and darkfall. Admittedly not for long, but it doesn't take long to realize I don't like being harassed. Even if it was a tiny minority that did it, they did it all the time drowning out all the other players.
The question is why should one waste their time when there is a chance ... even a small one ... that there will be griefing.
Using your analogy, why should i choose a school with a chance of some bullies, when there are plenty of schools when bullying is not possible because the rule of physics is changed so that none of them can touch you in the main hall?
Any thing I build or make..can be looted destroyed by douchebags...hmm sounds fun {/sarcasm off}
I believe I shall pass.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
This kind of reminds me of Shadowbane and would probably run into the same problem that Shadowbane had or did when I played at release for around year or so.
The griefing wasn't as bad as people said it would be or made it out to be. Guilds formed for protection and territory. Then came alliances for the same reason... Then it ultimately came down to, on ever single server I played, the MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION vs. THE OTHER MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION or/ vs. The Coalition of the Very, Very Numerous, but Significantly Smaller Guilds Who Don't Want to Surrender.
Whoever won griefed and chased the loser off the server.
Then the cycle started again when drama caused the winner(s) to fracture... only this time with half the server population having left.
Pretty much this, a game where anything another player can build or make can be looted and destroyed in less time than it took to build or make really only appeals to those that want to rape, pillage and burn all day and not to those who like to build and make.
The consequence of this is that the bandits drive the citizens out of the game and are left ganking each other until they get bored and leave in search of a game where they can gank "noobs and carebears".