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If a purely player-driven MMO were to come out, would you play it?

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  • DeVoDeVoDeVoDeVo Outhere, NCPosts: 94Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass

     

    EDIT:  I see a few posters in this thread keep bringing up the point about griefers, but honestly, the non griefers tend to band together to police the griefers in open ended games.

    I know, I was part of one of these groups when I first started EVE.  The area that I was living in had one really good NPC mission agent that paid really well when you did missions for him, but the ptoblem was that it was in a low security area.  Pirates figured out that we were running missions there so they formed together in a corporation to start hunting us and killing us in our missions.

    Well, we put our own intelligence channel together, and only let known missions runners into it.  Then, when the pirates would show up, we would all jump in a PVP ship and band together to push them out of our system.  We called ourselves something like the Molden Heath Defense Force, and a lot of us ended up quitting the carebear scene and made pirate hunting our sole profession.  I know.  I was the co-CEO of the first pirate hunting corp.

    Players WILL police players if you give them the tools to do so.  In our case it was as simple as being able to form our own chat channel where we could share intel on where they were and what they were doing.

     

    You had an area of space that was safe enough to allow  the coordination and formation  of a defense force.  EVE could not exist without Highsec. 

    What the OP is proposing is a world without a safety net.   In other words, completely remove the police force in Highsec and then watch what happens.

    The only police force in such a world would be run by the griefer oligarchy that eventually takes over.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    player driven mmo.... mmmh, i would play it for free. If we (the players) are going to drive the game i dont see a reason to pay other than perhaps the box, but if its pvp focused then not a chance.

     

    I hear bandwidth, servers, development, support are all provided by magical faries who work for free.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    Players policing griefers doesn't really work in the long run.  It requires people to do it constantly and what happens is people want to play the rest of the game as well.  So you have a constant turnover of people dedicating themselves as "police" and only a few people willing to do it for long periods or organize finding new people.  Eventually those people leave or want to do other parts of the game as well.

    In the long run, there is no consistent police force and the griefers get to run amok.

    The same situation exists with destroying buildings/property people have built.  People want to play the rest of the game, after rebuilding them 2, 3, 4... times people get tired of doing that.  After defending their building 2, 3, 4... times people get tired of doing that.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    Players policing griefers doesn't really work in the long run.  It requires people to do it constantly and what happens is people want to play the rest of the game as well. 

    Well then if nothing else it would serve as a valuable social education tool for libertarians and hippies.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    player driven mmo.... mmmh, i would play it for free. If we (the players) are going to drive the game i dont see a reason to pay other than perhaps the box, but if its pvp focused then not a chance.

     

    I hear bandwidth, servers, development, support are all provided by magical faries who work for free.

    No. They are provided by whales who loves to subsidize your gaming.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

  • AeonbladesAeonblades Home, GAPosts: 2,083Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

    Amen, agreed!

    Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
    Have played: You name it
    If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,670Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

    Amen, agreed!

    ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

    What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

    it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

    this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

    end result for you: world looks good.

    end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

    Win-Win.

    That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

    The two problems with that are

    there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

    there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

     

    People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

    Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,670Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torik

    Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

    It's both hilarious and sad that you just described one of the most likely outcomes. :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIPosts: 2,567Member
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

    What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

    it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

    this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

    end result for you: world looks good.

    end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

    Win-Win.

    That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

    The two problems with that are

    there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

    there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

     

    People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

    Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

    In reading this tread, one quote comes to mind. It is from movie Groundhog Day, 'People are morons'. A game like this will end up being a griefers - idiot paradise because the only people who will enjoy the game are people that get pleasure out of giving others problems.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neverdyne

    The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

    you mean a lá shadowbane? who save for 4 towns npcs made everything else was player made? that will depends, if it would be like the last days of SB I think I pass, if you was a new player you could do nothing and most guild recruiting would want you to play x hours a day and be willing to roll several chars to fit they need don't think so

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
    image

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member
    Called Xsyon but no one wanted to play it.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

    Amen, agreed!

    ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

    I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

    I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

    The same applies to game design.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,670Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

    Amen, agreed!

    ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

    I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

    I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

    The same applies to game design.

    It saddens me that after all this time you'd think I was in any way suggesting that people who held that contention were anything less than batshit crazy. image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    As nice as it would be, sadly we have quite a terrible array of players out there that would ruin the experience and just destroy such a world working out if it was completely 'player driven' as mentioned. Minecraft is probably as close to it as you get yet having a 'vanilla' world is basically asking for it to be griefed and destroyed. It forces servers to put on things liek grief protection and all which makes it less 'player-driven' so to speak since it is setting up more rules. 

     

    Basically, no. Unfortunately the playerbase is just untrustworthy and would basically ruin the world.

  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Torik
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by jazz.be

    I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

    What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

    it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

    this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

    end result for you: world looks good.

    end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

    Win-Win.

    That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

    The two problems with that are

    there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

    there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

     

    People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

    Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

    In reading this tread, one quote comes to mind. It is from movie Groundhog Day, 'People are morons'. A game like this will end up being a griefers - idiot paradise because the only people who will enjoy the game are people that get pleasure out of giving others problems.

    I don't think you need a movie to come up with that quote. :-)

    The problem is that "people" consist of many inviduals. And the majority turns people into morons.

    Even if delivering quality content is possible.

    You may have one individual who does positive things, but it will all fade away in the chaotic crap created by those who are not able to create positive content.

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

    image

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Neverdyne

    The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

    I tried Wurm but couldn't get into it because of the UI, I wanted to like it but couldn't. 

    If someone were to make Wurm with a more intuitive UI I would give it a real shot.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Aeonblades
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

    Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

    Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

    Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

    LOL ..

    And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

    Amen, agreed!

    ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

    I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

    I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

    The same applies to game design.

    It saddens me that after all this time you'd think I was in any way suggesting that people who held that contention were anything less than batshit crazy. image

    LOL .. i miss-read you. Sorry .. i apologize. It is batshit crazy.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,670Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

    Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • General_Dru-ZodGeneral_Dru-Zod Unknown, CAPosts: 136Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

    Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

     

    True, this fact must be considered.

    However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

    image

  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member
    No.

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
    Join me on Raptr Steam Facebook Twitter Gameverse

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
    A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

    Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

     

    True, this fact must be considered.

    However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

     No not from fear, from experience.  We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation.  Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.

     

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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