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Definitely another bad year for MMORPGs.

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  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    holy shit, I just looked at cyberpunk 2077 trailer.

    Thanks OP, didnt know about this.

    image

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    holy shit, I just looked at cyberpunk 2077 trailer.

    Thanks OP, didnt know about this.

    You are welcome. I am hoping for this one, if its as dark and mature as the original pen and paper we could ahve a winner. Time will tell.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by beej1986
     

    Remember when companies paid players to beta test games?

    Riiight you dont seem to understand what being a profesional game tester is actually about. BETA testing is not the same thing. A game tester doesnt play games, he plays husks that one day will become games. Actually no he doesnt even "play" them he endevours to break them, then repeat the same process numerous times, writing reports on his outcome. No one has ever paid for "testing" a game in "BETA" as mmo gamers know the terms...Gamers go into a beta and want to play, fuck feedback and constructive criticism.

     

  • MarirranyaMarirranya Ortario, OHPosts: 154Member

    you never know, it might actually be a good year for MMORPGs :3

    we just have to wait and see, its only been 1month and a few weeks since the year started we dont have to be pessimistic about things :3

    There are people who play games and then there are gamers.

    http://alzplz.blogspot.com

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,933Member Uncommon

    You make it sounds like MMO used to release in good shape but that the quality have dropped the last few years...

    MMOs have always been crappy at release, only 2 exceptions I seen was LOTRO (which had very little content) and Guildwars (which was a CORPG), the rest all been terrible (and this includes M59, EQ, Wow and the rest).

    As for this year being bad, it seems pretty same as any other year. A few games releasing, one or 2 seems very promising.

    But I agree that people should check up the games a lot better before buying any, and in many cases wait 6-12 months until a game is playworthy.

  • shadeviceshadevice memphis, TNPosts: 68Member

    So uh, While I enjoy your enthusiasm OP and also want a change...theres a reason companies pay millions for advertising, it works. So companies will still spoon feed theme park mmorpgs to the masses and they will swallow graciously.

    But there is good news. Theres risk takers out there like Camelot unchained. Perhaps the change is coming. 

    Also it feels like theme park MMORPG trend has peaked and stalled. Even those casuals, those green, new born MMORPG babies are wanting something different.

     

  • Matticus75Matticus75 Posts: 396Member Uncommon

    I totaly agree with the OP, but it seems that most of the people responding are exhibiting nothing more than apathy and belief in the uselessness of a unified agreement to anything.

    In a nutshell most people nowdays  dont care what any of you believe in and only care about what they believe in

    There is really no common ground other than unified stupity.....So in the end people want the status quo, they love it! Their actions show it......might as well drop it

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 844Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Matticus75

    I totaly agree with the OP, but it seems that most of the people responding are exhibiting nothing more than apathy and belief in the uselessness of a unified agreement to anything.

    In a nutshell most people nowdays  dont care what any of you believe in and only care about what they believe in

    There is really no common ground other than unified stupity.....So in the end people want the status quo, they love it! Their actions show it......might as well drop it

    ROFLMAO how many MMORPG players are there at the moment 10milliion? 12million? more?

    How many are going to read this thread?  300?  500?  maybe 10,000?  Even if we all agreed that doing what the OP suggests is the right thing and did it  no one else would notice.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,898Member Uncommon

    As a person who pretty much practices what the Op is preaching about, I only buy games I've tried and found enough reediming quality in to warrant a purchase. I can count the MMO's I've purchased on one hand. DAOC, SWG, AOC and SWTOR. The first too had what I wanted from a game-play perspective the last two had my guild (from SWG) playing and a presentation I enjoyed while it lasted. I can still pick up AOC and have some fun for free, which is a plus. TOR I am playing through free to see the class stories I missed at the moment. SWG was the only MMO I purchased blindly at release, yet turned out to be one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time.

    The thing that people like the OP need to understand is, everyone wants something different from the games they play. Meaning a game can look like a total rip to one person, yet at the same time it could also be anothers dream come true. This is basically true for all things, games are no exception. A person who likes current MMO's is not living in a dream world as the OP suggested earlier in this thread. That says to me the OP does not understand the first line of this paragraph. It seems the OP doesn't understand his criteria for a purchasable game is not universal and will never be. I base that on the things I'm reading him write. If I'm wrong I apologize, all I can suggest is that you catch more flies with honey.

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    2012 was the best year for MMOs since 2004 IMHO,, had several MMOs with plenty of new ideas for the genre.. i feel 2013 with a slew of promising games coming  will build on what we saw in 2012.. I feel 2013 will be the best year for MMOs ever:)

    I agree.  My second favorite MMO of all time released in 2012.  The way I saw it, last year opened some eyes to how things could be done differently, and I think that scares people.  This year I'm looking forward to Wildstar, but I'm unsure about the rest so far.  But this revolution speech is a little melodramatic.

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member

    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Originally posted by Matticus75

    I totaly agree with the OP, but it seems that most of the people responding are exhibiting nothing more than apathy and belief in the uselessness of a unified agreement to anything.

    In a nutshell most people nowdays  dont care what any of you believe in and only care about what they believe in

    There is really no common ground other than unified stupity.....So in the end people want the status quo, they love it! Their actions show it......might as well drop it

    ROFLMAO how many MMORPG players are there at the moment 10milliion? 12million? more?

    How many are going to read this thread?  300?  500?  maybe 10,000?  Even if we all agreed that doing what the OP suggests is the right thing and did it  no one else would notice.

    That is a silly argument and you know it, why are you even here if the few users here make no difference. Why are companies advertising here if its so insignificant. Why do we even have this site if what you say is true?

    With an attitude like that there will never be change. It always starts with very few people, you might want to read up on your history and politics.

    Originally posted by Distopia

    As a person who pretty much practices what the Op is preaching about, I only buy games I've tried and found enough reediming quality in to warrant a purchase. I can count the MMO's I've purchased on one hand. DAOC, SWG, AOC and SWTOR. The first too had what I wanted from a game-play perspective the last two had my guild (from SWG) playing and a presentation I enjoyed while it lasted. I can still pick up AOC and have some fun for free, which is a plus. TOR I am playing through free to see the class stories I missed at the moment. SWG was the only MMO I purchased blindly at release, yet turned out to be one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time.

    The thing that people like the OP need to understand is, everyone wants something different from the games they play. Meaning a game can look like a total rip to one person, yet at the same time it could also be anothers dream come true. This is basically true for all things, games are no exception. A person who likes current MMO's is not living in a dream world as the OP suggested earlier in this thread. That says to me the OP does not understand the first line of this paragraph. It seems the OP doesn't understand his criteria for a purchasable game is not universal and will never be. I base that on the things I'm reading him write. If I'm wrong I apologize, all I can suggest is that you catch more flies with honey.

    I know that there is no perfect MMO, diversity is what we need. New ideas and systems that change the market, there are enough players that multiple mmos can be supported but what we get is the same old crap, a hodgepodge of tried and true formulas that never change. If someone really thinks that we had any sort of innovation or that we had decent mmo releases in 2012 then you are indeed living in a dreamworld.

    Originally posted by Marirranya

    you never know, it might actually be a good year for MMORPGs :3

    we just have to wait and see, its only been 1month and a few weeks since the year started we dont have to be pessimistic about things :3

    I am optimistic about many announced games. What i was saying, if you read my post, is that currently the companies try to squeeze out every last bit of money before they release their unfinished products and that people should wait and see how a game turns out before blindly throwing money at it.

    This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism, its about common sense.

    Originally posted by Rzep

    Originally posted by beej1986
     

    Remember when companies paid players to beta test games?

    Riiight you dont seem to understand what being a profesional game tester is actually about. BETA testing is not the same thing. A game tester doesnt play games, he plays husks that one day will become games. Actually no he doesnt even "play" them he endevours to break them, then repeat the same process numerous times, writing reports on his outcome. No one has ever paid for "testing" a game in "BETA" as mmo gamers know the terms...Gamers go into a beta and want to play, fuck feedback and constructive criticism.

    So are you a professional game tester? It seems you know a lot about it, why don't you enlighten us about what BETA actually is and tell us more about the company you work for and the games you currently testing or the ones you tested so far.

    I am looking forward to your post.

     

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bossalinie
    Originally posted by beej1986
     

    Remember when companies paid players to beta test games?

    I also remember walking to school barefoot in the snow...uphill even...

    this guy...so trendy.

    image

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01

    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Originally posted by Matticus75

    I totaly agree with the OP, but it seems that most of the people responding are exhibiting nothing more than apathy and belief in the uselessness of a unified agreement to anything.

    In a nutshell most people nowdays  dont care what any of you believe in and only care about what they believe in

    There is really no common ground other than unified stupity.....So in the end people want the status quo, they love it! Their actions show it......might as well drop it

    ROFLMAO how many MMORPG players are there at the moment 10milliion? 12million? more?

    How many are going to read this thread?  300?  500?  maybe 10,000?  Even if we all agreed that doing what the OP suggests is the right thing and did it  no one else would notice.

    That is a silly argument and you know it, why are you even here if the few users here make no difference. Why are companies advertising here if its so insignificant. Why do we even have this site if what you say is true?

    With an attitude like that there will never be change. It always starts with very few people, you might want to read up on your history and politics.

    Originally posted by Distopia

    As a person who pretty much practices what the Op is preaching about, I only buy games I've tried and found enough reediming quality in to warrant a purchase. I can count the MMO's I've purchased on one hand. DAOC, SWG, AOC and SWTOR. The first too had what I wanted from a game-play perspective the last two had my guild (from SWG) playing and a presentation I enjoyed while it lasted. I can still pick up AOC and have some fun for free, which is a plus. TOR I am playing through free to see the class stories I missed at the moment. SWG was the only MMO I purchased blindly at release, yet turned out to be one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time.

    The thing that people like the OP need to understand is, everyone wants something different from the games they play. Meaning a game can look like a total rip to one person, yet at the same time it could also be anothers dream come true. This is basically true for all things, games are no exception. A person who likes current MMO's is not living in a dream world as the OP suggested earlier in this thread. That says to me the OP does not understand the first line of this paragraph. It seems the OP doesn't understand his criteria for a purchasable game is not universal and will never be. I base that on the things I'm reading him write. If I'm wrong I apologize, all I can suggest is that you catch more flies with honey.

    I know that there is no perfect MMO, diversity is what we need. New ideas and systems that change the market, there are enough players that multiple mmos can be supported but what we get is the same old crap, a hodgepodge of tried and true formulas that never change. If someone really thinks that we had any sort of innovation or that we had decent mmo releases in 2012 then you are indeed living in a dreamworld.

    Originally posted by Marirranya

    you never know, it might actually be a good year for MMORPGs :3

    we just have to wait and see, its only been 1month and a few weeks since the year started we dont have to be pessimistic about things :3

    I am optimistic about many announced games. What i was saying, if you read my post, is that currently the companies try to squeeze out every last bit of money before they release their unfinished products and that people should wait and see how a game turns out before blindly throwing money at it.

    This has nothing to do with optimism or pessimism, its about common sense.

    Originally posted by Rzep

    Originally posted by beej1986
     

    Remember when companies paid players to beta test games?

    Riiight you dont seem to understand what being a profesional game tester is actually about. BETA testing is not the same thing. A game tester doesnt play games, he plays husks that one day will become games. Actually no he doesnt even "play" them he endevours to break them, then repeat the same process numerous times, writing reports on his outcome. No one has ever paid for "testing" a game in "BETA" as mmo gamers know the terms...Gamers go into a beta and want to play, fuck feedback and constructive criticism.

    So are you a professional game tester? It seems you know a lot about it, why don't you enlighten us about what BETA actually is and tell us more about the company you work for and the games you currently testing or the ones you tested so far.

    I am looking forward to your post.

     

    I am a game tester. Sorry but I can't talk about anything I have tested or companies I work for, its a contractual agreement. Ive tested big games for both PC and consoles (a hint may not be too much, one of the things I was involved in is often called GoW), though it seems soon Ill have to deal with mobile games *shudder*. The BETA's you see everywhere these days, even on consoles are nothing more than clever marketing. They aim to make you think that the company cares and that you are involved in the game creation process (this is a big thing, a ton of gamers have unrealised dreams of making games). Thats the worst case, the BETA is just promotional the game development continues not caring for the feedback. The best case is that the BETA is used to test how a game performs on various configurations (PC) and to batter the games servers to see how they cope prior to release. Ive seen games in the last few years that allowed people to come in and play an ALPHA, except the term was so missused it was comical. A game in real Alpha is a broken, often unplayable mess. Its nothing that any company would want a gamer to try.

    Now a moment to talk about the said gamer. He is very susceptible to advertising and previews and teasers. That is why companies are very happy to put an ALPHABeta tag on screenshots or videos. It gives them the option to say "Oh you dont like it? Dont worry its only an ALPHA". The gullible public unfortunately swollows it up. There is also the problem that the majority of gamers are pretty much useless when it comes to Alpha or Beta testing anything (thats why companies dont really release games in this stage into the wild, unless its some indie game *cough Dawntide cough*). Most gamers never give any feedback during Closed or Open Beta tests of mmos for example. Hell most gamers dont even care enough to send in crash reports. Without a proper bug report people like me can't do shit. You say that the game crashes at the login screen? Too bad, that information is uselss to me.

    Its all pretty obvious stuff. How often have you seen an mmo pushed back because of a Closed or Open Beta? Almost never, because it means very little in the end. Maybe if gamers entering these Betas would actually start giving feedback, constructive criticism, crash reports then companies would not have to hire an army of testers to try and break their games.

    As it stands most devs have some testers on hand, as well as the testing teams that the Publisher is in charge with. In addition to that most games in addition to that, outsource the testing to mutliple companies that specialize in that sort of work. This all goes on before the game is even announced for a closed beta.

    Im not too good with long posts. I hope that is a decent answer. To describe what I do in short:

    Get game husk=>play until a bug is found=> describe the bug in detail=> go back and try over and over again to recreate the bug=>when the bug is fully understood, every stage neccessary for it to happen is known and reliable, write a report=>send it to the dev team in hopes that they give a fuck=> continue and repeat until for example the next day when a new build is in from the devs=> try to recreate the bug from yesterday and hope to all fuck that its not there

    The most frustrating thing is that there are many levels of bugs, some important and some not so much. So there are bugs that you write up that you feel wont be fixed. Yet you have to do it. Its also terrible to read about a game having problems post release which you knew were there but were not dealt with because of lack of time or because they were too insignificant. A small consolation is that in the end people hate on the devs not testers like me=) I remember a friend who was basically tearing his hair out one day because from a long list of bugs he had found and submitted and resubmitted only I think 2 were actually fixed in the weeks after submitting. Thats 2 out of 200+. To be frank this is a shit job that can pay well but may lead you to seek help of a psychologist.

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,942Member Uncommon

    Half done mmos are not my problem, But crap design is. 

    Dungeon finders, fast leveling easy mode, and now were getting Mega Servers from Elder Scrolls Online,where every time you log in your on a different copy,,,,,,,,,,This will kill community when you have to zone to find friends, and all others are passer byes.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Now im actually looking forward to a least a few games this year or at least beta for some..

     

    The Repopulation im sure will get released this year and im really looking forward to it. I have not paid for beta access tho I believe that was an option or still is. I am done beta testing games for a bit as I tend to actually test the hell out of them and then when the games come to release I cant be bothered to do it all again.

     

    Other games im looking forward to that we migth see somthing of this year are Archeage and EQnext I cant think of anything else off the top of my head.

     

    I certainly wont be buying any crappy themepark clones or heavy instanced games.. I want my MMORPG to be an MMORPG..

  • aleosaleos na, INPosts: 1,863Member Uncommon

    This thread wasn't the same.

    It offered a different perspective and a new approach as to why todays MMORPG's arent good.

    image

     

     

     

     

     

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,076Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Half done mmos are not my problem, But crap design is. 

    Dungeon finders, fast leveling easy mode, and now were getting Mega Servers from Elder Scrolls Online,where every time you log in your on a different copy,,,,,,,,,,This will kill community when you have to zone to find friends, and all others are passer byes.

    You know, I've seen this argument before and I just dont buy it.  Most people just spam whatever city chat with LFG to get groups, that doesnt build a community.  There are a few things that I see seperated the "social" mmos from today's:

     

    1) lack of downtime, do you want to actually play the game, mash buttons and kill things? or do you want to chat with people?  Most people are to caught up in playing the game to socialize.  You need to force people to stop killing things so that they do chat with people to pass the time.

     

    2) AH, sad, but you got to get rid of it, you need people trading and bartering in chat to help foster the community.

     

    3) player interdependancy.  Different classes can do different things well, and just not combat.  I remember selling buffs back in AO so people could equip better gear, I remember selling tradeskills, because taking crafting skills took away from combat skills, you couldnt have a character good with both.  Wanted a new high level weapon, better hope that you have a high level crafter friended so you can tell when he's on, because there arent that many since most people like to kill stuff.

     

    you need to make, FORCE players to need each other and interact on a more meaningful level that looking for a dungeon group.  Players by and large take the path of least resistance, and usually that is doing everything by themselves, you need to make it so they cant.  Players will generally not form game wide communities generally without being forced to.  Leveling, I would forgive being decent for everyone, and any one class having a harder time just promotes artificial scarcity and makes players of those classes entitled jerks alot of the time. 

     

    Of course this kind of game would be niche, so it needs to have a niche game budget, and not a $ 60+ million AAA budget, you just wont get that return.

     

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,548Member Uncommon
    I was pretty much doing what the OP talks about anyway.  I don't throw my money away.  I support only games that are unique and show creativity on the part of the maker.  I don' t have a problem with the OP's soapbox.  I do think it is odd so many peeps did have a problem with it.  She talks intelligently and you guys boo and hiss.  You look like a bunch of bar stool rejects.


  • bnxbanditbnxbandit quezon cityPosts: 23Member

    Just how the hell is Path of Exile a wanna be MMORPG? Have you not forgotten what MMORPG means?

    Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

    It's exactly what it is. Now let me ask you this, is it a a role playing game? I'm hoping for a yes because it lets you take on a role depending on what you like much like other MMORPGs. Is it massive and let's you play with other people online? Also true. I just cannot see why would you say such a thing. Also, this isn't a bad year. It's a year where MMORPGs get a bit more different. It's called change.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I don't know both Archeage and TESO may be good, there's some promising ideas with them, the megaserver thing bothers me with TESO though, I don't like these dangled server setups, it failed with tsw and sto imo.

    I'm also looking forwards to the crafting / building stuff in ps2

    People I generally trust here are saying good things about aow.

    On the otherside

    Dfuw sounds broken, which is a shame.
    Wildstar looks like wow in space round 2
    Neverwinter looks like a cross between ddo and a fantasy swtor.
    I'm expecting gw2 to head down the wrong path and get more "wowy" as the expand it.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Every now and then, someone comes up with the idea that they can turn all of this disaffection and undirected rage into some sort of political force. Seems like a natural, for demagogues.

    But this is a forum—long on talktalk, short on action. Lots of mouth, not much money.

    It's not the forum's fault; most people don't come here to gather torches and pitchforks and march on Washington.

    Make a website, op, and pandhandle for donations. It's a natural for impassioned forum Rebel Leaders.

     

    Remember those warning flags for topics-to-avoid I discussed some time ago? Words like "True Hardcore" or "Real Gamer"? Add to the list: referring to yourself as "We".

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    ^^^ this, find some like minded people and people who know how to male games and make a kickstarter. Much more constructive than coming here and trying to whine every new mmo into oh "fantasy swg in tamriel" for example.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    Great... another forum prophet is all we need. And a purist to boot.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    I don't play any mmog atm.GW2 was my last disappointment.My wife plays a 10 year old mmog....DAOC.
  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    ^^^ this, find some like minded people and people who know how to male games and make a kickstarter. Much more constructive than coming here and trying to whine every new mmo into oh "fantasy swg in tamriel" for example.

    Unfortunately even though there is alot of whining on the state of mmo's kickstarter isnt an assurance of success. A pormising mmo Gloria Victis was on kickstarter and went unnoticed. Made very little, mmo portal did not write about it, gamers didn't talk about it. Fortunately the devs are still developing it.

    For me if a game is fun its good, I don't play ideas of innovation I play games. Its the same with my love for fantasy fiction. If I were to stop reading everything that did not innovate or was not wholey unique then I would have to stop reading altogether, which would be a horrible thing.

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