Originally posted by Siveria I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff. Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.
Khm, and that was FUN? Then obviously we are looking in games for very very different kind of fun.
+1
A game where you drop your gear when you die for everyone to loot means that your gear cant be very valueable, or be much of a big hassle to replace.
I prefer item focussed games. Like working for months at your new weapon or armor. Thats what I prefer to do.
Not read the entire thread but i need to say this.
NO
Infact modern mmos have dumbed down the death penalty too much, they need to start bringing in bigger penalties for dying.. After all getting killed should be a bad thing.
Originally posted by Siveria I'll be honest, with how much of a joke death penalties are today in most mmorpg's they might as well be removed since they are mostly a minor annoyence if nothing else. Worse death penaltiy I have seen in a game I played was in a korean mmorpg called redmoon, at higher levels you need 3-4 billion exp to level, and you earn this at about 200k exp per kill, you can 1 shot stuff. Now say your at 3.8 billion of 4 billion exp needed to level.. You die somehow, you'll most likely drop some or most of your shit, but the real pain? you lose HALF of the current exp you have earned, so in that death you just lost 1.6 billion exp. The item loss can sometimes be alot worse than the exp too, cuz anyone can loot whatever you dropped.
Khm, and that was FUN? Then obviously we are looking in games for very very different kind of fun.
+1
A game where you drop your gear when you die for everyone to loot means that your gear cant be very valueable, or be much of a big hassle to replace.
I prefer item focussed games. Like working for months at your new weapon or armor. Thats what I prefer to do.
Everquest had my favorite death system, when u died u dropped everything u had on you (On pvp servers i beleive the person who Pks you could loot the coins on you (you can bank you money) and i think one item in your inventory not equiped). any you lost some XP (dont beleive u lost XP on pvp death) however some classes had rezzes that returned a % of your XP you lost so wasnt to much of a big deal because it was overly difficult to find somone to do that quite often for free if you bring it to them and if u were nice you could give them a tip which happened regulary due to a good community.
The sweetness of victory cannot exist without an adversity to overcome.
Remove the death-penalty & you remove a painful but necessary element of the many things which lead to a sense of accomplishment, blandness would ensue without it.
A difficult boss is an adversity.
Death penalty is not.
You overcome a boss. Death penalty, you merely avoid.
Rez from other player = 5% more penalty than respawn
---------------------
What I really want from that: Teach players not to die so they stop ruining my gaming experience because they suck too much to make us succeed. Make them care.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
In Everquest 1, way back when, the death penalty was brutal. You'd lose a considerable amount of experience and could actually de-level, thus losing level based spells and level restricted gear.
A friend of mine got adventurous and went to an EQ1 zone right after leveling because he was a wizard and got the portal spell to travel their automatically. Because EQ1 devs were sadistic bastages, that zone had pockets of high level mobs mixed in with the more level appropriate monsters. This friend was out exploring the zone and ran into an island populated with spectres who were twice the level of the rest of the monsters in that zone (36ish compared to 16-18 normal mobs -- it was that Oasis area near Freeport in case you were wondering).
Well, long story not-so-short -- my friend died horribly, one shotted by a nasty group of spectres and (of course) was bound in Qeynos on the other side of the continent. He also de-leveled from 16 to 15, thereby making his level 16 portal spell to the Oasis no longer available. Oh, and in EQ1, your items remained on your body at point of death, so he was looking at walking through about 6-8 zones, "naked" to get back to Oasis, because in those days, you couldn't find someone willing to port a level 15 character, who was broke, out of the goodness of their heart.
Luckily, some actual kind soul in Oasis, who was a cleric resurrected my friend back to his body, he was able to loot his stuff, but had to remain in the area for an hour or so killing level appropriate stuff to get his level (and spells) back. Guess what? He never again got curious about new zones without first getting a couple bubbles of experience buffer.
Just an awesome story!
As many have said, MMOs are just to easy nowadays. I do not want to say harsh, but a death penalty should at least make a player stop and think, "how can I prevent that from happing again"?
I loved EQ's dealth penalty system. It was painful enough that you never wanted to die (instead of simply killing yourself to travel faster), but didn't give you a debuff. So you could immediatly get back in the action.
The combination of corpse runs & xp loss made it really painful to die, and I miss it sooo much. Right now I never feel in danger for my life in ANY mmo. And even if god forbid I did die (which almost never happens) the death penalties are so lax that I just laugh and move on.
Out of all the games in developemnet (that I am familiar with), Trials of Ascension has the right idea imo. A character should have an end, it is what measures achievement. 100 deaths = perma death. Too many players feel hitting max level is an aceivement, when without perma death, hitting max level is just a sum of time.
The fear of losing progression is a little silly. In most MMOs it is a race through content, just to sit around and complain about lack of endgame. With perma death, a player can strive to achieve as much as possible with a finite resource.
Take away need to level and insert the need to stay alive, and suddenly a game is filled with immersion, community, and a n exciting virtual world to play around in.
Originally posted by Vesavius Originally posted by ArclanOriginally posted by VesaviusI honestly had to check to see if this was a necroed thread from '04...
Necro'd threads are immediately locked and you get a stern warning from the MMORPG staff.
ok thanks buddy! With me being a new comer around here that was a valuable insight...
You missed the point in what I was saying I think.
Hehe no I got your point. Just took the opportunity to promulgate that fantastic MMORPG policy.
Was thinking today about great friends who helped me 14 years ago. I remember them and the times clearly. Friendship bonds were strong because you needed one another for a res or to find your corpse/gear. I grew, personally, from bonding with people from different cultures. Today, no one needs anyone; it's one big circle-jerk, wack-a-mole game with no consequences for anything. Doesn't matter if you never see the same person twice as their effect on your gameplay is trivial at best.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by VesaviusI honestly had to check to see if this was a necroed thread from '04...
Necro'd threads are immediately locked and you get a stern warning from the MMORPG staff.
ok thanks buddy! With me being a new comer around here that was a valuable insight...
You missed the point in what I was saying I think.
Hehe no I got your point. Just took the opportunity to promulgate that fantastic MMORPG policy.
Was thinking today about great friends who helped me 14 years ago. I remember them and the times clearly. Friendship bonds were strong because you needed one another for a res or to find your corpse/gear. I grew, personally, from bonding with people from different cultures. Today, no one needs anyone; it's one big circle-jerk, wack-a-mole game with no consequences for anything. Doesn't matter if you never see the same person twice as their effect on your gameplay is trivial at best.
It is sad that you need some game mechanics to help you make friends.
Shouldn't you be able to make friends just by chatting up people in guild chat? I don't play games to make friends. I can do that else where.
I used to defend death penalty but after playing Spellborn(R.I.P.) I changed my mind: WHy not a system like Spellborn in wihich players are rewarded for staying alive? Unless is perm-death most death penelty are just time sink.
I Haven't played one single MMo that used and improve Spellborn Idiea: You get better bonus as you fight and survive.
"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"
I used to defend death penalty but after playing Spellborn(R.I.P.) I changed my mind: WHy not a system like Spellborn in wihich players are rewarded for staying alive? Unless is perm-death most death penelty are just time sink.
I Haven't played one single MMo that used and improve Spellborn Idiea: You get better bonus as you fight and survive.
I mean it's the mechanic that made people addicted to Rock Band. More reward for continued success, you mess up, start all over again.
Games already don't have a death penalty. If you call taking 20 seconds to run back from a graveyard or something like that a death penalty, there is no hope for you.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Ya'll youngsters are spoiled rotten these days! Back in my day if you died you lost everything and even lost a good chunk of experience! Having to respawn and sometimes wait 10 minutes to recover is hardly a death penalty!
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
no. Without some sort of consequence, there isn't much fun IMO. It's that little bit of uncertainty which make MMOs worth playing. I admit some games get away with it and are fun, but I prefer it with.
Yeah remove death penalty so I can just brainless zerg into a room or something until all the stuff does, not caring my character dies at all. Yeah... sorry not happening. The death penalty has been getting TO WEAK rather then being an annoyance. Right now dieing really is no big deal anymore in games. It use to be you tried hard to not die which made the experience a lot more tense and entertaining.
Originally posted by Purutzil Yeah remove death penalty so I can just brainless zerg into a room or something until all the stuff does, not caring my character dies at all. Yeah... sorry not happening. The death penalty has been getting TO WEAK rather then being an annoyance. Right now dieing really is no big deal anymore in games. It use to be you tried hard to not die which made the experience a lot more tense and entertaining.
You really should play games where you can't beat any serious content by just rushing in and repeating the same failed strategies over and over. May I recommend World of Warcraft?
Originally posted by Purutzil Yeah remove death penalty so I can just brainless zerg into a room or something until all the stuff does, not caring my character dies at all. Yeah... sorry not happening. The death penalty has been getting TO WEAK rather then being an annoyance. Right now dieing really is no big deal anymore in games. It use to be you tried hard to not die which made the experience a lot more tense and entertaining.
What brain zerg? Bosses reset. You cannot zerg and win. You still have to overcome the challenge of kiling the boss, from scratch each time, if you want to proceed.
Cuz we all know WoW sets the standard for challenging, difficult content.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
+1
A game where you drop your gear when you die for everyone to loot means that your gear cant be very valueable, or be much of a big hassle to replace.
I prefer item focussed games. Like working for months at your new weapon or armor. Thats what I prefer to do.
Not read the entire thread but i need to say this.
NO
Infact modern mmos have dumbed down the death penalty too much, they need to start bringing in bigger penalties for dying.. After all getting killed should be a bad thing.
Everquest had my favorite death system, when u died u dropped everything u had on you (On pvp servers i beleive the person who Pks you could loot the coins on you (you can bank you money) and i think one item in your inventory not equiped). any you lost some XP (dont beleive u lost XP on pvp death) however some classes had rezzes that returned a % of your XP you lost so wasnt to much of a big deal because it was overly difficult to find somone to do that quite often for free if you bring it to them and if u were nice you could give them a tip which happened regulary due to a good community.
A difficult boss is an adversity.
Death penalty is not.
You overcome a boss. Death penalty, you merely avoid.
No..
The lack of risk is hurting MMO's alot..you should care if you die in an MMO.
Death should only give a penalty to XP.
With no max XP limit.
Delevelling possible.
0 absolute minimum
Rez from other player = 5% more penalty than respawn
---------------------
What I really want from that: Teach players not to die so they stop ruining my gaming experience because they suck too much to make us succeed. Make them care.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Just an awesome story!
As many have said, MMOs are just to easy nowadays. I do not want to say harsh, but a death penalty should at least make a player stop and think, "how can I prevent that from happing again"?
I loved EQ's dealth penalty system. It was painful enough that you never wanted to die (instead of simply killing yourself to travel faster), but didn't give you a debuff. So you could immediatly get back in the action.
The combination of corpse runs & xp loss made it really painful to die, and I miss it sooo much. Right now I never feel in danger for my life in ANY mmo. And even if god forbid I did die (which almost never happens) the death penalties are so lax that I just laugh and move on.
Out of all the games in developemnet (that I am familiar with), Trials of Ascension has the right idea imo. A character should have an end, it is what measures achievement. 100 deaths = perma death. Too many players feel hitting max level is an aceivement, when without perma death, hitting max level is just a sum of time.
The fear of losing progression is a little silly. In most MMOs it is a race through content, just to sit around and complain about lack of endgame. With perma death, a player can strive to achieve as much as possible with a finite resource.
Take away need to level and insert the need to stay alive, and suddenly a game is filled with immersion, community, and a n exciting virtual world to play around in.
People do care about wipes in MMOs. You miss all the drama, rage-quit, and name-calling?
You don't need much death penalty for people to care.
ok thanks buddy! With me being a new comer around here that was a valuable insight...
You missed the point in what I was saying I think.
Hehe no I got your point. Just took the opportunity to promulgate that fantastic MMORPG policy.
Was thinking today about great friends who helped me 14 years ago. I remember them and the times clearly. Friendship bonds were strong because you needed one another for a res or to find your corpse/gear. I grew, personally, from bonding with people from different cultures. Today, no one needs anyone; it's one big circle-jerk, wack-a-mole game with no consequences for anything. Doesn't matter if you never see the same person twice as their effect on your gameplay is trivial at best.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
It is sad that you need some game mechanics to help you make friends.
Shouldn't you be able to make friends just by chatting up people in guild chat? I don't play games to make friends. I can do that else where.
I used to defend death penalty but after playing Spellborn(R.I.P.) I changed my mind: WHy not a system like Spellborn in wihich players are rewarded for staying alive? Unless is perm-death most death penelty are just time sink.
I Haven't played one single MMo that used and improve Spellborn Idiea: You get better bonus as you fight and survive.
"you are like the world revenge on sarcasm, you know that?"
One of those great lines from The Secret World
I mean it's the mechanic that made people addicted to Rock Band. More reward for continued success, you mess up, start all over again.
a yo ho ho
I thought the death penalty got binned years ago. Now days you come back as a superman.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I self identify as a monkey.
You really should play games where you can't beat any serious content by just rushing in and repeating the same failed strategies over and over. May I recommend World of Warcraft?
What brain zerg? Bosses reset. You cannot zerg and win. You still have to overcome the challenge of kiling the boss, from scratch each time, if you want to proceed.
Cuz we all know WoW sets the standard for challenging, difficult content.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit